Author Topic: Mini Keyboard with Trackpoint (Read 376556 times)

Thion · « **Reply #800 on:** Thu, 15 December 2011, 17:45:38 »

Same here... the only other Trackpoint-based KB has Scissors... if this project succeeds, it'd be a huge encouragement for the modders out there.

Msan · « **Reply #801 on:** Mon, 19 December 2011, 04:31:31 »

If this thing doesn't go on sale in 2012 then it better be the end of the world. I can't withstand the wait anymore.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #802 on:** Mon, 19 December 2011, 14:00:30 »

Yea, Lowpoly's method of not being a douchebag and taking peoples money for a year or two is in stark contrast to the TE debacle. I notice how positive everyone is, supportive, and understanding as opposed to the TE fiasco.

Important comparisons.

Go Lowpoly!!!!!

sordna · « **Reply #803 on:** Mon, 19 December 2011, 14:09:22 »

Wow, 84 pages of comments. People sooooo want this. Well, at least we have another project to be excited about, that *might* get provisions for a trackpoint:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22780-Interest-Check-Custom-split-ergo-keyboard

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #804 on:** Tue, 20 December 2011, 00:27:41 »

Lowpoly is the person that told me where to get the trackpoints I used for the Split Kinesis Mod, that I told Gator456 to use for the Datahand mod, and Ricercar and Bluecar for their Kinesis mods.

Big Lowpoly fan over here.

Go Team Lowpoly!!!!!

demik · « **Reply #805 on:** Tue, 20 December 2011, 01:02:06 »

my heart beats a little faster every time i see this thread bumped

Nask · « **Reply #806 on:** Wed, 28 December 2011, 21:37:40 »

Still waiting for this keyboard ...
I hope 2012 will be a better year.

iBro · « **Reply #807 on:** Sat, 31 December 2011, 04:05:36 »

[video=youtube;sWLSKaNu3p0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLSKaNu3p0&feature=relmfu[/video]

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw that beast of a keyboard.

dotancohen · « **Reply #808 on:** Sun, 08 January 2012, 14:06:36 »

It is 2012 and I'm ready to buy! Seriously, this looks _almost_ like the keyboard of my dreams.

How many orders do you need to justify a production run? How many do you already have?

mr.greywater · « **Reply #809 on:** Sun, 15 January 2012, 04:53:28 »

I really NEED this keyboard! Is there any chance that this keyboard will be finally produced?

TheProfosist · « **Reply #810 on:** Thu, 19 January 2012, 15:44:43 »

its not looking like this is ever going to come together.

Rumudiez · « **Reply #811 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:14:23 »

is this not the guru-board? i had never heard of the brand/keyboard before so i searched it on gh and this is the number one thread, yet in my skimming of all the pages nothing is ever mentioned... http://www.guru-board.com/ no?

TheProfosist · « **Reply #812 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:25:57 »

Quote from: Rumudiez;499867

is this not the guru-board? i had never heard of the brand/keyboard before so i searched it on gh and this is the number one thread, yet in my skimming of all the pages nothing is ever mentioned... http://www.guru-board.com/ no?

nice find hopefully it comes into fruition!

sordna · « **Reply #813 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:36:53 »

Yes, this thread is about the miniguru. Welcome to the club!

Gawkbasher · « **Reply #814 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:42:04 »

Hoping this becomes a reality someday. I love mini keyboards and I love trackpoints!

My first thought ever about the HHKB was "imagine if it had a trackpoint!"

sordna · « **Reply #815 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:46:43 »

Yeah. I ended up adding extra keys and using mouskeys on my Kinesis instead. Works pretty well, I can move the pointer and click right around the home row. Best integrated mousing on a keyboard is the Fingerworks Touchstream though.

alaricljs · « **Reply #816 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:48:53 »

Quote from: sordna;499923

... is the Fingerworks Touchstream though.

You keep bringing this one up... think it's time to admit it's not a keyboard tho. It's a multi-touch pad with an useful design printed on it and really good software behind it.

sordna · « **Reply #817 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 15:52:14 »

Yes, it's a pair of touchpads. The software (or actually firmware) is amazing, you don't even need any special drivers. It would be perfect if it somehow had sculpted keys, it's hard to type accurately as it is. I got one but it's collecting dust at the moment.

o2dazone · « **Reply #818 on:** Thu, 26 January 2012, 17:07:23 »

Fingerworks is what the Apple touch technology is built off (Apple acquired them in 2005). I would totally try to snag a board, but every one I've seen on eBay goes for well over $800

Thion · « **Reply #819 on:** Fri, 27 January 2012, 09:11:14 »

lowpoly,
where did you get the Trackpoint from? IBM Spacesaver?

I'm currently thinking of modding a trackpoint into my noppoo very much the same way you did (at least i think so from looking at the photos).

Not sure about the Keys yet, maybe add some MX-Blues on the PCB where the Space Key supports are and reduce the size of the Space to 2 Units...

However, since i'm not particularly good with electronics, how hard was the modding of those? Just rip out the controller from the (Spacesaver?) and putting it in?

Or does anyone know where to get a trackpoint with a USB Controller?

jackpipe · « **Reply #820 on:** Sun, 29 January 2012, 01:43:33 »

I wish the best of luck to lowpoly getting this stunning keyboard onto the market, I'm very interesting in being able to buy one.

Just of a couple of questions about the design:

I find with the trackpoint between ghb keys, I still have to move my hand away from the home position. I can see why this design is used for all trackpoints, since it works for left- and right- handed users, but I'd much prefer a trackpoint between the hjn keys. Are there any keyboards configured this way, does it even make sense, is it a possibility for the miniguru (I assume it's not an easy customization).

I love the floating style of the case, but on the other hand, I'm very interested in the portability of a keboard like this, and the deeper metal case is perhaps not the best in that regard. What's inside the case, how deep is the minimum a keyboard like this could be? I imagine a shallower case with pop-up feet would be more portable.

Slightly O/T, I also have some ideas for a keyboard I'd like to prototype, and also perhaps look at getting it produced in larger numbers.
I'm looking at something more like the apple bluetooth keyboard, or the logitech ipad/android portable keyboards.
Perhaps not this forum's cup of tea, as it would be a chiclet/scissor board.
Are they any pointers on how to build/prototype this kind of thing, and then have them made? I'm guessing there must be some keyboard makers who do custom designs?
I'm fairly clueless on the numbers too, what is the minimum run a manufacturer might consider, what kind of numbers are needed to break even, etc? Anyone on here actually in the keyboard business?

hasu · « **Reply #821 on:** Sun, 29 January 2012, 01:58:10 »

You cannot type h key if trackpoint locates between hjn.

jackpipe · « **Reply #822 on:** Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:41:25 »

Fair point. On both an HP laptop and a thinkpad with trackpoints, I can still type a g with my right hand, if I move my right hand across one key, but I can feel the trackpoint very slightly in the way when I do it.
It might be more problematic on a mechanical keyboard.

Another question, I see the pipe and backslash key is oversized, and the right shift is larger than the left. Is there a good reason, or is this just convention? It seems to me you'd save a few mm if the |\ key was normal size and the shift/backspace/return keys were slightly shorter.

laffindude · « **Reply #823 on:** Sun, 29 January 2012, 03:51:27 »

They're standard sized Cherry keycaps. It isn't worth incurring the cost of making a new mold for those keys to save a few millimeter.

TheProfosist · « **Reply #824 on:** Tue, 31 January 2012, 00:40:48 »

Leave the keyboard as standard as possibke as more people will be interested and if you move that trackpoint i think many people wouldnt want it as its fine where it is.

lowpoly · « **Reply #825 on:** Tue, 31 January 2012, 12:17:02 »

Quote from: lowpoly;414809

Well, this is the 3rd and last try. If it stalls again I'll stop it. I have another non-keyboard related project on the horizon. This is a huge project so it's good there is something else that's stopping me from starting immediately. Maybe it will go away while I wait.

This other project didn't make it. ;-)

Quote from: JBert;415663

As such, I'd wonder if one couldn't re-use the Poker's case and switches.

For historical reasons I won't actively support any Poker hybrids. :-)

Quote from: Rumudiez;499867

is this not the guru-board? i had never heard of the brand/keyboard before so i searched it on gh and this is the number one thread, yet in my skimming of all the pages nothing is ever mentioned... http://www.guru-board.com/ no?

I'm sure the name has been discussed here. Somewhere.

Quote from: Thion;500561

lowpoly,
where did you get the Trackpoint from? IBM Spacesaver?

I'm currently thinking of modding a trackpoint into my noppoo very much the same way you did (at least i think so from looking at the photos).

Not sure about the Keys yet, maybe add some MX-Blues on the PCB where the Space Key supports are and reduce the size of the Space to 2 Units...

However, since i'm not particularly good with electronics, how hard was the modding of those? Just rip out the controller from the (Spacesaver?) and putting it in?

Or does anyone know where to get a trackpoint with a USB Controller?

It's from an IBM 8923. The TP-controller is separate from the keyboard controller. It's an old 'board so the controller is huge. See pics on first page (it's the bigger one). I had to remove and re-solder some parts to make it fit.

Quote from: jackpipe;502170

What's inside the case, how deep is the minimum a keyboard like this could be? I imagine a shallower case with pop-up feet would be more portable.

You can only make it smaller by designing a custom controller and put it on the pcb. As I plan to use the Teensy for the kit it has to have some space for this. Pointing needs space too.

Anybody familiar with flat cables and sockets? Would I need a ZIF socket for this?

The pointing stick comes with a Kyocera-ELCO 00 6222 008 101 800 connector. This one:

http://www.kyocera-elco.com/prdct/pdf/6222.pdf

It has 8 pins, 0.5mm-pitch.

I'd need an 8x 0.5mm FFC cable and an 8-pin ZIF connector, right?

alaricljs · « **Reply #826 on:** Tue, 31 January 2012, 12:22:03 »

ZIF or LIF. The ZIF is easier to connect the cable with, the LIF will be cheaper.

daerid · « **Reply #827 on:** Tue, 31 January 2012, 12:44:22 »

So what exactly is the hold up on this project? Is it the trackpoint? The case? Or just low demand, high cost?

rainb1ood · « **Reply #828 on:** Sat, 11 February 2012, 21:57:41 »

Kickstarter this project!

Cort · « **Reply #829 on:** Sun, 12 February 2012, 06:44:49 »

Quote from: rainb1ood;512199

Kickstarter this project!

Would be perfect for Kickstarter (lower pledge for self-assemble kit, higher pledge for pre-assembled, etc.), but Kickstarter only takes US projects.

mkawa · « **Reply #830 on:** Sun, 12 February 2012, 08:12:04 »

lowpoly: imo the only way this is only going to happen is if you open source the project.

i also don't really see why you would need a separate controller for the trackpoint. a teensy++ should be able to take input directly from the trackpoint device. it's hard to say though without knowing exactly what's coming out of the trackpoint. the point is there is enough expertise in the community to make this happen.

tsangan · « **Reply #831 on:** Sun, 12 February 2012, 14:34:32 »

Quote from: rainb1ood;512199

Kickstarter this project!

definitely a great idea, ever since I saw this project I keep hoping that one day it will flourish because the design is just amazing

mkawa · « **Reply #832 on:** Sun, 12 February 2012, 16:36:43 »

is the limiting factor here really money though? there's no design.

alaricljs · « **Reply #833 on:** Sun, 12 February 2012, 16:39:14 »

time=money, designs take time.

jackpipe · « **Reply #834 on:** Wed, 15 February 2012, 10:03:06 »

Kickstarter only do US projects?
What about this, about as far from a US project as you can get, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1472956791/coworking-collaboration-and-coffee-in-cambodia

devouringone3 · « **Reply #835 on:** Fri, 24 February 2012, 23:14:31 »

Cort · « **Reply #836 on:** Sat, 25 February 2012, 13:00:40 »

Quote from: jackpipe;515150

Kickstarter only do US projects?
What about this, about as far from a US project as you can get, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1472956791/coworking-collaboration-and-coffee-in-cambodia

Yeah, see here:

Quote

To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project, you need to satisfy the requirements of Amazon Payments:

I am 18 years of age or older.
I am a permanent US resident with a Social Security Number (or EIN).
I have a US address, US bank account, and US state-issued ID (driver’s license).
I have a major US credit or debit card.

I don't know how the Cambodia project did this, I guess the project starter is actually a US citizen.

J-P · « **Reply #837 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 10:02:55 »

http://www.rockethub.com/ - anyone tried that? Greets Lowpoly, are you the same LP from EP / Sijun? http://www.indiegogo.com/ accepts international funding too (I think?)

J-P · « **Reply #838 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 10:17:19 »

This one? hmm... space saver.... you're imagining things again Ripster

J-P · « **Reply #839 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 11:29:26 »

mondalaci · « **Reply #840 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 11:32:04 »

Wow, looks like Kickstarter alternavites are mushrooming nowadays.

mondalaci · « **Reply #841 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 11:50:54 »

Quote from: ripster;545800

Mondalaci - long time now see!

Thanks! Nowadays I'm way too busy partly with testing and developing our custom developed mechanical keyboard which I'm typing on now. It's truly encouraging to see these Kickstarter alternatives because that gives us, non-US folks an opportunity to bring our board to market through such a channel.

Quote from: ripster;545800

You were the FIRST to recognize that I was the Number One Keyboard Expert On the Planet and the Geekhack Community has confirmed your thesis!
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26781-Do-you-think-Ripster-is-the-1-Keyboard-Expert-on-Planet-Earth

Actually if Lowpoly had shipped this keyboard I might not have won. ;-)

It's funny because just when I was typing my previous message I took a quick look at your avatar and I could recall me making that comment and assumed that this might be the case. That being said, expert might not cut it. "Raving lunatic" might be a more appropriate title, in a good sense, of course.

sordna · « **Reply #842 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 12:07:09 »

Quote from: mondalaci;545814

Thanks! Nowadays I'm way too busy partly with testing and developing our custom developed mechanical keyboard which I'm typing on now.

Can you share details or photos of this keyboard? Does it have a trackpoint? Keys in straight columns? Anything special about it?

uberben · « **Reply #843 on:** Wed, 14 March 2012, 13:23:18 »

Quote from: J-P;545697

http://www.rockethub.com/ - anyone tried that? Greets Lowpoly, are you the same LP from EP / Sijun? http://www.indiegogo.com/ accepts international funding too (I think?)

http://www.ulule.com is another non-US option that has a model closer to that of kickstarter (ie. you only collect the money if you meet or exceede your goal).

mondalaci · « **Reply #844 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 06:12:54 »

Quote from: sordna;545829

Can you share details or photos of this keyboard? Does it have a trackpoint? Keys in straight columns? Anything special about it?

I rather wouldn't want to share pictures and detailed info yet. MOD EDIT: please do not link to your product in the general forum.

sordna · « **Reply #845 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 09:51:30 »

Ah, too bad, I might have given you improvement ideas... I've been modding my keyboards lately with ergonomic enhancements like palm keys, one of which I use to activate mousing on the keyboard, and there's other ideas I'll be implementing next.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:26579

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44268[/ATTACH]

mondalaci · « **Reply #846 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 17:59:43 »

Quote from: sordna;546661

Ah, too bad, I might have given you improvement ideas... I've been modding my keyboards lately with ergonomic enhancements like palm keys, one of which I use to activate mousing on the keyboard, and there's other ideas I'll be implementing next.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:26579

(Attachment Link) 44268[/ATTACH]

Yours is a pretty impressive hack! I'm thinking about putting together a rather small but very knowledgable mastermind group eventually to discuss such uber features before product release. Whenever this will happen I'm thinking about making group members sign an NDA or something like that because even though we'll open the design 100% upon release we'd like to reap the fruits of our labor before others might start to clone it. (Which is unlikely due to the niche nature of this board and the fact that it's considerably more expensive to manufacture than other boards because of its unique design, but still I worry a bit.)

Normally I hate NDAs but given that this board will be Open Hardware and the NDA will only last until release it shouldn't be so evil. I'm wondering whether anyone would be interested in participating this way.

RiGS · « **Reply #847 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 18:12:02 »

Haha, count me in.

sordna · « **Reply #848 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 18:18:43 »

NDA across countries might be a bit hard, unless you are okay with people's public statement on Geekhack promising they won't disclose details, or doing the same in a private email exchange.
Personally I wouldn't worry since there are already proven ideas out there, and companies just don't bother implementing them... they keep the zig-zag key arrangement instead of straight columns for example, even though straight columns is way better (look how comfortable / fast it is for accountants to type on numpads).
Another example is this mini keyboard with trackpoint, look how many people have expressed strong interest (88 pages!!!) but nobody (not even small companies like KBC/KBT that do mini keyboards) has bothered.

So an expensive non-conventional keyboard is even less likely to be cloned.

Frankly, if your design convinces real companies (especially impactful ones like Apple and Microsoft) to make a true breakthrough in keyboard design, that would be a huge win for computer users around the world.

mkawa · « **Reply #849 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 23:03:57 »

what? open hardware + NDA? what's the rationale here?

sordna: kbc has done the 60% aspect, and done it extremely well. i think the problem with the trackpoint is that you have to get the strain gauges from alps and they have some huge MOQ that makes poker-like volumes pretty much impossible; you pretty much have to be quanta and pumping out a few hundred units a minute to make it worth integrating into your design.

lowpoly alluded to something like this many pages ago.

News:

Author Topic: Mini Keyboard with Trackpoint (Read 376556 times)