I wouldn't purposely be melting POM unless you're in a really well ventilated area as it releases formaldehyde gases.
https://www.basf.com/documents/us/en/sustianability/responsible-care/UltraformPolyoxymethyleneProductSafetySummary.pdf
Your flame would also have to be positioned properly, or you could end up melting other parts of the stem. How would you plan on protecting the rear parts?
#1 worst offender in scratchy feeling is definitely the "legs". However getting the side sliders (including the inside 90 degree part) is also another factor. Any plans on those two surfaces? I'd imagine the slightest bit of melting would cause the slider to not freely move up and down.
Round | Switch #1 | Switch #2 | Switch #3 | Switch #4 | Notes |
1 | Lubed | Flamed | Stock | Flamed | Guessed right on every one. Initially thought #2 was stock until I felt #3. |
2 | ? | ? | ? | ? | Inconclusive. I was really confused for some reason during this round. Sophomore jinx? |
3 | Flamed | Lubed | Flamed | Stock | Guessed right on every one. |
4 | Flamed | Flamed | Stock | Lubed | Was unsure about my initial guesses, so I took a second pass before looking and guessed every one right on the second pass. |
5 | Flamed | Flamed | Lubed | Stock | Confused flamed with both lubed and stock on the first pass before settling on the correct guesses on a second pass. |
6 | Flamed | Flamed | Lubed | Stock | Guessed right on the first pass. |
7 | Stock | Flamed | Lubed | Flamed | Guessed all on first pass except #1 (I thought it was flamed at first until I felt #3 and #4). |
8 | Flamed | Stock | Lubed | Flamed | Guessed all on first pass except #2 (I thought it was lubed at first until I felt #3). |
9 | Flamed | Stock | Flamed | Lubed | Mixed up stock and lubed on this round. |
10 | Flamed | Flamed | Stock | Lubed | Mixed up flamed (#2) and stock on this round. |
This has to be one of the craziest mod I've seen here, but it makes a lot of sense and very informative.
Soon cherry switches will have to be: flamed, lubed, stickered to be usable.
RIP Cooked stem.
Interesting results though. Definitely hard to get each stem "polished" right if doing this mod. If you have a macro lens, I'd be interested in seeing some comparison pics.
I wonder if acetone vapor would smooth out POM? I know a lot of people use acetone vapor to smooth their PLA and ABS 3d prints. It might be worth a try.
I had pretty good luck flame polishing Delrin.
The parts were about 3/8ths in diameter and I had a fixture to hold a bunch.
I used a propane torch hanging over the mill table. I programmed it to feed past the parts.
I did it fast at first to see how it worked and then kept slowing it down until I got the finish I wanted. Glossy!
You really can't do it by hand.
Regards,
Stan-
Might be impractical for switch stems (I guess you can wear heavy duty leather gloves), but how about buffing the legs with a jewelry buffer wheel? It could heat up the plastic enough to smooth it out a bit while polishing the legs.
You should try heating and quenching one. Just for giggles.
You should try heating and quenching one. Just for giggles.
Honestly, it's so little heat on such a tiny part that it would cool before I got it into the bath.
I mentioned earlier that I suspect a hotter flame might do a better job than a plain old lighter. So I bought a butane micro-torch from Amazon and I just received it late yesterday. After trying it out on a couple stems, I definitely think this is a better way to go than a lighter. The hotter flame seems to do a better job heating the surface only, before the whole leg has a chance to melt and deform.
Unfortunately I don't have time to take pics and write up this second round. But it proves the idea well enough that I'm going to try it on the browns in my Infinity. I was going to open them up for lube and stickers anyway, so I'll go ahead and flame polish them at the same time. When I do that, I'll be sure to take lots of pics (and maybe even some video) to show exactly how I do it.
Basically, the trick is to pass the flame back and forth across the surface, until you see the legs get shiny, then immediately remove the heat and let cool. This requires a good eye and lots of light.
I really dig the idea here. The CNC setup would probably work great, or at least something with a power feed to give consistent results.Definitely, I could see somebody reselling switches at a markup if they can get consistent results. If I were dead set on using MX as opposed to Zealio then I would want the smoothest experience possible.
I think a more pronounced bump could be a sign of increased friction, but I'm just speculating
Definitely an interesting experiment, thanks a lot for sharing, it inspired me to try sanding the stems, but I'm probably not going to do that, the scratch is more of an initial issue, it disappears after some breaking in, lubing pretty much every contact point also helps a lot
I was also going to suggest finding an acetone-like material for POM, but I'm guessing there isn't an easily accessible one
Off topic, were you also addicted to fire as a kid?
I think a more pronounced bump could be a sign of increased friction, but I'm just speculating
Definitely an interesting experiment, thanks a lot for sharing, it inspired me to try sanding the stems, but I'm probably not going to do that, the scratch is more of an initial issue, it disappears after some breaking in, lubing pretty much every contact point also helps a lot
I was also going to suggest finding an acetone-like material for POM, but I'm guessing there isn't an easily accessible one
Off topic, were you also addicted to fire as a kid?
Once, when I was 12 years old, I lit a large box full of styrofoam packing peanuts on fire on the front sidewalk, billowing black smoke into the air. The neighbors called the police, and when the officer showed up he told me I had to put out the fire. I asked him why I should have to listen to him since it's my box and my sidewalk. The officer explained that it is, in fact, the city's sidewalk, and restated his directive that I put the fire out immediately. I did so, and when the flames had subsided the officer said, "now I want you to clean up all this mess right away," to which I responded, "why should I clean it up? It's not my sidewalk!"
The exceedingly patient officer replied, "do you want me to take you down to the station and explain it to you?"
That's when I cleaned up the mess.
I think a more pronounced bump could be a sign of increased friction, but I'm just speculating
Definitely an interesting experiment, thanks a lot for sharing, it inspired me to try sanding the stems, but I'm probably not going to do that, the scratch is more of an initial issue, it disappears after some breaking in, lubing pretty much every contact point also helps a lot
I was also going to suggest finding an acetone-like material for POM, but I'm guessing there isn't an easily accessible one
Off topic, were you also addicted to fire as a kid?
Very nice!
When I shave my switches I don't shave the contact are of the legs, just the mould seams. It helps, especially the ones between the legs and main slider part, but they still need wearing in and it's slow. Browns are also not quite tactile enough for my taste.
I'm switching to using Zealios instead, though. Quicker, smoother, easier, better looking, no aftermarket springs or stickers needed :D
Will still trampoline and latex mod them, though.
So I would say the jury's still out on flame-polishing. But it is definitely a worthwhile idea to explore if you have some browns to spare. And if you have a torch, I'd be really interested to hear how that goes.
...
Oobly, what exactly is the latex mod? Are you using latex sheet as a landing pad or on the slider to dampen the upstroke, or are you using rubber cement in some fashion?
I use a couple of drops of "liquid latex" (where I live it's sold by that name in hobby / craft stores) on the inside of the top switch housing, where the slider hits it:Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50632.0;attach=43437;image)
It dries to a slightly yellow, clear soft rubber, but it takes some time to dry. It's water-based and usually has some ammonia in, so it stinks when it's still wet, but the smell fades when it's dry. It dampens the upstroke enough to be a little quieter and when used with a solid board design (metal plate) it sounds a lot better than the more plasticky click of unmodded switches.
The ones I originally did in 2013 are still working fine, so it seems to be durable enough, too.
...
Oobly, what exactly is the latex mod? Are you using latex sheet as a landing pad or on the slider to dampen the upstroke, or are you using rubber cement in some fashion?
I use a couple of drops of "liquid latex" (where I live it's sold by that name in hobby / craft stores) on the inside of the top switch housing, where the slider hits it:Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=50632.0;attach=43437;image)
It dries to a slightly yellow, clear soft rubber, but it takes some time to dry. It's water-based and usually has some ammonia in, so it stinks when it's still wet, but the smell fades when it's dry. It dampens the upstroke enough to be a little quieter and when used with a solid board design (metal plate) it sounds a lot better than the more plasticky click of unmodded switches.
The ones I originally did in 2013 are still working fine, so it seems to be durable enough, too.
Is it actually latex? Two years seems good but I'm thinking about old rubber bands...I'm wondering if a similar product exists made with silicone.
Is it actually latex? Two years seems good but I'm thinking about old rubber bands...I'm wondering if a similar product exists made with silicone.
Is it actually latex? Two years seems good but I'm thinking about old rubber bands...I'm wondering if a similar product exists made with silicone.
Seems so, from the ammonia smell. The timeline seems OK too - rubber bands have all sorts of fillers that increase wear and porosity, so they die more easily. Still not a good choice, as it will degrade in air over a few years, and is a mess to clean up. AFAIR when it comes into contact with mineral oil, it will become gooey and sticky, impossible to get off. Silicone oil preserves it nicely though.
If you want a similar product with silicones, get one of the caulking condensation-based silicones, preferably not acetate-based (its acidic, will eat into metal parts), and dissolve it. Turps or toluene work OK as a solvent, acetone doesn't. You may try adding some silicone oil to the mix to make it softer when cured, though beware, too much and it wont cure, or will get goopy and easy to tear.
RTV silicone with a fast-evaporating solvent such as Toluene could work. It will give a very thin layer, though it won't stick to anything. There are primers that should make it stick, but no experience with these.
Polyurethanes have best dampening properties, and they stick to most stuff. Not as good as silicones when it comes to resistance to atmosphere and UV, but still much better than latex.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbothane <- king of the hill when it comes to dampening stuff. Low-shore platinum-cured silicones come close second. Good luck having them cure, though.
Sorry for thread derail :P