Author Topic: [Got an awesome price quote! See post 230] Aluminum poker cases (Read 43966 times)

oneproduct · « **on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 20:43:20 »

Got a price quote today, check out post #230 here: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28132-VIDEO-and-PICS-Aluminum-poker-cases&p=547909&viewfull=1#post547909

---------------------------

EDIT: added pictures over here http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28132-Interest-check-Poker-aluminum-or-stainless-steel-cases&p=540275&viewfull=1#post540275

It weighs 1 pound, 14 ounces without the keyboard inside it.

[video=youtube;CNSjdYfjhbk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNSjdYfjhbk[/video][video=youtube;47p43RY9rNc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47p43RY9rNc[/video]

Steel is no longer an option unfortunately.

---------------------

This is a follow up to this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?27565-feedback-Poker-metal-case-construction
It would probably be a good idea to read through that quick to get an idea of what this is about if you don't already know.

I do not have an actual prototype to show you as I can't pay to just make one then pay to make X more later without having to pay setup fees twice. What they do instead is they have something called a plotter which basically makes a 3D imitation of it in paper to make sure that everything fits alright and if that paper prototype is okay then I tell them how many I want and they'll put it into production. They'll be making this paper prototype sometime next week and assuming it's alright, they give me some price quotes.

I'm not sure exactly what the price is yet, but since I won't have an actual prototype to show I imagine nobody would want to pay up front, so I'm going to be paying for it all myself and then worrying about selling them once they are made. Because of this, I don't want to buy too many, so I mostly just need to figure out a ballpark for how many people are interested. The more orders there are, the cheaper things will be of course.

If you are interested in one of these, please POST here (don't PM me) saying how many you would want, whether you want it in aluminum or stainless steel, and maybe something like the highest price you would actually be interested in following through with the order is.

So for example, if you were interested in one in aluminum but only if it was less than $100, then just post:

1x aluminum
$100 max

So if you posted that and then the actual price came out to be $115, I wouldn't count your interest when figuring out how many I want to buy. I honestly don't know what the cost is going to be though, I'm thinking anywhere between $50 and $125. The materials are cheap, but it's basically the labor we are paying for. If they are much higher or much lower than what I expected or if there is anything significantly odd with how the case will turn out, then I'll come back and post some info again before I make any decisions. I won't use your highest price to try to con the most money out of you possible. I pretty much plan to just charge what the actual cost comes out to.

The metal will be 3/16" thick. Note that if you want it in stainless steel that it will be much heavier than aluminum (which may or may not be a good thing based on your personal opinion). This is the basic blueprints which I gave to them where the plan was to have the PCB rest almost directly against the bottom of the metal case instead of having the PCB sit on a few cylinders that accept the screws like the normal case does. This would reduce PCB flex that some people complain about with the poker. To do this though, several insets would have to have been cut into the metal itself which apparently wouldn't be that easy with what they have available (not a CNC machine), but what the person I had talked with came up with instead is that there would be a layer of plastic between the PCB and the bottom of the case where these insets would be cut in and holes for the screws tapped. So it would be PCB on top of some plastic on top of the metal case.

The walls of the case would come up to the bottom lip of the keycaps themselves (for those who didn't like the exposed sides of the case that Vortex was showing off). There will NOT be a hole cut out to access the DIP switches. The reason for this is that most people only need to set the dip switches once and then will never touch them again so it's nicer and easier to just have a smooth metal bottom. I don't think there's much else to say, the case is basically just a metal box without a top, but if you have any questions feel free to ask them. It may also be good to read up on the original thread.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42490[/ATTACH]

This is the company that will be making it just in case anybody is curious: http://www.albertdavidson.com/english.html
My friend is the son of the guy who owns and runs the company.

demik · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 20:46:12 »

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
100-125

tsangan · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 20:55:33 »

Quote from: demik;533542

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
100-125

Same thing

oneproduct · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:01:32 »

Quote from: demik;533542

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
100-125

Ah, whoops. Maybe I need to add something in my instructions. Did you mean you would be interested in one of each, or just one or the other?

demik · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:03:48 »

one of each

RColinTaylor · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:05:49 »

Quote from: demik;533542

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
100-125

It would push me to buy a poker; in4 what they said.

oneproduct · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:07:57 »

Oh, by the way demik, how thick are the walls of imsto's case?

demik · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:08:49 »

no idea, i haven't gotten my hands on a caliper and my tools are at work

whiskerBox · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:10:09 »

I am interested, but I am having trouble conceptualizing what this will look like?!?

Anyways I guess I would be interested in a steel one 75-100 hopefully lower lol

lightsout714 · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:15:42 »

I am interested in an aluminum one. Would be great if it was under $80

I have a question though. What are you going to do with the seems? It looks like the sides will be bent up. Will they be welded? It seems like it will be hard to get them perfect if the plan is just to bend them and not join the edges.

reaper · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:25:03 »

Quote from: lightsout714;533562

I have a question though. What are you going to do with the seems? It looks like the sides will be bent up. Will they be welded? It seems like it will be hard to get them perfect if the plan is just to bend them and not join the edges.

^ This. Also will it be anodized and what about the choice of colors? Please forgive me if it was already mentioned in the OP but I didn't see it. And you mentioned layers of plastic between PCB and the case, what kind of plastic and will it reduce flex. Sorry so many questions. lol

Anyway, I'd be interested in an aluminum one, $100 max.

lightsout714 · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:40:26 »

Quote from: reaper;533568

^ This. Also will it be anodized and what about the choice of colors? Please forgive me if it was already mentioned in the OP but I didn't see it. And you mentioned layers of plastic between PCB and the case, what kind of plastic and will it reduce flex. Sorry so many questions. lol

Anyway, I'm interested in an aluminum one, $100 max.

I asked before reaper about the anodizing and the answer was no that place doesn't do it.

oneproduct · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:41:59 »

Yes, the corners will be folded up, welded together and then "polished" (think of maybe like sanding it smooth, but for metal?) which will make it look smooth, as if it were one continuous piece of metal.

lightsout714 · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:45:37 »

Ok great. That sounds good. I'm hoping the price is affordable. I know the labor isn't cheap.

cactux · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:48:58 »

Could you post the 3d drawing (snapshots)? What colors do you have in mind?

reaper · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:49:37 »

Quote from: lightsout714;533579

I asked before reaper about the anodizing and the answer was no that place doesn't do it.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. =)

ekw808 · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:58:20 »

no love for the race =(

boost · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 21:59:05 »

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
100-125

Sent from a phone...

lightsout714 · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:02:58 »

Quote from: reaper;533590

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. =)

Hopefully the OP will clarify. BUt last I heard it was just silver or natural metal.

demik · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:03:42 »

you can always just find a place that will do it for you

oneproduct · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:11:23 »

Quote from: cactux;533588

Could you post the 3d drawing (snapshots)? What colors do you have in mind?

I don't have anything yet, but maybe I can try to get some from them in the next few days. They'll be off for the weekend.

There won't be any coloring, it will just be the color of the metal itself. So silver.

Quote from: boost;533595

1x aluminum
$75-100

1x stainless steel
100-125

lol, seems like demik set a standard that nobody is willing to break. Aluminum is actually more expensive than steel, so it should be more like the opposite way around too heh.

lightsout714 · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:14:47 »

Quote from: demik;533599

you can always just find a place that will do it for you

Very true.

Quote from: oneproduct;533606

I don't have anything yet, but maybe I can try to get some from them in the next few days. They'll be off for the weekend.

There won't be any coloring, it will just be the color of the metal itself. So silver.

lol, seems like demik set a standard that nobody is willing to break. Aluminum is actually more expensive than steel, so it should be more like the opposite way around too heh.

Ok hows this. As cheap as possible. I will probably go with whatever is cheaper. I really need to see one though before I lay down cash.

RColinTaylor · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:15:42 »

I will say this about the coloring: If you use an automotive paint/primer that is meant for rims then it should both stick appropriately and look rather nice. It comes in a spray-can most of the time and is fairly easy to apply if you take the time and do 3-5 coats.

Also, I really hope this happens. I have been wanting a poker for awhile and if I get an aluminium or steel case for one I will for sure buy one in April.

demik · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:21:41 »

going to give a try with my spray gun + compressor

oneproduct · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:24:03 »

Quote

Ok hows this. As cheap as possible. I will probably go with whatever is cheaper. I really need to see one though before I lay down cash.

Right, people aren't willing to put down any cash up front which is why I was trying to go for this route. I can't show one unless I pay setup costs, but then if I did that I'd have to pay setup costs again when I actual get orders and that would just make them more expensive. Think of SP's price brackets in our group buys: buying 100 keys two times is much more expensive than buying 200 keys in one shot because of setup fees.

So I need to know about how many people are interested and about how much they are willing to pay at most because I'm going to be putting down several thousand dollars of my own money to pay for them up front and then worry about selling them. Obviously if the quality is not good I know I wouldn't be able to sell any so I wouldn't buy any, so that won't be a problem. Assuming it is good though I need to know how many I can safely order without ending up with a bunch of leftover metal cases.

I'll try to get some extra pictures and information as they become available though.

lightsout714 · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:29:21 »

Quote from: oneproduct;533617

Right, people aren't willing to put down any cash up front which is why I was trying to go for this route. I can't show one unless I pay setup costs, but then if I did that I'd have to pay setup costs again when I actual get orders and that would just make them more expensive. Think of SP's price brackets in our group buys: buying 100 keys two times is much more expensive than buying 200 keys in one shot because of setup fees.

So I need to know about how many people are interested and about how much they are willing to pay at most because I'm going to be putting down several thousand dollars of my own money to pay for them up front and then worry about selling them. Obviously if the quality is not good I know I wouldn't be able to sell any so I wouldn't buy any, so that won't be a problem. Assuming it is good though I need to know how many I can safely order without ending up with a bunch of leftover metal cases.

I'll try to get some extra pictures and information as they become available though.

Sorry if I came off rude. This is totally cool what you are doing and I understand you are taking a big risk here. There is a pretty large demand for these so if they turn out good I think you will do ok.

oneproduct · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:37:28 »

Quote from: demik;533555

no idea, i haven't gotten my hands on a caliper and my tools are at work

An estimate with a ruler would be fine. And also perhaps some personal comments as to if you think 3/16" would be too thick or such after you do. I don't have the privilege of judging first hand.

jonnybastard · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:43:35 »

I'd be keen for 1 of each, not too phased on price but less than $100 would be good. Powdercoating may be a better option than paint too for people that want to get them coloured, it's also cheap to have done.

oneproduct · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:59:55 »

Quote from: jonnybastard;533637

I'd be keen for 1 of each, not too phased on price but less than $100 would be good. Powdercoating may be a better option than paint too for people that want to get them coloured, it's also cheap to have done.

I'll be charging pretty much what the actual cost ends up being. I don't expect it could be much higher than $100 but it could be much lower for all I know. Still, it's good to see that people are willing to pay a little towards the higher end of my guesstimate spectrum in case costs do end up landing there. I've only talked to the production planner so far. There's a separate guy who does estimates, but I'll see if I can get a ballpark figure earlier.

In general though, if anybody is phased by the ~$100 that other people are putting out there don't be shy. If you're only in for one if it's like $50ish then just say so, and if it isn't I just won't get that extra one for you if it ends up being much more.

Kisakuku · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 00:01:05 »

1x aluminum

1x stainless steel

DanGWanG · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 00:11:47 »

Quote from: Kisakuku;533696

1x aluminum

1x stainless steel

Ditto.

morgofborg · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 01:05:17 »

In for 1 stainless. Pretty much anything under $150 and I'm good.

mkawa · « **Reply #32 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 02:15:26 »

i don't really buy this design as-is, but the way to do this is to order a few prototypes at a time until you have a design that both works and that they can manufacture. you amortize this development cost by charging more for each finished unit than is charged by the manufacturer #business101

duncan · « **Reply #33 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 04:48:44 »

Quote from: mkawa;533755

i don't really buy this design as-is, but the way to do this is to order a few prototypes at a time until you have a design that both works and that they can manufacture. you amortize this development cost by charging more for each finished unit than is charged by the manufacturer #business101

Cool start showing the prototypes you have made. Or is it that you haven't done anything like that and are just trying to bring down the person actually doing something about their ideas.

When you get to business 201 you'll learn "Talk is cheap. Do something!" is another basic rule of life.

EDIT
Actually I have a better idea. You fund the multiple prototypes and oneproduct gets them made up. Then when you have the final idea see how much your amortising of multiple set up costs works over multiple prototype as far as the final version and if work out over $100 you subsidise the process to produce a version at the $100 that the market research shows so far the buyer will bear. Hows that for business risk basics?

oneproduct · « **Reply #34 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 05:52:24 »

Quote from: mkawa;533755

i don't really buy this design as-is, but the way to do this is to order a few prototypes at a time until you have a design that both works and that they can manufacture. you amortize this development cost by charging more for each finished unit than is charged by the manufacturer #business101

Yea, I had thought about that, but a few things that kind of sway me away:
1. The setup fee represents a substantial part of the process, so iterating through prototypes that have to actually be manufactured isn't so great. My friend said that at around 60 cases the cost increase becomes about linear, so that is somewhat indicative of the impact of setup fees. I don't expect to have more than around 30 orders.
2. I wanted to keep the cost as low as possible because I don't really want to end up near the... $170 (?) that imsto's cases went for.
3. Even if there are some minor problems with the design people will still probably like it anyways just because it's a metal case and we ooh and aah over that kind of thing. In general we're pretty much just talking about a metal box here so there's not all that much that can really go wrong/be different though.
4. The fact that the shop is letting me do this is kind of like a favor to me. Normally they don't deal with such small orders, so I don't want to cause too much of a fuss, though of course I want to make sure that the case comes out as good as it can be.

Still though, it's basically fitting into the original design that we wanted, where there would be insets cut into the bottom. And just like how you wanted washers along the bottom, there is instead now a whole sheet of plastic on top of the base of the case that the PCB will sit on and that it will be screwed into.

I do definitely wish that I could have a prototype to show off and really make sure that everything was perfect, but I'll have to settle for the plotter's imitation. Since I'm not asking for people's money in advance, if something goes bad I'm the only one who loses money as people could just decide not to buy the final product once it's ready.

dirge · « **Reply #35 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 06:05:02 »

In for one, whichever is cheaper.

oneproduct · « **Reply #36 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 07:39:01 »

Quote from: dirge;533827

In for one, whichever is cheaper.

In general they will be very similar in price, probably within $5 of each other with steel being the cheaper one. The cost will be mostly from labor, not materials. It's better to just pick the one that you think you would prefer. Aluminum is lighter weight and lighter color while steel is heavier, and some people like that extra weight as a sign of solidity.

PixelVandalism · « **Reply #37 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 07:54:33 »

I'd probably get one if they were cheap..

kaiserreich · « **Reply #38 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:08:30 »

1x Aluminum
1x Stainless Steel

demik · « **Reply #39 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:13:20 »

Imsto's were 140, not 170.

They only were 170 due to EMS shipping

oneproduct · « **Reply #40 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:20:34 »

Quote from: demik;533846

Imsto's were 140, not 170.

They only were 170 due to EMS shipping

Ah, thanks. I'm still aiming for less than that though. A bunch of people aren't posting any sorts of numbers so I think I'm going to start to assume that anything over $100 and it's kind of a no-go. But again, that's kind of the upper bound that I am guessing on price, so it shouldn't be any worse than that but it could be a lot better. But I guess I'll just wait to get an estimate instead of making too many presumptions about costs.

Assuming that all will go well, it might also be good to consider if anybody in the US would want to handle distribution instead of me sending it out to each person individually since I'm in Canada. Could cut back on shipping costs nicely.

demik · « **Reply #41 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:26:39 »

Find out how much a prototype costs and I'd like to fund one so ppl will feel safer buying one

metafour · « **Reply #42 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:32:54 »

I'd be in for one aluminum if it's around $100. If I can get two for around that price then I'd take two.

oneproduct · « **Reply #43 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:43:27 »

Quote from: demik;533853

Find out how much a prototype costs and I'd like to fund one so ppl will feel safer buying one

I don't think that it's going to be reasonable enough to consider, but I'll ask some questions on Monday or Tuesday.

lightsout714 · « **Reply #44 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 08:45:16 »

I'd be willing to help out in shipping. I'm located in California.If that's something your serious about let me know.

And Demik that's pretty awesome of you.

oneproduct · « **Reply #45 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 09:32:20 »

Quote from: lightsout714;533870

I'd be willing to help out in shipping. I'm located in California.If that's something your serious about let me know.

And Demik that's pretty awesome of you.

I'm in Eastern Canada, so you're pretty much on the other side of North America from me. Should probably find someone else either closer to me or more central within the US, but thanks for the offer. On the bright side, since these will be made in Canada, NAFTA should keep them duty free at the border!

lightsout714 · « **Reply #46 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 09:34:33 »

Quote from: oneproduct;533890

I'm in Eastern Canada, so you're pretty much on the other side of North America from me. Should probably find someone else either closer to me or more central within the US, but thanks for the offer. On the bright side, since these will be made in Canada, NAFTA should keep them duty free at the border!

Yah I guess that wouldn't make sense. We need someone in kansas!!!

Nighted · « **Reply #47 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 10:14:05 »

1x Stainless Steel

oneproduct · « **Reply #48 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 13:37:53 »

Quote from: ekw808;533594

no love for the race =(

Really not a fan of the race because it doesn't really need that function row and I hate the right column with pg up/down, home and end. I think that the poker and HHKB do the small layout with Fn layer better. I might buy a pure in the future though, but those will be available for purchase with a metal case already. Maybe if we're lucky its PCB will have the same physical arrangements because all they did was move around the function layer and add a screw in the middle of the PCB. If that's the case, you could use this same metal case for that by just tapping another screw hole. We'll have to get somebody to put up some pictures once they get it.

mkawa · « **Reply #49 on:** Sat, 03 March 2012, 13:42:01 »

Quote from: oneproduct;533824

Yea, I had thought about that, but a few things that kind of sway me away:
1. The setup fee represents a substantial part of the process, so iterating through prototypes that have to actually be manufactured isn't so great. My friend said that at around 60 cases the cost increase becomes about linear, so that is somewhat indicative of the impact of setup fees. I don't expect to have more than around 30 orders.
2. I wanted to keep the cost as low as possible because I don't really want to end up near the... $170 (?) that imsto's cases went for.
3. Even if there are some minor problems with the design people will still probably like it anyways just because it's a metal case and we ooh and aah over that kind of thing. In general we're pretty much just talking about a metal box here so there's not all that much that can really go wrong/be different though.
4. The fact that the shop is letting me do this is kind of like a favor to me. Normally they don't deal with such small orders, so I don't want to cause too much of a fuss, though of course I want to make sure that the case comes out as good as it can be.

Still though, it's basically fitting into the original design that we wanted, where there would be insets cut into the bottom. And just like how you wanted washers along the bottom, there is instead now a whole sheet of plastic on top of the base of the case that the PCB will sit on and that it will be screwed into.

I do definitely wish that I could have a prototype to show off and really make sure that everything was perfect, but I'll have to settle for the plotter's imitation. Since I'm not asking for people's money in advance, if something goes bad I'm the only one who loses money as people could just decide not to buy the final product once it's ready.

i'm 100% willing to help out with prototyping. i've been wanting to get something like this done anyway. i can also help out with US distribution. PM me, demik and lightsout if this sounds good to you.

ps, these are pretty reasonably concerns. we'd like to know the costs involved though so we can get things as perfect as reasonably possible before a large run is made.

pps, one reason to get this right is that it will work with a large number of keyboard designs -- the upcoming dox, the pure, and the poker; i think there will be a fair amount of demand for this (i want at least a few for one)

News:

Author Topic: [Got an awesome price quote! See post 230] Aluminum poker cases (Read 43966 times)