Author Topic: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.  (Read 2396 times)

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Offline Djengiss

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Brand new to the mech keyboard enthusiast market.

First of all, my budget is around $400 (excluding keycaps)

I'm looking for a new board. I currently have the Vortex Pok3r, but want something with USB-C and preferably 65% for the arrow keys. However, I'm very specific with what I want, and have trouble finding anything that suits my needs.

USB-C connector

ISO layout

60-65% form factor

As little frame visible from the top as possible (Thin bezels)

Bright RGB back-light (preferably)

Hotswappable switches (Or any good silent tactile switches)

I'm down for a custom keyboard if it's possible in my price range, and I'm comfortable soldering if anything that fits all my wants requires it.

I've been looking at the Keychron K6, but hear people have had trouble with the caps lock being unresponsive, and general Bluetooth problems. I've been looking at the GMMK pro, but not a fan of the 75% form factor. I've been looking at the Ducky One 2 Sf and ducky miya, but don't like the empty space near the arrow keys.

On top of that I think all three of those look kind of "cheap" in quality.

I'm crossing my fingers that someone has some recommendations!

Offline Djengiss

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 03:19:33 »
Doesn't seem like I'm finding this, tried multiple times on reddit aswell.

If anyone can point me in the direction of custom 65% kits with ISO layout and USB-C connector, available in Europe I'd appreciate it. Any blue, white or rgb back-light and preferably with hot swap PCB.

If that doesn't exist I'd appreciate some help in purchasing the parts separately.

Looked at the Ikki68, but that doesn't seem to be available anymore?

Offline yui

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 04:00:43 »
As i never really cared much for hotswap the only i know that could fit your bill is not really a kit but the GMMK 60%, if you remove the hot-swap and USB-C though the XD60 kits should serve you nicely, or with usb-C but no backlight and Doddle60 would work but you need to find friends to buy some of them, as i doubt Gondolindrim would make only one for you, and if you want hotswap i doubt you'd be willing to solder all those SMD by hand.
hope this helps
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Offline foxieze

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 05:37:19 »
The HS60 PCB might suit your needs. Not sure whether it's shipped to Europe, but they are UK based so it should be fine. You can take a look at it with the link below, but it has USB-C, Hotswap and RGB.

https://mechboards.co.uk/shop/parts/hs60-hotswap-pcb/

Offline Djengiss

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 06:26:37 »
The HS60 PCB might suit your needs. Not sure whether it's shipped to Europe, but they are UK based so it should be fine. You can take a look at it with the link below, but it has USB-C, Hotswap and RGB.

https://mechboards.co.uk/shop/parts/hs60-hotswap-pcb/

Yup, does in fact ship to me, it's really expensive in taxes after they left the EU though, so I'll be looking for it elsewhere. It is exactly what I'm looking for, so thank you!

Offline Djengiss

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 06:28:25 »
As i never really cared much for hotswap the only i know that could fit your bill is not really a kit but the GMMK 60%, if you remove the hot-swap and USB-C though the XD60 kits should serve you nicely, or with usb-C but no backlight and Doddle60 would work but you need to find friends to buy some of them, as i doubt Gondolindrim would make only one for you, and if you want hotswap i doubt you'd be willing to solder all those SMD by hand.
hope this helps

Thank you for the tips, I'll be looking into some of these PCB's aswell. Don't mind soldering, just wanted hotswap for easier installation :)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 10:01:47 »
At any point in time, that's just what you THINK you want,  it's not what you want or the most suitable.

Assuming such a thing even exists, it's going to happen very far down the line, maybe your 30'th 40'th keyboard.

At this point, you want to get something cheap, $25-40 to play with for a year, achieve 125wpm+,  THEN go back and reassess.

It's like asking a first year piano student what piano he likes, he'll have an uncultured unsophisticated answer, and it is almost certainly going to be different only a few months down the line.

Offline foxieze

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:09:59 »
At any point in time, that's just what you THINK you want,  it's not what you want or the most suitable.

Assuming such a thing even exists, it's going to happen very far down the line, maybe your 30'th 40'th keyboard.

At this point, you want to get something cheap, $25-40 to play with for a year, achieve 125wpm+,  THEN go back and reassess.

It's like asking a first year piano student what piano he likes, he'll have an uncultured unsophisticated answer, and it is almost certainly going to be different only a few months down the line.


definitely agree with this, however i'd probably go with something a bit pricier than $25 - $40, and go with something that gives you better quality. for that sort of price, i don't expect you will be able to get any good quality mechanical keyboards for that.

The HS60 PCB might suit your needs. Not sure whether it's shipped to Europe, but they are UK based so it should be fine. You can take a look at it with the link below, but it has USB-C, Hotswap and RGB.

https://mechboards.co.uk/shop/parts/hs60-hotswap-pcb/

Yup, does in fact ship to me, it's really expensive in taxes after they left the EU though, so I'll be looking for it elsewhere. It is exactly what I'm looking for, so thank you!

If taxes in shipping are a problem, it might be worth checking out the DZ60. It's less commonly stocked (probably because it is bought a lot) so it might be harder to find, but it's more likely to be sold by an EU vendor.


Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 2164
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 11:42:57 »
At any point in time, that's just what you THINK you want,  it's not what you want or the most suitable.

Assuming such a thing even exists, it's going to happen very far down the line, maybe your 30'th 40'th keyboard.

At this point, you want to get something cheap, $25-40 to play with for a year, achieve 125wpm+,  THEN go back and reassess.

It's like asking a first year piano student what piano he likes, he'll have an uncultured unsophisticated answer, and it is almost certainly going to be different only a few months down the line.


definitely agree with this, however i'd probably go with something a bit pricier than $25 - $40, and go with something that gives you better quality. for that sort of price, i don't expect you will be able to get any good quality mechanical keyboards for that.

What's your definition of quality? I would rather have a $30-40 Chinesium Amazon board with Outemu blues in it than anything with MX. Everything else Outemu makes is scratchier, but that's just Outemu. I haven't had any functional problems with cheap mechanical boards, which is where objective measures of quality end and the subjective begins.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 16:53:48 »
USB-C connector
ISO layout
60-65% form factor
As little frame visible from the top as possible (Thin bezels)
Bright RGB back-light (preferably)
Hotswappable switches (Or any good silent tactile switches)
A few of your requests are problematic and that's why you can't find anything, hopefully with some adjustment you can find something.

ISO and hotswap - hotswap locks a layout to a pcb and companies are still caught up targeting the ANSI market before they order alternate pcbs for smaller markets. This will likely change in the future but for now, your options are limited. Mass produced keyboards take quite a bit of investment and as such are slow to change.

Type C - same as above, it's new enough that many places haven't yet updated their manufacturing. It's an expensive change to make from a manufacturing perspective and frankly, most people just don't care that much about it. Opening yourself up to other ports can widen your options.
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 09:07:18 »
Type C - same as above, it's new enough that many places haven't yet updated their manufacturing. It's an expensive change to make from a manufacturing perspective and frankly, most people just don't care that much about it. Opening yourself up to other ports can widen your options.

I can't even count how many type c jacks and cables have been destroyed in this school district since both the Chromebooks and Windows-based systems started incorporating them. It is a miracle that Dell's replaced any of them under warranty. Dell's sandwiched the port against the PCB with a sturdy metal plate (on the Chromebooks, which use type c to charge), but that hasn't stopped them from being yanked from side to side horizontally, and the tiny little pins must be breaking before the pad is even damaged (although I haven't tested any for continuity). You can also force the connector into the jack at odd angles relatively easily, so I have seen plenty with half of the pins bent back into the jack and/or ripped off as well.

I have 4 Chromebooks to call in since the last time I contacted Dell for warranty repair, 3 of them have power issues related to their type c jacks. The best part is that Dell no longer uses breakout boards for power in their Chromebooks either.

I knew this was coming the moment I heard they were going to try to use this nonsense for charging computers.

I still seek out mini USB whenever possible. Type c seems better than micro to me ... but neither inspire confidence.

Ever since you recommended those Netdot magnetic cables I have been using them with every compatible peripheral. I don't think I would use anything type c without that setup.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 18:44:39 »
I knew this was coming the moment I heard they were going to try to use this nonsense for charging computers.

Ever since you recommended those Netdot magnetic cables I have been using them with every compatible peripheral. I don't think I would use anything type c without that setup.
Awesome!
I got rid of my gen3s and went all gen10 so I could convert pretty much everything (gen 3 was micro only). I would say I have them all over at this point but the thing that took a while to dawn on me was that I was using fewer cords than before. No longer did I need 5 cords on my desk (mini, 2x micro, C, Lightning) to run or charge 8 things, I only needed 1 with an occasional second.

That has been a concern of mine the moment I saw USB charging on laptops, Apple in particular, they went from Magsafe to type C of all things, from one extreme to the other, not that some of the Chromebook chargers were any better than Type C connectors. Dell is notorious for mounting charging ports to the mainboard as is HP but Dell is worse in that they love using proprietary connectors and ram. They know how to do it right, they can afford to do things right and yet they just refuse to do so.
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More
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline Maledicted

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 10:49:10 »
I knew this was coming the moment I heard they were going to try to use this nonsense for charging computers.

Ever since you recommended those Netdot magnetic cables I have been using them with every compatible peripheral. I don't think I would use anything type c without that setup.
Awesome!
I got rid of my gen3s and went all gen10 so I could convert pretty much everything (gen 3 was micro only). I would say I have them all over at this point but the thing that took a while to dawn on me was that I was using fewer cords than before. No longer did I need 5 cords on my desk (mini, 2x micro, C, Lightning) to run or charge 8 things, I only needed 1 with an occasional second.

The value of that can't be overstated. My problem is I have a lot of keyboards that have non-removable cables or use mini USB anyway.

That has been a concern of mine the moment I saw USB charging on laptops, Apple in particular, they went from Magsafe to type C of all things, from one extreme to the other, not that some of the Chromebook chargers were any better than Type C connectors. Dell is notorious for mounting charging ports to the mainboard as is HP but Dell is worse in that they love using proprietary connectors and ram. They know how to do it right, they can afford to do things right and yet they just refuse to do so.

I haven't followed Magsafe in some years. I have fixed 3 or 4 of their older Magsafe chargers for people because the stress relief practically didn't exist, combined with the fact that the block was literally designed for you to tightly wrap the cable around some hooks ... asking for fraying and shorting. Did they eventually, finally, do it right before throwing it all out the window for type c?

I don't know what Dell has been selling in the consumer space, but all of our "student" Chromebooks up to (and not including) the 3100 model have had replaceable DC jacks that were mounted to the case. The Chromebook 11 3120 and 3180 models were like this. I think the original Chromebook 11 was as well, but it has been some time since I have seen inside one. We had very few of that model. They also all still used the relatively common Dell/HP barrel connector that they've used on most of their business class systems for the last 20-or-so years.

Our 3390 2-in-1 Windows-based systems seem to be far from "business class" to me, but they do at least still have a replaceable barrel type DC jack ... although it is smaller, probably because people are obsessed with paper thin laptops. They do have a type c jack as well though, which is used for their port replicators (I really don't think we can call them docks anymore). These are soldered directly to the PCB ... and are the most likely thing to be damaged in use. The screen housings literally twist just opening and closing the lid from one side or the other, and the bezels can start popping off as well in the process. They're made out of some surprisingly thin and brittle plastic too ... less rugged than our cheap Chromebooks.

What's a case of Dell using proprietary RAM, other than not using DIMMs? I think I recall Dell using proprietary power supply connectors and/or wiring and front IO wiring in the mid 2000s. I know even a lot of their XPS systems did that nonsense. It seems to me almost like HP and Dell flip flop in that regard though. The HP 8300 towers use power supplies that don't even use the standard standby voltage, much less an ATX connector, and ATX power supplies can't even mount in the case without some dremeling. I have some business class Dells from the same period that seem to be 100% standard. I forget the model.

I would still take HP or Acer over almost anything else when given a choice myself.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 16:03:02 »
vega
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This is the cat and pat!!!!!!!!

Offline Leslieann

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 18:40:39 »
I haven't followed Magsafe in some years. I have fixed 3 or 4 of their older Magsafe chargers for people because the stress relief practically didn't exist, combined with the fact that the block was literally designed for you to tightly wrap the cable around some hooks ... asking for fraying and shorting. Did they eventually, finally, do it right before throwing it all out the window for type c?
Apple has never cared about strain relief on cords, this has been a constant problem with lightning cables.
Magsafe was great, the rest of the cord sucks.




What's a case of Dell using proprietary RAM, other than not using DIMMs?
Dell was still hard mounting jacks for some 8th gen cpus. Not sure about newer.
They did ditch the proprietary connector at some point and while the newer ones are standard jacks they're still not shared with any other brand. I have multiple universal chargers, guess what brand needs the most variety of connectors.


This was from a while back and I'm not sure if they still do this as I'm not seeing many Dells these days but for quite a long time if you used any ram other than their own in a desktop it would last a year before it simply burned up. Had whole offices up and die after a year with decent quality ram.

And yes there was also them playing with PSU wiring.
They just enjoy making it difficult.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: I feel like I can't find a keyboard to fit my very specific wants.
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 30 April 2021, 10:46:47 »
bakeneko?
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This is the cat and pat!!!!!!!!