Author Topic: Dang... peroxide DOES burn (Read 52189 times)

litster · « **Reply #50 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 18:59:12 »

lopan and I are getting similar result. It is a perfect day to do this in Seattle as we don't get sun everyday. OxyClean has a lot of filler so it makes the water very muddy. But the solution still works. After a could of hours under the sun it is obviously a few shades lighter than before, especially viewed under direct sunlight. Under the shades the difference is not as obvious.

In the picture, the larger Zero key was not in the OxyClean solution, so it is the control (shouda used the Control key :-)). The V key and the 5 key were in the solution. They are obviously lighter.

I use a thin clear plastic box to keep the keys facing up.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #51 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:02:14 »

What is your mix ratio?

litster · « **Reply #52 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:04:04 »

That can of OxyClean, I used about 1/3 of it. It is actually about 10 years old. And you see all the water I used in the picture

LOL! I don't know what the ratio was! Probably way too much.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #53 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:10:57 »

Wow! Half pound of Oxy with a little water...must not be much more than paste! Of course the Oxy could possibly be weak as it may have lost some of its reaction ability. Yours must be much, much stronger than mine.

litster · « **Reply #54 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:23:33 »

Quote from: ripster;377067

These pics are making someone in Heaven so happy!

Who died?

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #55 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:25:21 »

Billy Mays

litster · « **Reply #56 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:26:25 »

Ah. May Billy rest in peace.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #57 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:32:12 »

I thought it was from a snowball.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #58 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:34:39 »

Heh heh.

Brutal.

audioave10 · « **Reply #59 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 19:51:13 »

I missed that story in the newspaper.

litster · « **Reply #60 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 20:09:25 »

Of course the mess was cleaned up using OxyClean!

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #61 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 20:11:14 »

Buh-BAM!

TexasFlood · « **Reply #62 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 20:29:15 »

Billy Mays, The Man, The Myth, The Legend, The Pitchman, the Shouter

litster · « **Reply #63 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 23:38:44 »

Input Nirvana, how did your yellow stuff turn out after a day in the sun?

xargos · « **Reply #64 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 23:54:40 »

What a thread this has turned into! Walk away from the computer for a day and who knows what will happen.

Quote from: input nirvana;376666

Xargos? Oh, you mean Stumpy? Ya, I think he's coming over for as a safety consultant with a bottle of Jack Daniels and a video camera.

Proper use of JD or other alcoholic beverages may help to lessen the pain in the event of a peroxide burn. It may also lead to crazy antics that require use of a video camera for later recollection.

Quote from: litster;377209

Input Nirvana, how did your yellow stuff turn out after a day in the sun?

In all seriousness, though, I'm curious about this myself. The keys came out pretty well as expected, but the casing of the OmniKey 101 is pretty yellowed too. If a good soak with OxiClean in water exposed to UV works, that will make dealing with the casing easier.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #65 on:** Sat, 09 July 2011, 23:55:59 »

Good, I left everything in the juice outside. I'll check it in the morning, maybe rinse it off to get a good look. If there is any yellow left on some of the worst keys, maybe I'll make another poison dip. Depends on sun also. I think the sun affects it a lot. I'd say it's at 90-95%. I'm pretty pleased considering I didn't go through all the hoops with all the various ingredients and hassles. All I can say now is that's it'r a no-brainer. I'll do the other 2 keyboards without question...there is no downside. I don't know if I needed more sun, more Oxy, or more time to clean up about 15 of the most yellowed keys. I'll find out tomorrow. I'm sorry I waited so long to do this!

Don't make it more complicated than you need:
-Oxy-Clean (I used a mix 10 times stronger than recommended)
-water
-sun (it was working while it was overcast)
-I don't know if temperature affects the reaction.

What is your guys story?

P.S.- Hi Stumpy! Glad you're back and ok! lol

litster · « **Reply #66 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:03:04 »

Just like you, I am leaving mine out over night, and it is going to get some more sun beginning at 5:22am. I plan on leaving it out the whole day tomorrow. Forecast tomorrow is sunny with 100% chance of OxyClean!

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #67 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:09:42 »

I don't know enough about the process to know if the chemicals are used up. I guess I could throw a black sock and see if it turns white. If the last few keys don't un-yellow all the way in a couple hours in the sun, I'll add a bit more Oxy and call it good. No matter what, this has already been a success.

xargos · « **Reply #68 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:09:45 »

Quote from: input nirvana;377217

Don't make it more complicated than you need:
-Oxy-Clean
-water
-sun (it was working while it was overcast)
-I don't know if temperature affects the reaction.

What is your guys story?

I used the peroxide and OxiClean mixture under florescent black lights (for a UV light source) to good effect.

From everything I've read regarding Retr0Bright, UV light accelerates the reaction and adding heat is not necessary. In fact, adding heat mostly increases the likelihood of causing the plastic to warp. This should also hold true for the water and OxyClean method since it works based on the same chemical reaction.

Now I just need something big enough to hold the keyboard casing in so I can treat it.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #69 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:15:45 »

Quote from: xargos;377225

I used the peroxide and OxiClean mixture under florescent black lights (for a UV light source) to good effect.

From everything I've read regarding Retr0Bright, UV light accelerates the reaction and adding heat is not necessary. In fact, adding heat mostly increases the likelihood of causing the plastic to warp. This should also hold true for the water and OxyClean method since it works based on the same chemical reaction.

Now I just need something big enough to hold the keyboard casing in so I can treat it.

Dollar store, Target, Walmart or similar for clear plastic storage containers with lids. You can use these for stuff later. 12"x18"x8" tall (or taller) about $5. Bins twice that size about $9.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #70 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:31:03 »

I'm reporting you for saying "flowering pinguicala"

The one thing that concerned me was the "mottling effect" you had.

litster · « **Reply #71 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:34:46 »

Absolutely the paste is best for large objects. liquid may be easier with smaller objects like keycaps.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #72 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 00:41:24 »

Your pics of that SGI is what made the impression on me. Interesting observation about the paste.

Another reason I wanted to do the liquid method, is that there are less steps, less to do, less material, just an overall more simple process. If it didn't work well enough, I can always ramp up to the paste.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #73 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 11:44:42 »

Nothing seems to have happened overnight.
You can see some of the keycaps are yellow in comparison to the others. It's relative, as they were more yellow than the others before the process. In the sun now, stir every 20 mins, and we'll see how it turns out in a couple more hours. Maybe more oxy if needed. But I'm still impressed and happy with the results.

Keeping the process simple.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20354[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20353[/ATTACH]

I used a small redwood shim to stir/mix/position. It's not "red"wood anymore. maybe that is why the water is so dirty. Maybe weakened the solution as well.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #74 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 17:41:48 »

UPDATE:

Case is absolutely new. Makes a 1 year old case I have actually look 1 year ancient.

Keys have a few holdouts so I put them in a new solution about 16 times stronger than recommended in a 20 oz. clear bottle. They can sit there for as long as it takes (days). Today only a couple hours of direct sun, and mostly overcast. If the keys come out as good as the case, I will consider this an absolute success. I've used about 40% of the 6 pounds of generic oxy since I have a big tub for the cases.

I've put a second set of keys in a 32 oz. bottle, and another full scoop of oxy in the tub to freshen it up and popped in another case.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #75 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 17:50:46 »

Can't wait to see some pics. I would assume there was some sediment over time, probably mostly filler, unless you saturated the solution, not sure how much it would take to do that.

litster · « **Reply #76 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 20:07:20 »

Almost end of day of day 2. Here is another picture of the current result. The wide keys 0 (zero) and Ctrl were never in the solution, and are the controls. W, P, C, F14, F16 were in the solution for over 24 hours straight. W, P, C are obviously much lighter than the yellow zero key. The grey keys' result is not as obvious, but you can tell F14 and F16 are both losing their previous yellow tint, comparing to the Ctrl key.

The picture below was taken right after I cleaned the keys and put them on to a Filco. WB may not be right on that picture (taken with an iphone), but you can see the C and X keys were lighter for some reason at that time. Comparing to the new picture, W and P have almost caught up with C.

This has been a success. I will keep them in the solution for another day to see how much lighter can they get, and if other keys can be at the same color as the C and X keys.

The Solutor · « **Reply #77 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 20:19:12 »

Quote

This has been a success. I will keep them in the solution for another day

Now you know why I'm called the solutor

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #78 on:** Sun, 10 July 2011, 20:52:07 »

Litster,

Seems that you are getting virtually the same results with a fairly similar set of processes as I am. So I guess that would make us consistent! Another day, hopefully with more than 3 hours of direct sun will be the final testament for me.

I'm so pleased, that I'm going to disassemble the remaining 2 white Kinesis Contoureds I have for sale, and brighten them up. Not that I will make more money or sell them easier, but I believe it will make the new owners happier. Plus, I have over 3 pounds of oxy left over. I'll see if I can make a paste tomorrow to see how it compares (this has been interesting) but I gave my blender away last fall

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #79 on:** Mon, 11 July 2011, 19:32:05 »

Damn foggy beach days! I can see the sun almost all around me, but I live on a peninsula, so I'm often under a fog bank. No progress today.

I'm going to buy glycerin and xanthan gum tonight so I can play with the paste, Might as well learn something while I'm at this. How to mix without blender?

Picture outside with iPhone and the sun popping in and out of fog was tough, but you can tell the bottom of the case is pretty yellow (yes, that's yellow). The top has got to be virtually original. The photos don't quite capture how good it came out. It's dramatic.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20403[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20404[/ATTACH]

litster · « **Reply #80 on:** Tue, 12 July 2011, 02:24:53 »

Got the Wyse keys out of the solution this evening. Washed and dried them. Here they are on the same white Filco as previously, with added modifiers form a second set of Wyse keycaps that are thinner. You can't really tell that X and C keys are lighter than others. All the keys are about the same shade.

Now I am out of yellow keys to OxyClean!

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #81 on:** Tue, 12 July 2011, 10:57:33 »

The picture makes it look new. So you think you are at 95% or better at this point?

Did your solution work even without sunlight? I know your solution was probably much stronger than mine (so far, mine at about 16x recommended). I don't notice any change without sun.

litster · « **Reply #82 on:** Tue, 12 July 2011, 11:43:34 »

I think I am done. 95%+. I don't know if the solution works without sunlight. Next time the experiment would be to do the exact same thing but do it indoor.

Also, I just realized this thread is under off topic. We should move the content back to the wiki thread so n00bs can find this later

Haters gotta hate, teachers gotta teach! I learned something this pass weekend!

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #83 on:** Wed, 13 July 2011, 23:41:37 »

UPDATE:
I finally had some sun today for about 3+ hours. I've taken the 2 sets of keycaps out of the jar containers and have some results and possible cautions to report.

Both sets of keycaps are white (off white) Kinesis Contour keycaps with 8 medium-blue home row keycaps. Set 1 is decal, set 2 is doubleshots.

Keycaps results:
There are some keycaps that appear new original, and there are keycaps that still have very little yellow. It's 90% or better.
Keycap set 1-(10x solution 1 day, 16x solution 3 days) started a medium yellow. It lightened the 8 dark keycaps slightly.
Keycap set 2-(16x solution 3 days) started a very heavy yellow. It lightened the 8 dark keycaps significantly. Now they are powder blue.
Both sets of keycaps, even though started out very, very different shades, appear the same now.

Initially I was surprised and disappointed to see the 8 home row keycaps significantly lighter, but once I put them on, I like them considerably better, they're not old-school industrial retro-blue anymore. Plus, they are the doubleshots, which I think are overrated, but I'm keeping anyhow. So fortunately, no downside. But that is a BIG caution if you are dealing with some reto-thing you might be restoring...having the color leach out or get bleached could possibly ruin your day.

I don't think the OxyClean was very powerful when I dumped it out after 3 days. My hands aren't dried out like when I mixed it. I'm thinking the best choice is to use a stronger solution in bright light for a shorter period of time, rather than let them sit for days on end. My solution was just OxyClean and water. I didn't use hydrogen peroxide (instead of water) which I think is what makes the solution very toxic and super-strong.

I will wait until our local foggy season is over before I do anything else. No sense fighting the fog for days. I'm planning on popping all the keys in solution again for half a day+ in full sun for a final, yellow-B-gone, 95%+ or better finish. I'll also wait to do the glycerin and xanthan gum paste at that time as well.

I'll post a couple pics tomorrow of some comparison results.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 14 July 2011, 14:56:21 »

Keycaps and duration in OxyClean. The lightest keycap seems the most evenly colored since it is a doubleshot and there is no clear surround like on a decal. The other keycap is blotchy (I first thought it was warped), I'd rather have it lighter, I'll work on that later.

EDIT--I've just noted that REVENGE has either retrobrited or used denture tabs on doubleshot Kinesis Contoured keycaps and has the same lightening of the blue as I have here. So it's not necessarily the exact method I used that may be "at fault". It may just be a function of the plastics used.

Oxy 4 days, no oxy, oxy 3 days (doubleshot keycap)

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20811[/ATTACH]

No oxy, oxy 4 days, oxy 3 days (doubleshop keycap)

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20812[/ATTACH]

The keycaps in oxy 3 days were in a 20oz jar. (doubleshots)
The keycaps in oxy 4 days were in a 32oz jar.
They were both about 16x recommended solution.

(maybe should retake photos so they are the same line up)

These are the doubleshot keycaps at 90% or better. They WERE the same exact color as the case, as though the whole keyboard was dipped in yellow (no before pic). Note the bright blue graphic on the front of the left arrow keycap, and the black DVORAK legends, these did not change. The light blue I think is nicer (than the darker and dated industrial color), either with a white or black case.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20829[/ATTACH]

Close up of the doubleshots and original yellowed case with foggy lighting/and black case with sunny lighting (you can see a tiny bit of yellow still or maybe that's just off-white).
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20832[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20853[/ATTACH]

EDIT--The lightest "A" keycap (the right keycap in the first 2 pics, and only A in the bottom pics) is the same keycap in all pics. The 2 close ups make it not look blue at all.

Also, doubleshots seem overrated to me, at least with these Kinesis Contoured keycaps are concerned.

Oqsy · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 14 July 2011, 23:17:31 »

Thanks for sharing your results, guys.

I've tried two soaks for my pee-stained Northgate caps this week. Both with Oxy saturated to the point that it would take no more. The first soak was without peroxide, in 104 deg sun for 3 hours, 20% improvement. Did the same again (midday sun 3 hrs)the next day with a cup of peroxide added, no noticeable change, maybe another 5%(so less effect than just Oxy!). I suspect my 10 yr old tub of Oxy is to blame for my slow progress. I would have left the 2nd soak out longer, but I was paranoid about overdoing the mix by adding peroxide. I might try again this weekend with a new tub of OxyClean. Are there possible tapwater additives that could inhibit the reaction?

I mix the Oxy in a bottle with tapwater, filling the bottle 50% with Oxy powder, then topping with tapwater and shaking it like hell until it won't dissolve any more and the Oxy sediment stays put no matter how much I shake it. Then i pour off the liquid onto the keycaps, and repeat until they're covered, only stopping to add more powder when i cant see much sediment in the bottom of the bottle.

I've had great luck with the "standard" recipe before on Cherry caps, but these doubleshot Northgate caps are a real pain!

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 14 July 2011, 23:25:21 »

HOLY ****!!!! There will be an Oxy shortage if you aren't stopped! The keys are ok? What color are they? Are you sure the sun makes a difference? I ask because Oxy used as directed says nothing about sunlight to brighten your clothes or take stains out of wood, blah blah blah, and the recommended mixes are almost nothing compared to your mud-mix....

I've got bleached keycaps...(see my post pics above)

Peroxide is a different story.

Oqsy · « **Reply #87 on:** Fri, 15 July 2011, 00:33:50 »

Not bleached, still very yellow. Only 20-25% improvement in color. As I said, my tub is a decade old and likely worthless.

The snakeskin texture was a fear when adding the peroxide for round two, but that soak made even less difference.

Oqsy has broke Oxy.

Also, I wore thick shoulder gloves and goggles

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #88 on:** Fri, 15 July 2011, 00:51:35 »

Weird. Not consistent with our results it sounds like. I tried to give as much info as possible without making this any more of a hassle than it already is. Hence no "before" pics, but I have enough to compare. As you can see, I had some yellow ****. Seriously yeller. I wonder if oxy can go bad? I wouldn't think so. Peroxide will of course. You and litster used WAY stronger mixes than me, and I sucked half the blue out of those keycaps I show, and lightened the blue portion/legends on the other keys (doubleshots). Good thing I like the color better now. But if I get my hands on more doubleshots, I'll do it differently. It didn't affect the blue decal legends on the non-doubleshots.

Don't misunderstand, still happy with everything.

In the end, I'm gonna sandblast non-doubleshots and have NO legends.

Oqsy · « **Reply #89 on:** Fri, 15 July 2011, 00:58:42 »

Just read the FAQ. Mine was "clumpy" and likely comprmised. I will try again with a new batch.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #90 on:** Fri, 15 July 2011, 01:05:51 »

Just say "NO" to clumpy....

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20883[/ATTACH]

REVENGE · « **Reply #91 on:** Fri, 15 July 2011, 21:15:22 »

Holdon a second, clarify what you mean by "oxy": hydrogen peroxide, or the catalyst compound in "oxy" detergents and cleaners? I don't think you should be saturating your solution with the catalyst.

Oqsy · « **Reply #92 on:** Fri, 15 July 2011, 23:48:15 »

OxiClean is being used in this method without peroxide (i did a test on a second soak with a cup of peroxide). Illster and InputNirvana were trying soaks with greater than suggested concentrations to see if OxiClean soaks alone could be substituted. I took it a step beyond by maxing the level of OxiClean in the solution. They have proven that this method DOES lighten yellowed (or blue) keys. I have proven nothing besides my 10yr old tub with clumps was much less potent.

If the desired results are obtained without using high concentrations of H2O2, this could well be a simpler, and possibly safer, method.

Yes, in the "traditional" retr0brite recipe, TAED(Oxi) is the catalyst for UV/Oxidation by peroxide on the yellowed caps, freeing the layer of Bromine and bonding it to the oxygen available in the solution. This method works, and quite well.

However, if the detergents plus TAED in Oxi can do the job alone, this method might be preferable to those that are skittish about the mix that uses peroxide. I certainly am interested in the possibilty, even if the peroxide mix is more efficient.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #93 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 02:04:59 »

I'm starting to think the OxyClean gets used up or reacted out the same as peroxide does. I even use my hands to stir the old barch and there's no skin drying like when I first made it and just a few drops got on my hands. That leads me to believe that the solution is less effective with time and/or sun. I don't have a good idea about how much effect the sun has on the process. My next test will be OxyClean at night, check color change in the morning. This test may happen in a week.

So far, reviewing everything after the fact, I've determined this:
1-using Oxy Clean at 10x recommended strength and sun, worked in one day 95% or better on a medium yellowed case.
2-using Oxy Clean at 16x recommended strength and inconsistent sun worked in one or two days 90% or better on medium and heavily yellowed keys. Pulled color from dark plastic which is not desirable. Keys were in jar and had to be shaken to rotate keys to get light exposure.
3-Oxy gets weak after a day or two either from time, usage, and/or sun.
4-I believe sun plays a big role, but not sure yet. Oxy works with laundry inside a washing machine. Pretty dark in there.

REVENGE · « **Reply #94 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 06:13:10 »

Quote from: input nirvana;381303

I'm starting to think the OxyClean gets used up or reacted out the same as peroxide does. I even use my hands to stir the old barch and there's no skin drying like when I first made it and just a few drops got on my hands. That leads me to believe that the solution is less effective with time and/or sun. I don't have a good idea about how much effect the sun has on the process. My next test will be a tub of Oxy at night, check color change in the morning (after 10 hours) then put in sun that day and check color. This test may happen in a week.

So far, reviewing everything after the fact, I've determined this:
1-using Oxy Clean at 10x recommended strength and sun, worked in one day 95% or better on a medium yellowed case.
2-using Oxy Clean at 16x recommended strength and inconsistent sun worked in one or two days 90% or better on medium and heavily yellowed keys. Pulled color from dark plastic which is not desirable. Keys were in jar and had to be shaken to rotate keys to get light exposure.
3-Oxy gets weak after a day or two either from time, usage, and/or sun.
4-I believe sun plays a big role, but not sure yet. Oxy works with laundry inside a washing machine. Pretty dark in there.

I don't have access to a tub of OxyClean at the moment, so can you tell me what the ingredients are? I know for a fact that some denture tabs provide both the catalyst and release hydrogen peroxide once they dissolve in solution.

The Solutor · « **Reply #95 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 06:34:40 »

Quote from: REVENGE;381343

I don't have access to a tub of OxyClean at the moment, so can you tell me what the ingredients are? I know for a fact that some denture tabs provide both the catalyst and release hydrogen peroxide once they dissolve in solution.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19644-Dang...-peroxide-DOES-burn/page2

REVENGE · « **Reply #96 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 07:23:35 »

Quote from: The Solutor;381348

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19644-Dang...-peroxide-DOES-burn/page2

Oh I see.

alaricljs · « **Reply #97 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 09:33:39 »

Hydrogen Peroxide decomposes into water and oxygen on it's own. OxiClean is Sodium Percarbonate, which is Hydrogen Peroxide and Sodium Carbonate.

Kept dry OxiClean will be stable for a very long time. However no one stores it in glass jars so it is never kept dry. If it's clumpy it is definitely not dry. Water will decompose the Sodium Percarbonate into the component peroxide and Sodium Carbonate... and since peroxide decomposes into water and oxygen, it's a cascading reaction that destroys the entire batch of Oxiclean given enough time and an environment (like a basement) that doesn't encourage evaporation of the water.

Oh yeah, so what I didn't mention is YES, any hydrogen peroxide bearing solution will degrade over time, the warmer it is the faster it will happen.

alaricljs · « **Reply #98 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 09:49:57 »

Google IS where I got that info... but it would seem a lot of people are mistaken about what's in OxiClean since the MSDS says differently...

The Solutor · « **Reply #99 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 10:06:20 »

Quote from: ripster;381397

Oxyclean is chemically more complex than what The Solutor posted.

It's a catalyst.

Rtrobrite guys found something that works, or to say better, they imported something used since ages in the pc world, this doesn't mean they are chemicals, not they understood how it works.

Back to you,you should google a bit for "catalyst" to understand that hydrogen peroxide, Sodium perborate or it's environmental friendly cousin sodium percarbonate have nothing to do with catalysts, although minimal quantities some of them could be present in the oxyclean formula to improve its performances.

News:

Author Topic: Dang... peroxide DOES burn (Read 52189 times)