Author Topic: What would be your ideal keyboard?  (Read 21422 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bigpook

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1723
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 10:17:01 »
Perhaps you already have it and use it day to day.

For me it would be something in a HHKB layout with Unicomp BS keys.
Not likely to ever happen of course...

While I have tried most of whats out there and like them all for one reason or another, I find myself going between the HHKB and the Unicomp/IBM.

One is peanut butter and the other is chocolate.... if only they could be combined.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 10:46:01 »
I'm in the same boat.  HHKB with brown Cherrys would be awesome.  I can't wait until the Miniguru comes out.  Hurry up, Lowpoly.


Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 11:03:13 »
Beam Springs and Trackpoints. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Offline iMav

  • geekhack creator/founder
  • Location: Valley City, ND
  • "Τα εργαλεία σας είναι σημαντικά."
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 11:15:05 »
HHKB layout + blue cherrys (brown would be acceptable) + Trackpoint.

Offline elbowglue

  • Posts: 583
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 11:31:06 »
Tenkeyless PCB mounted cherry browns.  
Wait I can make that by chopping up my g80-3000LSCRC.. Hmm..
My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
Smallest to biggest keyboards in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position

KBC Poker: 11.6 x 3.9 - HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3 - Siig Minitouch (Geekhack Space Saver): 11.6 x 6 - Deck/Tg3 82: 12 x 6 - Noppoo Choc Mini 12.4 x 5.3 - Compaq "MX 84u": 13.1 x 7.5 - Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3 - Cherry "ricercar spos" G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75 - Topre Realforce 86u: 14.4 x 6.65 - Desko "elbowglue spos" MOS 5023 UP: 14.5 x 8.4 - IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7 - G80-1800: 15.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-125B: 16 x 7.3 - Compaq Mx11800, Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5 - Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 - Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-135B: 18.3 x 6.0 - Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6 - IBM Model M, Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27

Offline didjamatic

  • Posts: 1352
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 12:48:02 »
87u Topre that you can flip upside down to reveal a Filco with brown or blue cherries and a dampened switch plate to eliminate filco-reverb.  But both boards have the F-key row eliminated and Esc merged into Number row.

Trackpoint like IBM M13 but 4 programmable mouse buttons on the keyboard edge and some way to scroll, preferrably a modifier key to change trackpoint into scrollpoint.

USB ports on each end and far edge to allow hot plug of a keypad built for the keyboard, so you could place the tenkey on either side of the keyboard, OR on the top edge of the keyboard toward either end.

Textured Blank or Double-Shot Keys.

OR....

THIS:

« Last Edit: Fri, 16 April 2010, 12:53:03 by didjamatic »
IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 12:49:26 »
Quote from: didjamatic;172738
87u Topre that you can flip upside down to reveal a Filco with brown or blue cherries and a dampened switch plate to eliminate filco-reverb.

Trackpoint like IBM M13 but 4 programmable mouse buttons on the keyboard edge and some way to scroll, preferrably a modifier key to change trackpoint into scrollpoint.

USB ports on each end and far edge to allow hot plug of a tenkey built for the keyboard, so you could place the tenkey on either side of the keyboard, OR on the top edge of the keyboard toward either end.


Needy bastard.


Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 12:57:55 »
Hmmm, let me see...
HHKB size. In 2 parts to adjust/separate.
Wireless that works perfectly.
Fully programmable, with multiple layers.
Full NKRO over PS/2, optional USB driver to overcome normal limit.
Adjuster to change key force across the board.
Audible feedback via speaker - adjustable volume, changeable .wav file.
Tactile feedback that genuinely reflects precisely when keypress is registered.

I will probably think of more. Heated keycaps for those cold mornings?

Offline bigpook

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1723
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 14:05:07 »
I'll have whatever it is that you are smoking : )
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline didjamatic

  • Posts: 1352
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 14:26:28 »
Quote from: itlnstln;172739
Needy bastard.


Agreed.
IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 14:41:46 »
..

My ideal keyboard does not exist.

It is in the realm of "if only I could put one together with these features...."

...............
Spec_57

Offline InSanCen

  • Posts: 560
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 15:03:51 »
I think I have it. IBM M13 in black. The only thing I want to change is to make it blank, and maybe an ISO layout.

Saying that, an M13, with F mechanicals on USB. Now that I could go for, hell, WOULD go for.
Currently Using :- IBM M13 1996, Black :
Currently Own :- 1391406 1989 & 1990 : AT Model F 1985 : Boscom 122 (Black) : G80-3000 : G80-1800 (x2) : Wang 724 : G81-8000LPBGB (Card Reader, MY) : Unitek : AT102W : TVS Gold :
Project\'s :- Wang 724 Pink-->White Clicky : USB Model M : IBM LPFK :
Pointing stuff :- Logitech MX-518 : I-One Lynx R-15 Trackball : M13 Nipple : Microsoft Basic Optical\'s
:

Offline pfink

  • Posts: 196
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 15:16:43 »
Filco tenkeyless form factor and layout with buckling springs.

Offline bigpook

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1723
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 17:15:21 »
Quote from: pfink;172770
Filco tenkeyless form factor and layout with buckling springs.


: ) that would be nice.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 17:21:07 »
The M2 is around the size of a fullsize Filco... Just watch out for those capacitors!

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 17:22:33 »
Super Carrier buckling spring 122-key (membrane is fine but capacitive preferred for reliability), with a volume knob, trackpad to the right of the numpad, trackball in the M5-2 position, trackball in the M5-1 position, trackpoint and buttons in their usual spots, and natively PS/2 in interface for the keyboard while USB for the pointing devices, but with each operating as in independent device (so basically an integrated USB hub for them to share, plus one or two ports available outside the case), in black with chrome highlights, original silver/black metal IBM logo, dark blue backlighting but dim with dark red backlighting (again dim) around the lock keys when locks activated.

And a ridge at the top to act as a pen holder, somewhat more defined than what's on the existing cases.

And software to easily map the extra keys to anything you want, including keyboard-side macros saved to memory in the keyboard itself.

And a dedicated calculator function for the numpad.

And an ESC key, with either a Cherry blue or white ALPS switch just for fun, in the upper left of the keyboard, with a doubleshot Geekhack key attached.
« Last Edit: Fri, 16 April 2010, 17:59:50 by kishy »
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline Mercen_505

  • Posts: 200
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 17:52:25 »
Ideal? Let's start dreaming a little.

I'll take an IBM M13 casing and use white Alps switches with black doubleshot two-piece keys... failing that at least two piece keys in black with white legends that won't rub off over time. USB support + PS2 to be on the safe side, with amber LEDs under the lock indicators.

Offline pfink

  • Posts: 196
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 18:21:40 »
Quote from: ch_123;172831
The M2 is around the size of a fullsize Filco... Just watch out for those capacitors!

I've still got two of them, however I've decided that tenkeyless is the way to go.

Have any of the kbdmania guys ever modded an M2 into a tenkeyless?

Offline hyperlinked

  • Posts: 924
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 18:46:43 »
I would love a slightly quieter low force buckling spring in a compact 104-key with a built in multi-touch pad and Matias Optimizer layout built in.

Or maybe an easy to push scissor switch that feels like a bucking spring. I'm not sure if this would be really ideal for me, but it just sounds like fun.
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 20:36:48 »
..

I'd have to agree with most of what Kishy has suggested as a fantasy wish-list in a keyboard...good place to start....and to add a few items of my own...

The 122-key terminal type board...I'd want to exchange the number pad with the double row vertical keys, ie a "left-handed" terminal board...with...
the keypad being a five by five grid

The area around the arrow keys filled in ...ie a three by five grid

Windows keys (remapped in firmware) and the Alt-Gr key

Keys colourized, using some of Quadibloc's illustrations as inspiration...

A power on LED

Keyboard repeat rate and acceleration set in the keyboard, not in software...

A true Shift-Lock (instead of the stupid Windows Stinky-keys) in addition to a Caps-Lock (ie Shift + CapsLock = board-wide Shifted keys)..on the board instead of in the keyboard driver (the German one has a Shift-Lock)...with an LED indicator of course...

...and typewriter-like...the CapsLock and/or ShiftLock keys reset to normal by hitting any Shift key...

An additional Enter key where the CapsLock key normally sits...done in firmware, not in the registry...

An indicator LED for the Insert key....

Mouse keys implemented in the keyboard, not in Windows or software...again with an indicator LED for it...

...and speaking of indicator LEDs...instead of having them steady-on...how about replacing them with self-blimking LEDs?  .. or maybe have them flash...think of the British telephone ringing cadence....

A small speaker or piezo audio device in the keyboard, for indicator LEDs on and off...for keystrokes...via audio file(s) stored on-board, not done in software via Windows...

A mouse repater jack (PS/2) working along side, ie simultaneously with the embedded pointing stick...perhaps with a PS/2 "Splitter"...so plug in a mouse and trackball into repeater jacks mounted in the keyboard itself...

A CAT5 cable as the keyboard's cable.., having 4 sets of twisted pairs means...

(1)  B+ and Gnd
(2)  PS/2 - Mouse Clk and Data
(3)  PS/2 - Keyboard  Clk and Data
(4)  USB -  Data + and Data -

An SD or MMC card in the keyboard with setup information on it, removable and setup files put on in any card reader-writer...or perhaps having the ISP pins accessible for programming...maybe even doing it "live" with a live reload....

....and...blah...blah...blah...could go on forever....enough...enough!

:-)


...............
Spec_57
« Last Edit: Fri, 16 April 2010, 22:50:41 by Specter_57 »

Offline ricercar

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1697
  • Location: Silicon Valley
  • mostly abides
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 20:48:01 »
My perfect keyboard is in progress.

Artist's Concept:



  • Form Factor - Kinesis Advantage, but adjustable
  • FKeys - normal size (not Kinesis chicklet)
  • Cursor Control - Trackball: Billiard-ball sized, centered between thumb keygroups; Buttons: 3-button with center button scroll feature
  • Numeric keypad- centered between between finger keygroups
  • Key Switch - Cherry blue
  • Color Scheme - blue and black
  • Connection - USB
  • Programmable
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 20:52:26 »
..

Shouldn't that be a black-8?

...............
Spec_57

Offline ricercar

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1697
  • Location: Silicon Valley
  • mostly abides
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 21:01:14 »
Nah, the blue of the 10 is more important. I use base 10 more often than base 8. Besides, every schmoo has an 8-ball.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 21:53:00 »
Quote from: ricercar;172873
My perfect keyboard is in progress.

Artist's Concept:

Show Image


  • Form Factor - Kinesis Advantage, but adjustable
  • FKeys - normal size (not Kinesis chicklet)
  • Cursor Control - Trackball: Billiard-ball sized, centered between thumb keygroups; Buttons: 3-button with center button scroll feature
  • Numeric keypad- centered between between finger keygroups
  • Key Switch - Cherry blue
  • Color Scheme - blue and black
  • Connection - USB
  • Programmable
How are you going to manage adjustable when there's a keypad and trackball between the wells? You'd need a pretty damn fancy sliding mechanism to adjust the angle and separation of the wells while maintaining those things in the center. Even if you managed that, you'd still have a gap between the wells and center piece.

Offline eunjea

  • Posts: 31
    • http://kbdholic.net/
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 22:11:02 »


I love my ten(win)keyless dell ssaver but I need to swap all switch. The problem is I want NEW alps blue or pink switch. ;-)

Offline kriminal

  • Posts: 424
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 16 April 2010, 23:47:34 »
white filco tenkeyless with detachable cable, double shot white keys with black lettering, leds built into caps\scroll switch
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline clickclack

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 942
  • Board Chow EXTRAORDINAIRE
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 01:38:31 »
Quote from: didjamatic;172738
87u Topre that you can flip upside down to reveal a Filco with brown or blue cherries...


HAAAHAAAAAAA!!!! WERD!


I guess I would go with whatever it is that I am currently making... ;)
And a how you say... ah yes "miniguru" =D
862+ keyboards and counting!   R.I.P.ster          Vendor link ->Clack Factory

Offline ricercar

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1697
  • Location: Silicon Valley
  • mostly abides
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 01:43:08 »
Quote from: Zalusithix;172891
How are you going to manage adjustable when there's a keypad and trackball between the wells? You'd need a pretty damn fancy sliding mechanism to adjust the angle and separation of the wells while maintaining those things in the center. Even if you managed that, you'd still have a gap between the wells and center piece.


The adjustable part can be implemented with rack rail sliders; I have some 7" sliders. The central portion will be immobile on a base, while the R & L keygroups will adjust.

The 'enclosurre' will be sacrificed for adjustability. I saw a photograph from The Matrix in which a Kinesis Contour was de-enclosed and the keygroups mounted near each other. Sacrificing the enclosure for adjustability will be the last step, and has a close dependency to how effectively my thumbs can use the trackball while my palms are completely stationary (as I use the Kinesis Contour today).

A previous experiment proved to me that I can't use a centrally-mounted tween-thumb trackpad without lifting my hands from my accustomed typing positions. I've been testing thumb-only trackball manipulation and have higher hopes.

An asymmetrica build with a small trackball on one thumb and a trackpoint under the other is a fallback plan. However a large ball and a symmmetrical design appeal to my aesthetic far more than this.
« Last Edit: Sat, 17 April 2010, 01:50:21 by ricercar »
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 11:41:53 »
Quote from: pfink;172844
I've still got two of them, however I've decided that tenkeyless is the way to go.

Have any of the kbdmania guys ever modded an M2 into a tenkeyless?


In the M2, the controller (which is quite small, even by today's standards) is right above the numpad, and there's no space elsewhere in the keyboard where it could hide, so no.

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 20:11:01 »
My ideal keyboard would be something along the line of a Unicomp On The Ball Plus with the trackpoint and trackball.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline ricercar

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1697
  • Location: Silicon Valley
  • mostly abides
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 23:50:38 »
^ nice
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline DreymaR

  • Posts: 184
  • Location: Norway
  • Colemak forum guy
    • DreymaR's Big Bag of Kbd Tricks
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 02:39:31 »
Quote from: ricercar;172873
My perfect keyboard is in progress.


Sorry for derailing, but: I wonder if there are hex-labeled billiard ball sets...
Better burden you cannot carry than man-wisdom much ~ Hávamál

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 03:23:54 »
splitted keyboard like kinesis contoured, with blue mx-switches and keypads arranged by an angel of 20-22°, flat not curved, also the thumb keys should be re-arranged! ..of course a trackpad or trackball located between the two keypads would be fine..

..more..in due time..
« Last Edit: Mon, 19 April 2010, 04:18:12 by noctua »
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline zerocool

  • Posts: 11
    • http://www.tecnocondor.com
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 09:56:47 »
thats a kool design
Technology News and Reviews At tecnocondor.com

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 13:34:17 »
Quote from: zerocool;173447
thats a kool design


patience and you'll see! :tape2:
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 18:15:11 »
How about a tenkeyless that comes with a docking station to become full-sized?



Sadly, the HP 5302 keyboard is NOT such a thing, judging by what I've googled.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 18:29:38 »
Why a docking station? A design like the MS SideWinder X6 makes a lot more sense. Just have the numpad detachable from the main keyboard.


Offline NOMiS

  • Posts: 129
    • http://teamvga.com
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 19 April 2010, 22:17:05 »
Lots of great ideas, I really like the 10keyless Filco sized buckling spring. I've very satisfied with this filco, but if there was one thing I could change about it is...

A driverless controller that lets you remap keys in the firmware, and with drivers have application detection.

This way I always have my custom setup, even with direct input.
Steelseries Xai
Poker X KBC (Red)

Offline Morning Song

  • Posts: 90
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 24 April 2010, 02:35:59 »
My ideal keyboard would be a white-letters-on-black, 104-key version of the model M with full N-key rollover and usb/ps2 support and detachable cable. I like keyboards that you have to register as a weapon. Media/programmable keys might be nice, but they'd have to look the same as regular keys.

Alternately, same as above but usb-rechargable bluetooth.

I'd also love if they made black keyboards with two-tone keycaps like the beige/brown keys on the Model M, but that's easy enough to get the old fashioned way (insofar as RIT dye is old fashioned :) )
« Last Edit: Sat, 24 April 2010, 02:40:37 by Morning Song »
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 25 April 2010, 06:56:00 »
Possibly the M-15.
Current collection: HHKB Pro 2 black on black, HHKB Pro 2 white/grey blank, [strike]Dell AT101W[/strike] (sold to SirClickAlot), 1992 Model M, Key Tronic Ergoforce KT 2001, BTC 5100 C. Dead boards: MS Natural Elite, MS Natural 4000.

Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 1624
  • Location: Newark, OH, USA
  • this switch can tick sound of music
    • bhtooefr.org
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 25 April 2010, 20:45:40 »
I've not used beam springs yet (got some on the way, though,) but they sound exactly like what I want.

That said, my dream keyboard is two boards.

Something as "well-oiled" and tactile as buckling spring, while being as light as a blue Cherry MX.

104-key layout, I don't need anything fancy there.

TrackPoint IV. (Both the negative inertia and the scroll button, please.)

The second keyboard... the same switch feel, but much thinner, somehow. Again, TrackPoint IV. And, standard 6x-series ThinkPad keyboard layout.

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 00:05:31 »
Hmm. My "ideal" keyboard...

Well, if I'm dreaming, I'd have it use the kind of keyswitch found on the IBM 3278 terminal, or the IBM 5100 portable computer.

I would want the keyboard to be fully user-programmable, like the forthcoming Miniguru, or like many point-of-sale keyboards.

And the layout? It's so hard to decide. Do I want a compact keyboard, one with a standard 104-key layout, or something with a lot of extra keys?

Do I want the main typing area to follow the 101-key standard, or do I want the Enter key to be enlarged, even if that means moving some keys out of the way?

That is, perhaps something like this:



Rather than getting lost in a maze of possibilities that never ends, I think I'd opt for a Unicomp 3153 terminal keyboard - like a 101-key model M, but with one extra key in the numeric keypad - with the electronics replaced to make it a programmable PC keyboard.

One extra key opens up a world of possibilities, but one of them would be for the keyboard to be almost identical to the standard.
« Last Edit: Mon, 26 April 2010, 00:09:51 by quadibloc »

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 09:27:45 »
Quote from: eunjea;172894
Show Image


I love my ten(win)keyless dell ssaver but I need to swap all switch. The problem is I want NEW alps blue or pink switch. ;-)


Looks like you raped a NeXT keyboard for its keys. I feel like shouting "Sacre bleu!" and spitting on the ground. (and I'm not even French)

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 09:29:21 »
Quote from: mr_a500;177242
(and I'm not even French)

But you are Canadian.  If you live near Quebec, that's close enough.


Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 09:40:08 »
That's quote-worthy.


Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 15:33:30 »
Quote from: ripster;177247
I raped my NeXT and tossed it into the trash.

That's how Vintage I am.


There's a special Hell for people like you... where demons harvest whatever body parts they want from you and toss the rest into the trash. (...actually the "Recycle bin", to be processed and re-formed so they can do the procedure over... and over again... for eternity) ;)

Offline porgo

  • Posts: 25
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 12:20:48 »
Das Kb Model 2 ... split like in the pic



And some nice keys in the upper section to be configured any way I want. The usual battery of multimedia keys would suffice, their rebinding is easy in Linux.

This would be pretty ideal to me :)
There are no ESC keys in prison (poor vim users)

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 14:25:48 »
I absolutely love the quality, feel and look of the early TI-99/4A keyboard. There are a few different versions of that keyboard so if you think I'm crazy, you probably have never tried the version I'm talking about. The plastic has a thick, quality feel like nothing else I've ever tested (except maybe TRS-80 Model III) and doesn't seem to go shiny with wear like other thick sculpted plastic keys in keyboards like the Kaypro portables. The text in the double-shot keys is thick, centred, crisp and doesn't yellow over time. The feel of the switches is similar to the Apple Extended (M0115), but has a more satisfying "higher quality" solid feel.

So, my ideal keyboard would be something with the same feel, look and quality of the early TI-99/4A, with Amiga 500 US layout (nice big Help & Enter keys) in a thick aluminium case (maybe like the Kaypro  "portables"). I would also go for something similar, but with IBM XT-style buckling spring switches.

Offline didjamatic

  • Posts: 1352
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 17:01:11 »
Ti99/4a... My first computer and my avatar.  :)
IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 18:03:35 »
Quote from: didjamatic;179311
Ti99/4a... My first computer and my avatar.  :)

That's one of those horrible cost-cutting "albino" TI-99/4A monstrosities. No, I meant the earliest black & silver one:



I also have another black & silver one, but it has keys with slightly rounded corners, has cheaper key plastic and a worse feel.

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 21:32:09 »
Here's a picture of my Kaypro, in case people have never seen one and don't know what the hell I'm talking about:



Just look at those lovely double-shot keys.

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:09:44 »
Quote from: mr_a500;179401
Here's a picture of my Kaypro, in case people have never seen one and don't know what the hell I'm talking about:

Show Image


Just look at those lovely double-shot keys.


From a land before time, when the lost race of luggables roamed the earth.

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:17:28 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;179407
From a land before time, when the lost race of luggables roamed the earth.


The race is not entirely lost. Four of them survived and are living in my house. They're gathered in a herd, feeding off my electricity. They're endangered, so I like to keep them around, but if my electricity bills get too high, I'll have to kill one of the poor bastards.

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 10 May 2010, 17:36:15 »
Quote from: didjamatic;179311
Ti99/4a... My first computer and my avatar.  :)



Your first computer was a shoe? Lucky you.
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 May 2010, 17:39:20 by mr_a500 »

Offline nanu

  • Posts: 290
    • http://T-T.be/portal
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:13:22 »
hmm, let's see:

- wireless and wired (plug in wire to also charge)
- no LED indicators
- NKRO
- branding, if any, on bottom
- fully realtime-reprogrammable (through software that communicates with keyboard; but imagine the security issues with this)
- ps/2 and usb

- small footprint/minimum bezel, optional case bottom with holes for mounting somewhere

- keycaps whose surface is harder than fingernails (some fancy nanotubey carbon?)
- as or more silent than scissor-switches
- programmable actuation force curve per switch
- self-cleaning mechanism? ultrasonic? maybe that wouldn't work at all with oily particles
- optional hydraulics (for dust shaking and tilt adjustment?)
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:15:41 by nanu »

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 11 May 2010, 09:32:56 »
Quote from: nanu;180825
- optional hydraulics (for dust shaking and tilt adjustment?)


This is geekhack, not gangstahack!


Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 11 May 2010, 10:06:46 »
Epic pic.  I like the USB ports on the front.


Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2316
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 24 May 2010, 10:27:58 »
Quote from: ricercar;172927
1-The adjustable part can be implemented with rack rail sliders; I have some 7" sliders. The central portion will be immobile on a base, while the R & L keygroups will adjust.


2-The 'enclosurre' will be sacrificed for adjustability. I saw a photograph from The Matrix in which a Kinesis Contour was de-enclosed and the keygroups mounted near each other. Sacrificing the enclosure for adjustability will be the last step, and has a close dependency to how effectively my thumbs can use the trackball while my palms are completely stationary (as I use the Kinesis Contour today).


3-A previous experiment proved to me that I can't use a centrally-mounted tween-thumb trackpad without lifting my hands from my accustomed typing positions. I've been testing thumb-only trackball manipulation and have higher hopes.


4-An asymmetrica build with a small trackball on one thumb and a trackpoint under the other is a fallback plan. However a large ball and a symmmetrical design appeal to my aesthetic far more than this.



1-Like a Comfort Keyboard base setup?

2-The picture...is it the photo I use in my mod blog, or different? I'd like to see it (or any other related info...)

3-Thumb only will always be a problem due to dexterity issues :(

4-Rollermouse integration??
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 1624
  • Location: Newark, OH, USA
  • this switch can tick sound of music
    • bhtooefr.org
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 25 May 2010, 05:21:11 »
Potential spam reported.

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 25 May 2010, 05:22:00 »
"Potential"?

Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 1624
  • Location: Newark, OH, USA
  • this switch can tick sound of music
    • bhtooefr.org
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 25 May 2010, 06:28:59 »
Hey, I've been flamed on forums before for saying that sig spam was definitely spam.

Offline Morning Song

  • Posts: 90
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 02:59:36 »
Well, i was futzing around on a planning out a mod project, and ended up getting carried away and designing my dream layout :D Sort of a nightmarish lovechild of a Northgate, an IBM 122key terminal board, and an a matias tactile pro. The ultimate anti-spacesaver.



I figure those PF keys would end up being multimedia/shortcut keys. And i have no clue what the key above escape would be, but the layout looked weird without it there.

All i have to do now is invade Kentucky and subjugate Unicomp. Muahahahahahaaaa!
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 05:18:52 »
huhh.. lots of keys, pleasing dark color scheme! You have a 30" monitor?
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Morning Song

  • Posts: 90
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 07:53:26 »
Sadly, no. Just 22". So yeah, if this were real, it would be wider than my monitor. But it's only been recently that i've had a monitor wider than my keyboard anyway.
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 07:57:16 »
Quote from: porgo;179206
Das Kb Model 2 ... split like in the pic

Show Image




Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 1624
  • Location: Newark, OH, USA
  • this switch can tick sound of music
    • bhtooefr.org
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 13:06:28 »
One that allows me to type "THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG." with both shift keys held down.

Because anything else is utter crap.

Offline J888www

  • Posts: 270
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 29 May 2010, 09:31:16 »
My ideal keyboard is the one I will be typing on 'Tomorrow'. Every time I find a KBD which matches my criteria changes.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2316
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:12:08 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;186610
Potential spam reported.


Is that a reference to my sig I made a couple weeks ago with the manufacturer links?

If having the links is poor forum etiquette, I'll dump it immediately.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2316
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:26:17 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;186614
Hey, I've been flamed on forums before for saying that sig spam was definitely spam.


I thought maybe this in reference to my sig due to it's timing and placement. I'm not much of a forum junkie, and am not very familiar with all nuances of what may/may not be acceptable. I can see how links might not be smiled upon.

Don't want to step on any of your protocols :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 1624
  • Location: Newark, OH, USA
  • this switch can tick sound of music
    • bhtooefr.org
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 14:13:38 »
Nah, it was someone that made an account to advertise cabinets or something. Suggestion: When you delete spam, delete the comments about it, too, or edit the comments to say that the spam is gone now.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2316
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 18:51:41 »
Oh, you didn't want to buy my made-in-China-lead-tainted-human-rights-abuse-cabinets?

Noted for future reference.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 09:40:19 »
Quote from: noctua;173395
splitted keyboard like kinesis contoured, with blue mx-switches and keypads arranged by an angel of 20-22°, flat not curved, also the thumb keys should be re-arranged! ..of course a trackpad or trackball located between the two keypads would be fine..

..more..in due time..


I got completely the wrong idea when I read "by an angel of 20-22, flat not curved" :D

Although an angel of 20-22 along with a keyboard is not such a bad marketing idea.

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 11:56:57 »
Probably a dark gray Realforce 104 or 105 key with all 55g weighted keys and white (or some other light colored) lettering. And an 87 key version to go with it :D

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Posts: 634
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 15:19:53 »
Switches
In short, a parameter-adjustable metal scissors mechanism with a spring to hit a hammer to hit something nice. Able to be repaired, replaced, cleaned and greased in home conditions.

Layout
No clutter. No non-standard key locations, BUT:

- PrtSc, Scroll Lock and Pause could removed or retained under their historical names but made programmable.
- Insert key should have a LED (for text editors).
- LEDS for Locks should be higher on the bezel, with a row of programmable keys above the numerical section instead.
- No right Windows key, no ALT+SPACE key.
- Plus sign, minus sign, slash and asterisk are enough once--either location could be replaced with something more useful.
- I wouldn't order this for myself but some people are used to typing digits from the numerical keyboard (e.g. my mother)--therefore they don't really need the horizontal digity row, which could be used for something different (function keys come to mind);
- Some folks don't ever use at least some of the functionalities of the numerical section, e.g. I only use Num Lock to turn off the LED, the Enter key and the maths operator keys; I wouldn't mind having the option to custom-swap them for something else (I don't even necessarily mean programmable).

Here's what I'd find useful from my own point of view (I don't necessarily need them hardware; simple Windows binds would be enough):

- Additional keys with advanced and foreign punctuation marks (e.g. French quotations, Spanish exclamation and question marks etc.)--three per key (SHIFT and ALT combos), so this shouldn't take too much space.
- § sign right on the board (very important feature in legal texts, particularly those from the continental legal tradition because common law can do without it). It's so annoying to have to type ALT+0167 all the time (many programs execute it with a leftward cursor movement to make it worse and text editors can jump the cursor to the next paragraph!).
- Separate modifier keys (i.e. like the AltGr key) for the most popular types of modifications of Latin letters (accents, umlauts etc.) or at least "dead" keys (what you press before to alter the next char that comes out). For example you could squeeze four where LEDS normally are or put them on the bezel, whatever.

Note that the dead keys can be achieved to some extent with programmable keys at least for use in Microsoft Office because Microsoft Office uses dead keys fur such purposes.

I suppose one could also rebind the numerical keyboard or the PrtSc, Scroll Lock and Pause in a software way. I don't know about that. (Please let me know if you do.)

I believe volume control and the like could be done by e.g. putting tiny wheel switches (or +/-) on the side. I wouldn't mind. It would be my personal preference to use something that looks like a bona fide volume wheel because volume keys hurt my sensibilities and so do excessive macro keys with software binds. ;) Just a bit of a reactionary sentiment on my part. ;)

Connector
PS/2, USB on option since this thing would cost enough to be shipped on demand only anyway. There should be an option to purchase a dedicated and tested active converted for the other port. Firewire or some other port on option.

Cordless version
The wireless version available on option should be equipped with adequate protections to prevent any deterioration whatsoever in response/accuracy. Integrated charger plus detachable cable for power grid connection. Backup chamber for a backup pair of batteries for a seamless switch. Acoustic and visual low power warning (e.g. green/yellow/red LED separately for main and emergency pair of batteries). Detachable cable to allow the wireless user to skip the wireless whenever he should want to. IRDA/Bluetooth on option (or even both included).

Jacks and ports
Only if there's no pooling of any kind of thing.

Casing
Solid, not yielding under typing fingers, good acoustic designs. Only Philips screws or screwless. Variable colours (e.g. with rarer ones on demand but always at least white and black). Heavy. No fake chrome or anything that will go off.

Water resistance etc.
Yes, please. And good enough design and workmanship to avoid unnecessary exposition to easily avoidable mechanical and other damage (e.g. by economising on anything that's cheap anyway).

Spare parts
Easy replaceability of parts and spare part availability (no extended waiting or non-identical replacements). Warnings against non-obvious ways of damaging the keyboard (e.g. don't use this or that detergent, don't try to pry this or that off etc.)--paper manual and working URL.

Manufacturer logo[/n]
Stylish and matching (e.g. no white backgrounds if the keyboard is black).

Custom dedications and captions on demand
E.g. "From Mum", "Coder of the Year", "Litigation Department".

Trackball
Cost-effective ergonomically placed trackball e.g. above function keys, centre or left/right on option. Solely to avoid unnecessary hand movement onto the mouse. Wouldn't mind a touchpad option but wouldn't order it either.

Offline chrs

  • Posts: 25
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 15:39:58 »
Yes, parameter-adjustable keys!
a) "preload" force (force needed to start motion).
b) slope of force vs. position (spring constant).
c) amount of tactile feedback at actuation point.
d) travel to actuation point.
e) travel beyond actuation point.
f) abrupt vs. gradual bottoming at end of travel.

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 16:44:59 »
Quote from: zefrer;225373
Although an angel of 20-22 along with a keyboard is not such a bad marketing idea.
Usually, a keyboard is inclined at an angle of 10°-12°, however. On the other hand, an angel 20 to 22 years in age is something one has to find on one's own...

Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 17:01:25 »
[H=3]Layout[/H]

My current layout on Kinesis contoured keyboards is:



(Colours are for illustration, not the keys themselves.)

I use vi, hence the large thumb ESC symmetrical with Return.

First, I want additional modifier keys. Besides Control (for generating ASCII control characters), GUI (for menu shortcuts - Command on the Mac, Meta in X), and AltGr (for extended characters; Option on the Mac, Level 3 Shift in X), I want a separate modifier for code extension in vim (mostly for cscope), and another for window manager operations, to avoid using the mouse much. These must be symmetrically available to both hands.

Second, the function keys should be proper keys, although I don't use them much.

My current plan (with some keys still unassigned) is roughly this:



The curvature will be slightly tighter than Kinesis', since I have stubby fingers, and the thumb block probably tilted slightly to reduce the reach. I'm currently prototyping this.

The two halves will be separate and have adjustable tilt in all axes with a locking ball or u-joint mount at the back.

[H=3]Keycaps[/H]

My ideal keyboard would have heavy double-shot keycaps with dished (roughly spherical, rather than cylindrical) tops, Selectric-style.

My current compromise is to use blank spherical profile keycaps, Signature's type DSA, which are scheduled to be made at the end of the month. I have no idea yet how or whether I will label them.

[H=3]Switches[/H]

Ideally, I want a sharp tactile response like buckling springs. However, I'd like slightly lower force, minimal pre-travel, and much longer available post-travel with progressively increasing force so I never bottom out.



Of course, these keys don't exist, and won't until I'm a zillionaire.

As a practical matter, I'm going to use hybrid ALPS switches with AEKII rubber-baby-buggy-bumper stems, and springs still to be determined. I've been looking into some kind of damped flexible mount for the switches to reduce the impact of bottoming out, but that will probably come to nothing.

Offline Arc'xer

  • Posts: 482
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 17:28:05 »
Quote from: kps;225974
[H=3]Switches[/H]

Ideally, I want a sharp tactile response like buckling springs. However, I'd like slightly lower force, minimal pre-travel, and much longer available post-travel with progressively increasing force so I never bottom out.



Of course, these keys don't exist, and won't until I'm a zillionaire.

As a practical matter, I'm going to use hybrid ALPS switches with AEKII rubber-baby-buggy-bumper stems, and springs still to be determined. I've been looking into some kind of damped flexible mount for the switches to reduce the impact of bottoming out, but that will probably come to nothing.

That switch diagram reminds me a lot of the Beam-spring diagram linear travel starting at 25g, sharp tactile at 50-50g(blue-like) and ending with a heavy resistance of around 80-100.

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 17:52:45 »
That was the force graph for the original buckling spring, which was never used.

The Beam Spring has a slightly shorter than average travel, and its tactile point is near the end. It doesn't really bottom out hard because of the fact that the actuator pulls upwards, instead of pushing down on something.

Offline ricercar

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1697
  • Location: Silicon Valley
  • mostly abides
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 19:38:05 »
The extra key on the "outside" of each thumb group would interfere with reaching the "inside" thumb keys, or require one to lift the palm higher for the thumb to reach inside keys. I'd suggest an extra key "below" each thumb group instead.

I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 24 September 2010, 02:06:25 »
Quote from: zefrer;225373
I got completely the wrong idea when I read "by an angel of 20-22, flat not curved" :D

Although an angel of 20-22 along with a keyboard is not such a bad marketing idea.


lol.. after an reasonable test phase the flat variant is not so good..
for longer typing sessions of course ;-)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Senor_Cartmenez

  • Posts: 264
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 24 September 2010, 04:53:30 »
Either:

A Deck Legend tenkeyless with German layout and media keys (few would suffice, most importantly sound off, increase/decrease volume). Choice between blues,blacks,reds and browns/clears AND 3 different fonts to choose from, all of course those kinda double shots that Deck makes: classic "LotR" Deck font, standard 0815 "Cherry" font, another unique font (but please not the "Tron" style from the iOne / black widow)

Or:

A Filco tenkeyless with double shot keys, some neat LED lighting and media keys (few would suffice, most importantly sound off, increase/decrease volume). Oh and German layout.

Or:
A Deck 82, German layout, media keys (see above), choice between blues, blacks, reds and browns/clears and the fonts ;)

Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:48:10 »
Quote from: ricercar;226042
The extra key on the "outside" of each thumb group would interfere with reaching the "inside" thumb keys, or require one to lift the palm higher for the thumb to reach inside keys. I'd suggest an extra key "below" each thumb group instead.


That's a possibility, though from my experience with the Kinesiseses, the position I show seems easier to reach. Space and backspace are the thumb home keys, so it's like the Z row for the fingers. It may be different if I tilt the thumb group, though. Maybe I'll add both, and see which gets used -- I do have electrical room to add two keys to the thumb "column".

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #83 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 08:54:15 »
My idea of an ideal keyboard has already been expressed, at least in bits and pieces, in other threads. It's an impossibly extravagant and impractical idea, however.

It would be a beam spring keyboard, so as to have the best possible tactile feedback.

The layout would preferably be similar to that of the console keyboard of the IBM System/32. That is, a classic Selectric layout with a large Enter key.

The keys would be old-style cupped keys with centered legends, instead of PC-style cylinder keys with left-justified legends.

The keyboard would be able to be connected to a Macintosh or to a Sun workstation in addition to a Wintel box. The keys would be programmable. There would be several preprogrammed setups, and included among those setups would be an option to behave like a 122-key terminal emulation keyboard.

I want to have the Windows keys, but I don't want them to be in the way. I want a numeric keypad, but I want the keyboard to be compact. Attempting to reconcile these conflicting criteria, I end up with a layout like this:



which, for good reasons, probably nobody would like - so I'm still at the drawing board (and now I've improved it a bit, bringing it closer to the standard arrangement).
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 September 2010, 09:37:21 by quadibloc »

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5039
  • Location: Koriko
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 09:37:58 »
I have been toying with the idea of a split keyboard with a layout similar to µTron but more curved although not as much as a Kinesis. The Tab and Enter keys should be towards the center struck by the index fingers.
All alphanumeric keys, Enter, Tab, etc. should be struck by fingers and be clicky almost like buckling springs, actuate at a quite low force but have a very deep travel with increasing resistance so that I never bottom out.
All modifier keys should be thumb-keys and be linear, like a Cherry MX Black.
Arrow/navigation keys should be on a third separate keyboard with switches that are only tactile, like cream ALPS.
Each of the two main keyboard parts should be a USB keyboard on its own and have a USB hub so that you can choose to connect either Left->Right->host or Right->Left->Host.
🍉

Offline vicz

  • Posts: 32
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 23:01:20 »
My dream keyboard has a layout pretty similar to the Canon Cat (near bottom of page). Replace the big key in the upper right with two normal-sized keys (a la HHKB), cut the dangling bit off the Enter key and restore Right shift to its normal size. Add the usual complement of arrow and function keys, in their usual layout, and you've got something really nice. (Once again, Jef Raskin was there long before us.)

Mapping: backspace above Enter, as on the HHKB. Ctrl left of A, of course. The two red "leap" keys, in easy reach of the thumbs, would be Escape and AltGr for me (I use vim and type on a French Canadian keyboard), but non-vi users could try mapping one of them as Backspace.

Switches: my dream keyboard has Canon AP-800 series typewriter keyswitches, which is probably what the Cat keyboard already has, being contemporary with those typewriters.

Offline msiegel

  • Posts: 1230
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 00:29:22 »
a compact symmetric colemak board with model F switches.
sandwiched between steel plates instead of in a case.


Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline msiegel

  • Posts: 1230
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 00:38:09 »
slowwwly but surely :)

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline msiegel

  • Posts: 1230
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 01:12:03 »
yes, it's a long story :D

about the layout: i'm beginning to understand the appeal of the vi editor, and wanted to rely less on dedicated special-function keys. the green keys are user assignable, so arrows are one good use.

the rest of the story is... while trying to absorb enough about analog electronics to implement a new sensor circuit for model f switches, i started learning colemak on a qwerty layout. but then realized the staggering is reversed for the left hand! :( so i didn't want to make a standard-layout board, it has to be symmetric.

unfortunately, haven't had time for hardware hacking since last fall, but i've gradually tidied up a symmetric colemak layout, and as of now i'm back to needing to figure out a sensor design. i'm sure it's do-able, i'm just not really an electronics guy, so it is slow going :)

if the electronics do go well, then i'll seriously consider having steel plates laser cut. i can probably handle the pcb, foam, and gasket rubber myself ;)

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5039
  • Location: Koriko
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 07:13:10 »
Quote from: vicz;226856
My dream keyboard has a layout pretty similar to the Canon Cat (near bottom of page).

I have also seen pictures of several Japanese keyboards with what I suppose are a pair of Kana keys below the space bar, as opposed to being on the space bar's sides. One of them was for FM Towns, but I don't know if there are any that are PC-compatible.
BTW. There are also a few pics of the Canon Cat's keyboard in its Wikipedia entry
🍉

Offline JBert

  • Posts: 764
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 07:34:16 »
Quote from: msiegel;226877
yes, it's a long story :D

about the layout: i'm beginning to understand the appeal of the vi editor, and wanted to rely less on dedicated special-function keys. the green keys are user assignable, so arrows are one good use.
The problem is that while vi may well do without all those extra keys, it's all those other programs out there that rely on them.
IBM Model F XT + Soarer's USB Converter || Cherry G80-3000/Clears

The storage list:
IBM Model F AT || Cherry G80-3000/Blues || Compaq MX11800 (Cherry brown, bizarre layout) || IBM KB-8923 (model M-style RD) || G81-3010 Hxx || BTC 5100C || G81-3000 Sxx || Atari keyboard (?)


Currently ignored by: nobody?

Disclaimer: we don\'t help you save money on [strike]keyboards[/strike] hardware, rather we make you feel less bad about your expense.
[/SIZE]

Offline msiegel

  • Posts: 1230
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 11:08:53 »
Quote from: JBert;226910
The problem is that while vi may well do without all those extra keys, it's all those other programs out there that rely on them.

that's what Fn is for :)

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 17:40:51 »
To tell you guys the truth, the ideal keyboard for me would just be a run-of-the-mill Model M. I'm happy with the layout and love the feel of the buckling springs.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline iMav

  • geekhack creator/founder
  • Location: Valley City, ND
  • "Τα εργαλεία σας είναι σημαντικά."
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 22:10:34 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;227086
To tell you guys the truth, the ideal keyboard for me would just be a run-of-the-mill Model M. I'm happy with the layout and love the feel of the buckling springs.


Have you typed on a Model F?

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #94 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 22:49:38 »
Quote from: iMav;227143
Have you typed on a Model F?
I've used both kinds of original IBM keyboard, working with the PC and the AT. The Model M keyboard, with its layout putting both Shift keys, the Enter key, and the Backspace key, in the locations I was used to from a typewriter was a breath of fresh air.

I'd love it if I could get a Model F keyboard - or, better yet, a beam spring keyboard - with a Model M layout.

But failing that, the Model F keyboards that are available lose more for me in layout than they gain in tactility.

Offline NamelessPFG

  • Posts: 373
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #95 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 23:33:19 »
Take a Maltron, split it into three modules (left hand, right hand, center numpad), refit it with buckling-spring keyswitches, and have full N-key rollover on all of them if possible.

The split keyboard with buckling switches aspect is the most important, and while I know one exists, that's far too expensive for me to even consider. It has to be a split keyboard because I feel the usual combined keyboard approach is limiting my possibilities in setting up an ergonomic desktop space with as little required relocation of input devices as possible. (Trying to set up a simpit that works equally well for normal computing and KB+M gaming is proving to be a pain.)

Offline Daniel Beaver

  • Posts: 504
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:35:49 »
My ideal layout would be compact, with a non-staggered key matrix. A few keys have been re-arranged into location I think are more sensible (for example, the apostrophe and enter key position are swapped, and backspace one row down). Arrow keys and home cluster keys are integrated into the right side of the keyboard. I have never actually tried non-staggered keys, but it seems like it would be a better way of doing things. The current key staggering is just a throwback to typewriters, after all.




Color, for highlighting:



The pictured layout is QWERTY, but keycaps could be re-arranged if an alternate layout was desired. The firmware would be modifiable, allowing you to use a custom layout on whatever computer you plug it into. A dip switch on the back would allow you to swap between two or more custom layouts.

In addition to the layout above, a matching number pad would be sold separately for data entry purposes.

Ideally, one would be able to choose from a multitude of different switches. If I were to manufacture these, Cherry switches would be the most logical choice. But since this is magical la-la land, I would want capacitive buckling spring switches, or beam spring switches. Regular buckling springs with slightly weaker springs (actuating at about 60g) would also work well.

Keys should be double-shot, naturally. AltGr symbols should be dye sublimated. Pad printing would just ruin the aesthetics of the keyboard after it wears off. Extra keys with tactile nubs would be included for Dvorak and colemak users (as well as F and J keys without those nubs). An extra Caps lock key would be included (in case the weird Ctrl location was not appreciated), along with Windows, Mac and Linux meta keys.

An integrated trackpoint would be a sweet addition, especially if a slim form-factor was pursued. The micro switches for the mouse buttons ought to be very nice, as well.

The back of the keyboard would sport a Type B USB port, as well as a PS/2 port, so that either cable could be detatched, and you wouldn't have to fiddle around with a USB-to-PS/2 dongle. Two standard USB ports would also be included, so the keyboard could act as a hub.

An internal bluetooth radio would allow wireless usage, if desired. AA batteries would provide power, for convenience sake. A lithium battery will eventually die out, and might be unreplaceable ten years down the road. I like bluetooth, since all my computers have it, but a wireless dongle would probably be a more sensible solution for most people.


...


Damn, I really want a miniguru now. But that's just as much vaporware is this.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:43:48 by Daniel Beaver »

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
Work: Topre Realforce 87B  /  Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #97 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 03:44:25 »
for last ergonomic adjustments the experimental test
phase of my ideal keyboard is still running..



(It is rumored that normal keyboard layouts and qwerty user are outdated.. :becky:)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #98 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 04:43:17 »
here the basic layout (Colemak) that i use on the prototype above..

Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline squarebox

  • Posts: 608
  • Location: Singapore
  • In Omnia Paratus
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #99 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 10:45:13 »
The perfect full size keyboard to me
In Brown Cherry MX

Filco Yellow Edition  | Filco Brown | Filco 2 Brown TKL | G80-1950 | G80-3494 | G80-11900 | Leopold FC500R | Noppoo Choc Mini

Offline vicz

  • Posts: 32
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #100 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 16:17:31 »
Quote from: JBert;226910
The problem is that while vi may well do without all those extra keys, it's all those other programs out there that rely on them.


True. This is one of the reasons why the HHKB is not entirely satisfactory to me. I don't need arrows and function keys that often (vim, bash and Firefox are where I spend most of my time, and there are vi modes for bash and Firefox), but there are some programs where arrow and function keys are often used, and I don't want to keep a finger on the "Fn" key. If I enjoyed holding down modifier keys all the time, I'd use Emacs.

Offline hasu

  • Posts: 3474
  • Location: Tokyo, Japan
  • @tmk
    • tmk keyboard firmware project
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #101 on: Fri, 26 November 2010, 09:03:21 »
noctua,
nice keyboard and trackball setup!
Is there more photos and writeup about your keyboard anywhere?

I am planning to build my keyboard with cherry switches and AVR as a controller. Designing PCB with kicad will be my first step now.


Quote from: noctua;227178
for last ergonomic adjustments the experimental test
phase of my ideal keyboard is still running..

Show Image


(It is rumored that normal keyboard layouts and qwerty user are outdated.. :becky:)

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #102 on: Fri, 26 November 2010, 15:24:37 »
For the moment it's not final finished, the integration of the trackball in the centrum is fiddly..
it will be a tight squeeze. It is an compact design and i don't want it to "overload" because
the thumb and the index finger has already enough to do..

I use this board now since 6 months, and i have totally forgotten my shiny
commercial keyboard ;-)

You may be suprised but i have used an plain eding-pen before i have
etched the PCB.. after an second or third review i will use of course
an more professional method..
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline hasu

  • Posts: 3474
  • Location: Tokyo, Japan
  • @tmk
    • tmk keyboard firmware project
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #103 on: Fri, 26 November 2010, 21:46:27 »
Thanks, noctua.
I hope you finish it and get your ideal keyboard finally.