Silencing Rings for Topre-Switch Keyboards

[Hypersphere]

I've finally found the time to complete the testing of my silencing rings for Topre-switch keyboards. They have been tested on HHKB Pro 2 and RF 87U keyboards, and (IMO) they work at least as well as the rings used in the Type-S HHKB Pro 2 and the silent version of the RF 87U.

Rings are mode from microcellular polyurethane foam supported with poly(ethylene terephthalate) (PET). Precision laser-cut to the following dimensions:

11 mm OD x 8.50 ID x 0.5 mm thick

Sold only in lots of the following sizes on eBay:

63 (for HHKB Pro 2, 60 + 3 extra), $45.00 + shipping.
69 (for FC660C, 66 + 3 extra), $49.50 + shipping.
90 (for RF87U or Novatouch TKL, 87 + 3 extra), $65.25 + shipping
107 (for RF104U, 104 + 3 extra), $78.00 + shipping

For some reason, the links on GH did not work. Please go to eBay and search for "silencing rings", which should take you to the listings. Otherwise, please try this new link to see if it works:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/katesattic2/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Rings only. Sliders not included.

Installation: remove sliders from keyboard, slip ring over slider with shiny side up, reinsert slider plus ring into keyboard. Use one ring per switch, including one ring on center of switch for modifier keys.

SOLD "as is". No returns accepted. Will ship to USA, Western Europe, and the UK.

For illustrations, please see the eBay listings.

There is also a thread on DT that has additional information:

http://deskthority.net/help-f53/silencing-rings-for-topre-rf-or-hhkb-t10051.html

[SpAmRaY]

Links don't seem to work. And I'd be all over this but that price kills it completely.

[suicidal_orange]

Potentially interested but do you have a video to compare the sound to stock or would you be willing to send samples to someone local for a review?  It's a lot of money to spend on something new and unproven...

[Hypersphere]

Links don't seem to work. And I'd be all over this but that price kills it completely.

Sorry about the links. You are correct -- they don't seem to be working, so I have removed the links.

You can get there by going to eBay and searching for "silencing rings".

Regarding the price, the original cost for a minimum run of 100 rings was $1.95 apiece. I got the price down by increasing the number of the production run. This is a specialty material that is laser cut, hence the price.

I've installed the rings in a standard HHKB, and it sounds and feels identical to a Type-S.

If you are interested, more details can be found on DT, and I will add to the DT thread when I can find the time:

http://deskthority.net/help-f53/silencing-rings-for-topre-rf-or-hhkb-t10051.html

[atectatifern]

Ordered a set -- wanted to try the other mod but did not look forward to spending hours ironing landing pads. Looking forward to silencing this loud Novatouch!

[Hypersphere]

@atectatifern: Please let us know how the rings work out for you on a Novatouch. I have tested the rings on an RF87U and a HHKB Pro 2, but all I have done with the Novatouch is determine that the rings will fit on the switch stem. I think the switches for the modifiers might be a different design in the NT from those in the RF or HH, so that the rings might not work for the modifier switches in the NT as they do in the RF or HH.

For my HHKB, I used a single ring for the modifiers and spacebar, and this seems to work fine. I also lubed the modifiers and spacebar switches. In addition, I added some small squares of self-adhesive foam strips on top of the rubberized contact points under the HHKB spacebar.

[Bromono]

@atectatifern: Please let us know how the rings work out for you on a Novatouch. I have tested the rings on an RF87U and a HHKB Pro 2, but all I have done with the Novatouch is determine that the rings will fit on the switch stem. I think the switches for the modifiers might be a different design in the NT from those in the RF or HH, so that the rings might not work for the modifier switches in the NT as they do in the RF or HH.

For my HHKB, I used a single ring for the modifiers and spacebar, and this seems to work fine. I also lubed the modifiers and spacebar switches. In addition, I added some small squares of self-adhesive foam strips on top of the rubberized contact points under the HHKB spacebar.

do they impede the tactility of the switch at all?

[Hypersphere]

I find it difficult to dissect out tactility from the overall typing experience, which includes aural feedback. For example, when I first tested a Type-S HHKB Pro 2, I thought that the tactility was different from that of a standard HHKB Pro 2. However, when I tested them while wearing ear protectors, I found the tactility about the same between the two models.

Likewise, when comparing a standard HHKB Pro 2 vs a HHKB Pro 2 with the silencing rings installed, if I try to separate out the tactility from the difference in sound, I think that the tactility is about the same between the two. This is probably because the silencing rings dampen the return stroke rather than the down stroke of the key switch.

Not everyone prefers the sound of a damped Topre switch over the sound of a standard Topre switch. I wasn't sure that I liked it at first, but after using the damped version for a few weeks, I now prefer using my HHKB with the silencing rings installed.
 

[Bromono]

I find it difficult to dissect out tactility from the overall typing experience, which includes aural feedback. For example, when I first tested a Type-S HHKB Pro 2, I thought that the tactility was different from that of a standard HHKB Pro 2. However, when I tested them while wearing ear protectors, I found the tactility about the same between the two models.

Likewise, when comparing a standard HHKB Pro 2 vs a HHKB Pro 2 with the silencing rings installed, if I try to separate out the tactility from the difference in sound, I think that the tactility is about the same between the two. This is probably because the silencing rings dampen the return stroke rather than the down stroke of the key switch.

Not everyone prefers the sound of a damped Topre switch over the sound of a standard Topre switch. I wasn't sure that I liked it at first, but after using the damped version for a few weeks, I now prefer using my HHKB with the silencing rings installed.

Most silencers keep the switch in a actuated state. When compressed, that initial bump at the very top of the topre switch gets taken away when the silencing pads are to thick. I bought a set to try it out on my RF.
Do you know if these can be ironed at all if they are to thick?

[Hypersphere]

The materials in these rings are very different from the EK pads. I would not recommend trying to iron the silencing rings.

[Bromono]

The materials in these rings are very different from the EK pads. I would not recommend trying to iron the silencing rings.

Got it. Well thanks for doing this. I have tried a lot of different ways but either the clack is still kinda there or it takes away from the tactility of the switch. If these feel like what I am hoping they feel like I'll probably buy a set for my HHKB

[Dreamre]

Import charges really kills it for buyers in Canada.

[GL1TCH3D]

If anyone in Canada wants a set I can bring it up in october. Family is visiting the USA and these are tiny so it would be easy to bring back from the trip.

As for the rings themselves. Why didn't you try a group buy?

I imagine if there was a large enough order the price per unit could have been decreased significantly.

[atectatifern]

@atectatifern: Please let us know how the rings work out for you on a Novatouch . . .

I got them today and stayed up way too late putting them on. The difference is night and day. I made recordings with my phone (sorry) and will post them when I've had some sleep and get some time (I hope tomorrow).

The diameter of the rings for the non-stabilzed key sliders is perfect. Not so tight they're hard to get on but not so loose they fall off when putting the sliders back on. For the stabilized keys, the sliders are a little smaller so the rings are a tiny bit loose but still do the trick as far as I'm concerned.

The spacebar sounds really jarring now (I only put rings on the sliders; I didn't lube or try to do anything with the other parts of the stabilized keys) but the rest of the keys are very quiet. I haven't noticed any difference in key travel.

Also, a shout out to Jetski (not sure if here on GH) for posting his instructions for NT disassembly/reassembly. Although his instructions are for the EK landing pads, his narrative and pictures gave me much more confidence in the process. They're here: http://imgur.com/a/6sg9f.

Thanks for making these available--there is no way I would have ironed the EK pads!

[Hypersphere]

Glad the rings worked well for you.

Regarding the spacebar, I silenced mine by doing three things. First, I installed a silencing ring on the switch. Second, I lubed the switch and stabilizers. Third, I installed small squares cut from "Do-it" brand foam strips (1/2 x 2-3/8 inches) that I purchased from a Carpenter Brothers hardware store (USA) on top of the rubber stops for the spacebar on the top side of the case. Now the spacebar makes an agreeable "thunk" instead of an annoying "click-clack".

[iamtootallforthis]

Really want to pick some up, but the cost is making the decision a tough one.

[Blackhawk]

Really want to pick some up, but the cost is making the decision a tough one.

I would love to try them out as well, however the price + shipping and import taxes to Europe is a real killer.

[iamtootallforthis]

Really want to pick some up, but the cost is making the decision a tough one.

I would love to try them out as well, however the price + shipping and import taxes to Europe is a real killer.

Well I may be coming to Denmark this winter to visit friends in Copenhagen. So I could always bring them with me, but that would be a while.

[Blackhawk]

Really want to pick some up, but the cost is making the decision a tough one.

I would love to try them out as well, however the price + shipping and import taxes to Europe is a real killer.

Well I may be coming to Denmark this winter to visit friends in Copenhagen. So I could always bring them with me, but that would be a while.

Oh wow, what a small world. That is very kind of you to offer, I might consider it. Let me know if you choose to place an order.

[iamtootallforthis]

Really want to pick some up, but the cost is making the decision a tough one.

I would love to try them out as well, however the price + shipping and import taxes to Europe is a real killer.

Well I may be coming to Denmark this winter to visit friends in Copenhagen. So I could always bring them with me, but that would be a while.

Oh wow, what a small world. That is very kind of you to offer, I might consider it. Let me know if you choose to place an order.

I probably will place an order. I am looking into getting a RF 55g soon so I want them for that.

[Dreamre]

Is there a way of having the import fees removed entirely? I'm sure that would entice a lot more people purchasing these...

[Air tree]

You should give a thought about doing a group buy for these. It could possibly lower the price, so it might be more alluring to some..

At the moment the price is a bit much for me...

I'm pretty sure it would garner a good few orders if the price was right...

[SpAmRaY]

You should give a thought about doing a group buy for these. It could possibly lower the price, so it might be more alluring to some..

At the moment the price is a bit much for me...

I'm pretty sure it would garner a good few orders if the price was right...

This so much. I want these but for my full size realforce boards its like paying for half of another keyboard.

[atectatifern]

Here are Dropbox links to before and after audio files (.ogg) from my Novatouch with Hack'd by Geeks SA:

Before: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109708757/Novatouch_before_silencing.ogg
After: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109708757/Novatouch_after_silencing.ogg

[GL1TCH3D]

Is there a way of having the import fees removed entirely? I'm sure that would entice a lot more people purchasing these...

As a postal clerk, he would need to ship them as a gift valued at under $50 CDN to be guaranteed of no charges.

Considering the exchange rate, that's about $37 USD.

Otherwise like I mentioned before, I'll be in the USA in october if you want me to bring you back a pack.

[Hypersphere]

For those who might be interested, I have posted some audio and waveforms for assorted keyboards over on DT. The comparisons include a stock HHKB vs a 45g and 55g HHKB with silencing rings. Here is the link:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/audio-and-waveforms-of-assorted-keyboards-t11269.html

[deci]

Hey just wanted to post here that I grabbed a set of these and put them on my HHKB.

It shortens the travel of the switch slightly still but it's definitely less than dental bands or ironed soft landing pads (unless you cut the pads perfectly which takes forever).

I have modded my HHKB with dental bands and ironed landing pads in the past and removed them afterword (even though i loved the sound) due to the reduced travel.
These rings however will be staying on there as it's just close enough to the original feel for me.

Hypershpere I was actually talking so some chinese company about mass producing something very similar to this as well, you just saved me a lot of time
If you do another run of these I'll probably grab another set to mod a TKL. 

TLDR: These are really good and highly recommended!
 

[Hypersphere]

Hey just wanted to post here that I grabbed a set of these and put them on my HHKB.

It shortens the travel of the switch slightly still but it's definitely less than dental bands or ironed soft landing pads (unless you cut the pads perfectly which takes forever).

I have modded my HHKB with dental bands and ironed landing pads in the past and removed them afterword (even though i loved the sound) due to the reduced travel.
These rings however will be staying on there as it's just close enough to the original feel for me.

Hypershpere I was actually talking so some chinese company about mass producing something very similar to this as well, you just saved me a lot of time
If you do another run of these I'll probably grab another set to mod a TKL. 

TLDR: These are really good and highly recommended!

Glad the rings worked out well for you.

There should be no reduction in key travel on the downstroke.

All the rings from the first production run have now been sold. There seems to be continuing interest, so I will be setting up for another batch. I might run an interest check first. Because I started this over on Deskthority (DT), I will probably do the IC over there as well to keep things as simple as possible.

[iamtootallforthis]

Hey just wanted to post here that I grabbed a set of these and put them on my HHKB.

It shortens the travel of the switch slightly still but it's definitely less than dental bands or ironed soft landing pads (unless you cut the pads perfectly which takes forever).

I have modded my HHKB with dental bands and ironed landing pads in the past and removed them afterword (even though i loved the sound) due to the reduced travel.
These rings however will be staying on there as it's just close enough to the original feel for me.

Hypershpere I was actually talking so some chinese company about mass producing something very similar to this as well, you just saved me a lot of time
If you do another run of these I'll probably grab another set to mod a TKL. 

TLDR: These are really good and highly recommended!

Glad the rings worked out well for you.

There should be no reduction in key travel on the downstroke.

All the rings from the first production run have now been sold. There seems to be continuing interest, so I will be setting up for another batch. I might run an interest check first. Because I started this over on Deskthority (DT), I will probably do the IC over there as well to keep things as simple as possible.

Please try to do a group buy. I know a greater amount of people would buy for a lesser price. I know I would be in if the price was cheaper. I would also but significantly more.

[Air tree]

Hey just wanted to post here that I grabbed a set of these and put them on my HHKB.

It shortens the travel of the switch slightly still but it's definitely less than dental bands or ironed soft landing pads (unless you cut the pads perfectly which takes forever).

I have modded my HHKB with dental bands and ironed landing pads in the past and removed them afterword (even though i loved the sound) due to the reduced travel.
These rings however will be staying on there as it's just close enough to the original feel for me.

Hypershpere I was actually talking so some chinese company about mass producing something very similar to this as well, you just saved me a lot of time
If you do another run of these I'll probably grab another set to mod a TKL. 

TLDR: These are really good and highly recommended!

Glad the rings worked out well for you.

There should be no reduction in key travel on the downstroke.

All the rings from the first production run have now been sold. There seems to be continuing interest, so I will be setting up for another batch. I might run an interest check first. Because I started this over on Deskthority (DT), I will probably do the IC over there as well to keep things as simple as possible.

Please try to do a group buy. I know a greater amount of people would buy for a lesser price. I know I would be in if the price was cheaper. I would also but significantly more.

+1

This is the big thing for me, the price. I would probably buy close to 250, if the price was lower.

[Bromono]

I used them in my real force. They do slightly impede the travel of the switch. I find it to be on par with the thinnest dental bands. (My hhkb has really thin dental bands) I feel like these silent the switch better then dental bands though. I for some reason didn't like them on the real force 55g and am to lazy to remove the dental bands off my hhkb to put them on there. I really love the feel of the 55g with no impedance of the actuation. But I do like the feeling of it on my hhkb. Possibly down the road I'll find motivation to try them on the hhkb....

[korrelate]

these are the only things keeping the pos that is the novatoch out of my local f****i*g landfill.

with these on the stems the board goes from completely unusable to quite nice.

YMMV but IMHO no kbd in excess of 80 bucks should sound like you're rummaging throug a box of legos when you're using it (nor should it sound like a steel f***i*g drum from Jamaica either, Diatec, you pretenders).

[Hypersphere]

Several people have been asking about the price for the silencing rings.

Although there are some economies of scale, the costs of premium materials and precision laser cutting are high. For example, if only 100 rings were made at a time, the cost per ring would be $1.95. I haven't tried to calculate my own R&D costs, but I spent a considerable amount of time trying out a number of different materials and cutting methods, which also involved costs for acquiring cutting tools.

Another way of looking at it is the cost of buying a standard versus silenced keyboard. Silent RF keyboards are no longer available, at least in the USA. The cost differential for a Type-S vs standard HHKB is currently $84 or $1.40 per key (based on current sale prices). For non-sale prices the differential is $88 or about $1.46 per key.

Of course, the price differential of a Type-S vs standard HHKB includes the installation costs of the rings, whereas a DIY silencing requires the end-user to install the rings himself. Even if this were to cut the cost in half, this would work out to 70 to 73 cents per ring.

I have already searched long and hard for the best material and cutting method for silencing rings for Topre switches, and I would not want to compromise quality by trying to use a cheaper material or cutting method.

Other costs include the cut that eBay takes. I've discussed the situation with my wife, who is handling the eBay sales, and despite the drawbacks of eBay, unfortunately neither she nor I has the time to use alternative sales and distribution methods.

With these considerations in mind, I regret it is probably not going to be possible to reduce costs of the rings themselves. This leaves import taxes and shipping as the other contributions to the cost for the end-user. I have thought of mechanisms such as a Group Buy or using a proxy, but unfortunately I would not have the time to organize and implement these methods.

For the second batch of rings, I will try my best to cut costs without compromising quality, but I anticipate that it will not be possible to reduce the cost by much if at all.

It will take some time to produce the next batch of silencing rings, but I will post an update when they are ready.

Thanks to all for your understanding, patience, and support!

[jiexi]

@atectatifern: Please let us know how the rings work out for you on a Novatouch . . .

I got them today and stayed up way too late putting them on. The difference is night and day. I made recordings with my phone (sorry) and will post them when I've had some sleep and get some time (I hope tomorrow).

The diameter of the rings for the non-stabilzed key sliders is perfect. Not so tight they're hard to get on but not so loose they fall off when putting the sliders back on. For the stabilized keys, the sliders are a little smaller so the rings are a tiny bit loose but still do the trick as far as I'm concerned.

The spacebar sounds really jarring now (I only put rings on the sliders; I didn't lube or try to do anything with the other parts of the stabilized keys) but the rest of the keys are very quiet. I haven't noticed any difference in key travel.

Also, a shout out to Jetski (not sure if here on GH) for posting his instructions for NT disassembly/reassembly. Although his instructions are for the EK landing pads, his narrative and pictures gave me much more confidence in the process. They're here: http://imgur.com/a/6sg9f.

Thanks for making these available--there is no way I would have ironed the EK pads!

Hi, you are very much welcome. Thank you for the kind words.

[Hypersphere]

Update: The first round of silencing rings has sold out. I've ordered materials for a second round. It might take a few weeks for the rings to be ready, but I will announce here when they are available again.

[GL1TCH3D]

I imagine a company would have been able to reduce costs a lot more than you buying your own equipment and materials.

That's why people are questioning the price. A lot of people are in the market to silence their Topre boards and would have easily been in for these if they were a lot cheaper. I wouldn't be surprised if a group buy broke 1000+ units for less than $0.40 each. Of course I don't know what a company would charge to make these or how many would be required to bring the price down enough.

[korrelate]

I appreciate your work here hypersphere... that's why i jumped on this... they are pricey but the result is totally worth it. heck, i had already spent a fair amount of time searching for materials and i already tried a couple of different kinds of punch so when i first saw you had cracked this nut i was all ears. at first I balked at the price but after thinking about how much time and money i had already spent - without results -- i did the math and realized that by just buying your i was going to come out ahead.

and your results are pretty damn good i must say. many thanks!

[Hypersphere]

Glad to know of the abiding interest in the Silencing Rings. I trust that people will understand that to get this right, it required quite a lot of research, development, and testing, all of which comes at a cost in addition to the price of materials and production. Things are getting very busy with the impeding start of the new academic year and some travel, but I am aiming to have a new batch of rings available by mid-September. In any event, I will post here when the next round of rings is ready.

[raymogi]

Watching this topic so I don't miss out on the next round. Need that end game HHKB

[Hypersphere]

UPDATE:

I am pleased to report that I was able to complete "Round 2" of the Silencing Rings ahead of schedule.

Moreover, due to increased production efficiency and economies of scale, I am able to reduce prices by 20%.

The new listings have been posted on eBay.

[GL1TCH3D]

UPDATE:

I am pleased to report that I was able to complete "Round 2" of the Silencing Rings ahead of schedule.

Moreover, due to increased production efficiency and economies of scale, I am able to reduce prices by 20%.

The new listings have been posted on eBay.

Great to hear!

I'll probably pick up a set at these prices later on

[dutC4]

 

[septamber]

Got some of these for my HHKB. Just installed them. Highly recommended 

[GL1TCH3D]

Has anyone had any deterioration of these ?

Asking mostly the people from the first batch

[TrptJim]

Been using these for a couple of days now. They're doing a great job silencing the upstroke. I can now use my HHKB in class!

Also, tell Mrs. Hypersphere that I really appreciate her making a new listing of 26 rings for my Realforce 23UB numpad.

Thanks you two!

[jiexi]

I'm still very curios how effective these are. Does anyone who has used these silencing rings also have a board with the landing pad silencing mod? Thoughts on both?

[raymogi]

I'm still very curios how effective these are. Does anyone who has used these silencing rings also have a board with the landing pad silencing mod? Thoughts on both?

I don't have a board with the landing pad, but I do have a HHKB Type-S and I can say that these rings produces almost the same sound and silencing effect.

[GL1TCH3D]

I'm still very curios how effective these are. Does anyone who has used these silencing rings also have a board with the landing pad silencing mod? Thoughts on both?

I don't have a board with the landing pad, but I do have a HHKB Type-S and I can say that these rings produces almost the same sound and silencing effect.

Ray do you have any extras I could buy? =P

Would love to test these out before dropping almost $100 on these

[raymogi]

I'm still very curios how effective these are. Does anyone who has used these silencing rings also have a board with the landing pad silencing mod? Thoughts on both?

I don't have a board with the landing pad, but I do have a HHKB Type-S and I can say that these rings produces almost the same sound and silencing effect.

Ray do you have any extras I could buy? =P

Would love to test these out before dropping almost $100 on these

Unfortunately I don't bro. Sorry..

I bought 2x 107 from Hypersphere. Used 60+87 already and need to do another 60 for my other HHKB xD

[GL1TCH3D]

I'm still very curios how effective these are. Does anyone who has used these silencing rings also have a board with the landing pad silencing mod? Thoughts on both?

I don't have a board with the landing pad, but I do have a HHKB Type-S and I can say that these rings produces almost the same sound and silencing effect.

Ray do you have any extras I could buy? =P

Would love to test these out before dropping almost $100 on these

Unfortunately I don't bro. Sorry..

I bought 2x 107 from Hypersphere. Used 60+87 already and need to do another 60 for my other HHKB xD

Im pretty sure i want these but want to test it first since it's a fairly expensive invrstment

Not sure if I'm going to mod everything to 55g domes