Author Topic: Scratch Build mini (Read 41020 times)

chimera15 · « **on:** Sat, 19 June 2010, 00:14:05 »

With the demise of the mini-guru going retail, and it seeming like the kbc board will have some funky layout that I'm not so happy about, I decided I'd finally try to build a board from scratch. I bought a teensy++ a long time ago to try to make a keyboard out of an typewriter, but that project failed since it was impossible to mount the switches. Anyway, I really want to try to make a board that I could resell, perhaps as just a kit, and as a hobby. I don't want to put a lot of time into constructing them however, as I was a sculptor for a number of years and I know how time consuming it can be to try to make stuff. The ideal will to be available to anyone who wants it in a kit form with instructions.

I asked Lowpoly if he would sell his keyboard like this as well, so hopefully he'll agree to that, in addition to this.

My board will will have this layout, since I came up with it I really want to try to build it:

The first task I'm going to set for myself is to play around with the teensy++, and see if I can get it to recognize key presses, then work out a matrix for it. If anyone knows of simple instructions to program the teensy++ I could use some links.

chimera15 · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 19 June 2010, 00:17:41 »

Like 63 keys it looks like, so that won't kill my wallet for mx blues hopefully, assuming I can get by the programming/pcb/plate making.

chimera15 · « **Reply #2 on:** Sun, 20 June 2010, 08:32:32 »

I bought a new scorpius m10 to harvest the switches from. $60 for 105 blue mx's, I think is the best deal I've found, and it may provide other valuable parts for this as well, for instance a plate.

Looking at the comparison, the plate won't match on the bottom, so going to have to somehow fabricate a new plate, which is probably going to be the hardest part.

chimera15 · « **Reply #3 on:** Sun, 20 June 2010, 08:40:57 »

Anyone know of a way to make a die/press just the size of one hole in a metal plate? Is there something ready made like that that doesn't cost $500 or something? How are plates like that made? They're stamped out with a die?

chimera15 · « **Reply #4 on:** Sun, 20 June 2010, 08:54:35 »

Hmm, I wonder.....

http://www.mcnichols.com/ecommerce/eos/stocklist?navCode=cc:square

That might actually work, except for the right hand shift/del/return which would not fit a grid pattern.... hmm

It looks like those plates are all over $100 which doesn't bode well. I don't know what size they are.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5759768_punch-square-holes-steel-strips.html

If I could get a die, maybe I could use my truck and a jack to apply the force required. lol

Hydron · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon, 21 June 2010, 07:47:23 »

You could always get holes laser cut or done with a CNC punch machine. Per unit cost isn't too bad, but setup could be expensive though. We get front/rear panels of equipment enclosures done like that for work.

chimera15 · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon, 21 June 2010, 10:17:03 »

Where?

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 21 June 2010, 12:17:24 »

- Dremel + some patience
- Drill + small files + even more patience
- A friend with access to a waterjet or similar

lowpoly · « **Reply #8 on:** Mon, 21 June 2010, 12:24:33 »

If you just want to modify an existing plate a Dremel may do.

If you want to punch a lot of holes into sheet metal yourself you might consider a spindle press:

example on ebay Germany

No idea what they go for used. You have to make a two part tool for this. A stamp (?) the size of the hole and slightly larger hole below this. I think the tool needs to be hardened.

Or have it done at emachineshop.com, their software is made for 2D construction. And you have full choice of materials.

chimera15 · « **Reply #9 on:** Mon, 21 June 2010, 19:57:28 »

Quote from: ripster;195229

In the Tube Amp world you use Greenlee punches.

Unfortunately the non-round ones are limited in styles.
Show Image

Plus, once again, we are talking .01" precision here or the keys start looking odd. Hard to do that with a punch.

I'd just go with straight PCB mount if I were you. That looks pretty simple since you're just drilling a line of straight holes. Set up a jig on a drill press and you're good to go.

Yup, without a plate though, even if you drill the holes correctly, they'll still be out of place, especially if I end up using alps switches. I really like the idea of being able to use either switch. I used this method in sections of my minitouch pcb, and it was really tough to make them look even. With cherrys of course you have those extra registration marks, so it might be a little more possible, but still really tough.

chimera15 · « **Reply #10 on:** Mon, 21 June 2010, 19:58:44 »

Total props and credit to DMW who helped me through the build and upload of firmware onto my teensy yesterday. I've never been able to build an open source project before, and never woulda been able to do it without his help. He's like a total genius. lol

chimera15 · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 23 June 2010, 08:37:35 »

Finished wiring the test board which I was able to cobble together from a bunch of spare alps switches. This will test to see if I can actually type with the teensy programing. Now I just have to define the keyset. I'll probably add more keys under the board to take the place of the missing keys in this layout. Most of it's correct except for the 4th and 5th row. Credit again to DMW who's walking me through creating the matrix. The great thing about using the teensy is that it has so many wiring points that you can use separate pins for each column to define the matrix, so you don't have to do any funky double keys and such. I was able to take a single length of wire and heat up the insulation and then solder the raw wire directly to the switch in a straight shot. Makes for a neat looking and fast way to solder a matrix. It should make for a simple pcb as well.

I have a blank pcb coming from ebay. A seller was able to cut a custom 10.5 x 4 inch pcb for me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320551777584&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Assuming I can get this going, all I need is a plate made for cherry mx's and I'll have a working keyboard. Then all I need is a case, and some caps.

didjamatic · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 23 June 2010, 09:00:57 »

WOW. That is seriously awesome. Keep posting updates!

chimera15 · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 23 June 2010, 09:18:53 »

Quote from: lowpoly;195219

If you just want to modify an existing plate a Dremel may do.

If you want to punch a lot of holes into sheet metal yourself you might consider a spindle press:

example on ebay Germany

No idea what they go for used. You have to make a two part tool for this. A stamp (?) the size of the hole and slightly larger hole below this. I think the tool needs to be hardened.

Or have it done at [URL=http://www.emachineshop.com]emachineshop.com, their software is made for 2D construction. And you have full choice of materials.

[/URL]

Would this work?

Pretty cheap? What die would work with it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilesco-M93-Friction-Driven-Spindle-Press-Accessory-/370296912943?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56376a7c2f

hmm, looks like there isn't enough room to run a plate through it though....?

didjamatic · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 23 June 2010, 09:45:19 »

You'd need dies and a steel frame rather than wood, but you can get tremendous force out of a simple bottle jack press.
DIY...

Harbor Freight 6 ton press $64

lowpoly · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 23 June 2010, 10:11:03 »

Quote from: chimera15;195706

[/URL]

Would this work?

Pretty cheap? What die would work with it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilesco-M93-Friction-Driven-Spindle-Press-Accessory-/370296912943?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56376a7c2f

hmm, looks like there isn't enough room to run a plate through it though....?

Wilesco is a german toy steam engine company.

You should be able to drive it from your steampunk 'board. :-)

To punch holes with a spindle press you also need the custom made tool I already mentioned. A 'male' tool which is just a block with a cross section the same size as the hole. And a 'female' part like 3x3" and 2" high with a hole in the middle. I'm just estimating, size depends on the press, IIRC.

My father had to file such a thing as a toolmaker apprentice. To add difficulty, they took the first part away after it was finished. So, with the second part he couldn't try. His was the only one that fit.

Findecanor · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 23 June 2010, 14:24:35 »

Quote from: chimera15;194933

Looking at the comparison, the plate won't match on the bottom, so going to have to somehow fabricate a new plate, which is probably going to be the hardest part.

How about cutting the plate apart and welding some of it together again?

On the other hand, would it be really wrong to have empty space in-between two switches in a rectangular hole on a plate?

dfj · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 24 June 2010, 04:00:53 »

Quote from: lowpoly;195714

My father had to file such a thing as a toolmaker apprentice. To add difficulty, they took the first part away after it was finished. So, with the second part he couldn't try. His was the only one that fit.

I wish they made our current batch of apprentices do this. During my last journey to a college-level machine-room (last year) I could not help but notice that a fresh hole in a plate-glass window bore an uncanny resemblance to a chuck-key for one of the many lathes installed across the area. Apparently, they did 2 days of flat filing and 3 days of listening to the instructor read them a photocopy of some safety regulations. After that, they were off to play with the machines. yay.

Just out of curiousity, how close do you expect one might one want the male and female die to fit: loose, sliding, tight, friction, press, interference (heh)? I Think 'friction' is about a half thou on a part close to an inch or 0.010-0.015mm on an ~20mm hole?

dfj

lowpoly · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 24 June 2010, 04:40:00 »

Should be loose to sliding, depending on the play of the spindle press. But it has been 25 years since I worked with one.

chimera15 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 01:29:40 »

DMW is a total God. His driver is 100% working with my teensy++ 1.0. I'm typing this on my test board. I now have a fully programmable keyboard thanks to him!! lol Totally wicked awesomeness.
I forgot I still need to test the function keys and see if I have that correct. But it's working perfectly on the top layer currently.

Hopefully I'll get the scorpius m10 and I can pull the switches later today. Now I really need to see about getting a plate made, or making one.

I contacted Signature Plastics about caps on Friday night, so hopefully they'll answer me today as well.

Thinking forward about possibly packaging this board in a kit for people. Using DMW's humblehacker driver offers a lot of options for the configuration of this board, using the teensy as the final chip. It might even allow for instance people to request certain layouts they want within the structure of the final parts. For instance if you don't want to compile the driver yourself you could request that I program the chip to have the control in place of the capslock. For others who are familiar or want to compile or maybe he'll have a pre-compiled version now, they would be able to change the layout themselves if they don't like it. His driver is really the bomb. lol

This test board even as it stands is probably the sickest board I own. The matrix is so simple to rewire for the hardware I can pop in any switch. It's pretty awesome.

Tested up to 111 wpm now. lol

lowpoly · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 04:01:46 »

Quote from: lowpoly;195219

If you want to punch a lot of holes into sheet metal yourself you might consider a spindle press:

example on ebay Germany

It went for EUR 1,50. Listed as "almost new". Buying an old press is probably the cheapest option.

Teensy is great. I have some here and look forward to put one into my Apple M0110 for a start.

Also, with the hand-wired approach you can use diodes instead of wire for the rows (or columns). Instant 6KRO.

chimera15 · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 05:32:06 »

Quote from: lowpoly;197092

It went for EUR 1,50. Listed as "almost new". Buying an old press is probably the cheapest option.

Teensy is great. I have some here and look forward to put one into my Apple M0110 for a start.

Also, with the hand-wired approach you can use diodes instead of wire for the rows (or columns). Instant 6KRO.

You bought that spindle press??? lol nice deal wow. Wish I could find a deal like that. The problem using that method though is it looks like the dies could cost almost as much or more than the press from what I could find?

chimera15 · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 05:45:06 »

I built a little box for it out of foam core, so I could play around with typing on it. I really like the flat padded thumbrest, it's really comfortable. I might try to include something like that in a final case design.

lowpoly · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 06:24:19 »

Quote from: chimera15;197104

You bought that spindle press??? lol nice deal wow. Wish I could find a deal like that. The problem using that method though is it looks like the dies could cost almost as much or more than the press from what I could find?

No, I didn't buy it, just watched the auction to see what they can go for.

You can do the dies yourself, you'd just need the material and some files.

chimera15 · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 07:24:13 »

Hmm, what material? Something hard huh? I just talked with Mchnichols:

http://www.mcnichols.com/ecommerce/eos/stocklist?navCode=cc:square&navCode=avc:aluminum

Even though they sell huge plates of pre punched materials like this, for around $100, they said it would be in the thousands of dollars to make a custom plate 11x4".

It looks like I'm going to have to come up with a home made solution of some sort.

It's interesting that they didn't have the tooling to do rectangular holes at all. I hadn't noticed before, but alps are rectangular, and cherrys are square. It could make cherry tooling much easier to find/make than alps. Ideally I'd love to make plates for each switch type, but it looks like it's going to be really difficult one way or the other to make a plate for a reasonable amount. I don't see a bloody metal plate being the the most expensive part of this board as a realistic thing.

I'm going to work up a drawing once I get the new scorpius and can tear it completely apart and really study the plate with calipers.

dmw · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 08:09:59 »

Quote from: chimera15;197125

I don't see a bloody metal plate being the the most expensive part of this board as a realistic thing..

This was my experience as well when I was researching how to build a plate for my keyboard. One possibility is to find a place like Tech Shop near you. They have all the equipment. You can learn and do it yourself! I've been wanting to try this place for a while.

chimera15 · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 08:13:34 »

Quote from: dmw;197131

This was my experience as well when I was researching how to build a plate for my keyboard. One possibility is to find a place like Tech Shop near you. They have all the equipment. You can learn and do it yourself! I've been wanting to try this place for a while.

My mother just sent me this link.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/archive/index.php/t-92.html

I haven't finished reading through it. I'm going to go to lowes and see if they have anything at all, they should have some sheet metal at least I can practice different things with.

Interesting there actually is one of those tech shops in north carolina. Might take a few hours to get to it, but if it saves me $ it might be worth it.

lowpoly · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 08:26:33 »

Quote from: chimera15;197125

Hmm, what material? Something hard huh? I just talked with Mchnichols:

http://www.mcnichols.com/ecommerce/eos/stocklist?navCode=cc:square&navCode=avc:aluminum

Even though they sell huge plates of pre punched materials like this, for around $100, they said it would be in the thousands of dollars to make a custom plate 11x4".

The custom plate would be so expensive because they probably need a tool to punch all the holes at once. Which would be kind of complex.

For a DIY solution using a spindle press it could look like this for ex.:

Has to be made from a steel that can be hardened.

chimera15 · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 10:08:48 »

So I went to Lowe's. I found a sheet of aluminum there the same thickness as the steel plate from an alps board for $10. Pretty expensive for a raw sheet of metal. Now all I have to do is to figure out how to punch holes in it, and round the edges. The steel plates were either too thick, or too thin. I think the aluminum sheet should be super relatively easy to punch holes in than steel.

Quote from: lowpoly;197137

The custom plate would be so expensive because they probably need a tool to punch all the holes at once. Which would be kind of complex.

For a DIY solution using a spindle press it could look like this for ex.:

Show Image

Has to be made from a steel that can be hardened.

So basically you're saying I need two square hardened steel cubes, that I can't get in the first place. lol I actually have a lot of chisels from stone sculpting that could probably be diamond sharpened into the square shape, but no idea where I'd get the part with the hole in it.

So assuming I do each hole by hand, and can actually line them up precisely, it's 63 or 64 holes. That means if each one takes me a minute to line up and punch it'll take me an hour to do each metal plate, that's pretty sucky.

What acid eats aluminum? lol

http://www.scifun.org/CHEMWEEK/Aluminum/ALUMINUM.html

"Therefore, aluminum will dissolve in hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide solutions."

roflol That might be a way, but the holes might not be precise enough....

Hydrocloric acid is fairly common isn't it?

Oh right it's in our stomachs.

"With major production starting in the Industrial Revolution, hydrochloric acid is used in the chemical industry as a chemical reagent in the large-scale production of vinyl chloride for PVC plastic, and MDI/TDI for polyurethane. It has numerous smaller-scale applications, including household cleaning, production of gelatin and other food additives, descaling, and leather processing. About 20 million metric tons of hydrochloric acid are produced annually."

Oh darn it's a controlled substance since people use it to produce Meth and junk...darnit.

Durham, NC is 3 hours away from me, that actually might be an option. Do they have day memberships? lol

http://www.icctool.com/webdoc20.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/SQUARE-STAR-DECORATIVE-JEWELRY-STAMP-PRESS-DIE-SET-TOOL-/360258218813?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e1102b3d

chimera15 · « **Reply #29 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 10:51:17 »

This is what Scott from Techshop wrote me back when I explained what I was looking for:

Sounds like a real possibility:

Hi Phil,

Sounds like a good job for the ShopBot computer controlled router or the CNC milling machine. Either might work depending on the thickness and material of the metal plate. Aluminum would be better to work with.

We would make it for you or teach you to use the machines and while I cannot guarantee anything without seeing actual drawings, I can't imagine it would ever cost thousands. Hundreds maybe yes, but thousands sounds too high to me for one keyboard sized plate.

Let me know how you want to proceed.

Thanks,

Scott

dmw · « **Reply #30 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 10:56:55 »

A machine shop I talked to a few years ago quoted me $250 for a backplate for my HumbleHacker keyboard. I opted instead to have the case done in plastic by Shapeways for about the same amount. It's working pretty well. I plan to hand cut a steel bottom plate, to add weight and a bit more rigidity.

chimera15 · « **Reply #31 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 11:33:18 »

Yeah it's pretty insane for just a metal plate. It really doubly makes me wonder how ione can do it for $60, they must be taking a loss selling at that price, no matter how you look at it.

itlnstln · « **Reply #32 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 11:37:47 »

Consider that they have their own machinery and buy steel in bulk (probably lower-grade steel at that). Efficiencies in scale can dramatically affect price.

chimera15 · « **Reply #33 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 11:40:58 »

I asked Scott, but I don't know if he's going to be willing to help me since I haven't bought a membership yet. lol Anyone know how to produce a drawing for a cnc machine to operate on? I might as well just make a drawing that will work directly with cnc if I need to, instead of wasting my time getting everything right in a raster program or something.

chimera15 · « **Reply #34 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 11:47:56 »

This is interesting:

http://www.omwcorp.com/partdesign.html

I like that one part that has cut away corners. I wonder if that would work with alps or cherries, I think it would? That would possibly save a lot of money according to that article. How important are square corners for holding switches, I think not very?

lowpoly · « **Reply #35 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 12:37:27 »

Quote from: chimera15;197163

So basically you're saying I need two square hardened steel cubes, that I can't get in the first place. lol I actually have a lot of chisels from stone sculpting that could probably be diamond sharpened into the square shape, but no idea where I'd get the part with the hole in it.

I said it would be the cheapest method, not the fastest. :-)

Punching the holes is much quicker, couple of seconds. You also need some time to draw or print the holes on the metal sheet. And find some kind of alignment for each row. After that it's just move, aim/test, punch.

The material for the tools - most metal shops should have that.

But it doesn't look like it's the best solution here. Did you try emachineshop? The software can give you an immediate quote, I think.

lowpoly · « **Reply #36 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 12:42:36 »

Quote from: ripster;197231

I'm not an expert here but I would think you need sharpened edges for a clean punch. Even a Greenlee isn't cheap and they make thousands of the suckers.

When I used a spindle press back then, the tools were not sharpened. But the parts were probably a bit smaller.

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #37 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 13:18:58 »

I'm still for the drill + dremel + files solution!
I think it's doable in like 3-5 hours...

itlnstln · « **Reply #38 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 13:20:52 »

Quote from: TheSoulhunter;197263

I think it's doable in like 3-5 hours...

Ouch. The only things I like to do for that amount of time is disc golf and sex.

chimera15 · « **Reply #39 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 13:34:24 »

Just got the scorpius. Proceeding to disassemble. It's all coming together today. lol

Melissa from Signature plastics wrote me. I wrote back and showed her my preliminary layout and asked if it'd be possible to do for under $100. She hasn't written me back yet. roflol

Are there other cap makers like Signature Plastics if they tell me to go pack it, or just ignore me? lol

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #40 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 14:21:11 »

Quote from: itlnstln;197264

Ouch. The only things I like to do for that amount of time is disc golf and sex.

Well, I do stuff like this 7h per day, 5-6 days per week, for a living!

The drill, mill, file thing...
Not the disc golf and sex, unfortunately

itlnstln · « **Reply #41 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 14:24:13 »

It's one thing when you're getting paid for it.

chimera15 · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 14:46:05 »

Still no word from SP.

Bag o blue cherries:

This may be why ione and scorpius m10's get such bad reputations, the pcb wire is missing, and solder is used to fill the gap, just waiting to fail:

On a brand new board.

It's a real shame I can't use this plate. The plate is perfect except for the right shift, which is in precisely the wrong place for me to put a shrunken right shift and another arrow key. If it wasn't for that one bad section I could cut down the plate and use it as is. The only difference in the layout would be that the capslock would become burried, and I'd go with the control in the proper place, alt in the lower left, and the 2 function keys, and then I'd move the \| key up above the enter and keep the enter key non l shaped.

All in all as I've desoldered probably 20 alps boards, this was much easier. No bent pins to worry about, and there was a lot of gap between the board and the pin of the cherry, so the instant the desolderer hit the pin it was pretty free. That's why they used so much solder, because there's such a huge gap for the pins.

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 14:47:07 »

True, and my view on it is probably very biased for mentioned reason...
Just wanted to point out that he could be already done, considering how long it seems to take finding a different method! :/

chimera15 · « **Reply #44 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 14:52:46 »

Quote from: TheSoulhunter;197291

True, and my view on it is probably very biased for mentioned reason...
Just wanted to point out that he could be already done, considering how long it seems to take finding a different method! :/

I want to be able to produce these en masse, so that anyone interested can buy them in kit form. The idea is to keep my workload down because I'm also trying to finish college. I also want to circumvent the process of trying to get a loan/backer that apparently Lowpoly had a problem with. I'm not making dozens of these by myself with my own man hours. I did that as a sculptor and it was total crap. I'm trying to find the cheapest and most cost effective production methods possible so that you all could potentially buy one, or put one together yourself using my methods if you want to collect the parts yourself for much less than a hhkb. That will take a lot of man hours up front, for hopefully lots of savings later on for everyone. I'm doing this during my short summer vacation and trying to make as much headway as possible.

chimera15 · « **Reply #45 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:22:45 »

This looks interesting....smallish holes, but potential.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roper-Whitney-5-Jr-Hand-Punch-Kit-/120463931715?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c0c35b943

I could potentially punch 4 small holes, then just cut the pieces that would be left in between.....that might work if the cnc thing turns out to be too expensive.

chimera15 · « **Reply #46 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:44:17 »

Melissa wrote me back!

Phil-

A blank set of keys is definitely cheaper than a printed set. For one complete set of blanks, the price would be $95 - not including shipping. A fully printed set (not including any of the front print I see below) would be around $190. My only concern would be the 'J shaped' enter key - I need to check with production to see if we can make one the size you have listed below. However if you are open to modification, I can send you a list of the sizes we have.

Let me know if you have any questions or if you need any other information.

Thanks!

Melissa
Signature Plastics LLC

It's looking right now like it's possible, but the overall cost of the board is looking like it's going to be close to $400 if I can't get the cost of the caps down, which is far over what I was hoping for.

There's the possibility I could use the letter/number set from the scorpius, and just get the special keys from SP. I'm asking that question right now. That would significantly help the cost.

itlnstln · « **Reply #47 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:46:52 »

Damn, $95 for a set of blanks. That's dumb. I mean, Unicomp sells them for $20 (which you might even be able to argue is high itself). They can't just throw a few caps in bag and send them your way for around $20?

lowpoly · « **Reply #48 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:47:29 »

Quote from: chimera15;197306

This looks interesting....smallish holes, but potential.

Check with seller how far away from the edge you can punch.

chimera15 · « **Reply #49 on:** Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:55:03 »

Quote from: lowpoly;197317

Check with seller how far away from the edge you can punch.

It said 3 and some inches in another auction, which would be fine considering the board will only be about 4 inches wide.

News:

Author Topic: Scratch Build mini (Read 41020 times)