Author Topic: I need a GOOD Ergonomic Keyboard (Read 15932 times)

CaptainKirk · « **on:** Thu, 24 December 2009, 09:10:24 »

I had a nice thread here a month and decided to buy a Kinesis Freestyle to replace my old Datadesk. The feel of the keys on the Kinesis is very nice and the overall layout is nice, BUT there are two serious problems which I feel are mistakes. To repeat them, they are:

1 the layout of the ZXCVB keys is more like a traditional keyboard and
not like an ergonomic one. What I mean is that the B key is down and
to the right of the G key whereas in an ergo keyboard, like my
Datadesk, the B is below and slightly to the left of the G.

If I put my hands on the home position and close my eyes and let my
fingers naturally curl in towards the palm, the right fingers land on
the correct keys, but the left hand lands a half key off. This seems
to be a real pity. On my Datadesk the top left corner of the B is
adjacent to the bottom right corner of the F. In this Kinesis, those
two corners are about a half inch away from each other.

2 a touch typist types a 6 with this right hand. This keyboard puts
the 6 on the LEFT keyboard. It's bizarre and I believe it's a mistake.

But now what should I do? The Datadesk now feels so HARD to press the keys, but the ZXCVB are perfect, as is the 6.

I suppose I could get uTRON or the fancy fancy keyboard from Kinesis or Maltron. Even the cheaper one at Kinesis, however, is 3 times the keyboard I am trying to return.

Any advice for a guy who just wants a good ergo keyboard?

JBert · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 24 December 2009, 11:25:34 »

This problem is hard to solve as most keyboard makers do what they feel is right. I see a few options, although not all as realistic:

Make a custom Cherry keyboard. At least one member posted how he made the switch-holding plate and the matrix. Only for advanced DIY geeks.
Buy another SmartBoard and mod the Alps switches. This is still a lot of work though, takes some skill and might result in a keyboard with varying weights. It mostly takes time.
Buy a Kinesis Contour keyboard, possibly second-hand. This isn't an adjustable split keyboard though.
Buy some other keyboard and try to live with it. Takes no DIY stuff, only retraining of your muscle memory.

Other than that, I think you are out of luck unless someone else has any ideas.

Rajagra · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 24 December 2009, 11:29:02 »

I don't know a perfect ergonomic keyboard, but I'm going to point out a problem with what you are asking for.

On the one hand (no pun...) you are asking for a keyboard that is brave enough to depart from the conventional layout. But on the other hand you are complaining that the 6 key should still be assigned to the right hand. You can't have it both ways - do you want conventional, or do you want improved?

This is why the perfect ergonomic keyboard doesn't exist. Nobody will ever agree on the best layout.

I too have posted that 6 "belongs" to the right hand. But people pointed out that the 6 key is closer to the left index finger than the right one. And they were right when I checked. The B key is equidistant. The ideal for split keyboards would be to have B and 6 duplicated on both sides to suit all users.

I have to agree with the problem with how the keys are staggered. Even if you retrain your typing as per the picture below it isn't ideal, because you would be increasing how far you have to reach for the QWERTY row - 3/4 key width instead of 1/4 key width.

CaptainKirk · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 24 December 2009, 12:29:52 »

@JBerg: I am not a DIYer, unfortunately.

I actually don't have that much interest in a split keyboard. I am happy with an ergo one-piece. I got the Freestyle just because it seemed the best choice, that's all.

Quote from: Rajagra;145056

I too have posted that 6 "belongs" to the right hand. But people pointed out that the 6 key is closer to the left index finger than the right one. And they were right when I checked. The B key is equidistant. The ideal for split keyboards would be to have B and 6 duplicated on both sides to suit all users.

The 6 is closer to the left index finger only a keyboard that puts it there. On my Datadesk it's way closer to the right.

I found some great up-close pictures of it here: http://www.atpm.com/12.05/smartboard.shtml

But the drawbacks are also serious: odd placement of home/end/pgup/pgdown and hard-to-press keys.

So perhaps a Kinesis Contour or Advantage will be an idea. Only problem is that I am in Israel. Someone brought me the Freestyle from the USA (and could return it) but to ship a new keyboard makes it even more expensive. And to purchase in England appears to be the same. OK, maybe that's just life.

Thank you.

Rajagra · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 24 December 2009, 18:53:57 »

The main layout of that smartboard is pretty good, apart from the navigation keys, as you say.

While looking for better pictures, I stumbled across the Truly Ergonomic Computer Keyboard:

Based on Cherry switches (brown, blue or black) and planned to be available Q2 2010. I quite like it.

Edit> They have a survey linked at the bottom of that page, so if you think it needs improvement, now is your chance to let them know! :smile:

CaptainKirk · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 25 December 2009, 03:48:49 »

I have only one thing to say regarding your post:

GET ME ONE. NOW!

I took the survey also.

Fantastic find, mate. Keep up the good work!

dusanx · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 25 December 2009, 05:29:59 »

Quote from: Rajagra;145130

Edit> They have a survey linked at the bottom of that page, so if you think it needs improvement, now is your chance to let them know! :smile:

Very interesting layout, looks like I can use it. They have Qwerty and Dvorak in that survey but there is no mention of Colemak. I suggested truly exchangable keycaps or Colemak layout out of the box. Can't beat small layout and this may be first 'ergonomic' kbd that I like.

Rajagra · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 25 December 2009, 14:11:09 »

I mentioned Colemak and split/adjustable designs when I filled the survey. Interesting to note that in the survey they already hinted at layouts that are better than Dvorak - could this be the first Colemak in hardware board? I'll post in the Colemak forum, see if we can make this happen.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 25 December 2009, 21:45:16 »

That is a pretty interesting keyboard like it is but it really needs to be programmable because I don't really like some of the choices they have made for the keys in the middle and the sides. Really dislike the position of the tab key and Esc being moved to the top. I think it would have been better to move the backspace to the middle and move the -= keys back to where they belong. But still an interesting board. Might even get one after I get the μTRON if the build quality is there.

Whiskey in the Jar-o · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 27 February 2010, 02:30:17 »

Looks a lot like this:

http://www.dansdata.com/edkb.htm

itlnstln · « **Reply #10 on:** Mon, 01 March 2010, 07:46:18 »

Quote from: Whiskey in the Jar-o;161096

Looks a lot like this:

http://www.dansdata.com/edkb.htm

Where have you been? Are you still using nekkid ALPS?

Whiskey in the Jar-o · « **Reply #11 on:** Mon, 01 March 2010, 19:05:08 »

Quote from: itlnstln;161341

Where have you been? Are you still using nekkid ALPS?

The Evolution is gathering dust for now, until I can work out better keycaps (hate the wobble). Nekkid is just too prickly. These days, I mainly use MS Natural boards: Multimedia at work, NEK4000 and the original Natural at home. I also have a solar-rechargeable Cherry Cymotion, but the batteries kept getting drained. This forum sure has grown since the early days (and I thought I was the only one). But as my RSI subsided, so did my KB obsession.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #12 on:** Mon, 01 March 2010, 19:47:17 »

Quote from: Rajagra;145130

The main layout of that smartboard is pretty good, apart from the navigation keys, as you say.

While looking for better pictures, I stumbled across the Truly Ergonomic Computer Keyboard:

Based on Cherry switches (brown, blue or black) and planned to be available Q2 2010. I quite like it.

Edit> They have a survey linked at the bottom of that page, so if you think it needs improvement, now is your chance to let them know! :smile:

Looks pretty sweet. Wish it had a trackpoint.

iMav · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 05 December 2010, 20:40:20 »

Quote from: Whiskey in the Jar-o;161393

The Evolution is gathering dust for now, until I can work out better keycaps (hate the wobble). Nekkid is just too prickly. These days, I mainly use MS Natural boards: Multimedia at work, NEK4000 and the original Natural at home. I also have a solar-rechargeable Cherry Cymotion, but the batteries kept getting drained. This forum sure has grown since the early days (and I thought I was the only one). But as my RSI subsided, so did my KB obsession.

Huh. Going through some old threads and realized i had totally missed a brief return from one of our EARLY members.

Don't be a stranger!!

taswyn · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 06 December 2010, 04:17:15 »

Since you already ressurected it, I can't resist

Quote

Does anybody ever build physical prototypes any more?

Of course they do... when they actually intend to at least TRY releasing a product =P yay vaporware!

Also that would have been the perfect keyboard, except I *hate* with a passion the diamond arrow key configuration. Yay pyramid! It reminds me of the MS Ergo Elite vs Pro, and how sad I was that it was the Pro that was discontinued =/ That and they messed around with the ctrl/shift/alt placement far too much for me, in the "latest" mockups on their site >.>

bluecar5556 · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 09 March 2011, 15:22:51 »

Split Kinesis Contour Classic (advantage) keyboard mod

YoshiCaps · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:32:37 »

Dude, are there ergonomic mechanical gaming keyboards

)

profet · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun, 23 October 2016, 16:02:07 »

Holy thread necromancy

xtrafrood · « **Reply #18 on:** Sun, 23 October 2016, 16:20:15 »

Awesome thread but damn that necro, though

vvp · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 23 October 2016, 16:58:17 »

Quote from: yoshilikesmxbrowns on Sat, 22 October 2016, 21:32:37

Dude, are there ergonomic mechanical gaming keyboards )

I would say Kinesis Advantage is qute a good gaming keyboard. It has on the fly remap/macros which may be usefull for games. But does not have profiles/configurations and cannot send mouse events.

Does King's assembly count as gaming?
https://bestmoschino.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/three-body-keyboard-easily-surpass-30-years-on-hand-speed/

I build my own version of split kinesis/maltron. Not sure it counts as gaming. I have programmed a strafe jump macro in it (it can run simple C-like programs like macros; the programs can be loaded into keyboard with a PC app). But it does not have back-light. If that is what you mean by gaming.
https://deskthority.net/post282413.html#p282413
And that thread points to a few other DIY contoured keyboards.

Is there any ergonomic keyboard with back-light? Looks like this one has back-light:
http://designtaxi.com/news/376865/This-Butterfly-Shaped-Wooden-Keyboard-Is-Ergonomic-And-Fully-Customizable/

This adjustable topre board looks interesting too.
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/designing-a-custom-topre-board-t11734.html

Findecanor · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 16 November 2016, 11:46:47 »

Quote from: vvp on Sun, 23 October 2016, 16:58:17

I would say Kinesis Advantage is qute a good gaming keyboard. It has on the fly remap/macros which may be usefull for games. But does not have profiles/configurations and cannot send mouse events.

The Kinesis Advantage has been discontinued, replaced with Kinesis Advantage2. This one has an updated controller which does have support for multiple configurations that you could change between with a key combination. (I have not read the user manual, so don't ask me for details).

Kinesis has also talked now and then that they are going to make a mechanical gaming version of the Freestyle2.
No details are out on when it will be available though.

vvp · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 16 November 2016, 12:23:28 »

Good to know. I guess it was about time to add configurations.
I have only Kinesis Advantage 1. But I do not use it any more.

Salt Peanuts · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 16 November 2016, 13:29:13 »

Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 16 November 2016, 11:46:47

Kinesis has also talked now and then that they are going to make a mechanical gaming version of the Freestyle2.
No details are out on when it will be available though.

ETA of Q1 2017.

I have both Adv1 and Adv2. Have not gamed with either one, though.

vivalarevolución · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 16 November 2016, 19:53:25 »

who digs this stuff up

davkol · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 17 November 2016, 10:12:54 »

Quote from: vivalarevolución on Wed, 16 November 2016, 19:53:25

who digs this stuff up

Yet another new user spamming worthless clutter, probably to boost their post count, so that they can buy/sell **** (very likely some "artisans" or whatever).

vivalarevolución · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 17 November 2016, 19:50:04 »

Quote from: davkol on Thu, 17 November 2016, 10:12:54

Quote from: vivalarevolución on Wed, 16 November 2016, 19:53:25
who digs this stuff up
Yet another new user spamming worthless clutter, probably to boost their post count, so that they can buy/sell **** (very likely some "artisans" or whatever).

Wonderful.

News:

Author Topic: I need a GOOD Ergonomic Keyboard (Read 15932 times)