Author Topic: Instructions: removing alps switch ("gray alps") (Read 27768 times)

wellington1869 · « **on:** Tue, 09 December 2008, 20:57:25 »

Some macro pics and instructions based on my attempt to remove an alps switch (in preparation for a future project where I swap out these clickless gray alps switches for clicky white alps from a donor board).

"Gray" alps (actually "gray strongmans") is my term for what I found on my smk85 bought off DSI's ebay store. The price was right, and I was expecting white alps (because thats what they told me on email) but instead I received what I call gray alps. These switches appear to be like white alps in every way except one: they dont click. This has happened before with these smk85's from DSI as reported by the geekhack hive mind.

I decided to keep it anyway since I rather like them. However I'm going to also give myself the option to swap these out with white alps. There are detailed instructions on how to open up cherry switches, but I didnt find any for alps, so thought I'd post this here.

You may also be interested in this thread, which provides additional links to obscure websites (courtesy of Chloe, who else?) showing alps switch mechanism details. Another thread with similar links is here.

I'm leaving these images at a "huge size" to maximize clarity. And now for the pics:

With keys off (not difficult with a good keypuller, two paperclips on either side of the switch works too, with alps keys you have to yank quite hard) you can see what I mean here about "gray" alps (er, strongmans). These are not white, as far as I can see.

Take a small screwdriver, note the place to insert it is near the top of the switch (not bottom like cherries). You'll be doing the same on the back side (north side) of the switch. You can either use two screwdrivers simultaneously, or just one at a time.

Note the "tab" (which is like the whole front of the switch) and how far apart it moves. Same for back side.

Another view showing both tabs being pushed apart with two screwdrivers at same time

The switch at this point can be pulled upwards while the tabs are apart. Its not particularly difficult, though you will have to make sure both tabs are indeed spread apart at the same time.

Note the importance of being gentle. You may want to put electrical tape on your screwdriver tips. The plastic here is very soft and mars very easily, as you can see. I hardly used any pressure at all

Whats left in the keyboard backplate is the spring (which stands vertically of course, here it has fallen over) and the actual contact point which is the metal piece at the back (north side) of the switch which you can see in the pic (and which I dont need to mess with in any way here, it doesnt affect click or tactile feel AFAIK.)

So here's the top part of the switch that we just removed, and this top part is what we're interested in. It has two pieces in it: the plastic plunger (in this case, gray) and the click leaf (which is a metal leaf that controls tactile bump as well as click). If you want "purely linear and silent" alps, just toss that leaf (it slides out).

This is the click/bump leaf (taken out)

In the switch, the plunger and click leaf stand on top of each other like in the pic here. The plunger descends (south) past the bent end in the metal leaf, providing the tactile bump. One of the links in the geekhack threads I linked to above shows how the click works, in my case there does not appear to be a click part.

Thats it for now...

[update: with practice, I now have a method I call the "insert-2-screwdrivers-and-wiggle-them-both method". Basically when you have the two screwdrivers in the two tabs, if you wiggle both forward and back (north-south) at the same time, the alps switch works its way upwards and out, you can pull it out with your fingers at that point. Eliminates need for pliers or tweezers to pull the switch up and out. Here is video of that procedure

lowpoly · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 04:57:58 »

Thanks for posting this. So unlike Cherries you can open backplate supported Alps switches.

Chloe · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 04:59:14 »

Thanks for the photos.

It looks really fiddly to me, I think I'd rather desolder them if I could.

lam47 · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 05:42:32 »

Even if you de solder you have to go through the same process. Only the switch wont stay still as you try to open it.
Its much easier to leave it attached.
Oh and whites are the same as this but with another metal part on the other side for the click.

Chloe · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 05:49:16 »

I was thinking of swapping the entire switch module, not the leaf or stem.

itlnstln · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 06:13:05 »

Thanks!!! That is a big help, but I guess it should have been intuitive.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 10:47:02 »

Quote from: lowpoly;14116

Thanks for posting this. So unlike Cherries you can open backplate supported Alps switches.

yes it makes them so much more home-serviceable

It also means you can swap out different alps and strongmans *so* easily on a board.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 10:48:33 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14123

Thanks!!! That is a big help, but I guess it should have been intuitive.

lol maybe, but I've destroyed so many switches already trying to rip them out that I thought I'd go super slow and careful with this one. (One part that wasnt intuitive for me anyway -- that the tab is at the top of the switch and not the bottom (cherries for instance has the tab at bottom of switch). Before lam's instructions (which got me going) I kept trying to yank the bottom of the switch out! Didnt even notice the tab at the top (or that it moves that far away from the switch).

wellington1869 · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 10:49:15 »

Quote from: Chloe;14121

I was thinking of swapping the entire switch module, not the leaf or stem.

but wouldnt that be redundant? I'm not sure what you would get by swapping the bottom of the case if the bottoms are identical. (or are they?).

Chloe · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 10:53:06 »

I think it would be quicker to swap the switches that way than to take each one apart separately, twice over because of two sets of switches.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 11:20:47 »

Quote from: lam47;14119

Oh and whites are the same as this but with another metal part on the other side for the click.

interesting - so its that other metal part thats missing in these switches, but they do come with tactile bump part. I had no idea there was another skywalker, er, strongman, other than the black and white. So if someone wants silent whites, this is the switch to get (cuz it retains the tactile bump which is nice).

Without the click, the gray alps (er, strongmans) are like a "muscular brown cherry". I like them a lot, they really grew on me to the point where decided to keep the board even though it wasnt what I had ordered

lowpoly · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 11:21:08 »

De-soldering can be nasty.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 11:25:55 »

Quote from: Chloe;14159

I think it would be quicker to swap the switches that way than to take each one apart separately, twice over because of two sets of switches.

I see your point. If you're comfortable with a soldering iron I suppose it may be quicker that way (only 2 pins on the alps, right?). Where I am right now I dont even have space for a decent soldering station... and the above is something I can do leisurely on my bed while watching family guy

I should say though that with just a little practice I do think its possible to yank out these switches with a screw driver at a rate of about 3 seconds each

Like the guy in that youtube video did with a single screwdriver in his hand.

itlnstln · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 11:26:33 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14168

interesting - so its that other metal part thats missing in these switches, but they do come with tactile bump part. I had no idea there was another skywalker, er, strongman, other than the black and white. So if someone wants silent whites, this is the switch to get (cuz it retains the tactile bump which is nice).

See this:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm

In the clicky Alps, the tactlie peice is not affixed to the casing at the top, so as the key is pressed, the metal bends away from the case, and as the slider goes over the bump, the metal piece snaps back against the case creating the click. On the non-clickly Alps, the metal piece is affixed to the top of the casing not allowing it to flex as the key is pressed.

lowpoly · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 11:35:57 »

Quote

(only 2 pins on the alps, right?)

Many have an integrated bridge, thus 4 pins.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 11:51:49 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14172

See this:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm

In the clicky Alps, the tactlie peice is not affixed to the casing at the top, so as the key is pressed, the metal bends away from the case, and as the slider goes over the bump, the metal piece snaps back against the case creating the click. On the non-clickly Alps, the metal piece is affixed to the top of the casing not allowing it to flex as the key is pressed.

I see!!! So basically the difference between click and non clicky is what kind of metal leaf they've stuck in there. So only need to swap that leaf.

It also means: probably very easy to *modulate* the volume of the click by either reducing the leaf spring tension or sticking something (electrical tape?) to the inside of the casing where the leaf spring hits the casing.

itlnstln · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 12:19:07 »

I am not sure if it is the leaf itself or how it's attached to the casing. Let us know what you find out.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 12:27:11 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14181

I am not sure if it is the leaf itself or how it's attached to the casing. Let us know what you find out.

From the pics on that link i'm pretty sure its a different leaf. I'll compare when my mk96 arrives.

kodos96 · « **Reply #18 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 17:08:36 »

Whoa, thanks for the pics! This is exactly what I was hoping to find when I started that thread a couple days ago.

Quote from: wellington1869;14084

These switches appear to be like white alps in every way except one: they dont click.

If that's true, then these sounds like EXACTLY what I'm looking for, since I love the feel of the white alps in my Evolution, but need to get it quieter.... I was originally going to try putting in black alps, but was scared off by the descriptions of their 'rough', 'gritty' feel... wellington, have you tried blacks before? And would you agree that they feel rough in comparison to whites? But not these grays?

If so, would you by any chance be willing to sell me the grays once you have them removed? I'd trade you my whites for them

wellington1869 · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 18:39:35 »

Quote from: kodos96;14228

Whoa, thanks for the pics! This is exactly what I was hoping to find when I started that thread a couple days ago.

seems like everyone's attention has turned to the alps all of a sudden lol

Quote

If that's true, then these sounds like EXACTLY what I'm looking for, since I love the feel of the white alps in my Evolution, but need to get it quieter....

then you should also check out itln's thread here: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1126

I agree that these are pretty neat. I too wanted something not loud, and these really feel exactly like white alps without the click. They still bottom out though and if you want to tamp that noise down too then see itln's thread... but I would say these grays are really not that loud at all, while retaining a great tactile feel.

Quote

I was originally going to try putting in black alps, but was scared off by the descriptions of their 'rough', 'gritty' feel... wellington, have you tried blacks before? And would you agree that they feel rough in comparison to whites?

that was definitely my experience with the blacks ('rough and gritty'), I didnt like them. That said, a lot of other folks around here seem to love them (and even deny that they are rough!). So go figure... I didnt like them much...

Quote

But not these grays?

nope, not the grays

I'm pretty happy about that. The grays are similar to the strongman whites I tried on the macally TP2 (but without the click).
Supposedly real alps are the smoothest of all, but I dont know if real alps comes in this 'gray' style or not. However if you have the time to mess around with it, you could always get a real alps board and then swap the metal leaf from the grays.

Quote

If so, would you by any chance be willing to sell me the grays once you have them removed? I'd trade you my whites for them

If I wind up not keeping the grays, I will definitely sell them to you. I still have to make up my mind about that (i ordered a mk96 with 'real' white alps, it hasnt arrived yet). Once it arrives I have to figure out if I prefer the grays (and if the whites are too loud or not). I'll definitely let you know.

Its funny that no one seems to know how to buy the grays. Most boards do not specify what style alps they have (for instance, I'm wondering if the micro connectors board (there's one on ebay for $25 shipped right now) has grays, because the two reviews of it I read described it as alps but much quieter than the TP2, which sounds suspiciously like grays, but who knows?). On geekhack, both documented instances of grays were acquired by accident (ie, I was expecting whites; so was sf-applet who also got them unexpectedly (via same way I did - the dsi store on ebay while ordering an smk-85). I suppose one way to try to buy grays would be to call DSI and ask for them specifically, but then I did that and they said these were whites so I dont think they actually know what they're selling!)

wellington1869 · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 18:49:23 »

Quote from: kodos96;14228

I'd trade you my whites for them

I missed that -- gosh darn it, now you tell me! I just paid for the mk96 last night!

But I guess it wouldnt have worked though because I wanted to do a side by side comparison of grays and whites at the same time...

alpslover · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 19:30:00 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14230

Its funny that no one seems to know how to buy the grays. Most boards do not specify what style alps they have (for instance, I'm wondering if the micro connectors board (there's one on ebay for $25 shipped right now) has grays, because the two reviews of it I read described it as alps but much quieter than the TP2, which sounds suspiciously like grays, but who knows?).

i have a zeos keyboard that has these grey fake alps switches, but they're click tactile - very loud and very tactile.

so yet again, the color of alps (and alps-like) stems doesn't mean a whole lot.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 19:40:25 »

Quote

so yet again, the color of alps (and alps-like) stems doesn't mean a whole lot.

thats a pity... makes it so much harder getting what you want (once you've spent all that time figuring out what you want)

kodos96 · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 19:42:38 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14231

I missed that -- gosh darn it, now you tell me! I just paid for the mk96 last night! But I guess it wouldnt have worked though because I wanted to do a side by side comparison of grays and whites at the same time...

Yeah, and I probably wouldn't have wanted to start pulling mine out till I had the replacements in hand, so a straight swap would have been a hassle anyway.

But yeah, if you do end up deciding not to keep the grays, PM me and I'll totally buy them.

alpslover · « **Reply #24 on:** Wed, 10 December 2008, 20:07:27 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14174

I see!!! So basically the difference between click and non clicky is what kind of metal leaf they've stuck in there. So only need to swap that leaf.

it depends on the design of the leaf. the click tactile grey fake alps switches on my zeos keyboard have a very different leaf design, so the top part of the switch casing which holds the leaf in place is different as well. not really a big deal to swap those though.

also, there are differences in the springs. i think if you get your hands on enough donor keyboards with different alps(-like) switches, and do some parts swapping you could probably create an alps switch that you'll like.

itlnstln · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 11 December 2008, 05:57:22 »

Quote

I was originally going to try putting in black alps, but was scared off by the descriptions of their 'rough', 'gritty' feel... wellington, have you tried blacks before? And would you agree that they feel rough in comparison to whites?

that was definitely my experience with the blacks ('rough and gritty'), I didnt like them. That said, a lot of other folks around here seem to love them (and even deny that they are rough!). So go figure... I didnt like them much...

I just got one of my NIB Dells, and they do not have that same gritty feel that my first two had. I think the seller several of us bought from awhile back had some dirty 'boards. I am going to post more in my original review of the Dell AT101W. Bottom line: do not be afraid of the non-clicky Alps. They type and feel great, just no click.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 11 December 2008, 12:43:27 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14253

I just got one of my NIB Dells, and they do not have that same gritty feel that my first two had. I think the seller several of us bought from awhile back had some dirty 'boards. I am going to post more in my original review of the Dell AT101W. Bottom line: do not be afraid of the non-clicky Alps. They type and feel great, just no click.

this brings up the question of what is the difference between grays and blacks? (I've asked that on your re-review thread

)

itlnstln · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 11 December 2008, 13:18:19 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14277

this brings up the question of what is the difference between grays and blacks? (I've asked that on your re-review thread )

Looking at the guts in your pics, and the guts of the Dell's switches here: http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm (in the first two pics, is the leaf on the bottom right), probably nothing unless there is a little diffrence in the resistance of the metal due to thickness.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 11 December 2008, 13:36:39 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14281

Looking at the guts in your pics, and the guts of the Dell's switches here: http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm (in the first two pics, is the leaf on the bottom right), probably nothing unless there is a little diffrence in the resistance of the metal due to thickness.

If i'm looking at the right pic, the only differences I can see are:
1) blacks: leaf is silver metal, possibly slightly thicker; grays: leaf is gold colored metal, possibly slightly thinner. Thickness is hard to read. My gray's leaf felt pretty thin.
2) one construction difference, is that the "brace" on mine is a single piece bend in the metal, and on the blacks it is "two pieces" or "two bent wings". On the blacks also those wings are further apart (on the grays the wing only goes up about 3/4 of the way). Small difference but may add to minute difference in feel.

Looking at those differences, if the gray leaf is slightly thinner, and its brace goes up 3/4 of the way only, then its maybe a touch more flexible, and then maybe that means the tactile bump is a touch less pronounced. Based on that I'd say the blacks might feel just a touch stiffer, though whether thats something noticeable or not I wouldnt know unless I had them both in front of me... On the gritty black board I had, the blacks /were/ stiffer than the whites (where the grays felt pretty much like the whites). But of course that might have been the grit.

itlnstln · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 11 December 2008, 13:41:26 »

I would defintely say the stiffness was due to the grit. Comparing may 'boards side by side, there is no difference in stiffness.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #30 on:** Thu, 11 December 2008, 20:38:25 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14286

I would defintely say the stiffness was due to the grit. Comparing may 'boards side by side, there is no difference in stiffness.

alright now I'm going to have to buy a dell blacks board and retry. When I go broke, itln, its you i'm blaming

Actually I'm torn about ordering the blacks. Granted its only about $20 or less, shipped. But I think I can guess what black alps are like at this point. The only reason for me to buy that board would be to stick white alps into it (so I have a normal layout with white alps - unlike the mk96's wacky layout). On the other hand, I can already do that with my smk85 (ie, stick white alps into it). And I prefer the smk85's compact layout. So I'm not sure there's any compelling reason left for me to get yet another board.

The only other reason to get it would be to compare blacks and grays side by side. But again I think they will probably be very similar (I still think grays will be just slightly lighter in touch, but who knows). But the difference wont be big enough to warrant a switch between grays and blacks. If anything I'd go from grays to whites, but not to blacks.

So I think I'll stick with my smk85 layout and its grays. I may swap it to whites (and sell the gray leafs to anyone if they want) but I dont think I'll go with blacks either way.

By the way I'm still *loving* the grays. I'll keep them if whites turn out to be too loud.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 01:08:21 »

By the way, I just discovered something else about these smk-85's from dsi. Some of the keyswitch casings are, shall we say, not necessarily in the best shape. I found a couple of casings where, for instance, one of the tabs was missing a small piece. The switch and key is stable and its nothing you'd notice when typing, but if you take off the keys you may see stuff like that, apparently. So basically one shouldnt expect perfection on these dsi refurbished boards I guess.
I still think its a good deal simply because where are you going to get a tiny compact spacesaver layout with alps for about $50 these days. (And with white alps if they get it right, to boot). Some day I'll upgrade to the $150 filco white alps board.

This will be fine till then I guess

xsphat · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 01:36:10 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14322

By the way I'm still *loving* the grays. I'll keep them if whites turn out to be too loud.

We all warned you, the Alps whites are the loudest key switch. They are positively loud as f*ck.

xsphat · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 01:37:10 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14373

Some day I'll upgrade to the $150 filco white alps board.

So will I, the second week of Feb.

itlnstln · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 06:07:54 »

Quote from: xsphat;14374

We all warned you, the Alps whites are the loudest key switch. They are positively loud as f*ck.

QFT (read: Quite Fu*king True).

skriefal · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 08:25:26 »

The white alps switches are quieter than the buckling spring boards I've used...

itlnstln · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 08:34:44 »

Quote from: skriefal;14383

The white alps switches are quieter than the buckling spring boards I've used...

I would strongly disagree (except in the case of the Apple and Toshiba 'boards with the rubber dampers), but YMMV based on the 'board's case construction. The tactile click is quieter, but the clacking of the slider on the bottoming and topping out is by far louder than my Moder Ms.

bigpook · « **Reply #37 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 08:40:16 »

Quote from: xsphat;14374

We all warned you, the Alps whites are the loudest key switch. They are positively loud as f*ck.

wow, they are louder then BS keys?
that would be quite a racket : )

I hope to find out soon, am waiting on crescent to tell me when they have the 'board for shipping.

itlnstln · « **Reply #38 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 08:55:41 »

My Northgate is magntudes louder than my Model Ms, but my Dell is only a little louder. Much of the sound, IMO, comes from the case construction. The Northgate is all steel, so there is some resonance due to that, while the Dell is all plastic, so it is more inert.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #39 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 10:28:35 »

Louder than a Model M? Hmm. Looks like I might have to learn to like Cherry blues, on lowpoly's board design - I definitely wouldn't want anything louder than an M.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 12:49:23 »

Quote

Much of the sound, IMO, comes from the case construction

qft, given any switch I've seen boards that are more loud or less loud or even have different tonalities, all based on the case/keycaps in which they're put into.

I didnt think the tp2 with white strongmans was all that loud but then I havent tried it at home yet, only in the store.
Also there are various ways to tamp down noise if thats the only concern. Itln is doing a noise-tamping expierment with alps right now. With BS you can always grease the springs, it does work. (edit: with bs I believe you can also put a rubber washer around the plunger to reduce or eliminate bottoming clack; i'm going to try that experiment in a few weeks).

skriefal · « **Reply #41 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 20:55:09 »

Quote from: itlnstln;14384

I would strongly disagree (except in the case of the Apple and Toshiba 'boards with the rubber dampers), but YMMV based on the 'board's case construction. The tactile click is quieter, but the clacking of the slider on the bottoming and topping out is by far louder than my Moder Ms.

Most of my "M" experience is with a relatively recent (2003) Unicomp-built M. That's easily the loudest keyboard I've used -- of any type. The white Alps-based boards that I've used are all audibly quieter -- Northgate Omnikey 102 and 101P, DSI SMK-85, Focus FK-9000, etc. Not saying that they're quiet... just that they're not as loud as this M.

The case and keycap materials may indeed play into that these results. But the switch noise (without bottoming out the keys) is still louder on this M than on the other Alps boards I've used.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #42 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 21:49:06 »

Quote from: skriefal;14501

Most of my "M" experience is with a relatively recent (2003) Unicomp-built M. That's easily the loudest keyboard I've used -- of any type.
The case and keycap materials may indeed play into that these results. But the switch noise (without bottoming out the keys) is still louder on this M than on the other Alps boards I've used.

ya, unicomp boards in my experience too have the loudest bottoming clack I've ever heard. Thats one of the things I dont like about them as compared to regular M's

fkeidjn · « **Reply #43 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 21:55:39 »

Quote from: wellington1869;14510

ya, unicomp boards in my experience too have the loudest bottoming clack I've ever heard. Thats one of the things I dont like about them as compared to regular M's

I think the loudness comes from the thinner plastic (ex. Lexmark's downgraded BS keyboards, later adopted by Unicomp), which has more sound conductivity (conceptually) than a thick piece of plastic (the original IBM model M, their respective molds mysteriously missing). I find the model F though to be the least loud and most audibly pleasing of the BS keyboards (my only beef being that I don't like the layout).

wellington1869 · « **Reply #44 on:** Fri, 12 December 2008, 23:58:01 »

Quote from: fkeidjn;14517

I think the loudness comes from the thinner plastic (ex. Lexmark's downgraded BS keyboards, later adopted by Unicomp), which has more sound conductivity (conceptually) than a thick piece of plastic (the original IBM model M, their respective molds mysteriously missing). I find the model F though to be the least loud and most audibly pleasing of the BS keyboards (my only beef being that I don't like the layout).

hey, are you interested in selling your model F (or swapping it for something)? (EDIT: nevermind! I just noticed the alt key location and its not a board I could use with my autohotkey file..)

bhtooefr · « **Reply #45 on:** Sat, 13 December 2008, 00:55:04 »

You know, I was looking for a post I had made about a keyboard that I thought had blue Cherry MX switches (and found out today that I was mistaken...) and found this.

Quote from: iMav

We may not be able to shape the keyboard market...but at least we can help put quality keyboards in each others' hands.

And look at this thread, we're about to shape the keyboard market.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #46 on:** Sat, 13 December 2008, 14:42:32 »

so while dsi was incommunicado the whole time I was trying to email them about exchanging this board, suddenly today I received in the mail a UPS shipping label from them. (So apparently someone had been reading my emails to them after all. dont know why they didnt bother replying!). So now I have the option of a paid return shipping label if I want to just return this. I am torn.
Pros:
1) Layout is nice, compact. I can always swap out these alps for blacks or white and retain this layout.
2) I still like the grays a lot. They're still novel to me.
Cons:
1) In a few days I will have both black and white alps to compare grays with. Those might be novel too

2) In a few days I'll have a full size layout (at101) if I want that over spacesaver. When I returned to the M recently the full size didnt bother me like I thought it might. I kind of liked having the numberpad again (which tho I dont use much, when I do use, I'm glad its there and I enjoy it). So I can also stick whites, grays, or blacks, into the at101 layout.

So I am torn because I dont yet know which alps switch I want to keep, or even which layout I want to keep. I hope the other alps boards arrive in a few days so I can make up my mind and then decide on whether or not I'm going to return this one.

As far as the gray switches themselves, having typed on them for a few days:

Pros: I do love the grays. I type really well on them and effortlessly. I like that they have more resistance than cherries (and less than BS).

Cons: While resistance is at the right level, I would like it if they were slightly noisier (ie, more audible feedback). This is why I'm thinking I will like the whites more, in the end. So just like the way I found a good balance in terms of key resistance, I'm still searching for a good balance in terms of audible feedback. I can always tamp down white alps volume a bit, but one cant really 'ramp up' silent switch volume.

Also, on the compact layout, I do find myself hitting adjacent keys more often that I do on a full size board. So maybe the dell at101 layout is more suited to me, I dont know yet.

If I can decide in the next week, I guess, then I could return this...

kodos96 · « **Reply #47 on:** Mon, 15 December 2008, 13:25:52 »

Ok, so these last few days of ALPS-related threads have gotten me a bit confused - just to clarify and make sure I have all this recent info sorted out in my head - the gray alps DON'T have rubber dampers in the sliders - that was an entirely separate issue, correct? The grays are quieter just due to a different leaf spring, right? So would I be correct in assuming that their bottoming/topping out noise is just as loud as whites, it's only the click that's quieter?

Which boards/switches DO have the rubber dampers in them?

And is it now the consensus that the previous consensus on black alps ("rough and gritty") was just due to a dirty batch from one particular ebay seller, that black alps are not necesarily rough?

kodos96 · « **Reply #48 on:** Mon, 15 December 2008, 13:37:51 »

On an anecdotal, possibly-related note, on Friday I was in my work's datacenter, doing some work over by our core infrastructure rack, where I don't usually have occasion to be, and I noticed an old dell keyboard I'd never seen before plugged into a KVM - it looked like one of the ones that might have black alps in it... never having tried black alps before and curious to do so, I went over and typed a bit on it.... it felt nothing like my white alps - definitely not rubber membrane crap, but no click, and very little tactile response (compared to my whites anyway). That wasn't what I expected black alps to feel like, so I thought I'd try and verify what was in it... just as I started to yank at a keycap, our datacenter's ops manager walked by, and asked me what the hell I was doing. I tried to explain, but he didn't seem too interested... he pointed out, in a not particularly friendly tone, that a stray keystroke on that KVM could potentially bring down our entire campus network. Which is true of course.... but COME ON! Keyboard geekery is more important than that! Don't these people GET IT?

Personally, I think that if anyone ever manages to get fired over their keyboard obsession, it should qualify them for instant "Senior Member" status on geekhack

itlnstln · « **Reply #49 on:** Mon, 15 December 2008, 13:52:40 »

It must have been an Alps. The key was too hard to pull. Next time, bring a real key puller and a friend

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Author Topic: Instructions: removing alps switch ("gray alps") (Read 27768 times)