This is a thread for discussing the rules declared and enforced for the classifieds forum. Below is a copy of the classifieds forum rules as of 5/23/12. Please note that early posts in this thread may refer to iterations of the rules that are no longer stated in this thread. Best to start at the end if you wish to continue discussing either the content or enforcement of rules in the classifieds forum.


These rules are subject to change, so please check this thread periodically. If you take offense to any of these rules, please PM Quarzac with your concerns.

1) Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in buying from a seller, STAY OUT OF HIS/HER THREAD. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

2) Bumping: Posts that consist of nothing but the word "bump", "ttt", "top", etc. are not acceptable posts, regardless of the forum. If you cannot think of a way to add useful information to a FS/WTB/FA thread, do not add a post to the thread. This new information does not have to be earth shattering, but each new post in a thread should add information to that thread. In addition, please allow 24 hours between posts to your own threads that are not responses to interested parties.

3) Thread Closure: To be fair to other sellers, please close your threads once both parties in a transaction have left iTrader feedback.

4) Method of Sale: We will not regulate method of sale. Instead, we encourage members to "vote with your dollars". If you don't like the method that a user is using to tell his or her item, don't buy it! Ignore it, and let the thread sink.

5) Conflict resolution: CAVEAT EMPTOR. Moderators will not step in to mediate deals gone bad. BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING/SELLING ON THIS FORUM! We accept no liability and will provide no services to buyer or seller short of providing a forum for advertisements and a method for buyer/seller feedback. On that note, we highly encourage buyers and sellers to reference their own feedback ratings (heatware, ebay, etc), in addition to iTrader.

Posts disobeying these rules may be subject to moderator action.

Thanks folks.

2)do it like ocn. exactly 24 after your last bump you can bump again.

3) i say keep it open until item is received.

We should ban auctions.

Come on, I don't hide my opinions on the matter. All it does is trys to squeeze every last penny out of people. Because we are such an enthusastic group we get carried away and auctions for 2 keycaps end at $200.

What stops people "shill bidding"? If I bid $300 and the next highest bid is $200. All the seller has to do is say someone bid $290 and he has just pocked himself another $100.

Man this forums is starting to become OCN, I really don't like these new rules..
I wish geekhack goes back to how it was.  Sure Ripster and KL's poopsling could of been offensive to some people, but I rather have that then all these new rules and mods..   That's what I found great about Geekhack, you didn't have to be scared about being banned and it was a wild west where gunslingers would troll, people could socialize, and we can talk about geeky stuff...

I am just afraid Mods will get over their heads and enforce too hard, Geekhack will be like any other tech enthusiast website([H], OCN)

No problem with the rules. They are reasonable and help the community.

I also want fully accountable mods, no mystery deletions with no warnig/explanations like what is proposed in the OP. If you want to keep the standards high, start there. Keep it easy to see and understand.

Topics like posting cannabis has to be kept to members forums as it is against forum rules anyway.

I don't think that everyone should know what the mods are doing as it could cause hostility. If you do something wrong, you will get warning/infractions. The whole world doesn't need to know what you did and what mod pulled you up on it.

#1, In other forums I go on Mods aren't treated as normal members (hostility) I don't want this to happen here. Look at a certian member, he is already getting annoyed and flaming the mods.
#2, If we let everyone know what the people said and what action got taken, there would be no reason to remove it from the forum in the first place.

For those who complain about the advent of rules. First, we have had a set of rules since the beginning of time (of the forum). Second, you don't get to have this both ways; you can't both not have a set of rules and complain about someone else breaking what you consider to be a forum rule.

Hence, it's easiest for all involved to simply agree to abide by a simple, effective set of discussion rules (again, we all did this when we signed up!).

Finally, this is a bit of a tangent, but I very much think it needs to be said: I personally consider myself to be a volunteer member of the community that is following moderation guidelines in such a way that any other well behaved member of the community could be swapped into my place and more or less the same actions would be taken.

I think all are bad. Kind of like your attempted baiting. Do you want to be banned just to say, look they hate me?

I really don't like the auction stuff here in classifieds, as already has been said it really goes against what i think a community of keyboard enthusiasts should strive for (sharing the wealth and helping each other out, so we can enjoy our common interest even more).
Also i find reselling/reauctioning clickclack keys for anything but the retail price really offensiv towards the creator and the community, as clicklack sells them for a really fair price and he could easily charge more but chooses not to.

I think if classifieds is going to keep allowing auctions there need to be rules, so that they will be more transparent. Only open bids in the thread, prolonging auctions on bids within the last 15 mins maybe to prevent sniping.
If it is going to be subforum for auctions  i feel it has to be much more moderated. Because i think as is ppl are unhapy with auctions they will threadcrap said auctions which isn't ok aswell.

Other than that.
1) agreed
2) 24h bumps
3) Thread should be closed after item is recieved (presuming there is nothing wrong with the recieved item)
4) really agree with that as it would benefit less experienced users like myself. Also if rule 4 will make it, it might be good to have a subforum where ppl can ask other users to gauge stuff they are going to sell which could also lead to a good archive if sellers will edit the final selling price into those threads.
5) see above

Btw i don't know if any of you played diablo2 but i feel this forum has worse rules than forums i used back then to trade virtual goods, so i really would like to see some changes.

agree with Input.  Set the rules up, make them fair, and when you take action based on the rules.  SAY SO.  This is called transparency.  If you just delete posts and close threads, even for good reasons, people won't know.  People will just think mods abuse their power.  Also, mods need to be accountable for their actions.  When people see mods do the right things and state what they do and why, people will respect that.  Otherwise, you will just be pushing more and more people away.

Honestly, the way the original rules were written (the tone) totally turned me off.  Now it is getting better.

1) in programmer jargon, "deprecated" means most aptly "no longer supported". i wasn't aware that that is so different from its dictionary definition. in the future it's probably fine to ask what it means without condescension and a very large video.

2) thanks for the input(, ) nirvana, litster and others. i and the other moderators truly appreciate it.

2a) my feeling is that, as moderators, we are agents of imav more than that of the community. where possible, yes, we would like to serve the community, but i feel the way forward to doing that is to assist imav. this may require playing the bad guy sometimes, but that is why, like most volunteer positions, it's a bit thankless.

2b) we have discussed adding more transparency to moderation actions, and the problem is that it often invites as much or more non-productive argument as productive argument, which requires more moderation and so on...

3) a number of us on the board are, yes, highly technical people, and we (in fact i, in particular) are highly direct, brusque, what have you; this is not necessarily because we hate everyone or aspire to be law enforcement officers, but because that is the way we are used to communicating, and changing our mode of communication takes time and constructive advice. please keep this in mind when you consider your comments.

So are ClickClack auctions allowed then?

sell whatever you want however you want.

I don't know, I'm okay with this.

It makes more sense to order the threads via the last changes made to them, or the last information added, instead of the seller's forum disponibility.

Is there any way we can have auction threads moved off-site, to eBay or similar? With the strict "no threadcrapping" policy, there is no way for the community to "self police," and to call out profiteering weasels for the scum they are. These "members" are only here to try and make money off other members of our community, simply because they possess something that is in high demand. Yes, I'm talking about Clack Factory skulls, etc. Heck, I got caught up in it at one time, as a buyer, before I knew that it only hurts the community to artificially inflate the prices so. I see the folly of it now, but we need to help other new members see it also.

Either that, or loosen up on the "no threadcrapping" policy. If you don't want people "crapping" in your thread, then don't be a jerk with your sale.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Anyone else want to add to the discussion?

It can't be any simpler than 'if you don't like the prices, you don't need to participate'. Do you go into a Target and complain to the management that you don't like the price on something? No. You go somewhere else and buy it there.

If people can't get that, then simply require 'Auction' threads to be locked on the first post. This way, nobody can post, complain, whine or otherwise, and everything is handled in PM's. It's either that or not allowing auctions at all.

LIST A STARTING PRICE FFS.

**** this "shoot me an offer" crap

give people something to start with!!

It can't be any simpler than 'if you don't like the prices, you don't need to participate'. Do you go into a Target and complain to the management that you don't like the price on something? No. You go somewhere else and buy it there.

If people can't get that, then simply require 'Auction' threads to be locked on the first post. This way, nobody can post, complain, whine or otherwise, and everything is handled in PM's. It's either that or not allowing auctions at all.

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

^ Batman ?

It's clearly the green lantern....

Quote from: sth on Mon, 06 August 2012, 20:10:11

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

First of all, wrong bro. I am sorry, but it's a free market. And as such, people are free to post something for whatever they wish. You are FREE to not participate. Complaining and flaming someone because of that only drags the morale of the forum down and reflects poorly on GH.

Do you complain to ebay when someone sold an item for what you FELT was many times more than it was worth? Seriously, check yoself.

Also, don't spread lies about me. I never crap in someones sale thread.

There is absolutely no such thing as a free market that actually exists and can be used as a comparable model here.
eBay sellers PAY TO SELL on ebay. There is no fee to sell on geekhack, and the entire site is run out of love at a monetary loss.
 There is no market here without the community, and lying TO FURTHER YOUR PROFIT is unacceptable behaviour. I seriously can't believe people don't get banned for that kind of ****.

Quote from: MagicMeatball on Mon, 06 August 2012, 20:12:57

Quote from: sth on Mon, 06 August 2012, 20:10:11

But it's not that simple. It's not about not liking the prices, it's about the prices being predicated on a lie fabricated to put more money in one person's pocket. It's like if you went to target and bought something, only for the cashier to tell you that the item you wanted is going to cost more and then pocket the extra. Compound that with the fact that geekhack is not a for-profit entity and you can hopefully see where I and others have a problem with simplifying everything to 'if you don't like it dont buy it.'

Also dude you are a worse threadcrapper than I am

First of all, wrong bro. I am sorry, but it's a free market. And as such, people are free to post something for whatever they wish. You are FREE to not participate. Complaining and flaming someone because of that only drags the morale of the forum down and reflects poorly on GH.

Do you complain to ebay when someone sold an item for what you FELT was many times more than it was worth? Seriously, check yoself.

Also, don't spread lies about me. I never crap in someones sale thread.

There is absolutely no such thing as a free market that actually exists and can be used as a comparable model here.
eBay sellers PAY TO SELL on ebay. There is no fee to sell on geekhack, and the entire site is run out of love at a monetary loss.
 There is no market here without the community, and lying TO FURTHER YOUR PROFIT is unacceptable behaviour. I seriously can't believe people don't get banned for that kind of ****.

or get vendor forums.

IF U MAKE MONEY OFF GH GET A ****ING VENDOR FORUM. especially group buys, large amounts of money too. well, compared to everybody else.

There is absolutely no such thing as a free market that actually exists and can be used as a comparable model here.
eBay sellers PAY TO SELL on ebay. There is no fee to sell on geekhack, and the entire site is run out of love at a monetary loss.
 There is no market here without the community, and lying TO FURTHER YOUR PROFIT is unacceptable behaviour. I seriously can't believe people don't get banned for that kind of ****.

It sounds like you are really just upset because you feel it lacks integrity. But you don't have much to stand on in terms of basis for your feelings. It IS a free market in the sense that GH allows people to make the posts. They also tell you clearly, that you do not have to participate. If GH as a community shuns this 'behavior' as you refer to it, then nothing would ever get bought, and the listing would drop down into oblivion. But the fact is, it's a hard to obtain item, and holds value for those willing to spend on it. I say this time and time again... ITS ONLY EXPENSIVE AND OR OVERPRICED TO THE PEOPLE THAT WOULDNT PAY OR FEEL ITS WRONG TO PAY THAT MUCH MONEY.

Hope that makes sense.....