geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 04 January 2012, 20:42:11
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[strike]DEADLINE: Sunday 01/15/12 11:59pm PST (time zone converter) (http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc)[/strike][CLOSED][/SIZE]
Leftover sell thread here (>> CLICK << (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?27841-O-Rings-various-sotfness-and-thickness-GB-leftovers))
I bought some O-rings for myself and sold off the extra ones I had. There were only enough for 6 people in my sell thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25462-new-O-rings-dampeners-40-durometer), so this time I'll do a mass order available to everyone interested. And this time, there will be more assortments of different sizes and softness.
Some people hate key noise, some love it. some hate the key travel reduction, others buy O-rings just for that. With so many variations on specific needs, I'll be getting many different ones. Here's what's available and a short description of its practical usage:
- base price is for tenkeyless 90 count pack, includes shipping within the US
- add $2 to base price for full size 105 count pack
- add $4 to base price for extras, 120 count pack
- add $1 to base price for international shipping
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pack A: optimal noise dampening, small key travel reduction $9
40A, 3/16 ID, 5/16 OD, 1/16 W
pack B: less noise dampening but more crisps bottom-out, small key travel reduction $13
50A, 3/16" ID, 5/16" OD, 1/16" W
pack C: optimal noise dampening, fair amount of key travel reduction $13
40A, 5mm ID, 2mm W
pack D: some noise dampening, negligible key travel reduction $13
40A, 5mm ID, 1mm W
pack E: nearly no bottom-out noise, max key travel reduction $20
40A, 3/16 ID, 3/8 OD, 3/32 W
pack F: hard bottom-out, small key travel reduction $4
70A, 3/16 ID, 5/16 OD, 1/16 W
pack G: hard bottom-out, max key travel reduction $4
70A, 3/16 ID, 3/8 OD, 3/32 W
pack H: softest bottom-out but might feel mushy, small key travel reduction $16
30A, 5mm ID, 1.5mm W
* add $1 to any pack to include "sample pack": one of each O-ring from every pack, that way you can try out how all the O-rings feel without having to buy all the packs*
NOTE: Price above include shipping from the company to me, and from me to you. So far those are the prices but it's subject to go slightly up or down, depending on quantity. shipping will be from the US in a standard envelope, it takes about 1-3 days if you're also in the US, and a little longer for international. Add an extra $1 if you're international to help cover additional shipping and associated fees. I prefer payment in paypal or amazon payment. I will add more info to this OP when it comes up
My personal review and what I thought of my first O-rings:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:25612
payment instructions: If you want to send money via amazon payment, PM me. Otherwise, send to my paypal address whitefiredragon1@hotmail.com. Please cover paypal fees (http://thefeecalculator.com/) (3% + $0.30), unless you send as "gift" payment. Include in the paypal note:
- forum name
- which pack (A, B, C, etc.), quantity
- pack size (90, 105, 120)
- shipping address
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[video=youtube_share;RJg2vDsysbA]http://youtu.be/RJg2vDsysbA[/video]
List of people participating, let me know if you change your mind before I make the order:
-[strike]sethk[/strike] (no reply)
-[strike]lootbag[/strike]
-JesuswasaZombie (paid)(shipped)
-transcend3nt (paid)(shipped)
-[strike]TheProfosist[/strike]
-Loligagger (paid)(shipped)
-o2dazone (paid)(shipped)
-duchat (paid)(shipped)
-AtL (paid)(shipped)
-trax (covered)
-sordna (paid)(shipped)
-artee (paid)(shipped)
-jonnybastard (paid)(shipped)
-aoya (paid)(shipped)
-ViciousXUSMC (paid)(shipped)
-emptyk (paid)(shipped)
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-resis (paid)(shipped)
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-jinzo.pk3 (paid)(shipped)
-Vornath (paid)(shipped)
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-hasu (paid)(shipped)
-elton5354 (paid)(shipped)
-LFF (paid)(shipped)
-Moistened (paid)(shipped)
-sordna (paid)(shipped)
-dirge (paid)(shipped)
-metafour (paid)(shipped)
-megnin (paid)(shipped)
-m_enanos (paid)(shipped)
-Gus.s (paid)(shipped)
UPDATE 01/09/12: got complete price quotes
UPDATE 01/10/12: accepting payments
UPDATE 01/13/12: half of the order placed, other half will be placed on monday
UPDATE 01/17/12: order processed, production begins
UPDATE 01/20/12: received half of the shipment, distributing packs A, E, F, G, the rest has an ETA of 2-3 weeks
UPDATE 01/27/12: received shipment for packs B, C, and the rest of E.
UPDATE 02/22/12: received the rest of the shipment (pack D and H), remaining orders and sample packs will be shipped out in the next couple days.
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this might be helpful to know:
ID = inner diameter
OD = outer diamter
W = width or thickness
1/32" = 0.79mm
1/16" = 1.59mm
5/64" = 1.98mm
3/32" = 2.38mm
3/16" = 4.76mm
5/16" = 7.94mm
3/8" = 9.53mm
TBD = to be determined
if you can't decide which pack to get, then go with either pack A or B, as they dampen noise and reduce a tiny bit of key travel. the largest "fat" O-rings (pack E or G) is the max thickness you can get without interfering with the actuation point. On my MX blues, they bottom out just after the actuation click. i have tested may times and they never bottom out before the actuation point under any circumstance. when i used double small ones, they also bottom out just at the actuation point it seems, so if you press softly enough, there might be a rare case where the key might not register.
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I could be wrong, but 1/32" has probably no effect on most keycaps. I would replace it with metric 1mm or 1.5mm in width, and 5mm in ID.
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Why do you have TBD on some of the OD ? If you know an o-ring's ID and CS (what you call W) the OD is calculated as: 2*CS + ID. The other way to put it, you don't need OD, only ID and CS are important :-)
By the way, pack D at 1/32 thickness and 3/16 ID is a non-standard size. I suspect that the (close enough) metric 1mm thickness and 5mm ID might be better and perhaps even cheaper.
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How many rings are there in a pack? 104, 105, some spare in case you break some or for exchangable keys?
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Which ones are the same as wasdkeyboard's 40A durameter dampeners?
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html
Loved the first set I bought from them, wouldn't mind another.
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These two guys just asked my two questions :)
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same here!
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pack A + pack D
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pack H was just added as another option, credit goes to sordna
Why do you have TBD on some of the OD ? If you know an o-ring's ID and CS (what you call W) the OD is calculated as: 2*CS + ID. The other way to put it, you don't need OD, only ID and CS are important :-)
By the way, pack D at 1/32 thickness and 3/16 ID is a non-standard size. I suspect that the (close enough) metric 1mm thickness and 5mm ID might be better and perhaps even cheaper.
they said it can be any size, but i guess you're right, OD doesn't really matter so i didn't calculate it myself to put in the thread. although if i wanted it more like a washer, it can have a large OD with small thickness. i'll change pack C and D to metric
How many rings are there in a pack? 104, 105, some spare in case you break some or for exchangable keys?
the first few people had packs of 105 pieces, which i figured should be enough for the full size 104 keys with extra O-ring to spare. it's more than enough for TKL. do you guys want packs of 120 instead? it might increase the price by a few cents to a dollar max
Which ones are the same as wasdkeyboard's 40A durameter dampeners?
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html
Loved the first set I bought from them, wouldn't mind another.
wasdkeyboard's 40A is pack A
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Sign me up for Pack D + Pack H + sample pack (as long as the set doesn't exceed $30).
Btw o-rings are always round. If you want it like a washer, get rubber washers! I got a couple washers as sample from somewhere, I think the material in these ones was neoprene and durometer was 40 or 50, you can see it in the below pic, one by itself, and one stacked under an o-ring within a Kinesis keycap.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36671[/ATTACH]
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I would like to get 2 packs A, 120 pcs each, if possible
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Hey, I'll please grab a pack of A and a pack of B with a sample pack to go with, will also require international post, cheers!
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Hi there,
Would like Pack H (please let me know pricing first!!) + Sample pack - international shipping
One question is that after the first batch of orders go out, is it possible to re-order again? Since you say that this is a one-off thing.
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Do you know the noise difference between pack A and pack D? They seem to be same softness, so not sure how much difference it makes.
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i updated the list of people that want o-rings. i'm still in the process of ironing out details on all the packs with the manufacturer. it takes a while with so many options, and especially since the representative doesn't answer back right away.
One question is that after the first batch of orders go out, is it possible to re-order again? Since you say that this is a one-off thing.
yes, i can do a round 2 after this first one. what do you mean by "one-off"?
Do you know the noise difference between pack A and pack D? They seem to be same softness, so not sure how much difference it makes.
ideally, they should have the same noise and dampening characteristics, but since differ in thickness, the thinner ones might not dampen as much. i personally have not tried the pack D yet, so i can't give a definite comparison. pack A and D should be the same noise dampening, but D is for those that don't want the key travel to be affected. hope that helps
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Is it easy to put the keycaps on with the pack E? You may have to press it quite hard?
Are your keys the same height as keys without o-ring?
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Is it easy to put the keycaps on with the pack E? You may have to press it quite hard?
Are your keys the same height as keys without o-ring?
pack E are the thickest ones, but it still goes on pretty easy because the rubber is pretty stretchy. you can slip them on with your fingers, but i use non-fine tweezers. it takes a second or two for each key.
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I have ordered 50A from MCMasterCar feels good but would like to try out the 40A you have in Pack A, also want to test out the shorter distance with Pack G.
Would love to try Pack E but that is kinda expensive O.o..
So put me in for an A & G
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my bad, i thought you were only doing one round. since that's the case, can i just get 1x sample pack first and i'll decide which one to get for round 2. the choices you have are crazy !!!
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So you mean that your keys on your keyboard are the same height with pack E as keys without o-ring?
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5mm ID is the biggest you can get?
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So you mean that your keys on your keyboard are the same height with pack E as keys without o-ring?
o-rings don't change the height of the keys.
5mm ID is the biggest you can get?
The keycaps stems are 5.5mm so 5mm ID is ideal. Anything bigger might slip off too easily. Besides, the well-tested -008 o-rings have an ID of 4.75 or so, and they work fine.
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Can you put me down for:
- Pack A
- Sample Pack
- International shipping
Thanks mate.
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o-rings don't change the height of the keys.
The keycaps stems are 5.5mm so 5mm ID is ideal. Anything bigger might slip off too easily. Besides, the well-tested -008 o-rings have an ID of 4.75 or so, and they work fine.
Im going to use it on ALPS.
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o-rings don't change the height of the keys.
It can but he's on doubleshot : http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1417&hilit=o+ring (http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1417&hilit=o+ring)
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Im going to use it on ALPS.
No idea about o-rings on ALPS.
It can but he's on doubleshot : http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1417&hilit=o+ring (http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1417&hilit=o+ring)
Interesting. But on the keys that sit higher he said he installed them with low pressure. You have to push the key down hard so it seats properly. And he is using thick (2mm) o-rings. Anyway, I haven't tried thick o-rings but I can tell you that the regular or thin o-rings, installed with proper pressure, do not change the height of the keycaps.
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my bad, i thought you were only doing one round. since that's the case, can i just get 1x sample pack first and i'll decide which one to get for round 2. the choices you have are crazy !!!
i'm only going to offer the "sample" pack if you get it along with another pack. The reason is because at only $1, i'll be losing my own money doing this. i have to take into account shipping costs to me, shipping to you, and actual cost of the O-rings, which will put me into the negatives. the normal packs already have these costs factored in, so that's why i can offer sample packs for only $1 if you get them with the at least 1 normal pack.
So you mean that your keys on your keyboard are the same height with pack E as keys without o-ring?
sorry, i forgot to answer this part of your question when you first asked. the key itself is the same height with or without the O-rings, even with the largest O-rings. it only shortens the bottom-out distance and reduces key travel. basically, with two keys side by side, one with the o-ring and one without, you can't tell which one has the o-ring unless you press on the key. i also put these fat O-rings on my sc2 doubleshot keys and it did not raise the key's height on the keyboard.
5mm ID is the biggest you can get?
for now, 5mm ID is the biggest, although i could ask the company again, but i'm not sure if i want to go through the hassle dealing with a new quote that will delay the whole order. i'm assuming you're asking this in regards to my post on O-rings and ALPS switches?
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25789-O-rings-thingy-for-ALPS&p=485508&viewfull=1#post485508
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For larger o-rings for ALPS check this post, (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25789-O-rings-thingy-for-ALPS&p=486203&viewfull=1#post486203) this thread is focused on Cherry MX which need an ID anywhere between 4.7 - 5.2mm
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Pack B with sample packet please.
Where are you from?
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^ bump
in that case, pack H (please let me know price before ordering, i might change to pack a/b if the price is too steep) + sample pack please!
thank you so much for the hard work
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Hello,
is pack H in comparison to pack E more silent? And is pack E much more silent than pack A? When do we get more information on pack H?
I have a backlit keyboard (Ducky Shine), will a O-ring affect the light, since the inner of the key cap (stem, etc) is translucent? I guess there are no transparent O-rings and I guess a slimmer ring (pack A) is best to not absorb to much of the light, no?
How many rings are in one pack exactly?
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Did I miss something or did nobody ask till now what material these rings are made of?
There are big differences between the rubber variants...
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Did I miss something or did nobody ask till now what material these rings are made of?
Silicone.
There are big differences between the rubber variants...
They don't matter much in this application. The durometer is the main characteristic we care about. Different materials matter when you expose your o-rings to different kinds of chemicals, extreme temperatures, or high forces; for typing there are no fluids or chemicals involved and the forces are tiny compare to what o-rings normally have to endure!
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In this application one characteristic does matter:
I don't know the english word for it, but I once had a cheap o-ring that was damaged a little bit, each time you pressed a key hard, because this plastic cross in the keycaps cuts the ring...
Some materials can handle this "cutting" stress better than others. Some of these cheap rings were cut through after about 2 weeks of hard use.
I hope my english was good enough that you understand what I mean...
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UPDATE: just got off the phone with the company. i feel a little price raped because they increased the price on me. you can tell because all the newer pack options i added cost more. i tried to deal with the company, but they're firm on prices in the quantities that i'm going to order. again, i did not arbitrarily set these prices myself, it's the quote that i got. the OP has been updated with the prices.
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How much time do we have to decide which pack to take?
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In this application one characteristic does matter:
I don't know the english word for it, but I once had a cheap o-ring that was damaged a little bit, each time you pressed a key hard, because this plastic cross in the keycaps cuts the ring...
Some materials can handle this "cutting" stress better than others. Some of these cheap rings were cut through after about 2 weeks of hard use.
I hope my english was good enough that you understand what I mean...
Yes, I get it. That happened to me too when I tried dental bands. FWIW I have silicone "rust" color o-rings, which are almost certainly identical to the ones sold here, and they hold up really well, I even chewed one as a test and it survived fine! I have a set of these on one of my most heavily used Advantage LF since April (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857&viewfull=1&page=4&do=comments#post337573) and they are perfect after 8 months of daily use.
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So I would take 2x pack A -- 90 and 120 pcs. International shipping
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Interested in a pack A 105 with a sample pack
ConUS
Should I PM you with shipping/payment details or?
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pack A 105
pack E 105
sample pack
international
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I've just tried to stack 2 o-rings 40d from wasd keyboard to know what to expect of pack E.
You have to push the key down quite hard in order to seat it properly but it's not really a big deal.
The double o-rings height is about 3mm and it still actuates the key 90% of time. The key's height itself is preserved (I use non double-shot keycaps). There is zero travel course, you actuate the key as you bottom out.
Pack E with 2.4mm should be the perfect way to mod your mecha into a scissor-switch type.
Can't wait :)
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6 x Pack A 105
USA shipping
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UPDATE: i'm now taking payment, i updated the OP with payment instructions but i'll be PMing everyone the same info in case you don't follow this thread.
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finally get a chance to answer questions:
Where are you from?
i posted it in the OP, i'm from the US, california to be more specific
Hello,
is pack H in comparison to pack E more silent? And is pack E much more silent than pack A? When do we get more information on pack H?
I have a backlit keyboard (Ducky Shine), will a O-ring affect the light, since the inner of the key cap (stem, etc) is translucent? I guess there are no transparent O-rings and I guess a slimmer ring (pack A) is best to not absorb to much of the light, no?
How many rings are in one pack exactly?
H and E should have nearly the same dampening and noise reduction since one is thicker but harder, and the other is softer and thinner. main difference between these is the bottom-out softness. E and A has almost the same dampening, although to me i feels like E does a little better job since it's thicker. but the main difference between these two are the bottom-out distances.
i have no idea how o-rings will affect the LEDs from a ducky shine, you'll just have to find out and maybe post back the results so we know.
i updated differnt O-ring pack count in the OP a few days ago if u didn't notice
Did I miss something or did nobody ask till now what material these rings are made of?
There are big differences between the rubber variants...
pack A, E, and H will be silicone, everything else is EPDM. silicone cost slightly more than EPDM, but it's available sooner for this group buy
In this application one characteristic does matter:
I don't know the english word for it, but I once had a cheap o-ring that was damaged a little bit, each time you pressed a key hard, because this plastic cross in the keycaps cuts the ring...
Some materials can handle this "cutting" stress better than others. Some of these cheap rings were cut through after about 2 weeks of hard use.
I hope my english was good enough that you understand what I mean...
these O-rings are pretty soft, so it has a high flexibility. it'll be harder to "cut" these because it has so much flex. the only instance i can see keycaps ever "cut" all the way through the O-rings would be if the o-ring material is cheap and brittle, which can't bend or flex much. in keyboard application around the 40-70 durometer, material does not matter much because these O-rings won't go through extremes of stress, temperature, or chemicals to matter much.
i pinched these O-rings with my nails as hard as i could, it did not tear or make any marks. HERE (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0099.jpg) is a picture of two different silicone O-rings stretching more than twice its size to fit on a ALPS switch. u can see how much it can stretch without tearing.
How much time do we have to decide which pack to take?
a few days, then i'm going to make the order. this is a quick group buy, unlike keycap orders that takes months.
I've just tried to stack 2 o-rings 40d from wasd keyboard to know what to expect of pack E.
You have to push the key down quite hard in order to seat it properly but it's not really a big deal.
The double o-rings height is about 3mm and it still actuates the key 90% of time. The key's height itself is preserved (I use non double-shot keycaps). There is zero travel course, you actuate the key as you bottom out.
Pack E with 2.4mm should be the perfect way to mod your mecha into a scissor-switch type.
Can't wait :)
i pretty much saw the same thing as you, in post #2 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25714-O-Rings-of-vaious-thickness-and-softness-Group-Buy&p=483521&viewfull=1#post483521) of this thread. basiaclly with one fat thick O-ring (E), it bottoms out just after the actuation point, but double O-rings in pack A actuates right at the bottom-out point, which on rare cases might not actuate the keys. that's why i listed pack E as the max thickness you can have, double small O-rings might be too thick. it really depends on the keycaps though. this was tested on PBT keycaps on a filco
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My first Geekhack purchase, woo! :clap2:
Edit:
1x pack E - 105 count
1x Sample
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put me in for pack a + sample pack. when will this group buy conclude?
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Hey!
any chance I could still get in on this? what a great deal, I can pay instantly
I'd like an A (90) + G (90) + SAMPLE + INT. shipping please!
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1 x package A 120
1 x package A 90
1 x sample pack
1 x international ship
$24 correct?
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Hi, I send the payment via paypal for
2 pack A TKL
+ sample
+ international shipping
= 20 US dollars
Thank you
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pack A: $9
120 pack: +$4
sample pack: +$1
international: +$1
= $15
PayPal fee 3% of $15: +$0.45
Total = $15.45
Is it correct, or did I get the PayPal fee thing wrong? Please confirm so I can do the payment.
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i just updated the list in the OP for new people interested and people that already paid. i'll answer all questions when i get home in a few hours
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You have me twice on the list now, btw. :D
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paid.
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what is the difference between regular payment and gift payment?
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when will this group buy conclude?
i'll put in the final order in a few days, at the end of the week. i don't want to leave this group buy open for weeks or months. i may or may not do a second round
= $15
PayPal fee 3% of $15: +$0.45
Total = $15.45
Is it correct, or did I get the PayPal fee thing wrong? Please confirm so I can do the payment.
total is actually $15.75 to send for me to receive exactly $15. paypal fee is a flat $0.30 on top of an additional 2.9% of the total amount. i put the paypal fee calculator link in the OP where it says "paypal fees", but here it is again. send payment as "gift" to avoid these fees.
http://thefeecalculator.com/
You have me twice on the list now, btw. :D
oops, i think you posted twice so i added you to the list 2 different times without realizing, i'll fix it. you're just a popular guy :D
what is the difference between regular payment and gift payment?
in normal payments, there are paypal fees. sending it as "gift" avoids these fees for both of us. so please don't let paypal get any wealthier, they're already bad as is :/
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total is actually $15.75 to send for me to receive exactly $15. paypal fee is a flat $0.30 on top of an additional 2.9% of the total amount. i put the paypal fee calculator link in the OP where it says "paypal fees", but here it is again. send payment as "gift" to avoid these fees.
http://thefeecalculator.com/
I already feel ripped off by paypal, even if the legal agreement states that I can send money as a gift, the tab 'personal', where I can set it as such, was not available in the form (I tried another browser, too).
Anyway, I sent 15.75 USD for one pack A of 120, plus a sample pack and international shipment.
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Is this still open?! If so for how long?
Because I haven't researched yet, but I am wanting some nice quality o rings for my KBC Poker with MX reds and PBT caps.
Which out of these o rings would suit the KBC Poker with PBT and Red switches?
I am mainly looking to achieve small key travel so I bottom out earlier. I heard this is the best for fps gaming?
Also what are peoples opinions on getting soft and hard o rings? The hard o rings sound like they would be nicer opposed to the soft because I am afraid with the soft o rings it will make the keyboard feel mushy almost like a membrane keyboard. Looking to hear advice! especially from people who have played fps games with the o ring mod on reds.
Based on this I guess I am looking at packs C, E, F and G.
Sorry about the jumbled post guys ;c.
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Is this still open?! If so for how long?
Because I haven't researched yet, but I am wanting some nice quality o rings for my KBC Poker with MX reds and PBT caps.
Which out of these o rings would suit the KBC Poker with PBT and Red switches?
I am mainly looking to achieve small key travel so I bottom out earlier. I heard this is the best for fps gaming?
Also what are peoples opinions on getting soft and hard o rings? The hard o rings sound like they would be nicer opposed to the soft because I am afraid with the soft o rings it will make the keyboard feel mushy almost like a membrane keyboard. Looking to hear advice! especially from people who have played fps games with the o ring mod on reds.
Based on this I guess I am looking at packs C, E, F and G.
Sorry about the jumbled post guys ;c.
sordna seems to be the oring master, and he loves 40A. I got 40A's on my cherry blue pcb mounted switches, and it's a little mushy to me. So I ordered 50A. Still a bit mushy. So from this group buy, I'm trying 70A. I don't want any "mush". I want the key to feel like I've just hit the bottom of the switch like normal, but without the hollow bottoming out sound. But this is all personal preference. Some people really like the soft landing. It's one of those "buy everything and try them all". Which the sample pack is great for.
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sordna seems to be the oring master, and he loves 40A. I got 40A's on my cherry blue pcb mounted switches, and it's a little mushy to me. So I ordered 50A. Still a bit mushy. So from this group buy, I'm trying 70A. I don't want any "mush". I want the key to feel like I've just hit the bottom of the switch like normal, but without the hollow bottoming out sound. But this is all personal preference. Some people really like the soft landing. It's one of those "buy everything and try them all". Which the sample pack is great for.
Hey, thanks for sharing your opinion. The more peoples opinions I hear the easier it will be for me to choose :)
It seems I missed the selling of the sample pack, I will definitely be ordering that. I wonder if it would be wise just to order the sample pack first?
I too am afraid of choosing too soft of an o ring because it sounds like it may have a mushy feel to it.
Anyone else care to share their opinions on the different o rings? Especially looking forward to hearing from someone with reds who play competitively.
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in normal payments, there are paypal fees. sending it as "gift" avoids these fees for both of us. so please don't let paypal get any wealthier, they're already bad as is :/
just to mention...
don’t know if thats only for international payments (never done a gift payment in Austria / Euro-Zone)…
but if I want to do a gift payment with USD or CAD (done both of them before) I have to come up for the fees. I’ve tried to do a gift payment with 15$, at the end I would have to pay 15,89$... even more than +3% +0,30$!...
maybe there are no fees for gift payment when you pay from the US, as a matter of fact I think you can’t avoid paypal getting even more wealthier :/ they know how to steel our money…
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Payment sent! woohoo! first groupbuy, thanks for hosting this! what a neat product
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just sent $23 for pack E (105 count) plus a sampler. really appreciate what you are doing here, thanks!
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Hey, thanks for sharing your opinion. The more peoples opinions I hear the easier it will be for me to choose :)
It seems I missed the selling of the sample pack, I will definitely be ordering that. I wonder if it would be wise just to order the sample pack first?
I too am afraid of choosing too soft of an o ring because it sounds like it may have a mushy feel to it.
Anyone else care to share their opinions on the different o rings? Especially looking forward to hearing from someone with reds who play competitively.
I own a Poker red too. I'm a really light typer, I don't bottom out much. BUT...I like the feeling of bottoming out as it acts as a good feedback. However I can't do it cause it tired you as there is too much travel.
Another good thing is it is much easier to actuate your key fast repeatedly.
All of that to say if you are a light typer there are good chances you won't feel 40 mushy. And anyway by owning different oring's force type I can say that there is a difference but a slightly difference.
My last point is the difference is even sightlier with fat orings which shorten the travel cause you won't have enough speed/force (if you are a light typer again) to bottom out that hard .
I use the 40's one for the better noise dampening IMO.
I'm going for pack E which seems to be the best candidate for this job.
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Hey, thanks for sharing your opinion. The more peoples opinions I hear the easier it will be for me to choose :)
It seems I missed the selling of the sample pack, I will definitely be ordering that. I wonder if it would be wise just to order the sample pack first?
I too am afraid of choosing too soft of an o ring because it sounds like it may have a mushy feel to it.
Anyone else care to share their opinions on the different o rings? Especially looking forward to hearing from someone with reds who play competitively.
as stated by TS reply to me earlier, we can't order an sample pack alone. you need to get it along with a normal pack.
i think the question about competitive play is really subjective and unique to each individual.
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Is this still open?! If so for how long?
Which out of these o rings would suit the KBC Poker with PBT and Red switches?
I am mainly looking to achieve small key travel so I bottom out earlier. I heard this is the best for fps gaming?
Also what are peoples opinions on getting soft and hard o rings? The hard o rings sound like they would be nicer opposed to the soft because I am afraid with the soft o rings it will make the keyboard feel mushy almost like a membrane keyboard. Looking to hear advice! especially from people who have played fps games with the o ring mod on reds.
it's still open, but only for a few more days.
which O-ring is best suited for which cap type or switch is a really subjective matter. it all depends on person preference. i personally use soft 40A in the thickest size (pack E) to purposely shorten the key travel (so it resembles my laptop and logitech illuminated keybaoard with short key travels), while still being able to dampen the bottom out "CLACK" noises. this way, the key travel is similar to the old keyboards i'm use to but still feels like mechanical switches. this is on a filco MX blues with PBT caps, and i use this setup for some high level starcraft2 gaming once in a while.
again, whether something is too soft or hard is subjective. i personally like the 40A softness. it doesn't feel mushy to me, and especially nothing like a membrane keyboard. it simply takes most of the shock and "clack" noise out when you hit the bottom, but you can still feel the bottom-out. like what o2dazone said, just get the sample pack so you try out all of them to see what you like best: softness range from 30A -70A, thickness ranges from 1mm - 2.6mm. the sample packs are only $1, so you'll have to get it with a normal pack though like transcend3nt reiterated.
just to mention...
don’t know if thats only for international payments (never done a gift payment in Austria / Euro-Zone)…
but if I want to do a gift payment with USD or CAD (done both of them before) I have to come up for the fees. I’ve tried to do a gift payment with 15$, at the end I would have to pay 15,89$... even more than +3% +0,30$!...
maybe there are no fees for gift payment when you pay from the US, as a matter of fact I think you can’t avoid paypal getting even more wealthier :/ they know how to steel our money…
i believe "gift" payments only work for the US, because i noticed that i still get hit with fees with international payments that are sent as gift. i think paypal also charges some fees for currency conversion, that's why it's even more than $.30 + 3%. i prefer amazon payments with no fees at all and that's why i listed that as an option, but i'm afraid i'll just have to suck it up with paypal since that's how almost all transactions are done on all forums :/
edit: in fact, i just refunded one person, and paypal did not refund back most of the fees.
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Cheers for the response guys.
I guess it really is personal preference, although can someone describe the difference between the bottoming out distance with the thicker vs thin o rings?
From a purely mechanical perspective, it "should" speed things up because once you have passed the registering point there is a lot of unnecessary distance that needs to be covered.
Right now I have never used a mechanical keyboard, but I have a Poker arriving with reds and pbt caps. I am sure I will be bottoming out and I don't see myself stopping any time soon.
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I guess it really is personal preference, although can someone describe the difference between the bottoming out distance with the thicker vs thin o rings?
From a purely mechanical perspective, it "should" speed things up because once you have passed the registering point there is a lot of unnecessary distance that needs to be covered.
so far all O-rings have been the standard thickness, no one has experience with these thicker ones because i custom ordered for myself before opening this group buy. but i do have a comparison between the standard one vs thicker ones. since i bottom-out on almost every key stroke, i did find myself typing a tad faster when i used thicker o-rings because it shortened the distance of every key travel. here's the full read on my personal review on the differences of the two sized if you're looking for more info:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:25612
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Thanks, I have already seen the wiki, Thumbs up for making it.
Do the thicker ones not come in different hardnesses?
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Thanks, I have already seen the wiki, Thumbs up for making it.
Do the thicker ones not come in different hardnesses?
no. only 40A and 70A. reason being is that i can't have all softness in all combinations with sizes because that's too many options. with that many options, the quantities of orders will be spread out, and cost of each pack will be a little more. with less options, more people will buy certain packs, and when i meet a certain number O-rings, it's cheaper per O-ring.
at this thickness, you obviously wanted an early bottom-out, now it's picking either soft or hard. i don't think anything in between is necessary
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Yeah, that's fair.
I think I have to go with the thickest once because as you or someone else stated there effect on the Pokers with PBT caps are minimal.
So 40A or 70A, this is the question...
WhiteFireDragon and others what are your experiences with the 70A hardness O-rings? I have heard plenty of good things from the 40A, but not much from 70A.
EDIT: Also, on the off chance I pay 20+ for the thick ones and prefer another type from the sample bag, what would the chances of me reselling these on here be like?
Cheers.
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i believe "gift" payments only work for the US, because i noticed that i still get hit with fees with international payments that are sent as gift. i think paypal also charges some fees for currency conversion, that's why it's even more than $.30 + 3%. i prefer amazon payments with no fees at all and that's why i listed that as an option, but i'm afraid i'll just have to suck it up with paypal since that's how almost all transactions are done on all forums :/
edit: in fact, i just refunded one person, and paypal did not refund back most of the fees.
Sorry about that, I hope you didn't have to much loss with paypal. I will try Amazon payments next time.
So 40A or 70A, this is the question...
WhiteFireDragon and others what are your experiences with the 70A hardness O-rings? I have heard plenty of good things from the 40A, but not much from 70A.
I have no experience with either, but I guess you have to see it logical: if you wish to have a noticeable, crisp and firm felt bottom out (somewhat close to unmodded), than no doubt you should go for 70A, if you want it soft and silent and less obvious, than 40A is it.
It is funny, after typing with my unmodded mech, I got to love the crisp bottom out sound, but still I'd prefer a more silent and softer bottom out and slight key travel reduction. Initially I wanted to go for the fat o-rings, but after trying my old laptop keyboard, I realized that I didn't like the very short key travel.
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UPDATE: i submitted about half the order already, basically the ones that they already have in stock. those that ordered pack A will get them next week. the rest of the other packs will have an estimated production time of 3 weeks. deadline to get in on this will be sunday night. i will submit the complete order on monday morning.
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Ok, I am from New Zealand, what time here is the cut off?
If I ordered 1x Pack E
1x Pack G
1x Sample Pack
Shipped to NZ would it be roughly 26-27 USD?
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hi
pack A $9
full size 105 $2
international shipping $1
sample pack $1
paypal fees
= $13,69
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WhiteFireDragon and others what are your experiences with the 70A hardness O-rings? I have heard plenty of good things from the 40A, but not much from 70A.
EDIT: Also, on the off chance I pay 20+ for the thick ones and prefer another type from the sample bag, what would the chances of me reselling these on here be like?
Cheers.
i have no experience with 70A hardness, this will be my first time buying them for myself as well. i only have different 40A sizes that i've tried. the pack A is by far the most popular one, and i've noticed taking a tally count that there are less packs ordered when they deviate farther from pack A because of size, softness, and price. with that said, i'm sure you'll be able to sell it to someone (that missed this group buy), but the demand for them will be less than pack A.
Ok, I am from New Zealand, what time here is the cut off?
If I ordered 1x Pack E, 1x Pack G, 1x Sample Pack
Shipped to NZ would it be roughly 26-27 USD?
monday 8am according to this time zone calculator (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?month=1&day=15&year=2012&hour=23&min=55&sec=0&p1=137&p2=16). yes that's right, $26 shipped without fees, a little more with fees
hi
pack A $9
full size 105 $2
international shipping $1
sample pack $1
paypal fees
= $13,69 is it correct ?
yes that's right with all fees. however, i noticed that some of the international payments that i've gotten so far, there's some other associated paypal fees. it's more than the $.30 + 2.9% US fees. i'm guessing they're adding on currency conversion charges :(. but i did foresee this before anyone paid, so that's why the "+ $1 international" is there, to account for extra shipping and hidden paypal fees. dam paypal wants to milk our money at every corner...
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thanks, payment sent :)
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Thanks for the fast response, much appreciated. What is the reason for the price difference between Pack G which is $4 and Pack E? Is it because of differing materials? or because it is more rare?
Cheers.
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pack G is standard rubber, it can be found at some online stores (maybe amazon?). pack E is silicone material, a little more than EPDM or nitriles. but most of the cost comes from the fact that it's custom made, 40A softness is not found anywhere so i had to custom order it and ask for a quote in that size.
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Ah ok, that makes sense. What is the general consensus between the quality of Silicone vs Standard rubber?
I am sure both would be equally durable used in a keyboard environment?
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I will take 3 G packs, 90 pieces each and a sampler.
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Hi, I'm interested in ordering an A pack and a sample pack. So I take it that would be $11+$1? (Assuming I'm just gifting you the money? Or would I have to include the fees regardless?)
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[video=youtube_share;RJg2vDsysbA]http://youtu.be/RJg2vDsysbA[/video]
this video shows the sound test of the differences. it will eliminate almost all bottom-out noises, but near the end when i press hard enough, you can hear the "thud" on the o-rings vs the "CLACK" with no o-rings. there is little difference in dampening between pack A and pack E (well the mic can't really pic up the differences), main difference between these two packs is the bottom-out distance, not dampening ability. when keys are pressed lightly so they don't hit the bottom, there is no difference between keys with and without o-rings. you can still hear the switches and the keys springing back up. this was done a a filco board with MX blue switches. keys 1-3 are stock filco keys, keys 4-9 are engraved PBT keys
key #1: pack E o-ring
key #2: pack A o-ring
key #3: no o-ring
key #4: pack E o-ring
key #5: pack A o-ring
key #6 no o-ring
key #7 no o-ring
key #8: pack E o-ring
key #9: pack E o-ring
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Ah ok, that makes sense. What is the general consensus between the quality of Silicone vs Standard rubber?
I am sure both would be equally durable used in a keyboard environment?
no difference between silicone, EPDM, or nitriles. there's not enough differences in temperature, abrasion, or chemicals for it to matter when it comes to keyboard application. just don't use super cheap material
Hi, I'm interested in ordering an A pack and a sample pack. So I take it that would be $11+$1? (Assuming I'm just gifting you the money? Or would I have to include the fees regardless?)
that's correct. and you only cover the fees if you don't send payment as gift. basically pay it in a way so i receive the exact amount
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Ok, I think for my first group buy I'll keep it cheap, and if I like any of the o-rings in the sample pack I will know what I want later on.
I'll take 1x Pack G at $4
1x Sample Pack at $1
International shipping to New Zealand $1
Rounded up to $7.
Is that fine?
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Payment made for $7
1x Pack G
1x Sample Pack
International shipping
Rounded up.
Cheers.
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1x Pack F (90) - $4
1x Sample Pack - $1
International shipping - $1
Paypal fees + magic - $1
Total - $7 sent
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forum name - lyk503
Pack F (90) -$4
Sample Pack - $1
Total - $5
Gifted. <3
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I take one pack A with 120 rings.
Payment sent for:
1 pack A, 120 rings
sample pack
international shipping
paypal fees according to that fee calculator
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In for 1 Pack A (120 count) and 1 Sample Pack. Paypal gift payment sent. Thanks!
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1 Pack C (120 Count) Sent paypal gift.
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As my previous post requested pack A and sample pack. I m changing it to pack A, pack F and sample pack. I just sent the payment (paypal gift) a minute ago. Hopefully you have time to change my order. Thanks in advance.
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the list in the OP has been updated with new people and payment status. if you still want to get in on this group buy, the deadline is in a couple hours, but technically you still have half a day until i submit the full order. no need to PM me or post in this thread and wait for a reply, just sent the payment to my paypal with all order info in the note section, i'll add all that info to my excel spreadsheet for the order and update the OP with your name on the list. for the 4 people that hasn't sent payment yet, i'll send you guys a PM to see if you still want your orders.
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Hi, I'd like, 2x pack A full size (105), payment sent as gift.
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In for 1 Pack A (90 count) and 1 Sample Pack. Paypal gift payment sent. Thanks!
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What a great gig! Thanks for offering this, I didn't think so many people would be so interested.
I just found this and don't have the time to jump in. I understand the cut off, it's needed. Maybe a 2nd group buy will happen? Maybe that has been asked, so many pages, so little time :)
I'm interested in:
Pack A
Pack C
Pack E
Pack Sample
Is Pack B the black -008 similar from McMaster-Carr that some of us purchased a while back? I have those.
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Yes, B is like the McMaster Carr. Hey how come you don't want to try pack H ? At 1.5mm thickness I think it's ideal!
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Yes, B is like the McMaster Carr. Hey how come you don't want to try pack H ? At 1.5mm thickness I think it's ideal!
I figured I'd get them from you for free when it turns out you hate them :)
I'm up to about $40 for O-rings!!! Yikes! And I bought 2 packs from McMaster-Carr....O-ring surplus in Monterey, CA
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Whitefiredragon,
As this is concluding, please don't forget to update itrader ratings on GH and anyone who has a heatware profile.
my heatware is jellowiggler.
I've got to starting reminding people. I'm trying to build a score as I drift away from ebay auctions.
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Whitefiredragon,
As this is concluding, please don't forget to update itrader ratings on GH and anyone who has a heatware profile.
my heatware is jellowiggler.
I've got to starting reminding people. I'm trying to build a score as I drift away from ebay auctions.
btw, my heatware is cixx79. Thanks!
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As this is concluding, please don't forget to update itrader ratings on GH and anyone who has a heatware profile.
btw, my heatware is cixx79. Thanks!
this is a group buy, not something i'm personally selling. the prices were from quotes i received, plus the two way shipping costs added on. so whatever you bought, it's directly from the manufacturer, i'm just distributing it. with that said, i don't think getting a feedback score applies for group buys, but i suppose if you request it i can give feedback both on heatware and GH itrader once i ship everything out
for those that participated in other past group buys, is this something regularly done, or does the feedback/itrader system apply only for the classified section?
cix, heatware (http://heatware.com/eval.php?id=66337) is a good feedback system outside of ebay though, because it's the same feedback account that can be used no matter what forum you go to.
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UPDATE: complete order is processed, they started making the custom o-rings. i already received some of the first half of the order i placed on friday, so i'll start shipping out for people that ordered pack A
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Thanks for all the diligence and updates on this gb :)
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Indeed. Well done. Very smooth.
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Dang I missed that! I am not often on geekhack but if somebody do the same groupbuy in the future I would take one pack of each. Thank you I receive an e-mail when someone PM me on geekhack, I would really enjoy less noise for my cherry switches.
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UPDATE: complete order is processed, they started making the custom o-rings. i already received some of the first half of the order i placed on friday, so i'll start shipping out for people that ordered pack A
thanks! what a cool group order, thank's again! can't wait to try them!
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Dang I missed that! I am not often on geekhack but if somebody do the same groupbuy in the future I would take one pack of each. Thank you I receive an e-mail when someone PM me on geekhack, I would really enjoy less noise for my cherry switches.
I am pretty sure there will be a round2, so that the people who ordered the "sample" pack can get what they want with that.
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I am pretty sure there will be a round2, so that the people who ordered the "sample" pack can get what they want with that.
I hope so!
But in all truth I have to tell you guys that I could pass on my full order to Whitefirephoenix who have bought a tad more than strictly what was demanded, and that this was enough for me to... to buy for 75$ of o-rings!
Hahahaha hahahaha, muhahaha, no one can beat me!
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I am pretty sure there will be a round2, so that the people who ordered the "sample" pack can get what they want with that.
I hope so!
But in all truth I have to tell you guys that I could pass on my full order to Whitefirephoenix who have bought a tad more than strictly what was demanded, and that this was enough for me to... to buy for 75$ of o-rings!
Hahahaha hahahaha, muhahaha, no one can beat me!
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Thanks for doing this!
I got my first keyboard today and can't wait to try these out.
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UPDATE: I just got another shipment in. If you ordered pack A, E, F, G (or any of these combinations) with a sample pack, I can ship out what's available right now if you pay the $1 postage cost. Then the sample pack and packs B, C, D, H will ship out again in 2-3 weeks when they finish. I can't put together the sample packs yet with half of the different O-rings still missing. If you ordered A, E, F, or G without the sample pack, I'll automatically ship out your stuff in the next day or two.
I will send a PM of this to all those that apply, in case you don't constantly check this thread for updates.
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UPDATE: I just got another shipment in.
I will send a PM of this to all those that apply, in case you don't constantly check this thread for updates.
Looking forward to receiving a pack. Thank you so much for this Group Buy.
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Received Pack A (105) x 6 in New York on Saturday.
Thank you.
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I got my 2 pack A's, thanks for organizing this GB, I'm sure if this gets rebooted, I'll get more.
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I'm hoping my pack A comes tomorrow since it seems everyone else got theirs.
Got mine today, January 23rd. What method/process are people using to put these on?
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received my 70a rings :) thanks man!
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Got my pack A today.
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Shoot I missed out on this, how do I get my name in the hat for a pack of A's??? :noidea:
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I missed that group buy. Hope that there will be next soon. ;)
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Shoot I missed out on this, how do I get my name in the hat for a pack of A's??? :noidea:
You can get 40A o-rings from wasdkeyboards.com, they would be similar to the A's offered here.
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Received mine today! Thanks for the GB!
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Would like to mention that I've tried both the 40a (wasd), 50a (mcmaster carr), and 70a (this group buy), and the 70a is the only ring that I've used that didn't change the feeling of the key hitting bottom. 40 and 50a are almost no difference in feeling, but the 70a is surprisingly more stiff. Unfortunately because of how it reduces the travel on the key itself (and I feel ergo clears need a little more breathing room to better feel the tactile bumps), I'm not using them. They'll come in handy elsewhere though :)
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UPDATE: I just received shipment for packs B, C, and the rest of E. Looks like they saved the hardest for last (pack D and H), right sordna? Looks like you'll be the last one to get a complete order ^_^
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oh goody, getting closer.
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It's ok, I can wait. How many folks ordered pack D and H ? It would be interesting to post order statistics. Also, did you order any extras for folks that missed out?
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It's ok, I can wait. How many folks ordered pack D and H ? It would be interesting to post order statistics. Also, did you order any extras for folks that missed out?
I've got all the time in the world......... Just take it easy and send the O-rings when ever you like. I'm not going to put the hard word on when I will get it, but WhiteFireDragon has gone the utmost in providing high-quality O-rings for the likes of us here at Geekhack.
I for one, am very glad to know this person, and will always be buying more stuff from him.
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Got mine today. Thank for the group buy.
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Still open or closed?
Or any orders left?
Gr.
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I got my G packs today. Thanks.
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got mine today. thanks
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Got mine. Thx!
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Mine arrived. Thank you WhiteFireDragon!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Furuyah/Keyboard/ORing_PackE.jpg)
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It's ok, I can wait. How many folks ordered pack D and H ? It would be interesting to post order statistics. Also, did you order any extras for folks that missed out?
only 5 people ordered H, and 7 people ordered D. Pack A had the most by far, about 40 packs. Minimum order for each type was 500 O-rings, which had no problem hitting. I had to order extras for all of them because most people wanted sample packs. There's about 1 extra pack for all of them, F and G has a few extra packs, and pack A has the most extra since they are the most popular.
I've got all the time in the world......... Just take it easy and send the O-rings when ever you like. I'm not going to put the hard word on when I will get it, but WhiteFireDragon has gone the utmost in providing high-quality O-rings for the likes of us here at Geekhack.
I for one, am very glad to know this person, and will always be buying more stuff from him.
Your stuff shipped last week so you should get it sometimes this week if you haven't already gotten it. And thanks for the kind words ^_^
Got mine. Thx!
I'm very surprised that you got it just now, yours was one of the first ones that shipped out.
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Got my pack of A's yesterday thanks heaps, they're soo much better than the one's I was able to source locally!
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Got mine today up in calgary.
This was a nice gb! Quick, well run, fast payments and shipping.
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Mine hasn't even been posted yet :c waiting for all the o rings for the sample pack I guess.
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Eager to get mine in! :P Kinda regret ordering the sample pack since I'm the impatient type but oh well! For those with pack A who have never used O-rings before, how did they feel for you guys?
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Mine hasn't even been posted yet :c waiting for all the o rings for the sample pack I guess.
Eager to get mine in! :P Kinda regret ordering the sample pack since I'm the impatient type but oh well! For those with pack A who have never used O-rings before, how did they feel for you guys?
You guys didn't see the update? I also sent PMs to everyone that it applies to. I basically said I got some half of the shipment already, and I'm willing to ship it early as long as you pay for postage ($1). That's how half the people on the list already received their complete or partial orders already. I sent out this "early shipment" either the same day or day after payment. The rest of the shipment will go out again when I get everything, at no addition cost. I'll just automatically ship it out. Check your inbox again, and here is also the update I posted in this thread:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25714-O-Rings-of-various-thickness-and-softness-Group-Buy&p=495189&viewfull=1#post495189
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Ah, missed that. Anyway how much longer are we looking at for the rest to be sent?
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I'm guessing I should get the rest in a few days, a week max. I ship stuff out either same day or day after, and it takes another 1-3 days for you to receive them if you're in CONUS, or about a week if you're international.
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Awesome so 2 weeks or less. I'm excited.
Also would you have any clue as to why when I remapped my KBC Poker so my Caps lock should act as an Escape it did not work?
I went into the registry at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout
and created a new binary value called Scancode Map with what I believed to be the relevant scan code values but nothing changed, even after I rebooted :c
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Got my pack A a little over a week ago now (shipped rather fast actually). If you do another round I'd definitely be up for more packs for any future keyboards I get.
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Got my pack F yesterday for my Poker with reds and it feels amazing. The reduction in travel makes it feel much less mushy with a softer bottom out sound and almost not change in how it feels to bottom out (other than it is sooner). Looking forward to the samples so I can decide if I want to get anything for my browns. Thanks for the awesome group buy!
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My Pack-E's arrived today. So happy in getting them.
WhiteFireDragon has surpassed my level of service. He has indeed provided a product that is very needed on this forum and I am glad to have him here to provide everyone with even more great stuff.
Thanks so much.......
(P.S. Have already left very positive feedback for you......)
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Just wondering, would it be possible to just cancel my order for a sample pack and instead use that $1 for the expedited shipping? :3 I don't think I'll have much use with the sample pack anyways.
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Still possible to order some O-rings?
Would like to have the same ones you have in your short review, I also used to have logitech lowprofile keys. ;)
-> O-Ring mod: dampen noise and shorten bottoming-out distanc (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:25612)
"while the larger ones has an outer diameter of 6/16" (9.52mm) and a thickness of 3/32" (2.38mm)"
It is pack E?
pack E: nearly no bottom-out noise, max key travel reduction $20
40A, 3/16 ID, 3/8 OD, 3/32 W
*120 count pack
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I received my Pack A this week. Many thanks to WhiteFireDragon.
I love how the keyboard feels with the rings. Over time the loud clacks became annoying and the hard bottom out almost painful to the finger tips over the course of long and hard, fast typing. With the rings the keyboard is more silent and there is less stress to the finger tips. I actually wonder why mech boards aren't designed like this from the get go.
Only drawback is that it does affect the backlighting, not for the smaller characters which are located at the top of the key (top if you look from above the keyboard, the function keys, etc), but for the larger letters which have the bottom part slightly darker, giving the letters some sort of a gradient. Not a big deal, but not great either.
Another drawback is, that clumsy me cracked the spacebar while removing it, right where the glowing logo is. :( But it's luckily not that much visible. Still, those keys are extremely fragile.
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Not sure what the hold up is with the last few O-rings types. I expected them to come by now, but still have not received it yet. Time to send some nag emails to get it done faster.
And to new orders and PM's, I already took care of all you guys :wink:. Let me know if I missed any PMs or shipments.
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;c Just my luck.
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I'm glad I paid the extra dollar to come early because I still haven't received my sample pack. : P
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I'm glad I paid the extra dollar to come early because I still haven't received my sample pack. : P
Wait, are you saying you just haven't received the sample pack yet? Or your main order? Because I shipped out your main order several weeks ago. You ordered 3 packs, so if USPS lost them, I'm not sure I'll have enough for replacements :/. If you're talking about sample packs, then no one has gotten them yet because I haven't received all the O-rings from the manufacturer yet.
I'll PM you the proof of shipment, and to straighten things out.
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UPDATE: I came home to a nice surprise (I actually expected it lol). The rest of the shipment just got in. I'll be putting together the sample packs, and shipping out the remaining orders in the next few days.
I ordered extra pack A, and only a few extra of F and G. If there's enough of pack B, C, D, and H after the sample packs, I'll put those up for grabs as well. Pack E was too expensive, so I only ordered exact amount for that one.
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Great news! By the way, I could buy your D and H leftovers. But ideally I'd like to receive and try my initial order first :-)
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Thanks for the update!
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Here are a few pics I took. O-rings A through H are the ones offered in this group buy. "X" is the 5mm x 1.5mm offered by kaiserreich, I bought a pack from him just to try out and compare. The two gimped ones you see on the left are the very first O-rings I ordered when I was a newb. Epic size mistake lol.
In order by packs
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/Orings-1.jpg)
In order by size
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/Orings-2.jpg)
Additional pics:
1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0317.jpg) 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0321.jpg) 3 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0323.jpg) 4 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0324.jpg) 5 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0325.jpg) 6 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0326.jpg)
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Woah great pics! I love my H already! Did you try them? How do they feel compared to A ?
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oh no, i was eyeing on pack E.. so no extras for that :(
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Woah great pics! I love my H already! Did you try them? How do they feel compared to A ?
Didn't get to try them yet when you posted last night, but I just played with all of them this morning. H is a rather special case, I think you'll like this one :wink:. It has slightly different characteristics than A. I'll post a subjective review on all of them soon.
oh no, i was eyeing on pack E.. so no extras for that :(
Yeah sorry no extras for pack E, they were too expensive for me to front my own pocket money to buy extras. They'll be available again in round 2.
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Bah, I missed this. Start a new order, O-ring man! :D
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I got the chance to play around with all of them, here are my comments for each of the packs:
pack A: Silicone or EPDM. The most ordered pack. It has a very small key travel reduction, so you may or may not notice it. It dampens the noise pretty well, and eliminates almost all of the “shock” you feel when the key hits the bottom. If you can’t decide which pack to get, try these ones first. Can’t go wrong with these ones, they’re good all around. I’ll be using pack A as a point of reference when comparing with other packs.
pack B: EPDM. These are nearly the same as pack A. Size is identical, but just a tad harder, which can only be felt if you pay very close attention. Otherwise if you mix and match the whole keyboard randomly with pack A and B, you most likely won’t be able to tell which is A or B. Noise dampening is the same as pack A, only difference is the hardness felt when keys hit the bottom. These should have been the same price as pack A, but only reason why it’s more expensive is because I asked for this option after I already got a quote for pack A. I don’t feel there is a large enough difference to justify this as another option based on price and characteristics, so these will be dropped in the next round. Just get pack A if you want something like this one.
pack C: EPDM. There is a noticeable key travel reduction with these, but that’s what it’s meant to do. Thickness is essentially in between pack A and E, so good if you want something thicker than A, but feel that E is too thick. I personally had a hard time deciding to use pack C or E. Otherwise, shock absorption and noise dampening is the same as pack A.
pack D: EPDM. I should rename this to “useless” pack. 1mm thickness is too thin. So although it did nothing to key travel reduction, it also didn’t do anything to noise dampening. The only time I can see this option being useful is if you bought some SP caps with short stems where these will make a difference. I don’t have a full set of SP caps, so I can’t comment on how useful it will be on those caps. However for stock caps and PBT caps from KBC, these had no effect. They will also be dropped in the next round.
pack E: Silicone or EPDM. This one is my personal favorite, but I know it’s not for everyone. It’s the max thickness you can have in an O-ring. It bottoms out just after the key’s registration point. This simulates scissor switches on laptops or thin membrane keyboard, but still retains the “mechanical” feel from MX switches. The main purpose of this pack is to reduce the key travel, but if this is not what you’re looking for, then get pack A.
pack F: Nitrile. Same size has pack A, but noticeable harder. These are only for people that think pack A is too soft or want to retain as much of the bottom out feeling as possible. It will still dampen most of the “clack” noise when the keys hit the bottom, but not as well as pack A. They feel great on PCB mounted switches since there is almost no change in the “natural” feel of bottoming out on the PCB.
pack G: Nitrile. These are the exact opposite from pack A, it’s different in size and softness. It’s essentially pack E, but harder. They’re for those that want a max key travel reduction crips bottom outs, and some noise reduction.
pack H: Silicone. This pack is the most interesting of all of them. It’s the softest feel of all of them and only comes in silicone because the other materials can’t reach this level of softness. These are a tad thinner than A, B, or F, which is what gives it the unique characteristics. Under normal typing conditions, it will eliminate most noise and shocks. However, because of the exact thickness of it, combined with its extra softness, it will feel like there’s no O-ring at all if you hit the keys very hard. This sort of gives the whole keyboard a dampening “film” effect, where the shock and noise dampening properties are there, but thin enough so there are no key travel reduction.
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Nice review of the o-rings, can't wait to try mine out! SHIP THEM ALREADY!! =P
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Any chance to grab some leftovers? Would be interested in 1x Pack A and 1x Pack E.
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I'm enjoying right now my big fat ass o-rings (pack E). It really feels like scissor switches.
For the capslock keycap (pbt keycaps from KBC) it was too thick. I had to put back an o-ring from wasd keyboard. But it now feels exactly the same (no travel).
Thank you again.
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I'm enjoying right now my big fat ass o-rings (pack E). It really feels like scissor switches.
I also enjoy my pack-e rings. ^^
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yeah get some up for sale please :)
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Question for those with full SP sets: How do you go about using the o-rings? Do you put multiple o-rings on a single key due to the longer stems(without the cross thing), or do you just put the o-ring slightly into the stem and then push the key in so that the o-ring doesn't go all the way to the end of the stem?
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Putting the o-ring half-way won't work, it will eventually move out of place. With irregular keys, the best way is to try different o-ring sizes (or stack multiple o-rings) till you reach the desired effect. It's rather tedious work compared to having stock keyboard keys that are more consistent, I don't really like how SP doubleshots don't have the consistent and level cross thing.
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How about putting these o-rings to a Realforce?
(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/devouringone3/0ed93067_2ba6d60ce2aab2ee58530aa7aefe2008.jpg)
The negligible key travel reduction Pack D could be helpful inserted there?:
I would only like to get some use out of my unfortunately discovered useless (no one knew that at the moment of ordering) pack E with negligible key travel reduction.
I understand, considering the geometry of a cherry switch, how a ring of such low thickness will simply go in and out of the switch without changing anything of its feel, because it won't make contact with it, but for a Topre switch it should establish contact against 100% of it's circumference. From there one would only pray for the + shaped structural edges to not cut through the tiny little pack D o-ring.
EPDM has higher wear, tear and abrasion resistance which is good... at least the Pack D is made out of that.
For reference (and Buna-N = Nitrile):
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4238/j05oringsd1gis.png)
And this too: http://www.marcorubber.com/materialguide.htm
I believe that the higher temperature difference means the more and the higher qualities, which is also reflected in the price. The Nitriles, among the cheapest (with only poly-urethane doing worst), have low temperature range, then the EPDMs and then the Silicons.
I will test it as soon as I get my Filco Yellow + Pack D, E, G and H from WhiteFireDragon.
By the way WhiteFireDragon, did we have the choice of picking which of EPDM or Silicon material we wanted for our A and E Pack?
Also, was there a X pack? and what about the LOL sized ones?
*Edit, I kind of answered my own questions : LOL was just for the Lol, and X, I take it that it was only a EPDM or Nitrile version for testing purposes of harder, same sized as pack H, o-rings.
I say harder because the black nitriles have 70A and hardest bottom-out, and the EPDM, in between, also as higher durometers than silicon.
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Also if it turns out that I can't feel my Pack D under my Topre caps, I guess I will simply combo it with another Pack to get something even more refined and customized... and I'll tell you about it eventually.
Your o-rings really look awesome and high-quality, having just read all the post between my order and today. Thank you already even though I haven't receive mine yet, lol.
If you ever make another group buy, WhiteFirePhoenix, I will buy probably come back to buy all the packs I skipped in this first round.
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Yup, stacking o-rings is needed sometimes, I had a key that was somehow too deep and a regular o-ring didn't work, so I stacked a neoprene washer under it. These thin o-rings would work the same way.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]41975[/ATTACH]
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Yup, stacking o-rings is needed sometimes, I had a key that was somehow too deep and a regular o-ring didn't work, so I stacked a neoprene washer under it. These thin o-rings would work the same way.
(Attachment) 41975[/ATTACH]
Sweet, good to know!
I realized just now that the morphology of the cherry MX key cap also had its importance. ty
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It's not as simple as it seems. There are even 2 possible bottom-out points: the keycap hitting the top of the key, or the stem hitting the bottom of the switch housing, whichever comes first. With most keycaps it's the stem that bottoms out, that's why a thin o-ring makes no difference. A thick enough o-ring will make the keycap bottom out before the stem does.
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Oh yeah I just removed a key from my Topre keyboard and noticed that effect.
I first thought that for Cherries it was only the caps and the casing of the switch making contact.
So this calls for a minimal thickness of the o-rings.
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Almost everything was shipped out this past weekend, Monday, or today. Check the OP for your order status. There were a lot of PMs and personal requests, so it slowed me down a lot.
I'll catch up with the rest of the posts in here later.
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got my pack e plus sampler yesterday and immediately went through with the install. what a joy! I am glad I followed your advice regarding pack e being similar to a scissor switch keyboard (which I used previously for many years). it definitely feels a lot alike. they have seemingly already helped with my gaming. besides the familiarity factor, the reduced travel distance allows for quicker repeated key presses. I am really enjoying having less distance between a depressed key and one that is raised because it allows for my fingers to move around the keyboard more rapidly and stops my fingertips from catching on unpressed keys during the transition.
many thanks for all your help WhiteFire!
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^ Glad you like them. I'm using pack E for the very same reason. Good for my occasional gaming (starcraft2) as well since that game requires so many quick double-taps.
Btw, :welcome: to GH
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I have to thank WhiteFireDragon -- he included for me an extra set of pack As! If this was done in error, then I'll be happy to send them back. If this was done intentionally, everyone should know that he is a nice guy!
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got my sample pack today, thanks
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*placeholder for next page* :p
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For round 2 can you ask Piken what his supplier is? They seem to have good prices for the 5 x 1.5mm o-rings.
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UPDATE: round 2 will start in a couple of weeks when I'm on spring break. Currently busy with finals and moving out for the next few weeks.
Any chance to grab some leftovers? Would be interested in 1x Pack A and 1x Pack E.
yeah get some up for sale please :)
I also got PMs to grab the extras I ordered. If you didn't already see the leftover thread, here it is. I'll put it in the OP as well.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?27841-O-Rings-various-sotfness-and-thickness-GB-leftovers
I have to thank WhiteFireDragon -- he included for me an extra set of pack As! If this was done in error, then I'll be happy to send them back. If this was done intentionally, everyone should know that he is a nice guy!
It was not an error, I sent you an extra pack A at my cost. You only ordered pack D and when I tested them right when I got it, they were too thin to be effective for any of the caps I had at the time. Seeing how you're a new forum member, you probably didn't have any SP caps or thick PBT caps from imsto, so pack D is probably useless to you so I gave you a pack A as well.
For round 2 can you ask Piken what his supplier is? They seem to have good prices for the 5 x 1.5mm o-rings.
Will do. Prices will be better than this round, and if I can't get them that low, then I'll stick with this old company, although I'm not very interested in dealing with them again. And hopefully there can be new pack options as well.
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Is it me of the Pack E made out of EDPM is a little sticky? I don't know I've only tried one o-ring briefly but it was more sticky than Nitrile of the same size. Also it left a bit of a residue on the face of the Cherry Switch, but not on the roof of the key cap. The residue was very easy to remove with my finger.
They surely must get less sticky with use, but the residue is annoying :P.
By the way I LOVE my Pack G :P Thank you Whitefiredragon