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Author Topic: IBM terminal 1390582  (Read 5035 times)

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Offline nathanscribe

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IBM terminal 1390582
« on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 04:30:28 »
An impulse buy... and I can't seem to find any info specific to this model.  I've read the IBM Wiki and in terms of connecting this to a modern (ie, PS/2 or USB) PC I'm guessing this (from the Wiki) applies:

Quote
Model M versions of the 122-key keyboards previously associated with the PC 3270 and the 3179 were now used for both the 5250 and 3270 style terminals. As a rule of thumb, 5250-style 122-keys can be identified by their use of an RJ-style connector, and by 5250-specific layout details, such as the Enter key having "Field Exit" written on it. 3270 terminals used a round 5-pin DIN plug different to that of the XT/AT connector.


I've also seen a thread or two about conversion of some terminal keyboards - presumably that's what will have to happen if I'm actually going to use this..?

Any more detailed info, or links to such (including what those keys would be used for on the original system) would be appreciated.

Also, I just noticed this and my 1391406 have what looks to be another part number in smaller figures.  Anybody know what that relates to?

Pics:








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Offline TacticalCoder

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 06:13:52 »
Damn...  I realize my avatar ain't very original (and you had yours first)!

Ah ah them terminal board, so funny with so many weird keycaps: I've got a 139.... too but I'm only using it for spare part and funny key caps as of now.

The key caps are a bit different on mine: your "play test" is "copy / play / test" on mine and I don't have all the "cmd" key caps: they're nearly all "PF1" / "PF2" / etc. keycaps, with a color or another symbol then written on the front.  I think it's a german terminal board I've got.

No idea as to how to make it work on my PCs that said : )
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Offline What is X?

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 06:16:48 »
Unlikely. It's probably not bi-directional.
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Offline DaemonRaccoon

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 06:32:12 »
The second number is probably the FRU (Field Replacement Unit) number.
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122-Key Model F 6110345 1985-03-01 | Model M SSK 1391472 1991-01-22 | Rosewill RK-9000 v1 | KBC Poker X | Filco FKBN87M/PWE2

Offline theferenc

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 08:15:31 »
Go find a post by Kishy, and check out the links in his sig. Most of the info you will need is there.
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline nathanscribe

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:11:25 »
Thanks chaps.

Quote from: kishy;358376
Very nice board, OP. Be sure to check out the links from my sig - although messy, lots of information is to be had. If you want to just jump right to using it, check out Soarer's converter.

Thanks.  I just spent the last hour or so reading all the info I could find about this - seems it was for use with a 3196 terminal, and it looks like it will be possible to convert it for use with PS/2, which is what I had in mind when wondering whether to buy.

Quote
Erm, no, it's AT. Granted, AT with a few disclaimers, but no less AT.

So presumably if I can convert it to PS/2 and plug it into my DOS machine, I can just use it as a regular keyboard layout, and then add functionality in software?
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:14:16 by nathanscribe »
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Offline theferenc

  • Posts: 1327
IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:37:05 »
Kishy will correct me if I'm wrong (please), but my understanding is that if you convert this to PS/2, it should operate the same as the 1397000 models do. All of the standard 101 keys work as you would expect (albeit not always where you would expect them), and the rest should send unique scan codes, allowing you to remap them in software.

Be aware that if you are using linux, there are some funny steps you have to hop through. For instance, I need to run the following script:

Code: [Select]
#! /bin/sh
#
setkeycodes 0x5a 190
#
# Function keys
#
setkeycodes 0x5b 191
setkeycodes 0x5c 192
setkeycodes 0x5d 193
setkeycodes 0x63 194
setkeycodes 0x64 195
setkeycodes 0x65 196
setkeycodes 0x66 197
setkeycodes 0x67 198
setkeycodes 0x68 199
setkeycodes 0x69 200
setkeycodes 0x6a 201
setkeycodes 0x6b 202
#
# Left block keys
#
setkeycodes 0x71 221
setkeycodes 0x76 222
setkeycodes 0x72 223
# L4 is Pause
setkeycodes 0x74 214
setkeycodes 0x6d 216
# L7 is PrtSc
setkeycodes 0x6f 218
setkeycodes 0x75 219
setkeycodes 0x6c 220
And then all of the extra keys are available for use in xmodmap. I have not needed to do this with windows. You will likely need to use different codes for yours. I can't currently find the website that gave me the necessary hints and clues that lead me to the above script, but that coupled with an xmodmap script allowed me to convert the layout to UNIX, plus have quite a few extra keys to play with. Definitely one of my favorite keyboards. One like yours with a converter is actually next on my list.
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline theferenc

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 16:57:40 »
Linux and the BSDs should actually support scancode set 3, honestly. And I know they can handle the "no break" situation fairly well, since I, um, forgot to send those on an adapter I was working on. Oops. But it worked there no problem, failed miserably in windows. But yeah, UNIX can handle it.

And thanks for the correction. It's hard to keep all of the older models straight in what they do and don't do. Especially since their behavior varies so extensively based on operating systems.
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline sethstorm

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 17:58:36 »
Quote from: theferenc;358699
Linux and the BSDs should actually support scancode set 3, honestly. And I know they can handle the "no break" situation fairly well, since I, um, forgot to send those on an adapter I was working on. Oops. But it worked there no problem, failed miserably in windows. But yeah, UNIX can handle it.

And thanks for the correction. It's hard to keep all of the older models straight in what they do and don't do. Especially since their behavior varies so extensively based on operating systems.

Unfortunately, they only seem to do so until you get past the bootloader.   If you know something I don't about that matter, I'd like to know.
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Offline theferenc

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 18:20:07 »
It's probably something akin to what I had to do to get my 122 key emulator up and running at full. By default, linux disables all the non-standard codes. Or rather, more specifically, the kernel receives them, but does not pass them along to X, as, by default, X doesn't know what to do with them.

On my system, I had to run the script I posted above to have them recognized by xmodmap. I actually have a full script that runs at boot that reassigns all of the codes my keyboard generates to known X mappings. It's mostly redundant, but it does what I need it to do. Plug in your terminal board, start hitting keys, and pay attention to the system log. That's how I found the missing codes on my system. Pop a script like above into your rc.local (or whatever your system uses), and you should be good to go.

I really wish I could find the website that gave me the information I needed to get this going. I'll check on my workstation in my office, see if I bookmarked it there.
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline JohnElliott

  • Posts: 109
IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 19:54:13 »
Recent versions of the Linux kernel (I believe 2.6.37+) have native support for set 3 terminal boards -- as I understand it, you add 'atkbd.terminal=1' to the kernel command line. Haven't tried it myself yet.
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Offline JohnElliott

  • Posts: 109
IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 03:55:44 »
Quote from: kishy;358802
As far as I'm concerned set 3 is a non-issue...the issue is the break codes, which are independent of the set 3 nonissue.

Windows can see all keystrokes, and if Windows can do it...anything can do it.

Does this Linux kernel feature support the break code fix?

As far as I can see, yes.
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Offline theferenc

  • Posts: 1327
IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 04:16:37 »
Linux doesn't really have an issue with missing break codes, no. As I said, I screwed up on a converter and wasn't actually sending them (called a dummy, rather than proper function), and in linux, this wasn't an issue.
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline ch_123

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IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 04:37:17 »
Oh dear, I really need to fix stuff in the wiki, just about everything in the paragraph quoted by the OP is wrong :P
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Offline poxeclipse

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Re: IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 11:34:04 »
Is this a model F or M ?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM terminal 1390582
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 11:36:37 »
It is an M.

Fs have metal back pans.
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