[IC] GMK Olivia++

[KingOfMemes]

You are making it more complicated than it needs to be. Risk can and should be split - so that vendors each would have to bear just a few kits. But considering firstly how huge this run is and secondly how Oblivion v2 turned out, its weird to talk about "courage", "risk" and "buy ups" in this matter. And the NorDeUK kit should have the usual light alphas of course, since this is the original kit (why are there dark alphas/2 different versions anyway? just run a new design if you want a new look).

NK and Mykeyboard aren't Massdrop.

PS: Colevrak and norde suck.

[Zambumon]

Good day everyone,

Regarding: Feedback

Most of the changes between Olivia and Olivia++ were based on feedback from the first round. Olivia came with a list of changes for ++ including kit changes, layout coverage, and an alternate color-scheme, and currently this thread is a circlejerk about NorDEUK and Colemak & Dvorak.



Some of you have suggested some additions on this IC, most of them were already addressed by Olivia on October 19:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=102914.150

Q: Base kits:
A: "The kits will be very different from the original GB to support the 2 different color modes."

If this is not clear enough, this means that Olivia ++ will have two base kits and both kits will have the exact same layout support:
40%, UK ISO, Space Bars, Novelties, and More Novelties.


Q: tweaked icon mods?:
A: No, the set will use the standard text + icon mods.

Just like the first round, the set will use the same modifiers.


Q: R5 bottom row?
No, the set will be using a R4.


Q: Colemak & Dvorak kit:
A: No, it won't be available.


Q: NorDEUK kit?
A: There will not be a NorDEUK kit, only UK ISO.


Getting suggestions is one thing, complaining for 4 pages about 2 kits is another.

Group buy runners deal differently when someone repeatedly complains on their IC about the lack of X or Y kit or layout support.
Some confront those messages with short line answers and get the reputation of being massive ****s.
For some others it makes them less confident about their sets, and creates stress.



Regarding: this set will sell so much that we have to make X kit.

You are assuming too much. There's a lot of interest for this set,  but that doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
Interest is not a direct translation to "this set will sell 1200 Dark base kits".
We have many examples of a designer trying to please everyone and then having issues during the group buy, ending up with the vendor purchasing kits to MOQ.
Assuming that a set will sell like hot cakes can lead to bad group buys.




Regarding: not having posted the kits yet.

I take the blame for that one.

For ++, I strongly suggested Olivia to make a site (https://oliviaplus.plus) so she could to provide all the information you need about the set including kits, kit descriptions, keyboard gallery, links to all of the vendors, pricing...

Olivia will be posting instead an OP update later today.

[KingOfMemes]

Group buy runners deal differently when someone repeatedly complains on their IC about the lack of X or Y kit or layout support.
Some confront those messages with short line answers and get the reputation of being massive ****s.
For some others it makes them less confident about their sets, and creates stress.

None of that would happen if there were clear cut, transparent answers that can convince all the people *****ing that they are being morons. It's always shady, beating around the bush ****. Imagine if runners just said, "Our budgeting estimates 1200 base kits sold around $X per kit, 600 of <insert kit here> sold for $Y a kit. NordeUK estimates 50 at $Z, and with our 5% safety  padding for all kits, presents way to much risk to run, so we aren't going to do it." OR "We don't feel like doing any risk assessment, and we also don't really give a **** about nordeuk anyway, so we just aren't going to do it."

No runner owes anybody any of this, but when they just brush people off with arrogance, they are going to look like a massive **** (your words), and they could have done something about it.

We have many examples of a designer trying to please everyone and then having issues during the group buy, ending up with the vendor purchasing kits to MOQ.

Wouldn't it be good to share those examples, for the sake of everyone in this thread? Designers, people *****ing about alt kits, and people *****ing about people *****ing about alt kits would all benefit with an example of where hype and hubris screwed over a vendor.

Again, none of this is owed to anyone, but if people actually cared about all these nordeuk fanboys complaining, there would be a post truly showing how stupid their complaints are. Everyone, INCLUDING NordDeUK fanboys, want a reason for Nordeuk fanboys to shutup, but nobody will give a clearcut reason. NorDeUk is obviously a relevant enough of a layout that it can soak up 4 pages in a month old thread, as well as be a whole meme for drama, but it's also apparently obvious (to runners, vendors, designers) to not run it. Why not just share what is so painfully obvious to runners with the low tier, plebeian drones, so it can be painfully obvious for them too?

[Dissitesuxba11s]

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[tunadesu]

Q: Base kits:
A: "The kits will be very different from the original GB to support the 2 different color modes."

If this is not clear enough, this means that Olivia ++ will have two base kits and both kits will have the exact same layout support:
40%, UK ISO, Space Bars, Novelties, and More Novelties.

How was that clear cut at all? Why's it gotta be so secretive

[lolafineday]

How I interpreted the message is, there will be 2 base kits. One base kit is the rose gold on black set. The other is the original white, black, rose gold

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[msting]

I want an Ergodox Colevrak kit with icon mods and scooped homing.
There!
 

[megaforce]

Group buy runners deal differently when someone repeatedly complains on their IC about the lack of X or Y kit or layout support.
Some confront those messages with short line answers and get the reputation of being massive ****s.
For some others it makes them less confident about their sets, and creates stress.

None of that would happen if there were clear cut, transparent answers that can convince all the people *****ing that they are being morons. It's always shady, beating around the bush ****. Imagine if runners just said, "Our budgeting estimates 1200 base kits sold around $X per kit, 600 of <insert kit here> sold for $Y a kit. NordeUK estimates 50 at $Z, and with our 5% safety  padding for all kits, presents way to much risk to run, so we aren't going to do it." OR "We don't feel like doing any risk assessment, and we also don't really give a **** about nordeuk anyway, so we just aren't going to do it."

No runner owes anybody any of this, but when they just brush people off with arrogance, they are going to look like a massive **** (your words), and they could have done something about it.

We have many examples of a designer trying to please everyone and then having issues during the group buy, ending up with the vendor purchasing kits to MOQ.

Wouldn't it be good to share those examples, for the sake of everyone in this thread? Designers, people *****ing about alt kits, and people *****ing about people *****ing about alt kits would all benefit with an example of where hype and hubris screwed over a vendor.

Again, none of this is owed to anyone, but if people actually cared about all these nordeuk fanboys complaining, there would be a post truly showing how stupid their complaints are. Everyone, INCLUDING NordDeUK fanboys, want a reason for Nordeuk fanboys to shutup, but nobody will give a clearcut reason. NorDeUk is obviously a relevant enough of a layout that it can soak up 4 pages in a month old thread, as well as be a whole meme for drama, but it's also apparently obvious (to runners, vendors, designers) to not run it. Why not just share what is so painfully obvious to runners with the low tier, plebeian drones, so it can be painfully obvious for them too?

Are you done wasting your parents internet bandwidth?

**** off m8

[KingOfMemes]

Group buy runners deal differently when someone repeatedly complains on their IC about the lack of X or Y kit or layout support.
Some confront those messages with short line answers and get the reputation of being massive ****s.
For some others it makes them less confident about their sets, and creates stress.

None of that would happen if there were clear cut, transparent answers that can convince all the people *****ing that they are being morons. It's always shady, beating around the bush ****. Imagine if runners just said, "Our budgeting estimates 1200 base kits sold around $X per kit, 600 of <insert kit here> sold for $Y a kit. NordeUK estimates 50 at $Z, and with our 5% safety  padding for all kits, presents way to much risk to run, so we aren't going to do it." OR "We don't feel like doing any risk assessment, and we also don't really give a **** about nordeuk anyway, so we just aren't going to do it."

No runner owes anybody any of this, but when they just brush people off with arrogance, they are going to look like a massive **** (your words), and they could have done something about it.

We have many examples of a designer trying to please everyone and then having issues during the group buy, ending up with the vendor purchasing kits to MOQ.

Wouldn't it be good to share those examples, for the sake of everyone in this thread? Designers, people *****ing about alt kits, and people *****ing about people *****ing about alt kits would all benefit with an example of where hype and hubris screwed over a vendor.

Again, none of this is owed to anyone, but if people actually cared about all these nordeuk fanboys complaining, there would be a post truly showing how stupid their complaints are. Everyone, INCLUDING NordDeUK fanboys, want a reason for Nordeuk fanboys to shutup, but nobody will give a clearcut reason. NorDeUk is obviously a relevant enough of a layout that it can soak up 4 pages in a month old thread, as well as be a whole meme for drama, but it's also apparently obvious (to runners, vendors, designers) to not run it. Why not just share what is so painfully obvious to runners with the low tier, plebeian drones, so it can be painfully obvious for them too?

Are you done wasting your parents internet bandwidth?

**** off m8

LUL I'm sorry did I upset you? Pardon me, let me just fall in line with everyone else

[honoka]

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I officially don't want this anymore.
Not that it matters to anyone but I've never seen this level of arrogance on this platform.

[gMit]

You all needa relax and enjoy a lovely set

[mgsickler]

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I officially don't want this anymore.
Not that it matters to anyone but I've never seen this level of arrogance on this platform.

I’m not sure how that comes across as arrogance, but I can tell you that it definitely is not from Olivia. She wanted to do something fun with solving a puzzle. A lot of effort was actually made for this scavenger hunt/ riddle.

The kits will be coming very soon, and they are priced better than I have ever been able to price things.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but that’s not how it was meant to come across.

[honoka]

I think that the timing is the issue. Having a scavenger hunt this close to start of a groupbuy is what makes this appear as arrogance.
Usually people plan for what they want to reserve funds for and since these sets are expensive, however cheap they might be comparatively, it's still a lot of money. Not knowing what's even on the table 2 weeks from the start is putting me off.
Also, that's the reason for this discussion. We are a bunch of people that don't know and the speculation is killing the intent of this IC.

Edit: Quote editing on mobile is weird.

[Imperilous]

With that in mind: Please consider that there is also a dark number of people buying the base kit only because there is a NorDeUK (or whatever kit). So the sole sale of a particular kit does probably not do the overall success in terms of income justice.

Exactly the position that I and probably every NorDeUK user is in. There are so many sets I didn't buy even though I loved their colours: GMK 8008, GMK Nines and now probably GMK Olivia++.

Yeah, same here. No NorDeUK = No purchase. There has probably been like 6-8 sets that i would've wanted to buy the last year but i haven't due to the fact that NorDeUK is not an option. The only one I've jumped on is Oblivion V2 (which hopefully will start shipping soon), and now it looks like Modern Dolch Light may be the next set dropping with Norde included so i'll deffo join that with a full set or two.

I think Olivia looks amazing so i'm really sad to see NorDeUK won't be an option. Fingers crossed for round 3 (+++) then i suppose :/

[tonydatigeryo]

I’m just trying to figure out if I should save money for this or not.  Personally, all I want to know is if ortho boards be supported, though I know others are curious about other compatibility. Kit information is mostly what people want and one of the biggest parts of an IC, so why is this information only going to come out last minute?

A random picture here and there, with no kit information since the IC... it’s a bit frustrating especially with so many group buys running right now, and I’m not sure if I should save money for this or buy something else, and time runs out quickly.

Time is of the essence, but there has only been small teasers that don’t give people information they need to make good purchasing decisions with these limited time frame buys.

[dragon564738]

Even if the timing of the scavenger hunt was a bit off, it's still a good set. Personally, I thought it was a fun touch.

Literally, no sets sell an adequate amount of Nordeuk/Colevrak sets, especially since there are two colors of alphas now, you could conceivably cut numbers for Dracula, etc in half to get a reasonable amount; probably going to be less than MOQ.

Not enough people use either layout to make it economical. The set runners have no obligation to cater to your personal needs and honestly if you care enough about the set to write like 3 pages of rants about how ne nordeuk avail, you should honestly just change to ANSI because it seems that you really care about the set.

[DukeEsquire]

I applaud the designers for wanting to do something different with this IC, but I do agree that it's starting to get tiresome when the release is so close and none of the clues give us any incremental information about the set.

They just bounce people from one dead-end point to another.

It seems like the reward for solving one puzzle is another puzzle.

I think it was cool for the first puzzle to tell us when the GB date was, but a puzzle that leads to a website that leads to morse code that leads to...etc. doesn't add much.

[superuser41]

Open Sesame!

[dexie]

Open Sesame!

Probably a related question: did you use Octave or MATLAB?

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[superuser41]

Octave

[dexie]

Octave

Bravo! I decoded "Open Sdqaf", and I am not sure why

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[olivia]

Open Sesame!

Correct!

[Vigrith]

I’m not sure how that comes across as arrogance, but I can tell you that it definitely is not from Olivia. She wanted to do something fun with solving a puzzle. A lot of effort was actually made for this scavenger hunt/ riddle.

The kits will be coming very soon, and they are priced better than I have ever been able to price things.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but that’s not how it was meant to come across.

I love scavenger hunts/riddles personally, so I'm a huge fan of what has been done here - as other have stated, I think gating stuff behind it to this extent is a little excessive though. My main qualm with how the IC has been handled is mostly relating to what Zambu addressed above; nothing posted on the date the thread was created, one render thrown out after Hoff called out the lack of information, no real community outreach from any of the people responsible for the project, no kit mockups so that people can know what to expect/how much they should be looking at saving in order to purchase the set, etc.

I just think the advertisement vs actual IC tension here is just too high for a lot of people, comes across as kinda smug being this cryptic and truth be told rightfully so in my opinion, even though I'm entirely sure that's not the intent.

There was huge tumult when Mito used to post his ICs on here if anyone remembers that, because they were basically an ad for his Massdrop collabs rather than an actual interest check - despite him typing out a 1000 line OP with ultra detailed info and responding to basically every single person with concerns. What we've seen here is basically the same except pretty much without the detail, renders and communication from OP's side.

[superuser41]

Octave

Bravo! I decoded "Open Sdqaf", and I am not sure why

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This happens when your message length is wrong.

[jakereps]

I’m not sure how that comes across as arrogance, but I can tell you that it definitely is not from Olivia. She wanted to do something fun with solving a puzzle. A lot of effort was actually made for this scavenger hunt/ riddle.

The kits will be coming very soon, and they are priced better than I have ever been able to price things.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but that’s not how it was meant to come across.

I love scavenger hunts/riddles personally, so I'm a huge fan of what has been done here - as other have stated, I think gating stuff behind it to this extent is a little excessive though. My main qualm with how the IC has been handled is mostly relating to what Zambu addressed above; nothing posted on the date the thread was created, one render thrown out after Hoff called out the lack of information, no real community outreach from any of the people responsible for the project, no kit mockups so that people can know what to expect/how much they should be looking at saving in order to purchase the set, etc.

I just think the advertisement vs actual IC tension here is just too high for a lot of people, comes across as kinda smug being this cryptic and truth be told rightfully so in my opinion, even though I'm entirely sure that's not the intent.

There was huge tumult when Mito used to post his ICs on here if anyone remembers that, because they were basically an ad for his Massdrop collabs rather than an actual interest check - despite him typing out a 1000 line OP with ultra detailed info and responding to basically every single person with concerns. What we've seen here is basically the same except pretty much without the detail, renders and communication from OP's side.

Very much agree with this statement. I mentioned earlier, but the puzzle on day one was cool - me and my buddy were messaging each other trying to figure it out, and it was fun to see/read the reveal and write up of the puzzle. A month later and only weeks before GB, having no more information than the picture that was already leaked before the IC is just too much of a "dgaf" vibe, intentional or not.

[DukeEsquire]

I’m not sure how that comes across as arrogance, but I can tell you that it definitely is not from Olivia. She wanted to do something fun with solving a puzzle. A lot of effort was actually made for this scavenger hunt/ riddle.

The kits will be coming very soon, and they are priced better than I have ever been able to price things.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but that’s not how it was meant to come across.

I love scavenger hunts/riddles personally, so I'm a huge fan of what has been done here - as other have stated, I think gating stuff behind it to this extent is a little excessive though. My main qualm with how the IC has been handled is mostly relating to what Zambu addressed above; nothing posted on the date the thread was created, one render thrown out after Hoff called out the lack of information, no real community outreach from any of the people responsible for the project, no kit mockups so that people can know what to expect/how much they should be looking at saving in order to purchase the set, etc.

I just think the advertisement vs actual IC tension here is just too high for a lot of people, comes across as kinda smug being this cryptic and truth be told rightfully so in my opinion, even though I'm entirely sure that's not the intent.

There was huge tumult when Mito used to post his ICs on here if anyone remembers that, because they were basically an ad for his Massdrop collabs rather than an actual interest check - despite him typing out a 1000 line OP with ultra detailed info and responding to basically every single person with concerns. What we've seen here is basically the same except pretty much without the detail, renders and communication from OP's side.

Very much agree with this statement. I mentioned earlier, but the puzzle on day one was cool - me and my buddy were messaging each other trying to figure it out, and it was fun to see/read the reveal and write up of the puzzle. A month later and only weeks before GB, having no more information than the picture that was already leaked before the IC is just too much of a "dgaf" vibe, intentional or not.

Yup. Agreed.

Teasers are fun. Teasers this close to the drop without any new info is less fun.

[Aevyn]

Yawn. How is this even an "interest check" when all the kits are decided and everything is pretty much ready to go? An IC thread implies you want some opinions from the community which you obviously do not. No kits are changing here. In fact, we have no idea what the kits even are.

So kudos to this amazing interest check. /s

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[scoopbb]

let me decode everything for you.

[dom]

Being part of GH for a few months now.
Definitely, there is a pattern established on how the IC is constructed (some info, renders, etc, ...), but I believe the purpose of IC is to give feedback to designers, but only if they need it.

IC - is to help designers to make the right decisions, not to help us. So if they don't need our feedback, let believe in them and give them room to breathe. They already have ideas for any creation they do, IC should be place where they can ask "us" about certain decisions if they need it, not to answer or deal with "we want things" comments (interest check form is for that). If they ask - we can answer, with respect and some empathy. We don't have to deal with the design process, vendors, risk, etc. This is not place to expose the final product, if Olivia++ is less open, then it means they already established some decisions and design going well. Let's respect that

GB - this is the place to ask questions before the final buy. The design process is done, and before we put our money for creation they prepared, GB owner should be obligated to answer any question (and here IMHO is the place to judge anyone if there is lack of answer). GB runs for a month usually, so this is enough time for anyone to make the right decision before buy, save money or ask questions on GB threat.


PS: There is always drama when dealing with people and opinions what is right/wrong, on forums, at work, school but at least people are able to forgive. Let's be happy about the new set coming out and respect each other.

Have a good day!
Peace and love
xoxo

[olivia]

Updated the IC with the full details. Thank you very much friends for your patience!

[suparnemo]

Updated the IC with the full details. Thank you very much friends for your patience!

Looks great. Pricing is really good, too. Super hype!

[AlcoholEnthusiast]

Pricing looks great for the size of the kits. Super excited for this.

[KingOfMemes]

If my math is correct, I'm in for 1 base kit and 3 hi kits to fill out an alt layout hhkb

[8six753o9]

Oh wow I was expeciting $120 for base but this is even better!  Thanks Olivia and vendors!   

[xine007]

Thanks for all the hard work, Olivia and team!  I’m in for probably everything but ISO. Love the simple novelties 

[Puddsy]

Oh wow I was expeciting $120 for base but this is even better!  Thanks Olivia and vendors!   

presumably this is because it is v high MOQ

which it will meet because, olivia

[Aevyn]

Argh. I was actually hoping we'd be allowed to just purchase dark alphas separately instead of being forced to purchase a whole base kit. I feel like if you ran a legit IC, quite a few people would've voiced that opinion.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Puddsy]

Argh. I was actually hoping we'd be allowed to just purchase dark alphas separately instead of being forced to purchase a whole base kit..

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full base kit is more effective for more people, so that's probably why it was run

shouldn't be hard to sell the mods, should you choose to go that route

[LXVRGS]

Are the split white space bars missing from the space bars kit or is that just a render error?

[nasp]

If you're taking feedback...

I'd like to see split bars and the extra 'B' in the spacebar kit please. Preferably the white bars.

[Tom_Kazansky]

Are the split white space bars missing from the space bars kit or is that just a render error?

If you're taking feedback...

I'd like to see split bars and the extra 'B' in the spacebar kit please. Preferably the white bars.

they're in "Extra Mods" kit

[LXVRGS]

those are the accent space bars in the extension kit

[Kerasan]

why the price in Europe is so different than US? (it is information not a controversy)

[nappis]

Updated the IC with the full details. Thank you very much friends for your patience!

[martink]

why the price in Europe is so different than US? (it is information not a controversy)

mykeyboard.eu price includes 21% VAT.

[harlekein]

Group buy runners deal differently when someone repeatedly complains on their IC about the lack of X or Y kit or layout support.
Some confront those messages with short line answers and get the reputation of being massive ****s.
For some others it makes them less confident about their sets, and creates stress.

None of that would happen if there were clear cut, transparent answers that can convince all the people *****ing that they are being morons. It's always shady, beating around the bush ****. Imagine if runners just said, "Our budgeting estimates 1200 base kits sold around $X per kit, 600 of <insert kit here> sold for $Y a kit. NordeUK estimates 50 at $Z, and with our 5% safety  padding for all kits, presents way to much risk to run, so we aren't going to do it." OR "We don't feel like doing any risk assessment, and we also don't really give a **** about nordeuk anyway, so we just aren't going to do it."

No runner owes anybody any of this, but when they just brush people off with arrogance, they are going to look like a massive **** (your words), and they could have done something about it.

We have many examples of a designer trying to please everyone and then having issues during the group buy, ending up with the vendor purchasing kits to MOQ.

Wouldn't it be good to share those examples, for the sake of everyone in this thread? Designers, people *****ing about alt kits, and people *****ing about people *****ing about alt kits would all benefit with an example of where hype and hubris screwed over a vendor.

Again, none of this is owed to anyone, but if people actually cared about all these nordeuk fanboys complaining, there would be a post truly showing how stupid their complaints are. Everyone, INCLUDING NordDeUK fanboys, want a reason for Nordeuk fanboys to shutup, but nobody will give a clearcut reason. NorDeUk is obviously a relevant enough of a layout that it can soak up 4 pages in a month old thread, as well as be a whole meme for drama, but it's also apparently obvious (to runners, vendors, designers) to not run it. Why not just share what is so painfully obvious to runners with the low tier, plebeian drones, so it can be painfully obvious for them too?

Are you done wasting your parents internet bandwidth?

**** off m8

LUL I'm sorry did I upset you? Pardon me, let me just fall in line with everyone else

It's obviously a troll.

[Tennstrong]

R3 Backspace for hhkb layout reads "Delete"  in the renders

I'm gonna be in for [light] [dark] [novs] [hihihi] [spaces] and possibly [iso]  (as well as deskmats)

[dmxtrix]

Are the split white space bars missing from the space bars kit or is that just a render error?

If you're taking feedback...

I'd like to see split bars and the extra 'B' in the spacebar kit please. Preferably the white bars.

they're in "Extra Mods" kit

I think they're talking about white split spacebars and not the accent colored ones.

[OtherAndrew]

finally some good ****ing food

[Poesjuh]

@Olivia

Great kits! Love that there are two separate base kits so you won't be forced to buy an additional alpha kit!


One of the main things I hear a lot about the OG Olivia set is that there only are accents spacebars. With that in mind, have you considered adding alpha colored split spacebar support to perhaps the add-on kit or the spacebar kit? I honestly don't have an exact idea how to split this up, since it would either make the add-on kit very big (and most likely expensive) or would mean that for 40's support you'd have to buy both spacebar kit AND 40's kit. My first gut feeling would be to keep the add-on as-is but alpha colored split spacebar support to the spacebar kit making that slightly larger.