Author Topic: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output  (Read 2857 times)

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Offline berserkfan

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Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« on: Sat, 09 August 2014, 20:02:51 »
I have a problem. I have some old serial numpads and mice. I would like to adapt them to either ps2 or usb.

How should I go about building that adapter?
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 10 August 2014, 21:23:04 »
I heard from someone that I might be able to use the UART pins on the teensy for this (then use said teensy to interpret & reprogram the layout to your liking) but an off-the-shelf serial to USB converter might work.
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_uart.html
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 10 August 2014, 23:40:32 »
I'm afraid I can neither comprehend the diagram or grasp the complicated photo.
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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 07:26:42 »
I heard from someone that I might be able to use the UART pins on the teensy for this (then use said teensy to interpret & reprogram the layout to your liking) but an off-the-shelf serial to USB converter might work.
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_uart.html

It looks like there are only 3 wires coming off the plug.

I see various "power" and "ground" connections elsewhere, but it doesn't look like there is any power being supplied to the device.

This has been something that I have wondered about. It would be great if I could fabricate another adapter for my Teensy box.

edit - wait, is the power coming in through those 2 LEDs? What are they for, anyway?

 
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 August 2014, 08:16:03 by fohat.digs »
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Offline xavierblak

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 08:27:48 »
I heard from someone that I might be able to use the UART pins on the teensy for this (then use said teensy to interpret & reprogram the layout to your liking) but an off-the-shelf serial to USB converter might work.
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_uart.html

It looks like there are only 3 wires coming off the plug.

I see various "power" and "ground" connections elsewhere, but it doesn't look like there is any power being supplied to the device.

This has been something that I have wondered about. It would be great if I could fabricate another adapter for my Teensy box.

edit - wait, is the power coming in through those 2 LEDs? What are they for, anyway?

The 5 volts is coming from the usb/teensy. The LED's aren't required they are only there to give a visual indication of data being transmitted. Meaning the blink when data is being sent.

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 09:20:00 »
The 5 volts is coming from the usb/teensy.

So "Data" and "Clock" are more or less self-powered? I am accustomed to seeing that 4th wire (Vcc, 5V, whatever) coming off the keyboard plug.

I am not very well-versed in electronics.
"After Governor Rick Scottís election, the Office of General Counsel instructed all state agencies, via  conference call, that they could not use the following words in any official communication:
- Climate Change
- Global Warming
- Sustainability
- Sea Level Rise

There were severe penalties if you did. Bart Bibler (Florida Department of Emergency Preparedness employee) found out the hard way.
He brought up climate change on a conference call with managers, and was ordered to take medical leave and required a psychiatristís note to come back to work!"

Offline xavierblak

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 09:29:32 »
So "Data" and "Clock" are more or less self-powered? I am accustomed to seeing that 4th wire (Vcc, 5V, whatever) coming off the keyboard plug.

I am not very well-versed in electronics.

That's a good point. I wasn't really thinking it through. I doubt this circuit would power the serial device. It's probably depending on a separate power supply. I know possible to power devices from a serial port but my experience is only from self powered devices. I'll do some googling for an answer.

EDIT:
It looks like most old non-power serial devices would grab power from DTR(pin 4) and RTS(pin 7) lines. You could try attaching 5 volts from the teensy to those pins. It may need more power than that though since old serial ports typically ran at 12volts.

I'd probably recommend opening the case and seeing what actual wires are connected to the serial plug. I'd guess you'd probably only have pins 2(data) pin 5(gnd) and the remain pins would be what was used to power it.
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 August 2014, 10:22:06 by xavierblak »

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 11:20:10 »
I don't know much about this. I was hoping for an actually computer engineer to chime in, but I do know a little so I'll post about that.

The diagram is for a "level converter" to convert the "TTL level" signals that the teensy outputs on pins 6&7 (which are transmit and receive). If your serial device is fine with TTL level, just hook it up to pins 6&7, power and ground, call it a day. If you need RS232 compatability, then the use of the diagram is needed to wire up an additional level converter chip.

Now, looking at the MAX232 Datasheet as well as the wikipedia page on RS232 and especially the pinout you can start to see what's going on.

So they are using pins 2, 3, and 5 which correspond to send, receive, and ground. Here is the full pinout table for the normal DB9 / RS232 connector / standard: Note no pin for VCC, power or +12V. I'm pretty sure this is why there is a need for a level converter.

NameAbbr.Pin
Transmitted DataTxD3
Received DataRxD2
Data Terminal ReadyDTR4
Data Carrier DetectDCD1
Data Set ReadyDSR6
Ring IndicatorRI9
Request To SendRTS7
Clear To SendCTS8
Signal GroundG5

Finally, I found the following:
Quote
Limitations of the standard:
No method is specified for sending power to a device. While a small amount of current can be extracted from the DTR and RTS lines, this is only suitable for low power devices such as mice.

So the device would often need it's own power supply. This is the expectation.

---
To answer the question of it being incomprehensible:

The pins on the teensy output serial data directly. Unfortunately, the voltage isn't enough, so the voltage driver chip will convert it to a higher voltage required for serial communication. All the capacitors and jumpers and things are just what the chip needs to work properly.
Quote
The standard specifies a maximum open-circuit voltage of 25 volts: signal levels of Ī5 V, Ī10 V, Ī12 V, and Ī15 V are all commonly seen depending on the voltages available to the line driver circuit. Some RS-232 driver chips have inbuilt circuitry to produce the required voltages from a 3 or 5 volt supply.
'

I'd probably recommend opening the case and seeing what actual wires are connected to the serial plug. I'd guess you'd probably only have pins 2(data) pin 5(gnd) and the remain pins would be what was used to power it.
It's not great, but it's all I have:


I see 5 pins connected. Full album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/with/14700843108/
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 August 2014, 11:38:42 by dorkvader »
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Offline xavierblak

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 11:42:37 »
It's not great, but it's all I have:
Show Image


I see 5 pins connected. Full album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/with/14700843108/

Do you have a multimeter to test which pins they are connect to on the serial connector (assuming a DB9)?

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 12:10:13 »
It's not great, but it's all I have:
Show Image


I see 5 pins connected. Full album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/with/14700843108/

Do you have a multimeter to test which pins they are connect to on the serial connector (assuming a DB9)?

I will check, but I think I may no longer have the cable / pcb / case.

As to tools and test equipment, I definitely have what I need for most things.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 12:43:49 »
Lemme see if I have it right.

1)   If I am lucky (and I might be, since my serial trackpad is not a complicated device involving multiple LEDs and needing power from multiple pins), some of the 9 pins on the serial cable are actually not connected and not used.
a.   If I am that lucky, I would have just pins 2 for data, pin 5 for ground, and presumably 1 pin for power.
b.   If that lucky, I can just connect the pins to the teensy and hope that they work.
2)   If I am not so lucky which is usually the case with Gutz, the voltage outputted by the teensy wonít be enough for the numpad. I will need a voltage driver chip in between, that spider-looking thing in Dorkvaderís linked photo that lies between the teensy and the device. Not to mention there is no standard way of wiring these things up, so I canít just expect Soarerís teensy diagram to work on a serial numpad.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 13:31:33 »
It's entirely possible that you can just get one of these with a driver for your OS (most seem to come with windows drivers)
http://www.expertgps.com/usb-to-serial-adapter.asp
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Offline xavierblak

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 11 August 2014, 13:47:21 »
It's not great, but it's all I have:
Show Image


I see 5 pins connected. Full album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/with/14700843108/

Do you have a multimeter to test which pins they are connect to on the serial connector (assuming a DB9)?

I will check, but I think I may no longer have the cable / pcb / case.

As to tools and test equipment, I definitely have what I need for most things.
If you don't have it any more then I wouldn't worry about it. Each board has the potential to be different. So unless you plan on working on it now then there is no real need.

Lemme see if I have it right.

1)   If I am lucky (and I might be, since my serial trackpad is not a complicated device involving multiple LEDs and needing power from multiple pins), some of the 9 pins on the serial cable are actually not connected and not used.
a.   If I am that lucky, I would have just pins 2 for data, pin 5 for ground, and presumably 1 pin for power.
b.   If that lucky, I can just connect the pins to the teensy and hope that they work.
2)   If I am not so lucky which is usually the case with Gutz, the voltage outputted by the teensy wonít be enough for the numpad. I will need a voltage driver chip in between, that spider-looking thing in Dorkvaderís linked photo that lies between the teensy and the device. Not to mention there is no standard way of wiring these things up, so I canít just expect Soarerís teensy diagram to work on a serial numpad.

1) Yeah I'd be surprised if all 9 pins are connect to the pcb. RS232 has a specific funtion for each pin and most are not needed on a simple device like a keypad.
a. Yes. I'm assuming the one data line. If the computer needs to talk to the keypad there would be a section data line, but that would point a large problem because then the protocol between the pc and keypad is more compliated. Pin 5 would be ground. And 1 or more pins would be used for power.
b. You'll still need some software that takes the serial in and pushes it out the usb port. It would be similar to this program.
2. You'll likely need the rs232 converter either way. You could simplify by using something like this. That would eliminate all the caps and you would just need jumper wires.

One other thing that I don't think I've explained well. The way that these devices are powered is a bit of a hack of the way the serial port was intended to function. The ports have various pins dedicated to signaling data state. If you don't need to use these signals like the keypads don't they can force them to be always on and then use that pin as a power source.

It's entirely possible that you can just get one of these with a driver for your OS (most seem to come with windows drivers)
http://www.expertgps.com/usb-to-serial-adapter.asp

Yes this is possible. Might be worth trying this before getting into anything too complicated. You will need a driver for the cable to be recognized as a serial port. Then you will need a driver for the keypad itself. I don't think windows comes with a default serial keyboard driver.

Offline xavierblak

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 14 August 2014, 23:28:12 »
This thread inspired me to get out an old serial keypad I hadn't gotten around getting working, a genovation micropad 623. The developer manual posted on their site had some interesting info.

Quote
The device uses standard DB-9 pin assignments, ready to be connected you
your host computer.  In order to provide power for the keypad, it is recommended
that the host software drive both DTR and RTS high (+4 to +15v).

Pin Name DB-9 Comment
Receive Data 2 Data from PC to keypad [Note 1]
Transmit Data 3 Data from keypad to PC
DTR 4 Set high to supply power
Ground 5 Ground
RTS 7 Set high to supply power

Note 1: Although there is no data transmission from the host computer to the keypad, the
keypad still requires a connection to the host TX pin (pin 2).  This is to provide a negative
voltage bias so that the keypad can provide a true RS-232 voltage swing on the keypad
data out (pin 3).

But regardless of info I couldn't get my keypad working with a normal serial port. My model was an older one than the one shown in the manual so it might behave differently. Mine looks like this. If anyone has any info on getting these to work let me know.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 22 October 2014, 22:09:13 »
Mild necrotic bump (it's only a couple of months old).

I'm thinking of resuscitating some of my dumb ASCII terminals (e.g. VT220) and connecting one to my server, which only has USB ports.

I found these serial to USB adaptors:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-to-DB9-Serial-Cable-1M-/261581160174?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item3ce773beee
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-2-0-to-9-25-pin-Serial-RS232-Cable-DB9-DB25-Adapter-/360262463655?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item53e150f0a7
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Blue-USB-to-RS232-Serial-DB9-COM-Cable-Adapter-HL340-Cord-for-Arduino-EW-/261359834235?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item3cda42947b
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-to-9-pin-RS232-Cable-COM-Port-Serial-Adapter-Converter-2-0-/331158220814?pt=AU_Television_Accessories&hash=item4d1a91700e
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-2-0-to-RS232-9-Pin-Female-Programming-Serial-Cable-Adapter-for-Vigor-VB-VH-/400729916249?pt=AU_CablesConnectors&hash=item5d4d5d4359

I'm guessing they're all pretty much the same, and reading dv's link in reply#11 above, I guess they all have the same cheap controller in them and different coloured cables/plugs.

Question are:

1. Has anyone tried this sort of adaptor?

2. Would it work under Linux (they all say only Windows driver CD included)?

I could just get one and try it, but I don't want to fry either the terminal or the server.

Thanks!
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Offline Grendel

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 01:57:54 »
Ahem, all a RS232 to USB adapter does is providing a serial port. The USB class driver creates a virtual serial port inside the OS that software can use like it would a "real" serial port. And yes, these work under Linux (Windows needs an INF file linking the adapter w/ Windows USB CDC ACM driver -- sort of native support.) What you really want is a converter that knows that the serial device it's talking to is some form of keyboard and then presents it as a keyboard on the USB side of things. It has to be DIY, the PRJ project is a good start on how to hook up and program the Mega32U4 serial port.

Edit: after a 2nd glance, above's PRJ example is only good for how to hook up the MAX232 chip (unless you want to use the Arduino libs.) Programming the serial interface isn't that hard tho. As for USB CDC, it's basically this stuff.
« Last Edit: Thu, 23 October 2014, 02:07:18 by Grendel »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 04:40:51 »
Why does a universal serial bus connection have to be so non-universal?

That sounds like a bit more work than I had anticipated, and I don't even know if the terminals still work (they have been in a leaky garage for more than a year).

Or are you suggesting that it should just be plug and play?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 06:57:01 »
rowdy, for connecting a serial terminal to a modern PC, you will need a few connectors. First, you need a null modem adapter to connect to the terminal's modem port. Then you need a serial cable, of course. Then run that into a Serial-to-USB adapter, which gives you a serial port on your PC. That's it, as far as the physical connection goes. You may need a gender changer or DB25-to-DB9 adapter in there, too, depending on your setup.

Now, getting the Linux box to speak to the terminal is something else altogether. Luckily, your terminal is a VT220, with backward compatibility to VT100. You can probably find instructions on how to make your PC communicate with the console terminal by searching Google. Although, most of what you will find is for older versions of Linux, which has some features that have been deprecated in modern distros. But it's definitely possible. jwaz got his VT220 working with a RPi running Raspbian. I never could get my WYSE 60 terminal working reliably.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 10:51:16 »
JD has a good answer, and it is over my head.  :( I guess I should just hand wire my serial numpads to teensies and call it a day. That's much easier.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 11:40:06 »
Ahem, all a RS232 to USB adapter does is providing a serial port. The USB class driver creates a virtual serial port inside the OS that software can use like it would a "real" serial port. And yes, these work under Linux (Windows needs an INF file linking the adapter w/ Windows USB CDC ACM driver -- sort of native support.) What you really want is a converter that knows that the serial device it's talking to is some form of keyboard and then presents it as a keyboard on the USB side of things. It has to be DIY, the PRJ project is a good start on how to hook up and program the Mega32U4 serial port.

Edit: after a 2nd glance, above's PRJ example is only good for how to hook up the MAX232 chip (unless you want to use the Arduino libs.) Programming the serial interface isn't that hard tho. As for USB CDC, it's basically this stuff.
Thanks for the good post as always: lots of good info here. You're like a gold mine.

I'll be able to use your info to get started in hopefully converting my IBM_Dials to USB. The LPFK already has some info http://brutman.com/IBM_LPFK/IBM_LPFK.html
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Offline Grendel

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 14:26:26 »
rowdy, for connecting a serial terminal to a modern PC, you will need a few connectors. First, you need a null modem adapter to connect to the terminal's modem port. Then you need a serial cable, of course. Then run that into a Serial-to-USB adapter, which gives you a serial port on your PC. That's it, as far as the physical connection goes. You may need a gender changer or DB25-to-DB9 adapter in there, too, depending on your setup.

Now, getting the Linux box to speak to the terminal is something else altogether. Luckily, your terminal is a VT220, with backward compatibility to VT100. You can probably find instructions on how to make your PC communicate with the console terminal by searching Google. Although, most of what you will find is for older versions of Linux, which has some features that have been deprecated in modern distros. But it's definitely possible. jwaz got his VT220 working with a RPi running Raspbian. I never could get my WYSE 60 terminal working reliably.

Tru dat, forgot that Unix supports serial terminals :) On Windows a USB Serial adapter can at least be used to verify if the terminal works.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 15:56:47 »
I have, shall we say, some familiarity with getting serial devices to work natively, plus a box full of serial cables, null modem adaptors, gender benders, LED serial testers, and possibly a breakout box somewhere ;)

My main query was whether a serial terminal, such as a VT220, would Just Work (tm) through one of the adaptors I listed, or whether anyone has a particular adaptor they know Just Works (tm) in a similar situation.

Alternatively I could try to find a low profile short PCI express serial card, if such a beast exists, but I'd prefer the serial to USB option as I can move it around more easily as demand requires.

Thanks for the input - keep it coming! :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 17:32:03 »
Well, I got close to getting the WYSE console to work under Ubuntu. But the protocol is different enough that it wouldn't work reliably. The serial connection with a USB serial adapter worked just fine, however.

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 17:55:34 »
Well, I got close to getting the WYSE console to work under Ubuntu. But the protocol is different enough that it wouldn't work reliably. The serial connection with a USB serial adapter worked just fine, however.

Sounds promising.

How did you set the serial connection speed in the USB adaptor?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Grendel

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 17:59:52 »
My main query was whether a serial terminal, such as a VT220, would Just Work (tm) through one of the adaptors I listed, or whether anyone has a particular adaptor they know Just Works (tm) in a similar situation.

Yep, it should "Just Work (tm)" :) The serial port on these adapters is fully featured, as is the virtual com port created by the class driver .
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 18:04:41 »
My main query was whether a serial terminal, such as a VT220, would Just Work (tm) through one of the adaptors I listed, or whether anyone has a particular adaptor they know Just Works (tm) in a similar situation.

Yep, it should "Just Work (tm)" :) The serial port on these adapters is fully featured, as is the virtual com port created by the class driver .

Thanks!

I was thinking of the first one in my list, the cost of any of them is fairly low, but this one is at least in the same city and should arrive reasonably soon.

They all have basically the same circuitry in them, right?  Just different coloured plastic shrouds.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Grendel

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 18:12:32 »
Probably using chinese clones of FTDI chips, yes.

On a side note, while looking up FTDI I stumbled across this: Watch That Windows Update: FTDI Drivers Are Killing Fake Chips...
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 19:08:07 »
Probably using chinese clones of FTDI chips, yes.

On a side note, while looking up FTDI I stumbled across this: Watch That Windows Update: FTDI Drivers Are Killing Fake Chips...

LOL one way of getting rid of the competition!

Doesn't worry me - this is for Linux use only (and maybe BSD).

Thanks people :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Online fohat.digs

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 30 October 2014, 17:01:46 »
I thought that I used to be able to use these, but maybe that was just for mice and other simple peripherals.

Also, as I look at them, the gender seems wrong being female-female.
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Offline xavierblak

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 31 October 2014, 08:22:54 »
I thought that I used to be able to use these, but maybe that was just for mice and other simple peripherals.

Also, as I look at them, the gender seems wrong being female-female.

I'd hard to know for sure. But these are probably just passive devices that change the physical connection from mini-din to db9. The hardware to drive the serial connection would be in the device itself.

So for example you'd take a ps/2 mouse that supports this plug it into that serial adapter and when you plug it into your computer the mouse realizes it needs to talk serial and will switch from ps/2 to serial. The adapter just allows it to be plugged into a serial port it's the device itself that has the technology to talk either ps/2 or serial.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 14 November 2014, 23:06:56 »
I ended up getting the first one on my list (above).

When I plugged it in to my Linux box, nothing appeared in messages.  I would have imagined it would have found a new USB device plugged in.

I even tried plugging it in to my Mac - nothing there either.

Has someone used one of these before, and should something appear in the logs?

I still need to clean up my VT220 (or the VT420 or even the Link terminal with the MX blacks in the keyboard) and see if it still works before I can plug something serial in to see if I get a response.

Edit: I've tried it a few times in three different computers (running Linux or OSX), directly connected and via a powered USB hub.  No dice - no kernel messages appear.  Dud cable?
« Last Edit: Sat, 15 November 2014, 20:16:15 by rowdy »
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 25 November 2014, 03:09:56 »
Ten days later and the second cable arrived.  Plugged it in to my main server, and immediately:

Code: [Select]
Nov 25 20:09:39 carbon kernel: [2160862.136199] usb 4-4: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 2
Nov 25 20:09:39 carbon kernel: [2160862.301628] usb 4-4: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.435107] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.435139] USB Serial support registered for generic
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.435197] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial_generic
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.435202] usbserial: USB Serial Driver core
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.441364] USB Serial support registered for ch341-uart
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.441572] ch341 4-4:1.0: ch341-uart converter detected
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.464579] usb 4-4: ch341-uart converter now attached to ttyUSB0
Nov 25 20:09:40 carbon kernel: [2160862.464616] usbcore: registered new interface driver ch341

Yay!  The first cable must have been a dud now.

Next step is to test the VT220.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline rowdy

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Re: Adapting a Serial Device to ps2 or USB output
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 29 November 2014, 04:57:33 »
The good news is that the USB/serial adaptor does work, the bad new is that my VT220 has passed away :(

The screen LED lights, all keyboard LEDs light, and that's it.  No VT220 OK message.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ