Author Topic: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards  (Read 58164 times)

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Offline jdcarpe

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JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« on: Wed, 10 September 2014, 14:40:00 »
Coming soon from Carpe Keyboards...


THE JD45 KEYBOARD




























Stay tuned to this thread for more info!
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 February 2016, 23:37:54 by jdcarpe »

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 09:57:14 »
THE JD45 KEYBOARD LAYOUT



(all the options below the main section are bottom row options)


Red = not compatible with Alps switch
Amber = suboptimal Alps support (pad isn't pretty but it will work)
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 March 2015, 09:59:07 by jdcarpe »

Offline absyrd

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 09:58:55 »
Where are you on this already? Just design phase? Direct-wiring one up? Or does "coming soon" mean you will actually be producing a batch in the near future?
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 09:59:20 »
I don't like JD anymore. He comes out with too much cool stuff and my wallet isn't happy. Can you please slow down with all the awesome? Space it out for us who aren't #legitballin?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 10:01:39 »
Where are you on this already? Just design phase? Direct-wiring one up? Or does "coming soon" mean you will actually be producing a batch in the near future?

It's just the design phase right now. Since I don't know KiCAD, I need to work with someone to help with the PCB.

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 10:09:01 »
saw this on the twitter sign me up :P

Offline SL89

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 10:22:45 »
JD is there any way this could be symmetrical?

For me having 2 1.75 units would make the most sense to have the left one be Backspace and the right one the Spacebar.

So if BS is down there have a left shift, a right shift at 1.75 as well

above that Capslock / Ctrl and Enter at 1.50 and so on.

Idk why but i am having a hard time articulating this. Let me see if i can just show you what i mean.

Offline abjr

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 10:51:35 »
Okay, opening for comments. :)


Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25


I think I might like a bigger target for my thumbs ... what about the following option:

1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.75 - 2.75 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25

Also, I like how the right side of row 3 ends in 1u - 1.25u, rather than the 1.25u - 1u of the JD40. I'm trying to concoct some method in my head where I can reverse those 2 keys on my SmallFry by doing some surgery on the keycap mounts :)
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Offline margo baggins

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 10:55:01 »
That's very cool bro!

When I finish building all the JD40's, Im going to knuckle down with Kicad and get it learnt , but that will likely miss this project. But once I have, you can reclaim those favours :D
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 11:08:16 »
Okay, opening for comments. :)


Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25


I think I might like a bigger target for my thumbs ... what about the following option:

1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.75 - 2.75 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25

Also, I like how the right side of row 3 ends in 1u - 1.25u, rather than the 1.25u - 1u of the JD40. I'm trying to concoct some method in my head where I can reverse those 2 keys on my SmallFry by doing some surgery on the keycap mounts :)

I could include that, theoretically, but I was trying to keep it stabilizer-free. :)

Offline abjr

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 11:48:00 »
Okay, opening for comments. :)


Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25


I think I might like a bigger target for my thumbs ... what about the following option:

1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 2.75 - 2.75 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25

Also, I like how the right side of row 3 ends in 1u - 1.25u, rather than the 1.25u - 1u of the JD40. I'm trying to concoct some method in my head where I can reverse those 2 keys on my SmallFry by doing some surgery on the keycap mounts :)

I could include that, theoretically, but I was trying to keep it stabilizer-free. :)

I guess if I were paying more attention I would have seen that's what you were going for. Ignore me :)
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Offline byker

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 13 September 2014, 13:17:29 »
Very cool JD!  ;D

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 15 September 2014, 04:07:06 »
BadAss is right.  You need to stop coming out with such cool stuff.  I already want one.

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 15 September 2014, 16:05:21 »
So, JD & I have PM'd about this, since I occasionally deal with a shop with a giant laser ... My own self, I'd like to see a "GON Skinny" case made of the plate. Its small enough to extend to the left/right, bend twice, and you've got 'feet' to hold it up. 304 stainless would be strong enough but if you wanted aluminum, you might extend the top and bottom...More 'foot' to solder around when it gets that far but so long as you have the cutouts you probably only have to deal with it once.

How tall are those "legs" ... one inch? That'd be enough to clear the PCB and teensy-with-pin-plastics, right?

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Offline Tiramisuu

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 15 September 2014, 19:11:09 »
Hmm,

try...

 unsplit the space bar.   Make the first row keys equal size so I can have an alt, ctrl, fn on both sides of the space bar and I'm sold.
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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 15 September 2014, 19:47:14 »
No way.  I love the split spacebar.  No stabs to deal with and this gives us an extra modifier key we can program to whatever we want/need.  I'm honestly hoping more boards go down this route in the future.  Most of us only hit the spacebar in a fairly controlled space/area, anyways. 

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 15 September 2014, 19:53:42 »
Hmm,

try...

 unsplit the space bar.   Make the first row keys equal size so I can have an alt, ctrl, fn on both sides of the space bar and I'm sold.



No way.  I love the split spacebar.  No stabs to deal with and this gives us an extra modifier key we can program to whatever we want/need.  I'm honestly hoping more boards go down this route in the future.  Most of us only hit the spacebar in a fairly controlled space/area, anyways. 

Yeah, spacebar is staying split on this one. If you want a long spacebar, there's always the JD40. :)

If you want, you can configure the bottom row as 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-[space]-[space]-1.25-1.25-1.25-1, so you have 3.5-unit for your spacebar(s), and plenty of symmetry to work with on both sides.

Offline futaris

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 03:23:07 »
47 Keys. Looks good.  If you don't split the spacebar and throw away another key, then you get 45. :)

I like the bottom row ending in 1.25-1-1.25, and the row above it ending in 1-1.25. Means you can have arrow keys in the bottom right.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 06:35:45 »
I like the bottom row ending in 1.25-1-1.25, and the row above it ending in 1-1.25. Means you can have arrow keys in the bottom right.

Yes that was my intention, and the reason that is the "default" layout shown in the mockup. :)

Offline futaris

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 27 September 2014, 21:47:48 »
It's not far off a Filco Minila with a row and a column removed.

But on that board, they moved the ZXCV row 0.25" left.

Offline tyvar1

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 04:11:38 »
This looks really good! Looking forward to seeing the results :)

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 17 October 2014, 00:31:29 »
This board looks great JD!

I love these small boards.  ;D

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Offline byker

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 17 October 2014, 00:34:54 »
How can you tease us before my smallfry board even arrives?  :p From one thing to the next!

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 17 October 2014, 03:53:16 »
Another interesting looking board from the house of JDCarpe! Did you get a PCB designer signed up for this yet?

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 08:34:04 »
I'm very interested in this. For the same reason we don't include the F# (function row) on 60% keyboards I also prefer not to use the number row on keyboards when I can have a virtual numpad on a function layer.

The only comment I would have is that my thumb usually rests on the spacebar between where the third and fourth keys on the homerow would be (D and F) so on your layout my thumb wouldn't reach the 1.75 keys, but the keys one spot outwards towards the edges of the board from them.

If you could have a variation of the bottom row where the 1.75 keys could be moved slightly outwards it would be wonderful. If not I could just use the 1.25 keys as spacebar/backspace though so it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.
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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 08:40:44 »
I only have one question: Alps?

(Please say no so my wife won't murder me in my sleep)

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 09:35:38 »
I'll try to knock out an MX/Alps PCB later today.  May I add an optional spacebar position?

Where should CAPS, NUM and FN be?

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« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 09:38:01 by samwisekoi »
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Offline MOZ

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 09:57:48 »
Ron, our hero.

I'd make the PCB, but I always get stuck at the controller, so many tracks, such little space.

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 09:59:22 »
Ron, our hero.

I'd make the PCB, but I always get stuck at the controller, so many tracks, such little space.
at least you hero for syml :))
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:16:42 by yasuo »
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:31:12 »
Here you go.  Full backlighting, a centered spacebar position,  and an alternate 2x backspace key included.

Oh, Cherry MX and Alps-compatible as promised.

I'll run the Teensy under R2C12-13 once the layout is final.  (Assuming JD likes it, etc.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

[edit]

Fixed the bottom row so a 6.25 can actually fit between the other keys.

[/edit]
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:49:41 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:32:12 »
Here you go.  Full backlighting, a centered spacebar position,  and an alternate 2x backspace key included.

Oh, Cherry MX and Alps-compatible as promised.

I'll run the Teensy under R2C12-13 once the layout is final.  (Assuming JD likes it, etc.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:35:45 »
I'll try to knock out an MX/Alps PCB later today.  May I add an optional spacebar position?

Where should CAPS, NUM and FN be?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Awesome, thanks, Ron! You can add whatever spacebar positions you feel would be useful. I usually assign Caps Lock to a function layer on the 1.25 key on the second row. Fn I usually put on the bottom row somewhere, and Num Lock as a fn layer on Esc. :)

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:37:03 »
Here you go.  Full backlighting, a centered spacebar position,  and an alternate 2x backspace key included.

Oh, Cherry MX and Alps-compatible as promised.

I'll run the Teensy under R2C12-13 once the layout is final.  (Assuming JD likes it, etc.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
so fast and simply
btw what software you make pcb i never see pcb like that's look easy :))
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:40:06 by yasuo »
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:41:07 »
That looks great, Ron! I don't know how hard it would be to include bottom row options for the following:

Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:43:57 »
Needs more bluetooth :D ;)

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:50:47 »
Needs more bluetooth :D ;)
get korean40% sir
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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 10:57:11 »
Needs more bluetooth :D ;)
get korean40% sir

It is very nice but that price is out of my range at the moment.

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 11:32:21 »
That looks great, Ron! I don't know how hard it would be to include bottom row options for the following:

Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25

Sorry, I missed that.  I'll see what I can do.

I'd also like to squeeze in an arrow cluster option like the TG3.  Of course that is a 15x6 board, so it will be harder to accomplish.

Question:  Did you look at a 12.5 x 4 size? It eliminates unobtainable keycaps without expanding the matrix vs. a JD40.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[edit]

Attached is a 12.5 x 4 PCB I drew up a month or so ago as an exercise.

[/edit]
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 11:40:41 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 11:45:26 »
That looks great, Ron! I don't know how hard it would be to include bottom row options for the following:

Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25

Sorry, I missed that.  I'll see what I can do.

I'd also like to squeeze in an arrow cluster option like the TG3.  Of course that is a 15x6 board, so it will be harder to accomplish.

Question:  Did you look at a 12.5 x 4 size? It eliminates unobtainable keycaps without expanding the matrix vs. a JD40.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Yes, I looked at doing it that way, but I didn't like the lack of symmetry I came up with for some reason.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 18:02:33 »
Also, the bottom row should have options. So you could use either:

* 1.25-1-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1-1.25
* 1-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1.25-1.25-1
* 1.25-1.25-1.25-1-1.75-1.75-1-1.25-1.25-1.25
* 1.25-1.25-1-1.25-1.75-1.75-1.25-1-1.25-1.25

Ok, the bottom row can have all four of those options, which are really having the 1x key in position 1, 2, 3, or 4.  However, Alps switches are not designed for optional placements, so Alps users can have only one, possibly two of the four options.  For sure I could give MX users all four choices, but Alps users would be limited to the 1x on the outside positions and possibly also the second-to-outside positions.

A. 1 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.75 - 1.75 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1 (MX and Alps)
B. 1.25 - 1 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.75 - 1.75 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1 - 1.25 (MX and possibly Alps)
C. 1.25 - 1.25 - 1 - 1.25 - 1.75 - 1.75 - 1.25 - 1 - 1.25 - 1.25 (MX only)
D. 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1 - 1.75 - 1.75 - 1 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 (MX only)

Attached is a rough layout of the bottom row with all four options for both switch types.  1/3 of the bottom row has shorts, so no go.

JD and Alps-users, please advise on the constrained option I propose above.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 18:04:35 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 12:08:27 »
Further work on the bottom row has occurred.  I can make everything work EXCEPT bi-lateral symmetry for Alps.  There is no combination of switch positions that enable Alps switches to be mirrored on the bottom row without impacting the 4-way MX options.

I can do non-mirrored symmetry for Alps switches, e.g.

1 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.75 - 1.75 - 1 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25.

Should I make using Alps switches possible, but not optimal?

JD's or Alps-fan's input would be helpful here.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 12:38:07 »
Yes, what you have for Alps would be fine. Our primary focus should be the availability of options for MX switches, with compatibility for Alps as important, but secondary.

Having only one bottom row option for Alps will simplify plate design for Alps, since Alps are dependent on the plate, where MX can be PCB mounted.

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 13:04:30 »
Yes, what you have for Alps would be fine. Our primary focus should be the availability of options for MX switches, with compatibility for Alps as important, but secondary.

Having only one bottom row option for Alps will simplify plate design for Alps, since Alps are dependent on the plate, where MX can be PCB mounted.

Gotcha,  Here is what I did.

#1 Added Alps pads on every bottom row switch position where they would fit without impacting the MX layouts.  See attachment #1.

#2 Added a central MX switch position to enable use of a 6x spacebar if desired.  Or not, of course.  See attachment #2 for an example.

If this looks good, I'll attach the Teensy and run traces.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 October 2014, 13:06:11 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 13:26:59 »
Looks like a winner to me. :D

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 14:38:44 »
Yes, what you have for Alps would be fine. Our primary focus should be the availability of options for MX switches, with compatibility for Alps as important, but secondary.

Having only one bottom row option for Alps will simplify plate design for Alps, since Alps are dependent on the plate, where MX can be PCB mounted.

I tossed around the idea in another thread for doing hybrid Cherry/Alps PCB - but keeping all the stabilized keys as Cherry MX only and all 1x1 Alps.

It is relatively easy to fill in all the 1x1's with DoubleShots/PBT's from old Alps boards and much easier sourcing stabilizer compatible MX caps.

In my case I'd do everything with Matias Quiet Pro switches except the space bar which would be MX Tactile Gray, and O-Ring MX Clears on Shifts/Enter/BackSpace.

A bit crazy but if you are a flexible person it will make the Engineers life a lot easier :)

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 14:41:52 »
Yes, what you have for Alps would be fine. Our primary focus should be the availability of options for MX switches, with compatibility for Alps as important, but secondary.

Having only one bottom row option for Alps will simplify plate design for Alps, since Alps are dependent on the plate, where MX can be PCB mounted.

I tossed around the idea in another thread for doing hybrid Cherry/Alps PCB - but keeping all the stabilized keys as Cherry MX only and all 1x1 Alps.

It is relatively easy to fill in all the 1x1's with DoubleShots/PBT's from old Alps boards and much easier sourcing stabilizer compatible MX caps.

In my case I'd do everything with Matias Quiet Pro switches except the space bar which would be MX Tactile Gray, and O-Ring MX Clears on Shifts/Enter/BackSpace.

A bit crazy but if you are a flexible person it will make the Engineers life a lot easier :)

You will be able to do exactly what you propose with this PCB.  Also with the GH-122.

Looks like a winner to me. :D

Ok, I'll take next steps.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline MOZ

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 16:24:59 »
Looks real good Ron. Some pointers on how you go about deciding the position fro the Teensy and then running those tracks would be immensely helpful.

Thanks.

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 20 October 2014, 11:33:02 »
Looks real good Ron. Some pointers on how you go about deciding the position fro the Teensy and then running those tracks would be immensely helpful.

Thanks.

Ok; I'll try.  This is not completely set in stone, but here are the steps I used to get to the incomplete layout attached.  (OBTW, The latest layout is attached.)

PHASE ONE: THE SWITCH LAYOUT:


1. Start with a switch footprint in a .75x.75" outer boundary, and an inner .55x.55' boundary marked as well.
2. Place a diode and a resistor between the inner and outer perimeter.
3. Add row and column traces (and LED signal and ground traces, if applicable), and run them to the edge of the outer boundary.
4. Replicate the initial cell into a short row to see how it fits together.  Return to Step 2 until they fit together properly.
5. Take another switch foot print (as used in Step 1) and place it anywhere in the test row to find problems.  Return to Step 2 until there are no problems.
6. Take PCB-mount stabilizer patterns and place them in the test row to find problems.  Return to Step 2 until there are no problems.
7. Take the resulting product of the iteration process, and use it as a base cell for PCB layout.
  NOTE:  Sometimes the resulting base cell contains two switches.  This is typically the case when there are multiple places with optional 2x switch positions, like a numpad area.

8. Carefully lay out the first row of switch positions.  Check for problems, and probably go all the way back to Step 2.
9. Lay out the rest of the rows EXCEPT THE BOTTOM ROW.  Check for problems, and possibly go all the way back to Step 2.
10. Lay out the bottom row.  Check carefully for shorts and pads inside of holes.  Avoid stabilizer keep-away zones.
11. Publish the draft layout to get member feedback.  Iterate Steps 8-11 as needed until consensus or approval is obtained.
12. Publish the "final" switch layout and announce that no more input will be welcomed EXCEPT problems identified with the layout.

Now you have the board, populated by switch cells and extra mounting positions.

PHASE TWO: BASELINE TRACES AND CONTROLLER:


1. Connect the row, column, and LED traces where stagger has left gaps.  Do this carefully to avoid shorts and gaps.
2. Identify any peculiarities with the matrix, and adjust the rows and columns to fix this problem.

EXAMPLE:  On the JD45, the upper-right switch is physically in Row 1, Column 13.  But it would be the only switch in Column 13, which would be a waste of a pin.  So, In this case, I ended Row 1 with Column 12, and re-assigned physical R1C13 to electrical Row 4, Column 12. This is a slight hassle in layout and firmware, but it means that the PCB remains electrically a 12x4 grid, which will reduce pin count and possibly allow re-use of the JD40 firmware.


3. Find a place where the Teensy will fit around the switch positions.  Avoid as many passives as possible, as they will be buried.  Also, take care to avoid blocking traces from switch pads that can't be moved.  On this layout, that meant ensuring that Teensy pins B3, B7, and D0 are offset to allow the LED leads for switch 2,12 to escape between the Teensy's pads.

  NOTE: Don't forget to mirror the Teensy so it is in the proper orientation on the opposite side of the PCB from the switches!

This step requires trial and error, and typically I get it wrong for the first few passes.  Also, it may need to be moved once I try to connect row, column, and LED traces.

I try to keep the Teensy as far up the PCB as I can, to go with the natural slope of the keyboard.  A surface-mount controller can fit under the spacebar or over the arrow-cluster, but not so much the Teensy, unless you are willing to have a very tall keyboard.  For the JD45, I placed it over switch 2,12 because that position had the fewest components in the way.

Next up:

PHASE THREE: SIGNAL TRACES

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

« Last Edit: Mon, 20 October 2014, 11:36:33 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline MOZ

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 20 October 2014, 11:56:01 »
Thanks Ron, I'm well-versed with everything that has been mentioned thus far (Thanks to regack <3), but in all my attempts, I get stuck after placing the Teensy or the controller circuit under the spacebar, then routing the signal traces, specially with the SMT controller and it's associated components.

I think I just need to practice more :/

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Re: JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 20 October 2014, 12:42:42 »
Thanks Ron, I'm well-versed with everything that has been mentioned thus far (Thanks to regack <3), but in all my attempts, I get stuck after placing the Teensy or the controller circuit under the spacebar, then routing the signal traces, specially with the SMT controller and it's associated components.

I think I just need to practice more :/

I'll finish the process flow as I finish the layout.  Next up will be the steps you wonder about.

And for me, practicing at increasing scale is key.  First I did the GH LED strip PCB.  Then came the GH36.  Now the JD45 just for practice.  Soon the GH-122/153, which will be the ultimate keyboard PCB.

I do a lot of exercises as well.  PCB layouts that never go anywhere.  Experiments with controller traces.  Sometimes I just take a controller and make traces from the controller out to stub traces.  This lets me try different paths and combinations.

Anyhow, yes.  Practice layouts, and try to get some of them printed so you get real-world experience with how your designs turn out when you try to solder them up.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case