Topre lovers, brace yourselves...

[therecorder]

OK, I'm sure that someone probably covered this "somewhere", but how does the feel of the FC660C (which I have) compare to a Realforce 87U (all 45g)?

[Sniping]

OK, I'm sure that someone probably covered this "somewhere", but how does the feel of the FC660C (which I have) compare to a Realforce 87U (all 45g)?

I think daedrid said that he prefers the FC660C over the 45g Realforce because it doesn't feel mushy.

[therecorder]

OK, I'm sure that someone probably covered this "somewhere", but how does the feel of the FC660C (which I have) compare to a Realforce 87U (all 45g)?

I think daedrid said that he prefers the FC660C over the 45g Realforce because it doesn't feel mushy.

So the FC660C might be closer,in feel, to Realforce 87U (all 55G)?

[Sniping]

OK, I'm sure that someone probably covered this "somewhere", but how does the feel of the FC660C (which I have) compare to a Realforce 87U (all 45g)?

I think daedrid said that he prefers the FC660C over the 45g Realforce because it doesn't feel mushy.

So the FC660C might be closer,in feel, to Realforce 87U (all 55G)?

I'm going to assume that it feels a bit more like a HHKB than a Realforce 87u 55g because they're both 45g weighted. You would have to ask daedrid or someone that actually owns all three if the FC660c feels closer to a 45g Realforce or a 55g Realforce, I wouldn't know, sorry.

[AJCarrington]

Also confirmed in the product description on EK's site.

[ValerieV]

I had the Realforce 45 and i didn't like it because it felt mushy. I prefer the HHKB 45 over the Leopold because it is a little louder but it's really difficult to notice the difference. The Leopold topre is an excellent keyboard and the price is reasonable. I still would never trade my HHKB for a Leopold if i had to choose though. If you already have a HHKB and are used to the nondedicated arrow keys, i wouldn't really bother.

[Sniping]

Subjectivity is a big part of things so really in the end no one's opinions matter as much as yours.

[daerid]

I'm always curious why so that extra "d" gets put in my nick so often :-P

I agree with the above poster about the 45g RF, although I'd probably use the term "loose" more than "mushy". The heavier weight Topres have a quicker more responsive upstroke, which gives a crisper feel.  It' definitely feels more like a HHKB than a Realforce while typing. More solid though. The construction is top notch, and there's no looseness that I always felt the 45g RF had a bit of.

[Flyersfan1]

I think I have decided to sell my RF 87u 55 for one of these bad boys, I was really torn about getting either a 87u or HHKB back when I made the purchase in March.  I didn't want to get used to the lack of dedicated arrow keys, but loved the compact form factor of the HHKB.  This model just seems to bring the best of both worlds!

[WhiteFireDragon]

It's near impossible to "float type" and stop right after the actuation point.

The only thing I'm disliking is the inability to "float type", so I'll have to practice (lol). I'm fairly confident I can type on a Topre without bottoming out very much, although it sounds like I might fail to actuate while trying to learn how to do so.

When you try to do this float type on these switches, you'll be fighting against your own fingers and the inherent properties of the rubber cup. It takes a certain amount of force to start moving the keys downward, but once you've overcome this force barrier, it's going to push all the way through to the bottom. Under normal typing conditions, there are only 2 discrete key positions; resting or bottom-out. You can artificially slowly press it down halfway to test it, but no one types like this.

I'm giving this FC660C a fair 5 days of typing, but still not use to being forced to bottom-out. My typing speed had a noticeable decrease because of this.

[AKIMbO]

It's near impossible to "float type" and stop right after the actuation point.

The only thing I'm disliking is the inability to "float type", so I'll have to practice (lol). I'm fairly confident I can type on a Topre without bottoming out very much, although it sounds like I might fail to actuate while trying to learn how to do so.

When you try to do this float type on these switches, you'll be fighting against your own fingers and the inherent properties of the rubber cup. It takes a certain amount of force to start moving the keys downward, but once you've overcome this force barrier, it's going to push all the way through to the bottom. Under normal typing conditions, there are only 2 discrete key positions; resting or bottom-out. You can artificially slowly press it down halfway to test it, but no one types like this.

I'm giving this FC660C a fair 5 days of typing, but still not use to being forced to bottom-out. My typing speed had a noticeable decrease because of this.

Topre requires a different typing technique compared to cherry.  I find myself typing faster on topre if I immediately release the switch once I overcome the initial tactile bump in the switch.  It's hard to describe but you almost have to stab at the switches, unlike cherry where you can more or less press the switch. 

Hope I'm making sense.

[Michael]

WFD - Definitely give it a week or 2. It's a completely different mechanism, so it requires some learning to get optimal WPM. You don't have to bottom out, but I usually do just because I am a heavy typer. But if I try, I can definitely keep from bottoming out on my 55g RF. As for the HHKB, I think I just enjoy bottoming out on it. Just the acoustics are what makes it a pleasure to do so.


I think if you give it some time, and use it as your daily driver, you will like it. Or you just wont. It's a love or hate thing

[WhiteFireDragon]

Topre requires a different typing technique compared to cherry.  I find myself typing faster on topre if I immediately release the switch once I overcome the initial tactile bump in the switch.  It's hard to describe but you almost have to stab at the switches, unlike cherry where you can more or less press the switch. 

I think I'm understanding you correctly. That just means you're pressing it with just enough force to overcome to tactile bump, so you bottom out very softly, but regardless, it still bottoms out before resetting. Right? This is how I'm typing right now. Most of the noise is from the keys springing back up, very little is from it hitting the bottom (although it still happens).

[AKIMbO]

Topre requires a different typing technique compared to cherry.  I find myself typing faster on topre if I immediately release the switch once I overcome the initial tactile bump in the switch.  It's hard to describe but you almost have to stab at the switches, unlike cherry where you can more or less press the switch. 

I think I'm understanding you correctly. That just means you're pressing it with just enough force to overcome to tactile bump, so you bottom out very softly, but regardless, it still bottoms out before resetting. Right? This is how I'm typing right now. Most of the noise is from the keys springing back up, very little is from it hitting the bottom (although it still happens).

Yeah that about sums it up.  I'm not consciously trying to type without bottoming out though.  With the quick stabbing motion, it's more about letting the topre switch's spring return the key after actuation rather than the typer lifting his/her finger...oness with cupped rubber as they say.  Perhaps this is more relevant on the 55g topres as opposed to the 45g topres.

[Michael]

Perhaps this is more relevant on the 55g topres as opposed to the 45g topres.

This is definitely the case. The heavier weight of the 55g kind of snaps you back. I don't get that with the 45g.

[daerid]

It's a very unique feel and very unique typing style. I am definitely faster on something like Cherry browns, but nowhere near as comfortable and relaxed, which I'll take over speed any day of the week.

[Flyersfan1]

It's a very unique feel and very unique typing style. I am definitely faster on something like Cherry browns, but nowhere near as comfortable and relaxed, which I'll take over speed any day of the week.

Have you switched over to the Leopold as your daily driver, or do you kind of alternate between that and the 55g?

[daerid]

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

[kelske]

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

aaaaannnnnndddddddddddd.............??

Edit: stupid emoticons ??

[WhiteFireDragon]

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

Seriously... cool story bro. And what else?

[WhiteFireDragon]

Sound test on mine. I tried to isolate the noise that's generated only from bottom-out, and noise only from the keys popping back up. They have different sound signatures. During the actual typing test, most of the chattering noise are from the keys popping back up, very little is from bottoming out because I'm a pretty light typer (although they all do bottom out). Any clicking you hear in the background is from my gf typing on mx whites. I didn't think the mic would actually pic those up, so don't mind those.

Mic was a Audio-Technica ATR-3350

[daerid]

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

aaaaannnnnndddddddddddd.............??

Edit: stupid emoticons ??

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

Seriously... cool story bro. And what else?

?!?!? What do you mean? Somebody asked a question and I provided an answer. I'm confused

[Michael]

He's just being WFD. Don't worry

[Jocelyn]

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

aaaaannnnnndddddddddddd.............??

Edit: stupid emoticons ??

I've been using it as my daily since 5/1, but today I went back to the 55g because I'm letting Jocelyn borrow my Leo for a week.

Seriously... cool story bro. And what else?

?!?!? What do you mean? Somebody asked a question and I provided an answer. I'm confused

I'm REALLY surprised you didn't get his post. I think it had to do with him sending me his FC660C instead of you lol

[ktownhero]

Discovered my first complaint with this keyboard: since the legs are rubberized they stick and when they stick they like to fold under when you move the keyboard forward.  I don't know what it is, but I tend to make minor adjustments to my keyboard all day.  I'll get used to it though  

Minor gripe. 

[whiteduck]

Discovered my first complaint with this keyboard: since the legs are rubberized they stick and when they stick they like to fold under when you move the keyboard forward.  I don't know what it is, but I tend to make minor adjustments to my keyboard all day.  I'll get used to it though  

Minor gripe. 

I'm also apparently a compulsive keyboard shifter and am noticing this issue... =/

[daerid]

I'm REALLY surprised you didn't get his post. I think it had to do with him sending me his FC660C instead of you lol

Ahhhh ok. I think it was the one-two punch of the previous post followed by WFD's that threw me.

And as to the rubber feet, I for one think that's a bonus feature, not a gripe but to each their own

[ValerieV]

The rubber feet are a big bonus over the HHKB. That keyboard slides all around on my laptop so i had to purchase something to make it stick. It still doesn't hold well. The Leopold holds extremely well. In fact, it is one of the best i have had in regards to staying put on top of my laptop keyboard.

[kelske]

I'm REALLY surprised you didn't get his post. I think it had to do with him sending me his FC660C instead of you lol

Ahhhh ok. I think it was the one-two punch of the previous post followed by WFD's that threw me.

Lol, well what I was asking was now that you've been using it for 3 weeks, and have jumped back to the RF55g again - any more comparisons to add here?

[AKIMbO]

I'm REALLY surprised you didn't get his post. I think it had to do with him sending me his FC660C instead of you lol

Ahhhh ok. I think it was the one-two punch of the previous post followed by WFD's that threw me.

And as to the rubber feet, I for one think that's a bonus feature, not a gripe but to each their own

C'mon daerid. Quit keeping us in suspense.  What's your opinion on the RF vs. HHKB vs. F660c.

[Flyersfan1]

I'm REALLY surprised you didn't get his post. I think it had to do with him sending me his FC660C instead of you lol

Ahhhh ok. I think it was the one-two punch of the previous post followed by WFD's that threw me.

And as to the rubber feet, I for one think that's a bonus feature, not a gripe but to each their own

C'mon daerid. Quit keeping us in suspense.  What's your opinion on the RF vs. HHKB vs. F660c.

Yes!! This!

[daerid]

Oh, lol.. I thought I had made my thoughts clear in several other posts, but now I can't seem to find them. Not to worry, I'll just summarize here once and for all.

The Happy Hacking Keyboard Keyboard (HHKB)

Pros:

• Best typing experience for general writing
• Compact form factor
• Best "thock" sound of any Topre  board
• Geek cred
• Feels stiffer and snappier than the 45g 87U
• Light weight
• USB ports!
• Dye-Sub PBT Caps

Cons:

• Using arrows was awkward, couldn't get used to it
• Location of Backspace and Backslash keys ended up making my hands hurt
• Felt slightly fragile, probably due to lack of a metal plate
• Always seemed like it was about to move out from under me, probably also due to it's light weight
• Traditionally the most expensive Topre board

Realforce 87U 45g

Pros:

• Tenkeyless layout, far easier learning curve
• Standard inverted-T arrows and six pack cluster
• F-key row easily accessible
• Metal back plate makes the typing experience feel much more solid
• 45g switches are easy on the fingers
• Dye-Sub PBT Caps

Cons:

• Least "thock" sound of any Topre board
• Keys feel almost loose and in some instances feel very flimsy or mushy
• Heavy (could be a pro)
• Keys don't snap back as fast or as "crisp" as other Topre boards
  
• Price is generally > $200 USD

Realforce 87U 55g

Pros:

• Generally my favorite keyswitch, until this morning
• Has all the pros of the 45g except in 55g
• Much more "thocky" than the 45g
• 55g switches aren't as heavy as you'd think
• The key feel is super crisp, and overall gives the board a higher quality feel
• Faster snap back than the 45g RF
• Dye-Sub PBT Caps

Cons:

• Heavy (could be a pro)
• Price is generally > $200 USD

Leopold FC660C (The new kid)

Pros:

• As of this morning, I think this might be my new favorite board
• Solid feel
• Rubber feet - keeps the board in place when pounding on it
• Dedicated arrow keys
• Fn+Arrow keys double as page up, page down, home and end in a super intuitive way
• Right side control key (I use this for Ctrl+Arrow word navigation all the time)
• All in all, probably my favorite compact layout ever made
• 45g switches that feel more solid and crisper than the 45g Realforce
• Almost as "thocky" as the HHKB, but the plate dampens it a bit
• Easily and intuitive Escape/~ situation
• Feels like the keys are giving sexual favors to your fingertips
• Sub $200 price tag!!!

Cons:

• Lasered keycaps (but still PBT)
• Some people might not like the choice of Insert/Delete
• Availability - already sold out at EK
• Compact layout may make some key combinations more difficult

I'll be happy to answer any specific questions anybody might have about the above mentioned boards. Hope that helps!

[Sniping]

Amazing comparison, thanks for doing this!

[phetto]

sweet daerid

[aggiejy]

Very good comparison!  I've had all of those boards except the 55g (which I've typed on) and I'm almost exactly point-to-point in agreement.

Fn+Arrow keys double as page up, page down, home and end in a super intuitive way

I had no clue about this though! Thanks!

[kelske]

Sticky!!  Cheers Daerid

[Michael]

Great write-up, daerid. I agree for the most part. The only parts I disagree on is mostly HHKB-related. I never got the sensation of the HHKB feeling fragile. It feels pretty damned solid to me. Once I learned the layout, and my muscle memory adapted, it wasn't an issue using arrows or the backspace. In fact, I dislike swapping between the RF and the HHKB just because of the backspace being so far from my pinky on the RF.

Just keep in mind that topre switches have a break in, and will feel different after some time. So while the Leo might feel crisp and fresh, give it a good month and come back and publish your thoughts

[Sniping]

Great write-up, daerid. I agree for the most part. The only parts I disagree on is mostly HHKB-related. I never got the sensation of the HHKB feeling fragile. It feels pretty damned solid to me. Once I learned the layout, and my muscle memory adapted, it wasn't an issue using arrows or the backspace. In fact, I dislike swapping between the RF and the HHKB just because of the backspace being so far from my pinky on the RF.

Just keep in mind that topre switches have a break in, and will feel different after some time. So while the Leo might feel crisp and fresh, give it a good month and come back and publish your thoughts

Hasn't daerid had his 660C for a month already? I remember him having it before the GB even started.

[Michael]

Hasn't daerid had his 660C for a month already? I remember him having it before the GB even started.

I believe he has had it since 5/1

[daerid]

Yeah, it's been about 3 weeks. And it has loosened up a bit, but it still feels fairly crisp. And actually that 5/1 date is wrong, the actual date is 4/29 (Monday).

[Flyersfan1]

Daerid, that was such an awesome breakdown of the boards. Thanks so much!

[phetto]

you should grab a topre board, philly

[Flyersfan1]

you should grab a topre board, philly

I already have a 660C ordered, it's gonna be tough waiting until there back in stock!    I guess i'll just have to get by watching youtube typing videos.  I can't tell you guys how many times I've been ridiculed by friends when I'm caught watching typing test videos on youtube, haha.

[vivalarevolución]

Daerid, you forgot to publish your review of the other Topre keyboard, the µTron keyboard.

[Michael]

Daerid, you forgot to publish your review of the other Topre keyboard, the µTron keyboard.

The Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh-tron

[daerid]

Daerid, you forgot to publish your review of the other Topre keyboard, the µTron keyboard.

I don't have one and have never used one (soon to be rectified I hope!!!)

[phetto]

Grab one, heard that they are extremely cheap

[vivalarevolución]

Daerid, you forgot to publish your review of the other Topre keyboard, the µTron keyboard.

I don't have one and have never used one (soon to be rectified I hope!!!)

Me too.  I've started a µTron savings fund.  The µTron invasion is upon us.

[ValerieV]

you should grab a topre board, philly

I already have a 660C ordered, it's gonna be tough waiting until there back in stock!    I guess i'll just have to get by watching youtube typing videos.  I can't tell you guys how many times I've been ridiculed by friends when I'm caught watching typing test videos on youtube, haha.

I was ALMOST caught today at work watching a typing video. I heard footsteps just in time and changed my website from YouTube to WebMD. Now i am just a hypochondriac. 

[MJ45]

Some HHKB users have had commented about board sliding about, I have found a cheap fix by using some self stick 3M rubber pads I found at Michael's craft store. They are very grippy on most surfaces for less than $5 USD.