Small keys and short travel distance

[bedrift]

Hi!

I'm looking for keyboard with small keys and therefore short travel distance between the keys.

I have small hands that aren't flexible so I can't touch type without moving a lot.
I've been typing on a ASUS keyboard (1.3cm wide letter keys) which is called "90% size of a laptopsized keyboard" and I love the key size, but the keys are too stiff for my taste, discomforting after many hours and fatiguing for pinkies. I guess if I find a hand separated and non-staggered layout, the more common 1.6cm wide keys would suffice.

In order of importance:
Looking for:
Small keys and therefore short travel distance between the keys
Separated hands (I have broad shoulders)
Quiet (plan to get o-rings and the most quiet switches, probably mx reds)

Hoping for:
Columnar or at least matrix layout, as opposed to staggered
Thumb keys
Cheap
Mechanical
"Soft" keys (doesn't require much force to push down)


From what I've read so far the thumb keys are easier to reach on the Kinesis Advantage than on Maltron and Ergodox.
I doubt that Typematrix 2030 is separating my hands enough.
If something similar to what Oobly or AcidFire are building were made with smaller keys I think that would be ideal.

I don't care how the keyboard is for gaming or backlighting as I won't use those things. I don't have any experience with soldering and I would rather not start now.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Getting all those in one keyboard will be difficult or impossible. Not because those are unreasonable, just because keyboards with even some of those are not common.

I haven't seen a keyboard with smaller keys except laptop-like keyboards that don't have any of the other features you're looking for.

I'm not sure how separated you are looking for, but keyboards with separated hands I know of: Kinesis Freestyle, Kinesis Advantage, Goldtouch, Goldtouch Go, Ergodox, TECK, Typematrix, Maltron. There are also a couple Microsoft keyboards and the Logitech Wave.

There are also some weirder designs like the Datahand and Alphagrip that don't resemble keyboards.

[yasuo]

I know just MTron has small keys but symmetrical and expensive

[Oobly]

I know just MTron has small keys but symmetrical and expensive

Good find, Yasuo!

Yes, the μTRON has smaller keys than normal, is a symmetrical stagger split board, uses Topre capacitive switches and has thumb buttons although they're on the same plane as the others. It's very expensive, though.

Another option may be a Kinesis contoured, since the curving of the keywells brings the tops of the keycaps closer together, so they're easier to reach.

You could also learn a more ergonomic character layout to reduce finger travel when typing. Most of the popular ones have the most often-used characters on the home row and you can type a lot of words with just home row keys.

Kurplop started a thread which is worth reading: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47787.0

In essence, the horizontal key spacing is not as much of an issue as the vertical spacing in many cases.

[bedrift]

Getting all those in one keyboard will be difficult or impossible. Not because those are unreasonable, just because keyboards with even some of those are not common.

I haven't seen a keyboard with smaller keys except laptop-like keyboards that don't have any of the other features you're looking for.

I'm not sure how separated you are looking for, but keyboards with separated hands I know of: Kinesis Freestyle, Kinesis Advantage, Goldtouch, Goldtouch Go, Ergodox, TECK, Typematrix, Maltron. There are also a couple Microsoft keyboards and the Logitech Wave.

There are also some weirder designs like the Datahand and Alphagrip that don't resemble keyboards.

Okay, thanks for your answers. Small keys and separated hands shouldn't be that hard to manufacture and sell, should it? Considering the lack of choices, the rest on the list is a bonus. I'm astonished by the lack of supply.

Datahand seems discontinued and Alphagrip writes text considerably slower than a regular keyboard.

Why don't keyboards come in sizes?

I know just MTron has small keys but symmetrical and expensive

Yeah, I consider $600 too expensive. http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

[bedrift]

Yes, the μTRON has smaller keys than normal, is a symmetrical stagger split board, uses Topre capacitive switches and has thumb buttons although they're on the same plane as the others. It's very expensive, though.

Another option may be a Kinesis contoured, since the curving of the keywells brings the tops of the keycaps closer together, so they're easier to reach.

Kurplop started a thread which is worth reading: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47787.0

In essence, the horizontal key spacing is not as much of an issue as the vertical spacing in many cases.

Cool thread, that's what I'm looking for. Are any of these projects planning to sell their creations at an affordable price?
I agree, vertical spacing is the worse issue, but reduced horizontal spacing would also be appreciated.

You could also learn a more ergonomic character layout to reduce finger travel when typing. Most of the popular ones have the most often-used characters on the home row and you can type a lot of words with just home row keys.

I plan to do this.

If the Kinesis contoured makes the keys considerably easier to reach than on TECK, that might be the most fitting unless some other alternative emerge. Unless I buckle in and get a staggered.

Two more eccentric roads to consider:
a) use one small laptop keyboard for each hand
b) remap the keys between my hands to keys I never use, therefore expanding the natural space between my hands.

[hoggy]

While you're looking, pick up a new cheap keyboard, doesn't really matter which one as you'll probably find it _much_ easier to press the keys (rubber domes seem to get stiffer with age/use).  You should be able to take your time finding a better replacement.

I think you'll just have to try a few designs before you find something that works for you - start with companies that will offer you a trial period - Kinesis for example.

[kurplop]

You will probably have to wait a long time for a quality mechanical keyboard to be manufactured with keys more tightly spaced than standard. The switches can be more tightly grouped but the keycaps would have to be custom sized; not an insurmountable problem but still substantial considering the likely limited market. Not that it isn't an important improvement but it is hard to convince people to change if they haven't already recognized the advantage of closer spacing. That is the problem with the marketing of ergonomic keyboards in general. Until people are introduced to ergo keyboards as children, when they don't need them, they will not likely want to adapt to them, or pay the premium price for them, when they do. With more young people being introduced to typing on tablets and phones, it seems the ergo tide is flowing in the wrong direction.

Still, your search is a worthy one. As you have read, I'm a real believer in tighter spacing. I have average sized man hands and probably wouldn't want the horizontal spacing much closer but there is .5 to 1 inch of vertical spacing that could be reduced in a keyboard without cramping the fingers of all but the largest hand. I think it would easily benefit 75% percent of men and 90% of women and the best thing is it would require almost no muscle memory retraining.

Given your preferences, I agree that the Kinesis is probably your best option. Decent spacing between halves, not cheap but not outrageously expensive, proven design, thumb clusters and the key wells do make the vertical spacing more reachable. When I tried one, the improved vertical reach was immediately apparent as well as the thumb clusters being better positioned than the ErgoDox. They are also ready to use right from the box, not a kit requiring tools and assembly expertise, although that is half the fun. I recommend trying one before buying if possible.

By the way, welcome to Geekhack, it's good to have another ergo dude in the forum.

[yasuo]

Given your preferences, I agree that the Kinesis is probably your best option. Decent spacing between halves, not cheap but not outrageously expensive, proven design, thumb clusters and the key wells do make the vertical spacing more reachable. When I tried one, the improved vertical reach was immediately apparent as well as the thumb clusters being better positioned than the ErgoDox. They are also ready to use right from the box, not a kit requiring tools and assembly expertise, although that is half the fun. I recommend trying one before buying if possible.

kurplop ,what really really difference thumb cluster Ergo dox and kinesis, just higher or....difference and maltron/ergogp if you know?

[Architect]

My son has small hands and uses the computer a lot, he likes the Apple keyboards for this reason. He likes the Macbook Air keyboard the best, and it is the smallest of them all.

[kurplop]

kurplop ,what really really difference thumb cluster Ergo dox and kinesis, just higher or....difference and maltron/ergogp if you know?

Having used only the Kinesis and the ErgoDox I will have to limit my opinion to them.

It didn't take long for many of us to realize that the ErgoDox thumb cluster placement was less than ideal. I'm not complaining because I like the ErgoDox but recognize that there is room for improvement. Many have noted, myself included, that while the 2 large keys are easy to reach, the others take more effort. I rarely use them because of that and no longer remember what some of them even do.

The Kinesis cluster is easier for me to reach for 2 reasons. First, the shape and varied height of the caps make them easier to engage without hitting its neighbor, and second the thumb clusters orientation relative to the key wells seems better suited for natural hand movement than the ED's single plane design.

Because of the Kinesis's compound curves it is difficult to accurately explain its geometry, even a picture doesn't fully explain it. It does however approximate the feel I get from a design I'm working on which has the clusters angled  about 18º down from the alpha's. Actually, the thumb clusters are level and the sides angle down. I didn't spend enough time using the Kinesis to get use to the key wells but my fingers felt a little confined in them.