thread approval for classifieds section needs to be removed.

[demik]

I hope this doesnt fall on deaf ears but I think its time we do away with this silly "rule".

As you can see here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63031.0 approving threads gives mods and admins an unfair advantage at first dibs on sales (as you can see even the mod in question knows it and laughs about it). And this is one example since the mod posted in the thread, who is to say other sales havent happened through PM.

One alternative is for an admin or mod to lock violating threads until it meets requirements to stay up. OP cannot open admin/mod lock threads, so they will need to provide their proof before being reopened.

I dont think its much to ask that we all get a fair shot.

[esoomenona]

I do agree with the sentiment. It's ridiculous that power can be taken advantage of in this way (though I can't say I expect anything less from modhack). I am genuinely curious if this happened in the past for other items. I can imagine that it has very easily.

I personally do not agree with the locking of the thread after it has been put up. I think the rule serves a purpose, to ensure that people have the item. I think it's a good thing, and allowing threads to flow freely unchecked into the classifieds would only serve to negate the rule as people would buy or trade things quickly before the rule could be enforced. Also, at the same time, modified threads are something to consider. If I start a WTB thread in the classifieds, it would most likely get approved instantly. Then I could easily modify it to my hearts content with no second glance, even if it breaks the rules.

I think one or two people need to be responsible for this, and be the ONLY ones to have access. Personally, I feel that at least one or two mods are capable of being fair and not wishing to purchase things unfairly like this.

Something better needs to be done about this.

[Puddsy]

Staff shouldn't be taking first dibs, and, as far as I can tell, they were never intended to.

Either way, this is an issue that should be looked at.

[SpAmRaY]

Isn't it just a perk of being a mod?

[Puddsy]

Isn't it just a perk of being a mod?

It's not intended to be, but that's how it worked out.

[demik]

Isn't it just a perk of being a mod?

Why should they get perks?

[SpAmRaY]

Isn't it just a perk of being a mod?

Why should they get perks?

For all the hard work they do? 

[jwaz]

lel

[HoffmanMyster]

For the record, whenever I approve a thread and want to buy something, I always add at the bottom of my PM a disclaimer that I approved the thread and had an unfair advantage.  It doesn't necessarily eliminate this sort of thing from happening entirely, but it lets them know that if for example they receive another PM within a minute they should choose to sell to them.

It's also not fair to disallow mods from buying from threads they approve, so I think this is the best alternative.

[jdcarpe]

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

[HoffmanMyster]

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

But then how will you sell things and be able to afford to go to KeyCon? 

[SpAmRaY]

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

But then how will you sell things and be able to afford to go to KeyCon? 

ebay?

[The_Beast]

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

So you want to kill GH?

Without a decent classifieds system, which I'm not saying we have, it would just be noob posters like on reddit. Do you want GH to become reddit? I didn't think so

[esoomenona]

ebay?

Sadly, I don't like eBay as an option. I like this community to buy and sell from, because there is a little more intimacy between us all. eBay is open to everyone, and the chance for bad deals to happen is substantially increased.

[demik]

For the record, whenever I approve a thread and want to buy something, I always add at the bottom of my PM a disclaimer that I approved the thread and had an unfair advantage.  It doesn't necessarily eliminate this sort of thing from happening entirely, but it lets them know that if for example they receive another PM within a minute they should choose to sell to them.

It's also not fair to disallow mods from buying from threads they approve, so I think this is the best alternative.

We could just do away with the approval process period. You wont have tp add disclaimers and run the chance of missing out on a sale either.

Or pick trust worthy mods to run just classifieds.

Which youre the only one I can think of for that position.

[SpAmRaY]

ebay?

Sadly, I don't like eBay as an option. I like this community to buy and sell from, because there is a little more intimacy between us all. eBay is open to everyone, and the chance for bad deals to happen is substantially increased.

I agree eBay sucks.

I guess if GH had no classifieds I'd have to turn to DT.

[demik]

ebay?

Sadly, I don't like eBay as an option. I like this community to buy and sell from, because there is a little more intimacy between us all. eBay is open to everyone, and the chance for bad deals to happen is substantially increased.

Also frag1lity will get mad when he doesnt get what he wants amirite

[jdcarpe]

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

So you want to kill GH?

Without a decent classifieds system, which I'm not saying we have, it would just be noob posters like on reddit. Do you want GH to become reddit? I didn't think so

No, in fact that would solve a major problem of all these redditors flowing into GH.

GH is not the Classifieds. Actually, in an analogy of signal-to-noise, Making Stuff Together is signal, with the entirety of the remainder as noise.

[frosty]

Just like TF2 outpost, which is a centralized trading/selling/buying/etc site for Team Fortress 2 in game items, why not a GH outpost?

and then there is backpack.tf!
It's where people check prices on various items whose price is voted by members! (but the voting system imo is really really dirty seems to me like there is a underground black market for in-game stuff)

Just a suggestion tho...
I feel that the current classifieds is gr9 so yeap.

[SpAmRaY]

So when a mod/admin posts a classifieds thread does another mod have to approve it first?

[exitfire401]

So when a mod/admin posts a classifieds thread does another mod have to approve it first?

If it's a new thread, then yes. If it's based off of a pre-existing approved thread, then no.

[Grendel]

Leave it as-is. Let the mods have 1st dibs for the few things they want. Next one is mine

[IvanIvanovich]

I've never abused powers here before. I was transparent about it. It was a set I had been hoping they would sell for awhile... and I gave it up. Can't really see how it's a bad guy thing.

[jwaz]

For the record, whenever I approve a thread and want to buy something, I always add at the bottom of my PM a disclaimer that I approved the thread and had an unfair advantage.  It doesn't necessarily eliminate this sort of thing from happening entirely, but it lets them know that if for example they receive another PM within a minute they should choose to sell to them.

It's also not fair to disallow mods from buying from threads they approve, so I think this is the best alternative.

We could just do away with the approval process period. You wont have tp add disclaimers and run the chance of missing out on a sale either.

Or pick trust worthy mods to run just classifieds.

Which youre the only one I can think of for that position.

rude

[HoffmanMyster]

For the record, whenever I approve a thread and want to buy something, I always add at the bottom of my PM a disclaimer that I approved the thread and had an unfair advantage.  It doesn't necessarily eliminate this sort of thing from happening entirely, but it lets them know that if for example they receive another PM within a minute they should choose to sell to them.

It's also not fair to disallow mods from buying from threads they approve, so I think this is the best alternative.

We could just do away with the approval process period. You wont have tp add disclaimers and run the chance of missing out on a sale either.

Or pick trust worthy mods to run just classifieds.

Which youre the only one I can think of for that position.

rude

Yeah.  If you can't trust the based mod, who can you trust?   

[demik]

For the record, whenever I approve a thread and want to buy something, I always add at the bottom of my PM a disclaimer that I approved the thread and had an unfair advantage.  It doesn't necessarily eliminate this sort of thing from happening entirely, but it lets them know that if for example they receive another PM within a minute they should choose to sell to them.

It's also not fair to disallow mods from buying from threads they approve, so I think this is the best alternative.

We could just do away with the approval process period. You wont have tp add disclaimers and run the chance of missing out on a sale either.

Or pick trust worthy mods to run just classifieds.

Which youre the only one I can think of for that position.

rude

Momma told me not to trust thugs.

I've never abused powers here before. I was transparent about it. It was a set I had been hoping they would sell for awhile... and I gave it up. Can't really see how it's a bad guy thing.

Wonder how much this thread or my comments had to do with it.

We can skip this whole problem by getting rid of the stupid approval.

[tjcaustin]

For the record, whenever I approve a thread and want to buy something, I always add at the bottom of my PM a disclaimer that I approved the thread and had an unfair advantage.  It doesn't necessarily eliminate this sort of thing from happening entirely, but it lets them know that if for example they receive another PM within a minute they should choose to sell to them.

It's also not fair to disallow mods from buying from threads they approve, so I think this is the best alternative.

We could just do away with the approval process period. You wont have tp add disclaimers and run the chance of missing out on a sale either.

Or pick trust worthy mods to run just classifieds.

Which youre the only one I can think of for that position.

rude

Yeah.  If you can't trust the based mod, who can you trust?   

The one that's powered by cheese, beer and big hot dogs?

[demik]

If there is one thing i learned from stone cold steve austin is a) you drink beer by throwing it on yourself and b) dont trust anybody. Especially people with power.

Wait thats two things.

[dante]

If there is one thing i learned from stone cold steve austin is a) you drink beer by throwing it on yourself and b) dont trust anybody. Especially people with power.

Wait thats two things.

[HoffmanMyster]

big hot dogs

:|

[IvanIvanovich]

As my own personal opinion, I find that the classifieds approval process is additional steps that shouldn't be needed. I think it wastes more time than anything.

[Tiramisuu]

Keyboards should be FREE

[kalrand]

I don't really see a problem with mods getting first dibs on the classifieds.

[Krogenar]

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

I agree. This is a community, not a marketplace! /troll

It was funny and very ironic that some people don't believe being a mod should carry ANY perks whatsoever.

Isn't it just a perk of being a mod?

Why should they get perks?

For all the hard work they do? 

 )

Alternate, non-troll idea: Invest in a programmer to create the scripting necessary to make Classified moderation handled by the forum software itself. How hard would it be to make a dialog system that lists the items, requires a photo upload, etc.? A few hundred? Obviously the community cares about the marketplace, so improve the marketplace.

[demik]

I don't really see a problem with mods getting first dibs on the classifieds.

And why is that? They are no different than we are other than the title and few powers. What makes them special that they can get whatever they want and we get second choice? None of the mods have been community nominated from my understanding. Not all of us like them.

It would be better if we eliminated the Classifieds altogether, actually. That's my proposal. No troll.

I agree. This is a community, not a marketplace! /troll

It was funny and very ironic that some people don't believe being a mod should carry ANY perks whatsoever.

Isn't it just a perk of being a mod?

Why should they get perks?

For all the hard work they do? 

 )

Alternate, non-troll idea: Invest in a programmer to create the scripting necessary to make Classified moderation handled by the forum software itself. How hard would it be to make a dialog system that lists the items, requires a photo upload, etc.? A few hundred? Obviously the community cares about the marketplace, so improve the marketplace.

Explain the irony oh wise one. Its going over my head.

[Krogenar]

Explain the irony oh wise one. Its going over my head.

The irony is that you want a perfectly 'fair' system for the sake of filthy lucre.

I thought these two principles were diametrically opposed?

The fact that moderators devote their free time to your enjoyment of the community entitles them to exactly nothing. I find it funny that your answer to Ray's question was so quick and decisive. Mods deserve no perks at all. Which, as any mature adult knows is not how the world works.

So what should a moderator do when they approve a thread that happens to be selling keyboard 'XYZ' that they desperately want? They should wait a day to make sure no one else wants it first? Is that a reasonable expectation? Should we create a timetable for how long a moderator should wait before they make a bid? Should they be banned from making any purchases on the forum? None of those solutions seem fair to the moderators.

I'm not saying I necessarily think it's right for mods to use the approval process to get 'first dibs' on items, I just think their reactions are completely predictable and normal, and not indicative of corruption. And, I don't see how they could handle it ethically aside from letting someone else take the item, or barring themselves from all economic activity -- a level of selflessness that no one should have to bear.

So take it out of their hands using programming. Or we remove those naughty mods, and continue our quest for the most selfless moderators we can find -- which I don't think are out there.

[Halverson]

Ok fine. I'll become a mod to handle approving all classifieds threads. I don't want anything so you can trust me.

[kalrand]

I don't really see a problem with mods getting first dibs on the classifieds.

And why is that? They are no different than we are other than the title and few powers. What makes them special that they can get whatever they want and we get second choice? None of the mods have been community nominated from my understanding. Not all of us like them.

1) If something is so desirable that it's going to be immediately snapped up by the first person, then the person selling it has materially underpriced the item. So that's kind of on them.

If I put up a space cadet keyboard, at $20, I'm the idiot. If I put it up for $5,000, you're not going to want it.

2) And yea, it's a decent perk for volunteers who otherwise work for nothing. And this isn't a democracy, it's an internet forum.

[SpAmRaY]

Ok fine. I'll become a mod to handle approving all classifieds threads. I don't want anything so you can trust me.

What about them HO's??

[Halverson]

Ok fine. I'll become a mod to handle approving all classifieds threads. I don't want anything so you can trust me.

What about them HO's??

As much as I love my HOs, with great power comes great responsibility. I suppose that is my mod perk. Being a great mod who keeps order and people love me.

[demik]

Explain the irony oh wise one. Its going over my head.

The irony is that you want a perfectly 'fair' system for the sake of filthy lucre.

I thought these two principles were diametrically opposed?

The fact that moderators devote their free time to your enjoyment of the community entitles them to exactly nothing. I find it funny that your answer to Ray's question was so quick and decisive. Mods deserve no perks at all. Which, as any mature adult knows is not how the world works.

So what should a moderator do when they approve a thread that happens to be selling keyboard 'XYZ' that they desperately want? They should wait a day to make sure no one else wants it first? Is that a reasonable expectation? Should we create a timetable for how long a moderator should wait before they make a bid? Should they be banned from making any purchases on the forum? None of those solutions seem fair to the moderators.

I'm not saying I necessarily think it's right for mods to use the approval process to get 'first dibs' on items, I just think their reactions are completely predictable and normal, and not indicative of corruption. And, I don't see how they could handle it ethically aside from letting someone else take the item, or barring themselves from all economic activity -- a level of selflessness that no one should have to bear.

So take it out of their hands using programming. Or we remove those naughty mods, and continue our quest for the most selfless moderators we can find -- which I don't think are out there.

Nope. I also dont think its fair for them to wait. Thread approval was a solution for a problem that wasnt there. It was a stupid decision for classifieds (i find the other rules perfectly fine). Even a mod thinks its a waste of time. You want to give them perks? Fine. They dont have to post tagged pics. They dont need to follow the bump rules.

I don't really see a problem with mods getting first dibs on the classifieds.

And why is that? They are no different than we are other than the title and few powers. What makes them special that they can get whatever they want and we get second choice? None of the mods have been community nominated from my understanding. Not all of us like them.

1) If something is so desirable that it's going to be immediately snapped up by the first person, then the person selling it has materially underpriced the item. So that's kind of on them.

If I put up a space cadet keyboard, at $20, I'm the idiot. If I put it up for $5,000, you're not going to want it.

2) And yea, it's a decent perk for volunteers who otherwise work for nothing. And this isn't a democracy, it's an internet forum.

I fail to see what price has to do with this. And no its not a decent perk because it gives them advantage over the rest of the community. Nobody is forcing them to stay mods. But it looks like im the only one that doesnt glorify their "work" so im guessing this is a pointless battle.

[HipsterPunks]

Ok fine. I'll become a mod to handle approving all classifieds threads. I don't want anything so you can trust me.

What about them HO's??

As much as I love my HOs, with great power comes great responsibility. I suppose that is my mod perk. Being a great mod who keeps order and people love me.

i dont think it would be fair to grant mod powers to someone with under ten posts and whom joined the forum yesterday 

[Halverson]

Ok fine. I'll become a mod to handle approving all classifieds threads. I don't want anything so you can trust me.

What about them HO's??

As much as I love my HOs, with great power comes great responsibility. I suppose that is my mod perk. Being a great mod who keeps order and people love me.

i dont think it would be fair to grant mod powers to someone with under ten posts and whom joined the forum yesterday 

Well, I am a deity who was just reborn.

[SpAmRaY]

Ok fine. I'll become a mod to handle approving all classifieds threads. I don't want anything so you can trust me.

What about them HO's??

As much as I love my HOs, with great power comes great responsibility. I suppose that is my mod perk. Being a great mod who keeps order and people love me.

i dont think it would be fair to grant mod powers to someone with under ten posts and whom joined the forum yesterday 

But new guys got no history, no agenda......amiright?

[nubbinator]

So what should a moderator do when they approve a thread that happens to be selling keyboard 'XYZ' that they desperately want? They should wait a day to make sure no one else wants it first? Is that a reasonable expectation? Should we create a timetable for how long a moderator should wait before they make a bid? Should they be banned from making any purchases on the forum? None of those solutions seem fair to the moderators.

They should ask another mod to approve the thread at some future time unknown to them and watch the forum for the approved thread like everyone else.

I mod /r/buildapc and organized most of our 100k subscribers contest.  I worked my ass off for it and got nothing for it and deliberately kept myself out of the contest.  If you're given a position of authority, sometimes you have to give up stuff, even stuff you really want, to maintain the appearance of being ethical and fair.  Anytime you do something like approve a thread and immediately say you want something from the sale thread, you call into question your objectivity and fairness.

Now don't get me wrong, Ivan is a great and valued member of the community and I'm not bashing him, I'm just explaining my ethical perspective on it as a mod of another large community.

[FrostyToast]

So what should a moderator do when they approve a thread that happens to be selling keyboard 'XYZ' that they desperately want? They should wait a day to make sure no one else wants it first? Is that a reasonable expectation? Should we create a timetable for how long a moderator should wait before they make a bid? Should they be banned from making any purchases on the forum? None of those solutions seem fair to the moderators.

They should ask another mod to approve the thread at some future time unknown to them and watch the forum for the approved thread like everyone else.

I mod /r/buildapc and organized most of our 100k subscribers contest.  I worked my ass off for it and got nothing for it and deliberately kept myself out of the contest.  If you're given a position of authority, sometimes you have to give up stuff, even stuff you really want, to maintain the appearance of being ethical and fair.  Anytime you do something like approve a thread and immediately say you want something from the sale thread, you call into question your objectivity and fairness.

Now don't get me wrong, Ivan is a great and valued member of the community and I'm not bashing him, I'm just explaining my ethical perspective on it as a mod of another large community.

If some mod was dedicated enough to be a jerk, they could easily make a program to detect a thread with the title they saw and have a PM sent immediately once that happens.
Although I would assume doing anything to circumvent these things would result in immediate revoking of privileges.

[Pliny]

...2) And yea, it's a decent perk for volunteers who otherwise work for nothing...

This. I don't think that's stressed enough. It's easy to bash the "The Man," but they are volunteers. You couldn't pay me to do it...

So I withdraw my application 

[HoffmanMyster]

So I withdraw my application 

I already threw it away, don't worry.    heh

[exitfire401]

...2) And yea, it's a decent perk for volunteers who otherwise work for nothing...

This. I don't think that's stressed enough. It's easy to bash the "The Man," but they are volunteers. You couldn't pay me to do it...

So I withdraw my application 

Believe me, after dealing with the stupid **** i deal with at work, the stuff i have to deal with here is a walk in the park.

[noisyturtle]

Didn't read any posts, just agreeing with OP. No reason to have the approval process, just remove any bull**** threads, mods. What, are you trying to phase out your jobs?