Geekhack Keyboard Proposal

[Shawn Stanford]

FWIW: The new i-rocks keyboard has a decent layout space-wise. Just a matter of deleting the numpad:


Edit: This layout could also be squeezed a little width-wise if the '|\' key were moved and some space cheated off the backspace, Enter, RShift, RCtrl and RAlt keys. This would let you slide the cursor and gross movement keys left.

Edit: Thinking about it: I'd be willing to lose the separate F keys if there was a conveniently placed function modifier to use with the numeric keys. However, gamers might object to this...

Edit: I hope nobody's getting too wrapped around the axle about this thought exercise. I'm enjoying the process and I hope everyone else is as well. When it's all said and done, I'll take a look at the final version and make a decision to beg someone to make it and put in a pre-order or not. But it's nothing to lose any sleep or hair over.

[quadibloc]

Originally Posted by msiegel

i still like your original design :)

Thank you.

Originally Posted by msiegel

excuse my crude editing, all the numeric pad keys are supposed to be normal, just moved down one row ;)

In fact, my original arrangement



could definitely be remapped in such an arrangement. The three yellow keys and 7, 8, and 9 would be the Insert/Page Down rectangle in standard shape, and, just as you depict, 1, 2, 3, and 5 could be the inverted-T cursor cluster.

I don't think that's what most people would want as the default, but it would be useful for Shawn.

Originally Posted by Shawn Stanford

I hope nobody's getting too wrapped around the axle about this thought exercise.

Well, I was looking for input as to how I could improve my design to satisfy more people. What's bothering me is that while your input was one of the first specific suggestions I received, it looks like the requirement for an inverted-T cursor cluster comes into conflict with most other constraints on the keyboard design.

However, it could be that I'm not being ingenious enough... or I'm trying to be too clever.

So instead of being too clever, why not just take the plain space saver keyboard arrangement (I've drawn this one quickly, so I haven't added in Windows keys, or shown where an Fn key would go to allow remapping) and add keys that would allow a numeric keypad to be created without making the layout bigger (I just left the added keys in numeric keypad form, instead of making them yellow, so it's clear and obvious how the remapping would work.)



So the keyboard would actually look like this, perhaps:

[JBert]

Originally Posted by quadibloc

In fact, my original arrangement



could definitely be remapped in such an arrangement. The three yellow keys and 7, 8, and 9 would be the Insert/Page Down rectangle in standard shape, and, just as you depict, 1, 2, 3, and 5 could be the inverted-T cursor cluster.

I don't think that's what most people would want as the default, but it would be useful for Shawn.

Some kind of hybrid cursor/misc/numpad block would be no problem for me if I can hold the Fn key with the thumb of my other hand, or if you can make the Fn layer "stick"/lock for a while.

Additionally, you could even push the F-keys down into the numeric row and the Esc key into the top left key (the tilde key). If you need a tilde, you can map it to Fn+Esc of course.
Those pesky Print Screen, Scroll lock and pause keys haven't got a home yet, so maybe we should omit them or stuff them into some Fn layer.

Anyway, I guess we have now come full circle...


EDIT: Oh, you edited your post.

[timw4mail]

What about my compact layout idea? Nobody likes the grouping of the function keys?
http://timshomepage.net/layout.php

[JBert]

The Compaq MX11800 has an F-keys block like that and it is rather annoying.
The basic problem is that (1) most layouts use a single row (2) your fingers haven't got a real "anchor point".

[quadibloc]

Originally Posted by timw4mail

What about my compact layout idea? Nobody likes the grouping of the function keys?
http://timshomepage.net/layout.php

I meant to ask about that keyboard layout when I saw it; was it intended to be a non-staggered layout, or was it just drawn that way for simplicity?

As is no doubt noticeable, I'm going for as conventional a keyboard as possible, to have the widest possible appeal. Of course one can select Colemak or Dvorak on the computer, but I'm assuming most people want an ordinary keyboard... yet just different enough not to be what they already have.

[quadibloc]

Originally Posted by JBert

EDIT: Oh, you edited your post.

And now I've edited it again! After coming full circle, yes, I tried to move further along and find one more way to make Shawn happy along with everyone else... and come up with an interesting layout that makes me happy too.

[timw4mail]

Originally Posted by quadibloc

I meant to ask about that keyboard layout when I saw it; was it intended to be a non-staggered layout, or was it just drawn that way for simplicity?

As is no doubt noticeable, I'm going for as conventional a keyboard as possible, to have the widest possible appeal. Of course one can select Colemak or Dvorak on the computer, but I'm assuming most people want an ordinary keyboard... yet just different enough not to be what they already have.

Yes, it is intended to be non-staggered, although it could just as easily be made staggered, I suppose.

[Rajagra]

Originally Posted by quadibloc

was it intended to be a non-staggered layout, or was it just drawn that way for simplicity?

As is no doubt noticeable, I'm going for as conventional a keyboard as possible, to have the widest possible appeal.

I just realised something while looking at DreymaR's post. If you reduce the offset of each row to be 1/4 key width each time (instead of the normal 1/2, 1/4, 1/2) then people probably wouldn't even notice the change, but it should be more comfortable.

[Shawn Stanford]

Originally Posted by quadibloc

What's bothering me is that while your input was one of the first specific suggestions I received, it looks like the requirement for an inverted-T cursor cluster comes into conflict with most other constraints on the keyboard design.

Well, I'm definitely hooked on the inverted T. I thought it was one of the best things since sliced bread when keyboards went from imbedding the cursor movement keys in the numeric keypad and to the inverted T. And I have never found enough use for the numeric keypad to justify having one. I don't even remember the last time I used one; it's probably been ten years or more.

Your original layout would work fine with the far left top-row key pre-defined as ESC and the system control keys (Print Screen, etc.) in the three blank keys over the numeric keypad, and the top row defined as F-keys with the use of the green Function key (or even predefining the Windows and Menu keys as Function keys and deleting the protruding Function key).

My recommendation would be to try to get a set of blank or alternate keycaps for other arrangements. For instance, I would almost certainly redefine the numeric keypad into an inverted cursor T with the gross movement keys immediately above it.

[quadibloc]

Originally Posted by Shawn Stanford

I thought it was one of the best things since sliced bread when keyboards went from imbedding the cursor movement keys in the numeric keypad and to the inverted T.

I liked it too when the IBM PC keyboard went from having only a combined numeric keypad/cursor pad to having separate ones.

But I used keyboards before the PC that had cursor pads, so the arrangement on the 122-key keyboard seemed the fanciest, and the diamond shape a good compromise, and having left, up in one row, and right, down in the row beneath was another one I was used to.

If the cursor keys are frequently used, though, then, yes, the standard arrangement should be kept so people don't have to keep switching.

At least, if you're willing to allow the arrangement of the Insert/Page Down block to be changed, there are more options.

[last-axiom-hero]

Greetings to the guys at Geekhack, from a former lurker.

In the last hours I was creating a Keyboard-Layout, and altough it is for german users it might have some features and ideas, you might take into consideration. The Layout is pirated from quadibloc's great homepage, hope you don't mind.

[1839cc]

I really like that last one quadibloc. Only change I might make is to cut alt and control down to single space and put Fn on the bottom row. :)

[Shawn Stanford]

Originally Posted by quadibloc

At least, if you're willing to allow the arrangement of the Insert/Page Down block to be changed, there are more options.

Well, like I said: if there are alternate or clear keycaps - or even blanks that I can write on with a Sharpie, I'll redefine the diamond block into an inverted T with the gross movement keys immediately above and the 'lock' keys at the top. And I still think you could cheat some space on the right side by changing the sizes of the right-side keys.

Like so:

                +-------+-------+-------+-------+
                | NumLk |PrtScr |ScrlLk |PausBrk|
                |       |       |       |       |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
|   +   |BackSp |       |   /   |   *   |   -   |
|   =   |       | Insert| Home  |PageUp |       |
+-----+------+--+-------+-------+-------+-------+
  {   |  }   |XX|   7   |   8   |   9   |   +   |
  [   |  ]   |XX| Delete|  End  |PageDn |       |
+----++------+--+-------+-------+-------+       |
  "  |  Enter   |   4   |   5   |   6   |       |
  '  |          |       |  UpAr |       |       |
+--+-+----------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
?  |    Shift   |   1   |   2   |   3   |       |
/  |            |  <--  |  DnAr |  -->  |       |
+--+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+       |
| RFunc | RCtrl | 0             |   .   | Enter |
|       |       |               |       |       |
+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

The "| \" key is going to have to go somewhere. If you make the LShift a regular-size key, then the "| \" can go outboard of the Z (122 key keyboards are this way, with "< >" outboard of the Z).

This also makes it possible to put the full 12 function keys along the top with Escape by itself to the left. In fact, you might as well since you have all that real estate above the alphanumerics. Or if the F keys were built into the numeric row, you could put the Escape key above the tilde, put in some indicator LEDs next to the lock keys on the right and have room for a logo and a nice pencil tray above the alphanumerics.

[last-axiom-hero]

And there is my latest contribution. The layout around the enter-key can be easily changed, but imho it is an advantage to have an bigger enter-key.

Maybe a list of thoughts that i had while creating this.

• The inverted-T-Arrow-Layout is common and only few people can live without it.
• The Del-Key is very useful, an with the placement next to the backspace it gets quite intuitive.
• The extra-Column of Macro-Keys takes a bit of horizontal space, but it can be so handy to directly have some bigger macros on dedicated keys instead of multimapping others in software.
• The additional column although allows the Esc-Key to be placed properly, enabling fast ragequiting in games ;)
• Most of this layout is totally standard, switchers won't have difficulties.
• Some Keys may miss, but they can be shift-mapped on existing Keys.
• The slight gaps between the core-field and the outter keys avoids pressing the wrong keys.