Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)

[pr0ximity]

Topic.

Just finished building my second MX Brown board, a work board for my significant other. Aside from Topre, MX Brown on a PCB with no plate is perhaps the most comfortable switch out there in my opinion -- all of the light feeling of an MX Red (or rather, an ergo 62g~ish MX Black) with very light tactility to give your fingers the ability to subconsciously slow down a bit before bottoming out, without the burden of getting over a large tactile bump like Clears to actually actuate. I find Browns far easier to type without bottoming-out on than any other switch because of the near-linear force curve while still physically registering actuation.

Alps SKCL are very close, oddly enough. The way the leaf is structured on Alps linears gives an even less-perceptible amount of tactility, just a slight increase in friction for only the most discerning of fingers.

More

[hineybush]

I have a bunch of PCB mount ones from a G80-8200. I'm gonna build my Jane v2 half plate with them I think.

[oneproduct]

It seems most people like heavier switches, but I like very light switches. Reds and browns are my favorites for that reason. I also have the very light Hall effect switches from the XMIT massdrop which most people disliked. I type in the 100-125 WPM range depending on the complexity of the text and definitely find it easier with light switches.

[pixelpusher]

Have you guys tried Hako Violets?  I like browns a lot and I feel like they are very nice.

[appaboy]

I don't like how many people think a bigger bump means the switch is automatically better designed. sometimes its nice to have a small bump like in the browns

[Halverson]

Oh you!

[Hayte]

I went through the Kailh box phase, switched to clicky MX clones, made a full board of Cherrystotles and Zealiostotles and then ran the MX halo gauntlet (pandas, skies and chickies) and in the end I came full circle back to lubed, re-tooled MX Browns.

I hated the hysteresis of MX Blues and Stotles. Stotle stems are so inconsistent you need to buy well over a 120 overpriced switches just to fully populate a TKL because the tolerances are garbage. I hated how ill fitting and misaligned Kailh box switches were. I dislike how halo stems are too tall for MX style housings. They are too tall for their own stock (Kailh) housings. All halo hybrids feel like slamming the blunt end of a pencil onto a desk. Feels ok if you just press a key every now and then so you can post "wow much tactile, many feels" on Reddit. Bone rattling trash when you have to do a full data entry day on them.

I still type faster and longer on MX Browns than any other switch, which I did not expect at the outset. After 10+ years at a law firm trying to go paperless, I bought a hotswap board in 2018 and moved my plateless mx brown board into work and I dunno. It was just meant to be I guess.

[Photoelectric]

Have you guys tried Hako Violets?  I like browns a lot and I feel like they are very nice.

I like Hako Violets.  At some point I will do a full board with them.  They are not like MX Brown, other than being light and tactile, but they could be a great recommendation for someone who wants a lightweight switch with a well defined bump. 
. . .
MX Browns were what first led me to appreciate the precision and nuance of mechanical switches.  They encouraged me to learn to type quickly while trying to avoid bottoming out.  I went through a few love-hate phases with them as I discovered other switches and got bored with one or another variety, but I think MX Browns can be excellent with the right case/plate/keycap combination.  Like a relaxing massage for fingers.  I've got a set of smooth vintage Browns to put on something still.

The Biggest Possible Bump is the current fad fo sho, which is anti-MX Brown and Hako True.  That's not what MX Browns are about.  They are a no frills lightweight switch that's not fatiguing to type on quickly for a long time.

[SpAmRaY]

I thought I hated mx browns until I got a leopold 980m PD with them, been using them everyday since.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[rkarp]

Long time lurker - first time poster.  Officially, this be my first post, matey.

When getting into this hobby, and having demo'd a few boards, I ended up with a HHKB pro2, white w/ blanks ((still running stock, btw, though about to do a dental ring mod I think)).  Significant other put the kaibosh down on 1 keyboard, 1 keyboard only please.  That said, you could consider my mistress board anything with MX Browns.  If I ever go back to Cherry, browns they shall be.  Posting in this thread because of mad respect and love for the browns.

[Riverman]

Browns are just such a nice middle ground.  They're not mushy like reds, or overly loud like blues, and I do appreciate their lightness.  Even a 45g Topre board can cause a little pain in my fingertips if I type on one for too long.  I think the most pleasant keyboard to type on that I've ever had was a cheap and flimsy G80-3000 that I swapped out the silent reds for browns, plus a tactile grey for the space bar.

[ullr]

I feel like maybe they're not underrated but they're definitely over-hated. I momentarily had a Majestouch with them and while I did swap them out (that's what I bought it for after all) I felt that they were very serviceable switches and a far cry from whatever people are talking about when they allude to "dirty linears" or "scratchy ****". People talk a lot about which switch is the *most tactile* or *the sharpest* but that doesn't necessarily make those the best or anything else terrible per se

[Photekq]

The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

[pr0ximity]

The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

And so the legend is perpetuated.

I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.

[Photoelectric]

The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

And so the legend is perpetuated.

I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.

It’s still going to be batch-dependent.  I’ve used excellent smooth MX Browns on a Filco that were as good as vintage MX Browns.  I have two separate scratchy batches of Nixdorf MX Blacks (different spring color and the degree of transparency of the top cover).  I’ve also typed on pretty scratchy vintage MX Blacks (proper large logos etc).  Vintage has higher probability of being very smooth, but it’s not a guarantee.

[actualglacier]

I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.

[macclack]

I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.

I agree with your comment about green tech browns.

[dallman5]

I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.

I’ve been wanting to try greetech browns for a while now, do you know of a good source for them?

[actualglacier]

I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.

I’ve been wanting to try greetech browns for a while now, do you know of a good source for them?

I honestly don't know. I bought my board already built with them. I'd say they sound pretty crappy unlubed though, so you'd be better off with just regular MX browns imo, both lubed and unlubed.

[Photekq]

And so the legend is perpetuated.

I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.

I think I still have my 11801, but I'm not entirely sure. I'll do a comparison next time I'm home if I can remember.

I agree with what Photoelectric said about lack of consistency when it comes to vintage switches, but I will say that out of the 6 NIB 5000s that have passed through my hands there was little to no variation in switch quality.

[appaboy]

I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away 

[dyrdevil]

Anyone have any advice where I can find good stock browns? I want to do a build with them.

[funderburker]

You've all intrigued me, those stock photos are icing on the cake for me!

Are retooled MX Browns any good or that's just MX Blacks? Cause I've not seen a lot of vint MX Browns so those could be need some hunting.

[pr0ximity]

I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away 

From which board/year?

[appaboy]

I'm going even deeper into the mx vintage brown love by getting a g80 5000, I won't harvest it but I'm excited to try them. I relubed my current Browns with 3203 and they are some of my favorite switches behind vint blacks now

[pr0ximity]

I'm going even deeper into the mx vintage brown love by getting a g80 5000, I won't harvest it but I'm excited to try them. I relubed my current Browns with 3203 and they are some of my favorite switches behind vint blacks now

[OfTheWild]

I confuse people all the time with this amazing feeling switch setup... 67g golds, gateron brown - lubed and vinyl gaskets, zealencios.

[idlemao]

I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away 

From which board/year?

Would also like to know this 

[appaboy]

I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away 

From which board/year?

Would also like to know this 

Unfortunately I don't know, I got them off mech market on reddit, but 2 things to note is that they had the condoms over them that protect from dirt and dust and they had diodes (I've always had good experiences with diode filled switches)

[macclack]

I confuse people all the time with this amazing feeling switch setup... 67g golds, gateron brown - lubed and vinyl gaskets, zealencios.

Show Image

Love it.

[idlemao]

I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away 

From which board/year?

Would also like to know this 

Unfortunately I don't know, I got them off mech market on reddit, but 2 things to note is that they had the condoms over them that protect from dirt and dust and they had diodes (I've always had good experiences with diode filled switches)

I remember that mechmarket post, so you're the lucky person

[vegs]

Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck

[_GMK_]

Don't you think that the tactility of the switch disappears and becomes irrelevant when typing very fast?

Probably that's the reason for the proliferation of more tactile alternatives.

[Polymer]

No it is still there..

But if you believe (falsely) that the tactility tells you when to stop then yes, at a fast speed, the tactility becomes irrelevant..

Outside of that, the level of tactility, weight of the switches, etc...are all personal preference. 

[pr0ximity]

Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck

Yuss. I've heard click housings make them more tactile, I should try that.

[daerid]

I actually really like MX Browns, but only on one board: the Filco MJ2. For some reason every other Cherry Brown board has felt crazy inconsistent.

Now, Gateron Browns? Those I absolutely love...

[dyrdevil]

Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck

Please report back with your findings. Might be something I'd like to try.

[absyrd]

My favorite board other than my HHKB was my poker x with browns. I just like how browns feel with no plate.

[ThoughtArtist]

I like browns at home but clears at work.

I actually threw my remaining Model M in the garbage and found the Model F to be fracking annoying noise-wise despite the nice typist feel. (Yeah, I know what using an actual typewriter is like. I played with Selectrics during my entire childhood.)

Some of what these gentlemen forget is that their ideal typing switch is itself limited when doing other tasks. Lambasting MX Browns for being a generalist switch for computing, WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE, is the epitome of biased, nonsensical criticism.

[funderburker]

I like browns at home but clears at work.

I actually threw my remaining Model M in the garbage and found the Model F to be fracking annoying noise-wise despite the nice typist feel. (Yeah, I know what using an actual typewriter is like. I played with Selectrics during my entire childhood.)

Some of what these gentlemen forget is that their ideal typing switch is itself limited when doing other tasks. Lambasting MX Browns for being a generalist switch for computing, WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE, is the epitome of biased, nonsensical criticism.

Love your avatar photo, very fitting for this thread. Specifically made for this?

[itbesandrodoe]

I loved browns, but once I got zilents there is no way I can go back ! Browns still will be my first love <3

[pr0ximity]

The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

To add some flavor and clarify, it seems like the 5000, 1838, and original Kinesis Contoured (without the lock indicators in the middle) *can* have the oldest MX Browns, but not all do.

Exhibit A: MX5000 with a K date code (1998):


Exhibit B: 1838HPU with an I date code (1996):


By contrast, many of the earlier 11801's are from '97/'98. So it seems that while the MX5000 and 1838 *can* go back farther, not all do.

[Sintpinty]

I might want to get browns for my sister since i believe they feel like a rubber dome just without the rubbery part, which is good feels.

[Maxyol]

Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

[NTwoO]

I'm in a love/hate relationship the with browns in my Kinesis. Now 7 weeks in I've turned off the "click" help to prevent bottoming out. I type very lightly even when speeding up to my meager 50wpm top speed. This is very very VERY nice. Why the hate then? It has ruined me for any other keyboard. Typing on rubber domes causes eternal pain and frustration within the first 5 mushes. Not my thing anymore.

[pr0ximity]

Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

I've heard Brown stems in an MX Blue housing gives it a bit nore tactioity.

I'm also experimenting with lubing the legs on some MX Clears to reduce the tactility a little, seems promising.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Love the old browns, provided they don't have that ridiculously heavy green spacebar.

[appaboy]

Love the old browns, provided they don't have that ridiculously heavy green spacebar.

I assume you mean Grey, and yeah. Tactile greyz were designed for mx clear spacebars not mx Browns but they still included them in their brown boards and it feels excessive in comparison

[Budman]

IS this thread relevant for MX Brown clones as well? I am liking my new Gateron Browns better than actual MX ones I've tried in the past. I honestly feel a slightly more tactile bump in the Gaterons and everything else feels the same. Not sure how durability will be though so time will tell.

[Audiobs]

IS this thread relevant for MX Brown clones as well? I am liking my new Gateron Browns better than actual MX ones I've tried in the past. I honestly feel a slightly more tactile bump in the Gaterons and everything else feels the same. Not sure how durability will be though so time will tell.

Because the Gateron Brown has a slightly lighter spring than the MX Brown, both springs have the same length, but different no. of coils iirc.

Yes, love MX Brown! I still have my MJ2 with retooled Brown in a Doyu case. I don't use it much but it just feels great everytime I use it. I think if we were all introduced to mechanical keyboard for the first time with every single switch available today, MX Brown will still be one of the top choices.

I also think new retooled version is smoother than its predecessor, stock unlubed and not broken-in. Would love to try my hands on some vintage ones but don't think I will ever find any.

Thanks for creating this thread!

[Polymer]

Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

I've heard Brown stems in an MX Blue housing gives it a bit nore tactioity.

I'm also experimenting with lubing the legs on some MX Clears to reduce the tactility a little, seems promising.

Or lighter springs...it is a reasonably good middle ground if you really want more tactility...

Browns, IMO, feels pretty lame when pressing slowly..but that's not really what they're used for.  When typing they feel great....

Worn in browns feel absolutely fantastic and are one of my favorite switches...I haven't tried the newer Cherry ones to compare but if you can get that same feel with the newer ones out of the box, that's great!

[Telstar]

Browns are among my favourite switches. Blue and bucket spring being a little better but they are too noisy.
I'm going to try Gateron brown as they seem to be inbetween cherry blues and browns with their longer and smoother travel. For this reason I discarded Romer-Gs.

[Telstar]

Because the Gateron Brown has a slightly lighter spring than the MX Brown, both springs have the same length, but different no. of coils iirc.

https://thegamingsetup.com/gaming-keyboard/buying-guides/keyboard-switch-chart-table
They have a longer actuation point, which is a positive thing for me.
Matias quietclick and mx  grey are my next (besides the roccat titans), but especially the second ones are hard to find, unless i do a transplant

[Telstar]

Going back memory lane, I remember the cherry switch tryouts i used and the MX brown felt better than these Gaterons. Probably they were "old" MX, more fluid. These are supposed to be less sandy but it doesn't feel so, especially coming from my model M. I think the longer travel helps, and the force I'm used to put bottoms them out. But… well, the switch search continues.

[Polymer]

You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..

[NTwoO]

The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

[vegs]

The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?

[pr0ximity]

I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

Some folks' fingers get fatigued/painful with the repeated hard impact, but idk if I'd recommend Browns to solve that, personally.

[Polymer]

The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

It isn't faster...although maybe on a kinesis it is different. 

Challenge as been up on this board...post a vid of fast typing without bottoming out...There is a difference between slamming it hard and just enough force to touch the bottom (with sometimes not hitting bottom) but the reality is, you're giving up speed in trying to prevent or touching so lightly that you won't hit bottom on a regular basis...

I would also say, tactile switches, which people like to say helps them tell when to stop...only making not bottoming out harder because the force necessary is a ramp UP and then you have a drop off.  The exception to this is something like Clears where the ramp up at the end is so severe it makes it easier to stop before hitting bottom but essentially that is the same as hitting bottom as you've hit a point where you've maxed what your force is vs. the force to go any further.  If you had more force than that you'd have bottomed with that force anyways and yes, that curve is smoother so I recognize it is not exactly the same...

[Telstar]

You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..

Were you addressing me?
Cause I totally bottom out and find the resistance of the browns not enough.

[NTwoO]

The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?

After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time

[Polymer]

After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time

Bottoming out softly but still maintaining your speed is fine...but the effort to not bottom out or to touch lightly to prevent bottoming out means you give up speed.

If it is happening naturally then there is no issue..but at 55wpm, it is hard to say that's really the case....

For years people were trying to talk about tactile bump and not bottoming out and this and that...its all BS...Bottoming out doesn't mean you're slamming it..but it just means you're not limiting the speed at which your fingers are moving by trying to not hit the bottom..you shouldn't care whether or not you bottom out...

For people where there is a true medical problem and you don't want to bottom..fair enough...but then you've already recognized you'll need to give up speed to do that...But the whole thing with typing faster if you don't bottom out is a total lie..

[mkkeyboardvigilante]

I still have this smaller Cherry MX Brown keyboard in my closet and I pulled it out for the first time in a while, and it felt better than I remembered when bottoming out lightly. I had put some nice PBT caps on it since the stock caps felt terrible to me when I used to use it regularly.

[pr0ximity]

I think, with nice light springs, Browns let you type softer and accurately than more tactile or linear switches. They give you a very light amount of feedback that doesn't really interrupt keytravel.

[wellbeing44]

I think cherry browns in panda housing may potentially be a super brown, will have to try that out soon.

[Kavik]

I just got a cheap keyboard today with Outemu Browns (Velocifire TLK02WS).

They're not as bad as everyone says, but they are nothing special: my impression after a single night of use. These are pretty rough/scratchy and some of the keys are pingy, but I don't seem to notice these things when typing. They're a little too light, and I'm making way more mistakes than usual, but I must say that I do like the sound they make (except for this rattly spacebar).

I can definitely see how these are considered a decent all-around switch. It does make me want to try MX Clears though.

I'm not sure how closely the Outemu Browns resemble the MX Browns, but they seem fairly similar to the Kinesis Advantage I tried once.

[voodoo6k]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?

I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.

I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...

[jamster]

The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

[Kavik]

The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.

[voodoo6k]

The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.

I'm also wondering how different are the new "Hyperglide" switches (100 million actuations):

https://www.cherrymx.de/en/blog/how-to-diy-keyboard-part-3-cherry-mx-original.html

[voodoo6k]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?

I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.

I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...

Would it be correct to call those ErgoBrowns? Or are they something else (heavier spring)?

Edit: https://drop.com/buy/gateron-ergoclear-switch-sampler-bundle#overview

ErgoGateron

[HungerMechanic]

I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

[ramnes]

I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

[pr0ximity]

I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...

[treeleaf64]

I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...

And how do you like it Mr Proximity

[Polymer]

I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

[treeleaf64]

Yeah , true. If I use super light spring it doesn't really feel good to me because it's more trying NOT to bottom out than just typing fast!

[Rayndalf]

I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).

The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.

[hvontres]

While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.

I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.

I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.

[pr0ximity]

While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.

I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.

I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.

Model M is great if you like a heavier switch, maybe even ideal. Very satisfying if you really hammer on the keys, but it wears me out too much. Model F is to Model M as MX Browns are to MX Clears, I could type on Model F all day.

[Polymer]

I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).

The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.

For me the tactile bump is there more for feel and rhythm since linears give you nothing..but as you said, not enough on the browns to force extra effort....I quite like brown but completely understand why some people do not.  And then you look at worn in browns..they're just great..the bump is cleaner and somehow the switch feels more stable..the bump is a single straight bump rather than what sometimes feels like a shakey bump with new browns...

[treeleaf64]

Guys I used to hate mx brown but I never knew that the keyboard that you have them in makes such a big difference

So make sure you have a really nice keyboard before you judge Mx brown user.

[shadowcelery]

My first mechanical keyboard was a cherry brown board its honestly a pretty solid switch. I hadn't even tried them lubed until very recently.

[Darthbaggins]

Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way.  I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it).  The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to  use them for something else.

[ddrfraser1]

Would you guys please stop opening my mind to the merits of MX browns? I don't appreciate being pleasantly enlightened.

[Darthbaggins]

I'm happy with them on my board at work, but the Black Ink v1's I use at home are extremely relaxing  )
Part of me wants to put a set of Jades in a board to annoy my staff though, lol.

[treeleaf64]

Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way.  I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it).  The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to  use them for something else.

Yeah my brother's friend has a keyboard with the Outemu browns. They're surprisingly smooth. Nicer than not retooled Cherry.

I don't care about sound anymore, and I rather like the feel of them. It's a medium tactility switch, definitely more tactility than normal Cherry brown.

[HungerMechanic]

Yeah, a few things here.

First, some of the clone Browns are more interesting than the pre-retooled MX Browns.

Many people find the OUTEMU Browns to be more tactile. I found Kailh Browns to offer that extra bit of tactility, that makes them feel more substantial. However, the ones I demoed must have been worn-in, because they were smoother and nicer to operate than the fresh Kailh Browns I tried in hotswap - they were grittier and heavier than I would have liked. The Kailh Browns I demoed in-store were mounted in a low-profile alum "gaming" keyboard, and my hotswap was a similar, but not identical setup. I think the keyboard type and break-in makes a difference with those.

As for Browns being dependent on keyboard construction, that's probably true. The earliest Browns used softer plates, half-plates, or went plateless. Now they are jammed into aluminium and even steel plates in tight and strict set-ups. Some people who used Vints say that the modern mounting style of Cherry Browns is just harsher than in the past.

Vint Browns are said to be both smoother, and slightly more tactile than any modern MX Browns. I guess maybe they were closer to Zeal V1? I guess with the OxBloods, maybe we'll find out.

Yeah, mount style seems to be significant. And if the OxBloods work out, someone will have to throw them into a J80 / A06, so we can get a more throwback type setup.

A switch that may succeed at being a 'better Brown' is the Everglide Jade. It uses the Rara stem, which is a shaved-down T1 to have tactility at the intensity of MX Clear instead of T1. It is further put in a linear housing, so it's not getting T1-leaf tactility. It's like a Brown with a sharper, more pronounced bump, and is smoother. Once lubed, it sounds and feels great, offering just enough tactility, a little more satisfying than MX Brown.

The only problem is that it wobbles a bit. So you might have to film them. The next generations of switches using the Rara stem may improve upon this.

[Darthbaggins]

^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit.  I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.

[Riverman]

I had a Cherry G80-3494 with silent black linear switches that I swapped brown stems and springs into.  It was very nice to type on.  The switches were light and as tactile as a Cherry brown switch gets, but I can't say that I noticed any difference between that one and a Cherry G80-3000 I also had that came from the factory with brown switches.  At least in that very unscientific comparison, the housings didn't seem to make a difference.  I did think that the G80 was pretty noisy with brown switches, probably because of its thin, hollow case.

[HungerMechanic]

^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit.  I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.

Never heard of anyone putting Brown into a linear housing! Usually, they are aiming for more tactility with Browns.

[I recently saw a post where someone praised the MX Brown housing, saying that it offered a helpful amount / balance of tactility and smoothness. Must have been a retooled Brown, or a Vint! But yes, I think we have to consider the possibility that, for many peoples' needs, a properly-built Brown switch offers the right amount of tactility and smoothness.]

Also, if you are going for the Everglide Jades, be sure to lube them. The best results for me were a liberal application of 3204. Make sure to lube the springs as well. They're good springs, and lube fixes most of the switch's problems.

[Darthbaggins]

Good to know, I have stocked up on lube as of lately since it was not the easiest thing to get for a little while back in March/April (I have 205g0, 3204, 3203, 105, & dielectric which I normally have for automotive reasons).  Was thinking the Kaihl Jades, want a thick and pronounced click for the warehouse desk board in a MX variant, lol.  Was also debating on just using them in a custom macro or num-pad instead of a whole board.

[DALExSNAIL]

If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.

[pr0ximity]

If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.

This is the way

[HungerMechanic]

I agree, but people often wonder if something like an MX Brown could be made, with just a little more satisfying tactility.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 LOVES MX-Brown.

Just kidding..  THey is the Sux0rz..

[HungerMechanic]

Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.

However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

[macclack]

Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.

However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?

[HungerMechanic]

I've only ever demoed a Corsair in-store. They're not so bad in-store. They could choose one with no defects and with a good batch of switches for the display keyboard.

In a crowded, busy store, you can't really hear the spring ping or case reverb all that well. Rattling stabs, hollowness and echoes, and an inconsistent sound profile across the board might not become immediately apparent. You just see the shiny case amidst a store full of overbright lights.

So these negative features of many common 'gaming' keyboards are easily overlooked. Not to mention bad PCBs and other things that will screw up the typing experience over time, or cause outright board failure.

At home, quietly typing, is where a Ducky might prove superior. It could be sturdier [you don't always move display boards around in the store], it might be thockier due to case design, the stabs are probably better and not as rattly, the PBT keycaps will offer subtle advantages here as well. So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.

So it would be easy for a new person to see a flashy Corsair and be impressed by that, even though a Ducky or especially Leopold/Varmilo might deliver a better long-term experience with MX Browns. To be fair, though, I've seen a number of gaming keyboards actually using good MX Brown switches. I just think that other elements of the board may be deficient.

[macclack]

So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.

Yes, that was my exact reaction. A true upgrade would most likely be in the form of a Varmilo or Leopold—they are about as good as it gets for non-custom IMO. But as I said, I haven't used a Ducky so I'm wasn't sure if they're in the same league.

[HungerMechanic]

Ducky's just a tier below Leopold and Varmilo. It's a bit more chunky and unrefined in design, stabs probably a little lesser. Keycaps are nice double-shot PBT, but may not have the best fit for everyone, and I think they're OEM profile.

[Riverman]

I had a Ducky One 2 for a while recently, and it was very nice.  Their newer designs are sleeker and lower profile than Leopold and Varmilo, but I hated how you can't see the lock lights, and the side-by-side markings on the number keys bugged me.  Ducky's keycaps are definitely OEM profile, which is nice if you want to use QMX Clips.  The Ducky One 2 with brown switches and QMX Clips was one of the nicest keyboards I've ever typed on.

[HungerMechanic]

Interesting - someone has written up reasons why they think MX Brown is less than it could be as a tactile switch. It's very detailed, and well-reasoned, although it may miss the overall point of "minimal response" that MX Brown is going for:

Cherry MX Brown: Tactile in all the wrong ways

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechSwitchReview/comments/j52imf/cherry_mx_brown_tactile_in_all_the_wrong_ways/

[Rob27shred]

Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.

However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?

Actually IME yes a Ducky would be a huge step up from a Corsair mech. Not sure about Corsair's latest lineup of boards, but their older ones were terribly designed & built especially considering what they charged for them! They were built just like Magicforce boards, a thin plastic bottom housing with a thin aluminium top housing that also served as the plate. Duckys on the other hand are pretty solid for a prebuilt. Decently thick high quality plastic housing (top & bottom housing) with a nice painted steel plate. I can't really speak to the quality of Corsair's KB PCBs since I've never owned one, but there is a constant stream of "Help my "insert key name here" key is chattering or not registering" posts pertaining to Corsair boards on r/mk. So I personally wouldn't expect a high quality PCB in a Corsair board.

[HungerMechanic]

Yeah, in that community, "Corsair" is practically a swear word.

[Jmarcelo]

I just got a ducky shine 7 with the "hyperglide" 100 MIO MX Browns in them. They feel and sound amazing(maybe because they're new?). No ping or crunch, very very smooth, negligible wobble in the housing and stem compared to the drop halos and gats I got in my sample sets.

 Honestly, they're still my favorite switch, with a pro purple coming close but I haven't tried it out beyond a switch tester.

I've tried the whole family of zeals, the Drop Halos(True/Clear), Gat brown, Kailh Copper/Box Brown, Aliaz 60/70g. Every single one front-loads the bump higher and higher up, so the tactility is derived from starting the press, not the experience of pushing it.

Why is it so damn hard to get an "enthusiast" switch with the bump closer to the middle? It's not "grainy" or "scratchy" it's the switch telling me that I've actuated the switch. I want some feedback, but I don't need a battle every time

[HungerMechanic]

Incredible. From your description, it sounds as if the "Hyperglide" MX Browns are actually manufactured properly. I would like to get my hands on some. How did you get yours? Pro Purple is also one of my favourite switches.

BTW your preferred switch type, in which the bump is closer to the middle, is basically classic Cherry-style tactility, as found on the MX Brown and MX Clear. As you indicated, in recent years, there has been a move towards super-tactile switches in which the bump is right at the top.

You might be pleased to know that there is a move back towards light and medium tactiles with middle-placement of the tactile event. You might want to look into the RARA V2, Shogoki and OxBlood switches, which are now in or soon entering GB here. Also, there is something called the Gateron Kangaroo, but I don't know much about it.

[HungerMechanic]

I should add, if you are a fan of light tactiles, you entered the customization realm at a bad time. From 2018 to most of 2020, it was all about the heavy tactiles. T1s, Zealio V2, Holy Panda.

Before that, at least light and mediums like Pro Purple, Speed Copper, OUTEMU Ice / Sky, BOX Brown, and Aliaz were getting some attention, despite whatever flaws they might have.

If you haven't used Pro Purples beyond a tester, I can share my own experience. I have a Teamwolf Zhuque full of Pro Purples and Speed Coppers [those being used on some modifiers and nav keys]. They seem to take well to being in an aluminum low-profile case, using Varmilo keycaps. I tried Pro Purples on a GMMK with various keycaps, and it wasn't the same. So metal case + Varmilo keycaps seem to combine well with these, for some reason.

I sent 30 of them to a lubing service to see if they could improve on the stock Pro Purples, which are scratchy and in need of lube. I haven't tested them yet, but there are many people out there lubing them, some with weird combinations, in order to improve them.

I like Pro Purples because it's a unique and interesting take on Brown-like tactility. The bump is at the top, sure. But it's somewhere between a Brown and a Clear. Then, like the Halo True, it becomes a relatively smooth linear. I think the tactile legs are even lubed. A daring combination, but I achieved my personal speed record with them.

[treeleaf64]

I'm very much liking Phoenix switches, which do have

Travel bump travel tactility. It's very nice to type on. I've achieved many of my typing records with this switch.

[HungerMechanic]

I just got a ducky shine 7 with the "hyperglide" 100 MIO MX Browns in them. They feel and sound amazing(maybe because they're new?). No ping or crunch, very very smooth, negligible wobble in the housing and stem compared to the drop halos and gats I got in my sample sets.

Could you tell me where you got this Ducky Shine 7?

[Jmarcelo]

Hey Hunger, thanks for all the tips on switches. I'll definitely look into them!

I got the shine 7 from mechanicalkeyboards.com.(IDK if it's against policy to hotlink the product page) They have both the all black "Blackout" and Gunmetal versions available. I ended up going with the gunmetal version as it would probably work with more sets better and there was an issue with the paint flaking off in earlier runs.

My box has a sticker on it from Cherry saying  "100 Million Actuations"  with a little badge at the top saying "100 MIO/1ms"

[HungerMechanic]

Thanks, JMarcelo. I'm familiar with MK.com, and have ordered a few times.

I checked the latest shipments of Shine 7. Looks like MK.com has some exclusive editions. I didn't see any 100M actuation Hyperglide stickers, but maybe that's only on the actual box. I'll get some hyperglide samples, and see if I want a keyboard containing them. [Less than 10 gunmetal Shiny 7s available now!]

With regard to custom switches, I would also add that the OxBlood switches under development here are attempting to resemble vintage Browns. So if you like well-made Browns, you might enjoy OxBlood. [I guess you can wait for the sample reviews.]

[Riverman]

I had forgotten how much I like browns until I bought the Mac version of the Das Keyboard 4.  With OEM profile keycaps and QMX Clips, it's great to type on and won't wake anyone up, but still make enough noise to know I'm typing on a mechanical keyboard.  The QMX Clips noticeably reduce the switch travel with Cherry profile keycaps, which I don't like.  I'd love to try the Hyperglide switches in this keyboard, but who knows when Das will ever use them.

[keystream]

I personally think that Retooled Browns sound amazing but I wish they were just a bit more tactile. I am also interested in Greetech browns, I am not sure how tactile they are but I love their sound.

I heard Velvet's Jane with browns and OML, it is insanely amazing. (but to be honest they are diff than retooled browns since velvets browns were vints, and they were lubed with the amazing GHV4 miracle lube)
You can listen to it here:

And I remember hearing ActualGlaciers Lyn Whale with Greetech browns, which I liked better
You can listen to it here:

[HungerMechanic]

When you say retooled Browns, do you mean retooled [circa 2017] or the new Hyperglides?

I've typed on both. The retooled actually sound pretty decent on a Varmilo. Low-pitched, thanks to the heavy plate.

The Hyperglides are nice to type on, for Browns, but they retain the high-pitched chatter of pre-tooled Browns in my experience.

[Aritega]

I'm still hoping one day there will be GBs of Hyperglide Browns with 5-pins.

[DALExSNAIL]

Browns good

[HungerMechanic]

Hey, what happened to OxBlood?

[aleck]

I personally don't like stock MX Browns because they are way too scratchy, however, I do enjoy the little tactility they have, would probably try a smooth housing with Brown stems if I had the chance, maybe even look for Vintage Browns?

[pr0ximity]

Browns good

the man knows.


Sent from my Whale V2 with 1838HPU Browns on POM half-plate using Tapatalk.

[JordanHall]

I've been using my SteelSeries 6gv2 mxbrown for 4 months, and yesterday my "control" start double clicking. Any fixes or suggestions?

[Aritega]

I've been using my SteelSeries 6gv2 mxbrown for 4 months, and yesterday my "control" start double clicking. Any fixes or suggestions?

Maybe it's dust going inside the switch? If you have a compressed air can, you can try blowing air inside the switch.

[azzipa]

been using kailh silent browns on a work board and enjoying them a lot. ‘noise’ (music!) of mx clears was not making me any friends. didn’t bother to check how typing speed might have been affected. i was already tracking IC for oxbloods and looking forward to picking some up when available.

[Crabby]

I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

Personally if people are averse to bottoming out they'd be much better off getting something like Topre or NIZ.

I don't hate MX browns and understand that some people might want a smaller tactile event, but I think even something like damped alps creams which are really easy to get are far more enjoyable in my opinion. Or even better as mentioned a low force Topre or NIZ. In my opinion it'd be better than mixing housings or trying to find "vintage" browns.

[Bitdrive]

Honestly I wouldn’t say I love them but I very much like them they just feel very familiar and are not trying to do anything fancy. I just like them as they are, a linear Switch with a bit of feedback to let you know you pressed the switch.

Maybe it’s because brown was the first thing I got after using a cheap membrane keyboard but honestly to me it felt like a nice step up and going back I still like them.

[DALExSNAIL]

I don't hate MX browns and understand that some people might want a smaller tactile event, but I think even something like damped alps creams which are really easy to get are far more enjoyable in my opinion. Or even better as mentioned a low force Topre or NIZ. In my opinion it'd be better than mixing housings or trying to find "vintage" browns.

alps shorter throw make them an entirely different category than MX browns, not to mention the much higher tactility. Browns are for hands that hurt, alps are for hands that hurt things.

As for topre, I've had to switch entirely to linears and light tactile MX specifically because topre is too tactile for my hand pain.

You're confused on why we like browns.

[DALExSNAIL]

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.

The explanation he gave for floating on browns might not have come across correctly, browns have a quality to them that makes this feel subconscious. It's been pretty universal as far as I've found in browns users that:

A. They have faster speeds when using them
B. They feel "floaty" or "cushiony"

Browns dont have the tactility to support conscious attempts to not bottom out imo.

I do agree though, if people are actively trying to do this, its not viable.

[HungerMechanic]

Yes, the floating on Browns is a subconscious process, Browns are a 'subconscious' switch that doesn't require much from the user, and the not bottoming-out at full-force becomes an automatic process that makes possible sustained typing at lower energy.

[Polymer]

Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.

You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..

I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off.  But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...

[DALExSNAIL]

Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.

You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..

I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off.  But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...

I dont think anyone claimed that you couldn't lightly bottom out on other switches. The claim is simply that its not something they ever focused on, and they seem to move into that way of typing when using it without consciously making an effort to do it.

[Polymer]

Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.

You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..

I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off.  But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...

I dont think anyone claimed that you couldn't lightly bottom out on other switches. The claim is simply that its not something they ever focused on, and they seem to move into that way of typing when using it without consciously making an effort to do it.

They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility.   The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true. 

[azzipa]

Maybe I still need more coffee, but I'm a bit confused by this last comment. I'm not sure what you're referring to, "suggests none of that is true." None of which is true? The idea that 'many' people report lighter bottom out on Browns? Or the idea that it's possible to have a light bottom out on 'many' other switches? Or something else?

They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility.   The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true.

Since we're talking opinions here, my opinion is that people tend to make due with whatever keyboard they have in front of them. Some feel better than others, and some promote faster/more accurate typing than others.

My personal experience is that I type faster with lighter (perceived) bottom out on Browns than I do on heavier tactiles. I also prefer a light bump over a linear for office productivity. If you can get the typing experience you want with "most other switches" then celebrate diversity and the fact you're switch agnostic. At the same time, I don't think you'll convince people who like Browns that 'many' other switches can be an effective substitute, just like people who like linears or heavy tactiles won't be convinced light tactiles are the way to go.


PS - This is the <3 Brown thread, not the "you can... lightly bottom out on most other switches" thread. Maybe hit Unpopular Keyboard Opinions? 

[Polymer]

Maybe I still need more coffee, but I'm a bit confused by this last comment. I'm not sure what you're referring to, "suggests none of that is true." None of which is true? The idea that 'many' people report lighter bottom out on Browns? Or the idea that it's possible to have a light bottom out on 'many' other switches? Or something else?

They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility.   The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true.

Since we're talking opinions here, my opinion is that people tend to make due with whatever keyboard they have in front of them. Some feel better than others, and some promote faster/more accurate typing than others.

My personal experience is that I type faster with lighter (perceived) bottom out on Browns than I do on heavier tactiles. I also prefer a light bump over a linear for office productivity. If you can get the typing experience you want with "most other switches" then celebrate diversity and the fact you're switch agnostic. At the same time, I don't think you'll convince people who like Browns that 'many' other switches can be an effective substitute, just like people who like linears or heavy tactiles won't be convinced light tactiles are the way to go.


PS - This is the <3 Brown thread, not the "you can... lightly bottom out on most other switches" thread. Maybe hit Unpopular Keyboard Opinions? 

I do love browns.  I'll address that first.  Simply because I'm stating a fact that you can lightly bottom out on most other switches does not equate I don't love browns.  That's a ridiculous statement.  I've not stated I prefer other switches and in fact, I'm a constant defender of browns. 

But going to your original confusion...Someone stated that you feel the tactility of browns subconsciously because they're so subtle...And because of that, you're able to bottom out lightly.    But if other switches (even linear) also allow you to bottom out lightly, then that statement about what the light tactility subconsciously allows you to do, is false.  I don't doubt that you subconsciously acknowledge or expect the slight tactility, I think you most definitely do...but that has nothing to do with lightly bottoming out. 

[pr0ximity]

Finally we have arrived at the true reason why Browns are the best switch.

I congratulate you all.



EDIT: Just finished lubing and stickering 45g cww Browns, now they just need a home..

[tex_live_utility]

So "hyperglide" browns are really a thing? I see a store listing here https://www.ukkeycaps.co.uk/product/cherry-mx-switches but haven't seen a similar listing anywhere else. Is there someone in North America selling these? Or is this the vendor giving a misleading product description?

[limitz]

Modern browns suck

Vint browns goated

Hyperglide browns ?

[azzipa]

@hungermechanic: i totally appreciate your posts on keebtalk when it comes to ‘light tactiles’. ordered some 62g u4’s and also some 55g (long) TX springs to test.

@dalexsnail: i’m really hoping to support oxbloods

@nooneinparticular (that’s a joke) my kailh silent box browns still are not clicky (that’s no lie). unmodded.

[ramnes]

Just found this video the other day:

Frankly, I think that's one of the best sounding keyboard on YouTube.

[macclack]

Jeez that's nice

[HungerMechanic]

I put in IEMs to listen to this.

A little high-pitched, and sharp at peak, but overall a rounded and pleasant sound.

Maybe the vint Brown hype is real.

I have some Pewter switches on the way. They aren't Vint Browns, but they're said to be nice.

[azzipa]

posted on reddit by zipthatlip. too good not to cross post (pls excuse double negative)

[bkrownd]

  I don't fap to keyboard ASMR (whatever) sound tests, but Browns feel absolutely OK to my delicate digits. 

[Crabby]

As for topre, I've had to switch entirely to linears and light tactile MX specifically because topre is too tactile for my hand pain.

You're confused on why we like browns.

I don't think most people who use MX browns are in crippling hand pain. Maybe I don't understand why people like browns but to me 35g niz feel about as linear as browns but smoother and softer.

[HungerMechanic]

@hungermechanic: i totally appreciate your posts on keebtalk when it comes to ‘light tactiles’. ordered some 62g u4’s and also some 55g (long) TX springs to test.

@dalexsnail: i’m really hoping to support oxbloods

@nooneinparticular (that’s a joke) my kailh silent box browns still are not clicky (that’s no lie). unmodded.

Thanks, I'm glad you find my posts helpful. Were we already discussing them on other forums?

When it comes to "light tactiles" that are silent, I prefer the Silent Forest stems, as U4 is definitely in the medium-to-heavy category.

[sefixmm]

Personally i like brown when they are used, they are no more scratchy at all

[blur410]

I appreciate this thread. Cherry's molds for their nylon switches seemed subpar every time I have tried them, but their polycarb switches do feel oddly smooth, as found on newer corsair boards. That being said Ilove my light tactile topres, enough to own an HHKB.

[macclack]

I was inspired by all these posts to try Greetech Browns for for my 7v build.

'

The spacebar still needs some tuning but overall I think it sounds nice.

[pr0ximity]

I was inspired by all these posts to try Greetech Browns for for my 7v build.

'

The spacebar still needs some tuning but overall I think it sounds nice.

Nice! I’ve still yet to try Browns on anything smaller than a TKL. Maybe some day.

I’ve got some Pewters on the way too. It sounds like they’re the true second-coming of Browns, so we’ll see. Not sure what I’ll put them in yet.

[azzipa]

Nice! I’ve still yet to try Browns on anything smaller than a TKL. Maybe some day.

I’ve got some Pewters on the way too. It sounds like they’re the true second-coming of Browns, so we’ll see. Not sure what I’ll put them in yet.

i just picked up some pewters on pre-order from parallel. they look interesting.

[HungerMechanic]

I have them. To me, they feel like 'different' Browns, rather than Browns that are a clear-cut above Cherry.

The factory lubing is kind of blotchy or not entirely consistent, so you can feel it more than you should while operating the switch. Actuation weight or resistance is higher than expected, but bottom-out is still lightweight.

I think that another alternate Brown switch like SP Star Meteor (orange) actually has a lower and more ergonomic actuation than Pewter. Even my 65 G [14mm] Ergo Clears do. Pewter kind of lacks that big ergonomic force curve that Browns/Clears have. Maybe it's just my switches.

The good part about Pewter is the factory molds. The tightness of the switch is something to behold. Almost no wobble whatsoever, and less wobble than any other light tactile in my inventory.

The sound is also okay. Not great, just okay. With factory lube, it's deeper and more resonant than it would be otherwise. It's still kind of high-pitched compared to hand-lubed switches, like my Ergo Clears. So the sound isn't amazing, just better-than-unlubed. JWK/Durock can be higher-pitched and plasticy sounding if not generously hand-lubed, and I don't think Pewter is an exception.

So Pewter is a tight switch that doesn't sound awful, but I'm not sure it fulfills the role of "light tactile" magnitudes better than MX Brown, if at all. Maybe better hand-lubing would enhance the operation of the switch, though.

[Volny]

This thread has been enlightening for me. I inherited the prevailing prejudice against browns, tried a couple, found them weak (ie. not enough spine-cracking fireworks during the press) , and wrote off browns for good. But then I read this thread and it made sense to me that I should be looking for gentle signalling of actuation rather than spectatular finger thrills.

As it happens, a macropad arrived today with some gateron browns on it. They would have gone straight in a drawer were it not for this thread. I included a few in some blind tests I've been doing to decide which combination of switches to put in my boards, and they did very well. They've become a front runner for some of my lighter keys.

[HungerMechanic]

Medium tactiles that are smooth [like Durock] can also fulfill the role of Browns, while giving a little more tactile feedback.

[blur410]

Personally Topre has me covered in the medium-light tactility department simply because of the force curve and noise level, it requires almost no effort to hold down compared to any cherry switch and since alps are rare/difficult to obtain it will have to suffice. And not making any sound in voice chat is a bonus. This makes them prime for gaming in particular. But I do have some Kailh Polias incoming so my opinion on brown type switches could change, one thing I do like about browns is that the tactility doesn't get in the way of keyspamming while also being present enough to tell you have depressed the key. If I played more RTS like I used to back in the mid-2000's, I would absolutely worship browns for that use case and is a problem for any non-linear switch aside from browns.

Unfortunately I have been unable to play RTS games properly because I previously learned how to play them on a trackball before moving to a surface mouse. When I got rid of my trackball and upgraded to a deathadder, I simply never looked back and went on to playing FPS/TPS games where keyboards seemed to mean a lot less and mice/computer specs/monitor mattered far more. I have since gone full circle and found out that a lot of the old games I used to play on my first Dell have been since ported to steam or I have reacquired the discs to play them, and correspondingly acquired a bunch of both old and new trackballs for use in these games. Classically I have been a thumb baller but I have since switched to finger balls. Hopefully my muscle memory won't need too much tuning. And hopefully I can learn how to use the hotkeys in newer RTS games and take advantage of the sweet spammability of mx tactiles that made them so popular originally.

[HungerMechanic]

Personally Topre has me covered in the medium-light tactility department simply because of the force curve and noise level, it requires almost no effort to hold down compared to any cherry switch and since alps are rare/difficult to obtain it will have to suffice. And not making any sound in voice chat is a bonus. This makes them prime for gaming in particular. But I do have some Kailh Polias incoming so my opinion on brown type switches could change

Which Topre keyboard are you using? I don't mind light and silent Topre, especially the latter part.

And let us know what you think of the Polias. I tried Halo True in the past, but the spring was too heavy, smothering the tactility. Maybe the Polias can do better. If not, just put the stems in Boba housings and you have Holy Bobas.

[blur410]

Did just get in my poliahs, gotta wait on my stabilizers from drop tho, could take anywhere from 5 days to a month, bless drop's heart when you pay for premium shipping from a US based warehouse that is somehow slower than KBDfans, based in China.

I have my HHKB Pro 3 setting on the shelf right now, mainly because moving my model f is pretty hard and finding a place to store it is difficult because I typically have normally sized 60% boards while the kishsaver takes up the space of a big TKL. Luckily I am not streaming at the moment and the one friend I play with regularly is in to keyboards anyways so he doesn't mind the ping noises.

[macclack]

I'll go so far as to say that my switch preference has moved away from linears and towards light tactiles.

[arock0627]

I just slapped together an NK65 with Gateron Browns and it's pretty close to my dream board.  I think the installation of a dampener and some work on the spacebar stabs will do the trick.

I spent a few years thinking I liked the tactile bump in a brown but what I actually like is how light it is, because I actually prefer the actuation of linears (i.e. I'm a caveman who bottoms out) but don't like how there's no actuation force.  I tested all of the best tactile switches and none of them felt particularly good, even though I was assured by the online masses that browns were ****.  Then as I was typing on my GMMK at work (also with Gateron Browns) I finally realized it wasn't the bump I liked.

I enjoy the bottoming out, and resting my fingers on the keys when not typing.

[HungerMechanic]

Interesting you should mention that. I just received Gateron Orange samples today.

As far as I can tell, it's a factory-lubed Gateron Brown. Not necessarily a good idea.

The tactility of the Gateron Brown is already negligible. Lubing it runs the risk of turning it into a linear, which is what this feels like. They should have at least accentuated the tactile bump in order to justify and compensate for the lubing.

[chat and team]

https://paramountkeeb.com/collections/switches
These guys have sp star meteor oranges in stock right now.

[HungerMechanic]

Well, of course they do. Just after I received mine that were ordered in June.

SP Star Meteor Orange is an interesting and relevant tactile for those looking at Browns. To me, they are like an MX Brown without the 'noise' associated with Cherry [scratch/sand/gritty, sawtooth molds].

It's a clean, sharp, short bump. Actuation around 2mm, like Gateron Brown, but doesn't feel 'late.' A little lighter than MX Brown at 57 G, but the bump is more distinct.

Problem with the switch is that it is LOUD. Not sure if this is from the spring, housing, stem, leaf, or some combination thereof. So I'm looking at various solutions.

[bkrownd]

  To test out a new keyboard I put some "glorious pandas" I had sitting around in to give it a workout.  Damn, those lumpy things make my fingers tired!  Brown is fine, thanks. 

[_haru]

I recently built a 60% with some "old" MX Browns (around 2008 or so). They're really nice.

[Volny]

  To test out a new keyboard I put some "glorious pandas" I had sitting around in to give it a workout.  Damn, those lumpy things make my fingers tired!  Brown is fine, thanks. 

I've never cared about ergonomics of keyboards because in over 30 years of heavy computing I've not once had any kind of rsi or strain or hand fatigue. Until this year when I put glorious pandas into my keyboard. After a few months I realised my knuckles were starting to hurt from the rock hard bottoming out. I honestly feel like those switches might have given me arthritis eventually. I've since replaced them with 'silenced' switches, but am currently looking at browns and Brown-likes as well.

[HungerMechanic]

You're not alone in your thinking.

When I type on very-tactile switches like Zealio V2 or Holy Pandas, I feel them exercising muscles in my hands that aren't ordinarily used by light tactiles.

So, for some people, the heavy bump and slam of currently-fashionable tactiles could create additional tension or wear on muscles or joints.

MX Brown was specifically designed to be ergonomic and low-impact, to be used on the ergonomic Kinesis Advantage keyboard.

[bkrownd]

  I've kinda got thin "girl fingers", so I have a very light touch on the keys.    The switch needs to fit the way your fingers naturally work. 

[jcoffin1981]

I just purchased a Leopold FC210TP, and besides the stupid thing not working for some games and programs, the Browns used were VERY inconsistent.  Varying levels of tactility and resistance.

[HungerMechanic]

My Leopold's Browns were nothing to write home about, either.

I only hear good things about Ducky One Two and Shine 7 with the early Hyperglide Browns, these days. Sometimes you get a good Varmilo.

Really, if you want a good light tactile keyboard, get a custom kit or retrofit a prebuilt with:

-Gateron CAP Brown
-Durock Light Tactile / Pewter
-Durock Medium Tactile (RARA)
-SP Star Meteor Orange

-Some people even like TTC Gold Brown V3, AKKO CS Ocean Blue

Or build light Ergo Clears. Mine are barely heavier than Browns, and at least they are consistent. You might go as low as 63.5 G Progressive for that MX Brown weight. Just lube carefully. Also, Zealio V1 is back!

[arhue]

Using my MX Brown KBC Poker II for 5-6 years now. I really love the happy middle ground that they provide. I haven't used any other switch keyboards extensively, other than trying out my friend's linear switch keyboard, which I didn't really like. Blues are too noisy and can quickly annoy people around you.

[jcoffin1981]

I used to be a huge fan of MX Brown when I first started in this.  As I was introduced to newer switches the Browns fell out of favor with me.  There were many better clones that hit the scene.  The board with the Browns went into the closet for a while.  A year or two later I took it out and decided to lube it. I did go a little heavy and I also lubed the legs, but it was an entirely different switch.  The lube dulled the tactile bump, but as the lube wore away it did come back.  The switch now has a little more resistance and it sounds and feels totally different.  The only negative to lubing it is that it is not as responsive.  MX do very well with lubrication.  My favorite switches are Kailh Box, but there is so little of the switch that comes into contact with the housing that there is no benefit gained from lubing.

Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps. 

[DALExSNAIL]

Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.

I've yet to hear from anyone who doesn't type faster, more accurately, or both with browns after giving them a fair shot.

Testing hyperglide browns side by side with hyperglide blacks, both with the same internal tuning(55g tx short spring, thick lube, deskkeys films), it's like night and day for me.

The tactility is pronounced enough when side by side to linears that I can appreciate the balance cherry nailed with the bump. Had I not had a linear board right beside this one I wouldn't even really notice the tactility when typing longer blocks of stuff. I've found that the tactility is just present enough that I know it's there, but it isn't in the way, if that makes sense.

[HungerMechanic]

There are people out there who unironically think MX Browns are a linear, as are all switches in that range [e.g. Everglide Jade Green].

But if you test them side-by-side with actual linears, the difference is apparent.

There is a definite slowdown and short bump with Brown-like switches. It's not a clean, empty linear press. Now, if that tactile event is not enough for you, there are other switches.

But they're not linears, and they're ergonomic as they ease bottom-out at low linear weights.

The more you use Browns, the more you understand Cherry's reasoning behind them, and the testing that may have gone into the process. The one thing that's lacking today is Browns produced with modern equipment and techniques using fresh molds, so that you can experience what Cherry intended.

[pr0ximity]

The one thing that's lacking today is Browns produced with modern equipment and techniques using fresh molds, so that you can experience what Cherry intended.

These are Hyperglide Browns, my man 

[HungerMechanic]

These are Hyperglide Browns, my man 

I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

[DALExSNAIL]

These are Hyperglide Browns, my man 

I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?

The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

[pr0ximity]

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Every board is a browns board, CMV.

[DALExSNAIL]

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Every board is a browns board, CMV.

Facts

[jcoffin1981]

I used to be a huge fan of MX Brown when I first started in this.  As I was introduced to newer switches the Browns fell out of favor with me.  There were many better clones that hit the scene.  The board with the Browns went into the closet for a while.  A year or two later I took it out and decided to lube it. I did go a little heavy and I also lubed the legs, but it was an entirely different switch.  The lube dulled the tactile bump, but as the lube wore away it did come back.  The switch now has a little more resistance and it sounds and feels totally different.  The only negative to lubing it is that it is not as responsive.  MX do very well with lubrication.  My favorite switches are Kailh Box, but there is so little of the switch that comes into contact with the housing that there is no benefit gained from lubing.

Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps. 

I just purchased a Leopold FC210TP, and besides the stupid thing not working for some games and programs, the Browns used were VERY inconsistent.  Varying levels of tactility and resistance.

Here is the board with a Tex case.  I can't believe how much I am likeling these switches, and I'm making virtually NO MISTAKES.  I have to iterate that I don't really care for MX Browns much not lubed, but this is like a different switch. 

[Maledicted]

Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it.  It really is a pleasure to use.  I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action?  4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are.  I'll post an image.  It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.

I've yet to hear from anyone who doesn't type faster, more accurately, or both with browns after giving them a fair shot.

Testing hyperglide browns side by side with hyperglide blacks, both with the same internal tuning(55g tx short spring, thick lube, deskkeys films), it's like night and day for me.

The tactility is pronounced enough when side by side to linears that I can appreciate the balance cherry nailed with the bump. Had I not had a linear board right beside this one I wouldn't even really notice the tactility when typing longer blocks of stuff. I've found that the tactility is just present enough that I know it's there, but it isn't in the way, if that makes sense.

It turns out that MX blacks are still too stiff for me to type with comfortably, even though box navies are fine. I used them for more than a week straight to give them a fair shot. I previously did the same with membrane buckling spring before that (also too stiff). Since I'm on a kick of extended use of switches I have always disliked (for a more expansive field of experience), MX brown is up next. I finally replaced the stabilizer inserts I stole from my only MX brown board (one of those old Rosewill 9000 series things), and I'll try to use it exclusively at work for at least the next week or more.

In your estimation, how long must the switch be used in order to give it a fair shot? I find it a little hard to believe that any one switch is a universal improvement in speed and accuracy for every typist, especially one that's so light. Do you imply that the modifications you've made to improve the specifications (since I think 45g is too light in general) must be applied in order to reach keyboard nirvana?

[HungerMechanic]

I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?

The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

This guy put 72 G Progressive Vint Browns in a JER J80S:



https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/qh3qu3/handarbeit_just_makes_everything_look_even_better/

Does it get any better than this [aside from Handarbeit keycaps]?

[pr0ximity]

I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.

They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.

So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.

If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?

The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.

Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

This guy put 72 G Progressive Vint Browns in a JER J80S:

Show Image

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/qh3qu3/handarbeit_just_makes_everything_look_even_better/

Does it get any better than this [aside from Handarbeit keycaps]?

It gets better with a lighter spring weight  :cool:

I think browns really excel with a light spring (below 62g bottom-out) and a light typist. If you're heavy-handed or like heavy springs, I imagine the tactility would barely register.

[HungerMechanic]

It gets better with a lighter spring weight 

I think browns really excel with a light spring (below 62g bottom-out) and a light typist. If you're heavy-handed or like heavy springs, I imagine the tactility would barely register.

I personally would not have used 72 G springs as this person did, even though they are Progressive springs. The top press might end up feeling like a stock Durock Light Tactile, which uses 67 G springs, probably too heavy for a light Brown.

But I see why he did it, and respect it. 72 G Progressive offers more of a 'curved' progressive trajectory than the lighter Progressive springs, so it will still be relatively light at the top and only concentrate force at the bottom.

68 G Progressive is fine for Ergo Clears, tends to operate well-enough and not much beyond Brown-weight. I am in the process of maybe preparing 63.5 G Progressive Ergo Clears for a plateless build. Those should be some light-typing Ergo Clears.

I agree with the low spring weight for Browns. I like Durock Light Tactile / Pewter at about ~57 G 15mm. Even 60 G 14mm is heavier than I would like those. For Everglide Jades, stock 58.5 G is a great weight for the alphas, although maybe too light for heavier keys. I've been experimenting with Ergo Browns [MX Brown in OUTEMU linear housings] at about 55 G, and they can be great.

Surprisingly, I haven't tried 63.5 Progressive in Browns themselves, although I did in TTC Watermelon Milkshake [heavy Browns]. It almost worked, but I think those TTC switches need about 65 G Progressive, which I don't have access to.

[Leopard223]

So.. I'm sorry for reviving this thread but I'm pretty interested in trying MX Browns, I've seen force graphs and comments here that say the Hyperglides are a bit heavier, I'm used to 55g bottom out linears.

I wonder what would people recommend in 2023? should I get the Hyperglides or should I get the "regular" retooled Browns? they're in similar prices.

[Maledicted]

Hunger Mechanic will probably know. He tries all of that stuff. PM him if he doesn't see this.

I did actually finally try some retooled browns and I can actually feel tactility when typing at a normal pace on them instead of them just feeling gritty like in my old Rosewill board. I can see why somebody might like the retooled ones. Haven't tried hyperglides.

[HungerMechanic]

I'd like to help, but I have only limited experience with these variants.

I tested about 10 Hyperglides when they came out. Feel-wise, they are okay, and go well with GMK keycaps.

However, they sounded very gritty. Also, there have been sporadic reports that Hyperglide housings are kinda messed-up, dimensionally-speaking. They may have interference with Cherry-profile, specifically GMK. However, anytime anyone sits down to investigate this, they can't find the problem. So it may not exist.

The original retooled Browns, when they came out circa 2017, received rave reviews. They were less-scratchy than the older 2012-2016 era pre-tooled Browns. And the tactile bump seemed more well-defined. I personally think that good retooled Browns may be the best modern Browns. I don't have experience with any switches specifically labelled as such, but a relative has a Varmilo custom store TKL from 2018 that has relatively good Browns in it. They feel 'clean' and 'clear,' and the tactile bump is thin but fairly-defined.

In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.

Some of the early Hyperglides were good, and came in Ducky One 2 keyboards, if memory serves.

I guess one would have to buy a small bag of Hyperglides or retooled from AliExpress or something, and if they are good, buy more and continue with the work on them.


Personally, I would consider alternatives to Browns.

SP Star Meteor Orange are like some of the better Browns, as they are less scratchy than average, and have an 'icepick' like small but defined bump. They really improve with films and careful 3204. You can even use Cherry top-housings for a more Cherry-like nylon sound. I have a board like this, very good.

KTT Mallo are modeled after MX Brown. But they are KTT manufactured, so almost no scratch. The problem is, an MX Brown bump made from smooth moulds is almost linear. It is very soft. Like a marshmallow. You can get them with stock 55 G springs, which are fine. You have to lube at least the springs and leaf-area to remove extraneous noise. The factory-lube is very good for function, but not sound.

AKKO POM Brown are relatively new, and less is known about them. Some think that they are a little more tactile than MX Brown. I don't like the stock sound, the switches need lubing. They are obviously smoother than MX Browns.

So those are some things to consider. I would get into a position to 'try before you buy' with some samples, and find Browns that suit you. Replacing the Cherry springs with 55 G is a step in the right direction. If you want really poppy MX Browns, you can use 55 G 18mm mStone springs from AliExpress. They really powered the new Ergo Clears when I tried it. They're almost like those 63.5 G ThiccThocc DL springs.

You might want to check around this timestamp in the following thread for discussion of mounting styles:

https://www.keebtalk.com/t/light-tactile-switch-comparision/14773/66?u=hungermechanic

[Leopard223]

More

I'd like to help, but I have only limited experience with these variants.

I tested about 10 Hyperglides when they came out. Feel-wise, they are okay, and go well with GMK keycaps.

However, they sounded very gritty. Also, there have been sporadic reports that Hyperglide housings are kinda messed-up, dimensionally-speaking. They may have interference with Cherry-profile, specifically GMK. However, anytime anyone sits down to investigate this, they can't find the problem. So it may not exist.

The original retooled Browns, when they came out circa 2017, received rave reviews. They were less-scratchy than the older 2012-2016 era pre-tooled Browns. And the tactile bump seemed more well-defined. I personally think that good retooled Browns may be the best modern Browns. I don't have experience with any switches specifically labelled as such, but a relative has a Varmilo custom store TKL from 2018 that has relatively good Browns in it. They feel 'clean' and 'clear,' and the tactile bump is thin but fairly-defined.

In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.

Some of the early Hyperglides were good, and came in Ducky One 2 keyboards, if memory serves.

I guess one would have to buy a small bag of Hyperglides or retooled from AliExpress or something, and if they are good, buy more and continue with the work on them.


Personally, I would consider alternatives to Browns.

SP Star Meteor Orange are like some of the better Browns, as they are less scratchy than average, and have an 'icepick' like small but defined bump. They really improve with films and careful 3204. You can even use Cherry top-housings for a more Cherry-like nylon sound. I have a board like this, very good.

KTT Mallo are modeled after MX Brown. But they are KTT manufactured, so almost no scratch. The problem is, an MX Brown bump made from smooth moulds is almost linear. It is very soft. Like a marshmallow. You can get them with stock 55 G springs, which are fine. You have to lube at least the springs and leaf-area to remove extraneous noise. The factory-lube is very good for function, but not sound.

AKKO POM Brown are relatively new, and less is known about them. Some think that they are a little more tactile than MX Brown. I don't like the stock sound, the switches need lubing. They are obviously smoother than MX Browns.

So those are some things to consider. I would get into a position to 'try before you buy' with some samples, and find Browns that suit you. Replacing the Cherry springs with 55 G is a step in the right direction. If you want really poppy MX Browns, you can use 55 G 18mm mStone springs from AliExpress. They really powered the new Ergo Clears when I tried it. They're almost like those 63.5 G ThiccThocc DL springs.

You might want to check around this timestamp in the following thread for discussion of mounting styles:

https://www.keebtalk.com/t/light-tactile-switch-comparision/14773/66?u=hungermechanic

I once had a sample of SP Star Meteor Orange, didn't like it too much, though I'm pretty locked on Cherry MX to try the Cherry "experience".

The MX Brown sample I have (which I assume it the "regular" retooled) its pretty nice, compared to the Cherry MX Black and Red samples I have, a bit smoother than them, even when the Brown switch is stock and the linear ones are lubed with 3204.

Getting samples would cost me as much as a pack so I guess I'll try the Hyperglides.

I've read one of your comments mentioning the Hyperglides being heavier, is that significant or is it still light?

[HungerMechanic]

I'm not sure what I said about Hyperglides being heavier. I was not involved with the force graphs.

Maybe the ones I tested were a little heavier than other Browns that I have.

Cherry springs are so inconsistent that batch-variance is a factor here. I swear, a '60 G' Cherry spring is like 53 G, 63 G, maybe a little less variance but I've read of 55 and 63 G measurements in their 60 g springs, and probably worse.

[And they are noisy too. I would consider something like 57 - 58.5 G 15mm aftermarket springs for a natural and consistent MX Brown weight.]

The one thing that bugged me about the Hyperglides was the scratch, so the "butter Browns" with 620,000 actuations appeal to me.

You will get an authentic Cherry experience with Hyperglides. Hopefully they are perfectly compatible with GMK.

Kinda wish I had secured some of those early retooled Browns. Some batches were really nice, by all accounts. Would have needed to mount them in a fairly expensive [i.e. top-mount] keyboard to get the full-effect, though.

We'd all be very interested to know your impressions of the Hyperglides when they arrive. My only MX Brown keyboard right now is a stock MJ2.

[OliverG7]

If your SteelSeries 6gv2 MX Brown keyboard's "Control" key is double-clicking after four months of use, try cleaning the switch, updating the firmware, or replacing the keycap. If the issue persists, contact SteelSeries support or utilize the warranty.

[StefanVoda]

MX Brown with TX 65g M (standard height) springs. Lubed only the springs with TX oil.

Trying to get them a bit broken in before I lube them. I think the 65g springs are a bit too heavy for the switch, but it doesn't steal any of it's characteristics. If they'll bother me in any way after a few months I might consider a 62g swap. Will see.

[HungerMechanic]

MX Brown with TX 65g M (standard height) springs. Lubed only the springs with TX oil.

Trying to get them a bit broken in before I lube them. I think the 65g springs are a bit too heavy for the switch, but it doesn't steal any of it's characteristics. If they'll bother me in any way after a few months I might consider a 62g swap. Will see.

65 G 15mm is indeed a bit high for Browns.

65 G 14mm is, in fact, a weight I have used with Ergo Clears. It is said to be a very good weight for Ergo Clears, striking a balance between power and ergonomics.

[In my opinion, even 65 G 14mm is more than is necessary for any 1U Ergo Clear key, so it is certainly a high weight for Browns.]


The highest common weight I see used with MX Browns is 63.5 G 15mm. So 62 G is entirely reasonable in this context. You may wish to consider 14mm 62 G springs, which are enough to power the spacebar on some Ergo Clear builds.

Personally, with Browns, I like to use lighter weights, turning them into "Ergo Browns." For example, I think that the 58.5 G Meteor Orange is an excellent switch, once it is suitably modified. On the other hand, it is important to remember that the spring weight is a large part of the MX Brown's 'tactility,' and going too low could create an unsatisfying switch.

In short, if you want 65 G, I recommend building Ergo Clears or something similar [there are many choices these days.] For Browns, I would say that 55 - 63.5 G springs are the most common weights.

[Rhienfo]

In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.

I heard bad things about machine based actuation like the ones that most "butter browns" and that they ruin the leafs of the switches, due to the force that these machines press at, especially over the course of 500,000 actuations, I have heard those machines are fine only for about 10000 actuations, which to be fair is more than enough for them to be really smooth. I still break in switches by hand, because while it isn't as consistent, leafs won't be damaged and the inconsistency of the presses means that other areas will be smoother rather than a single area that is smoooth.

[HungerMechanic]

I participated in some machine-actuation of MX Browns and other switches. Far fewer than 500,000 actuations were used, as those kinds of numbers can do damage. (Yes, the "Butter Browns" probably use too many actuations.)

I wasn't really impressed by machine-actuation results. Cherry switches, in particularly, did not improve much. But it is the case that worn-in MX Browns are much nicer to use than mediocre, stock ones.

Ultimately, you are justified in breaking-in switches by hand. The best thing to do with MX Browns would be break them in by hand, and then spring-swap them with lubed aftermarket springs. Lubing and filming the switches is optional. Then, put them in your choice of build. Personally, I think top-mount and polycarb/POM would be optimal.

[Rhienfo]

I participated in some machine-actuation of MX Browns and other switches. Far fewer than 500,000 actuations were used, as those kinds of numbers can do damage. (Yes, the "Butter Browns" probably use too many actuations.)

I wasn't really impressed by machine-actuation results. Cherry switches, in particularly, did not improve much. But it is the case that worn-in MX Browns are much nicer to use than mediocre, stock ones.

Ultimately, you are justified in breaking-in switches by hand. The best thing to do with MX Browns would be break them in by hand, and then spring-swap them with lubed aftermarket springs. Lubing and filming the switches is optional. Then, put them in your choice of build. Personally, I think top-mount and polycarb/POM would be optimal.

Yeah I feel you need to work to make cherry swtiches extremely good (and other scratchy switches like creams and even jwks to a lesser extent), you can't just pop them into a board and it's smooth. I do think lubing helps so unless it's smooth enough you should lube most times (maybe with an oil and not a grease as you just want a thin layer) , just don't lube the legs. Also spring swapping in general is necessary for all cherry switches, even if you like the weighting. Cherry springs just aren't very good.

I also prefer softer plates like poly-carbonate as the softer bottom out works a lot better than the alu. I remember using high bump tactiles (I think they were glorious pandas) on alu and it was very uncomfortable after a while, especially compared to the linears that I prefer (I do want to mention that it was a very stiff typing experience in general so that may have the affect), but that would be the same for most. From what I tried the mounting doesn't really have an affect, I think it's what you prefer in terms of mounting style, so I feel that top mount and gasket mounts would both work, but maybe that's because I really don't have a preference when it comes to mounting and as long as it feels nice I'm happy, maybe not tray mount though it's just too stiff.

[HungerMechanic]

Yes, I was going to say, if going for crispness and consistency, use top-mount. For a softer feel, gasket should be fine.

Polycarb and POM are good materials for light-tactiles. Sometimes, though, a switch is so light [e.g. 55 G Mallo] that the metal plate can give it more authority. If the switch is smooth and lubed properly, an alum plate won't be so harsh.

[Rhienfo]

Yes, I was going to say, if going for crispness and consistency, use top-mount. For a softer feel, gasket should be fine.

Polycarb and POM are good materials for light-tactiles. Sometimes, though, a switch is so light [e.g. 55 G Mallo] that the metal plate can give it more authority. If the switch is smooth and lubed properly, an alum plate won't be so harsh.

55g switches seem too light, especially for a tactile, but yeah I agree mostly, I would imagine that top mount would be better as well as the mounting makes the switches feel more stable. I think some of the harshness of when I used those glorious pandas was that they were kinda scratchy (they were lubed with 204g0 though), maybe breaking them in would have helped, but I think most of that feeling comes with high bump tactiles being more scratchy on the tactile bump due to the friction that comes with the larger protrusion on the stem contacting the leaf.

would 55g browns be viable? I would never use them but I'm not sure how good they would be, If I would use 55g springs, then I would try them with linears first (I might actually do that just to see if I like it more, I mainly use 62g at the moment so I might do a cheap build to try it out.)

[HungerMechanic]

Large-bump tactiles can be scratchy. I think that the stronger tactile leaf can lead to greater noise and scratch. Plus, stronger springs tend to be louder.*

But it doesn't have to be this way. Some well-built large tactiles are very smooth. For example, Holy Bobas [Halo stem in Boba housing] are pretty smooth. You only really need to lube the stem. With 3204 or 205g0. And spring, of course.

So I think heavy-tactile scratch in large part is a result of poor manufacturing practices. If you try the new MMD Princess, which are extraordinarily cheap, they are built fairly smooth, and I wouldn't characterize them as 'scratchy.'

55 G light-tactiles isn't so bad. KTT Mallo is ok in that weight. But I agree that, in Brown-like switches, it's dangerous to go lightweight. Strangely, it seems to work fine with a lot of heavy-tactiles. Like HPs, U4T, and U4. I think it's because the large tactile bump still contributes a lot to the peak weight/force of the switch, despite the weaker spring. [And powerful 55 G L springs work very well with T1s, Ergo Clears, etc...]


Anyway, 55 G Browns would work, although that isn't a good weight for Cherry in my experience. Maybe 55 G 14mm TX, as some people have recommended. 63.5 G is popular as a heavy Brown, it seems to be good with light-tactiles. 55 G Ergo Clears work surprisingly-well. You might want to try TTC Watermelon Milkshake or Golden Brown V2 - 3 as examples of somewhat heavier Browns. Durock also uses 67 G as standard weight in Durock Light Tactile. It's excessive, IMHO, but maybe TTC strikes a better middle-ground.

55 G linears work. There's WS Yellow, which I think is around that weight. I liked it better than 55 G Cherry Brown. Akko Cream Yellow V3 Pro is around 50 G 18mm. For weights like this in tactiles, I think 52 G OUTEMU springs are okay with Silent Sky stems in smooth linear housings.


*I think that light-tactiles are actually more vulnerable to manufacturing imperfections and design flaws. Because any deviation from linear and limited-bump will be noticed. Any deviation from the ideal push-feel stands out.

Look how hard it is to find a decent out-of-box Brown. Conversely, there are several more tactile switches that are fine or even good out-of-box. Any small thing that goes wrong on a light-tactile is noticeable. They require skill to perfect.

[StefanVoda]

The highest common weight I see used with MX Browns is 63.5 G 15mm. So 62 G is entirely reasonable in this context. You may wish to consider 14mm 62 G springs, which are enough to power the spacebar on some Ergo Clear builds.

In short, if you want 65 G, I recommend building Ergo Clears or something similar [there are many choices these days.] For Browns, I would say that 55 - 63.5 G springs are the most common weights.

Sadly I never really like short springs. Might try it with Browns for giggles.
Tried Ergo Clears! My favourite configuration is with 65g 16mm springs!

Thanks for sharing!

[HungerMechanic]

Some punchy 'light' springs may work well with Browns. If you like Long springs, 55 G 16mm will work. You might even try 18mm.

Your Ergo Clear configuration sounds good. For Durock Medium Tactiles [a different 'Ergo Clear'], you might particularly enjoy the RARA V2 with the 63.5 G ThiccThocc DL springs. Sure, they are loud springs, maybe pingy, but this is where 63-5 G 18-22mm springs make sense. [Would make sense in Durock "Midnight" tactiles, as well.] You can have a smooth and punchy Ergo Clear with huge springs in that range.

[Rhienfo]

Large-bump tactiles can be scratchy. I think that the stronger tactile leaf can lead to greater noise and scratch. Plus, stronger springs tend to be louder.*

But it doesn't have to be this way. Some well-built large tactiles are very smooth. For example, Holy Bobas [Halo stem in Boba housing] are pretty smooth. You only really need to lube the stem. With 3204 or 205g0. And spring, of course.

So I think heavy-tactile scratch in large part is a result of poor manufacturing practices. If you try the new MMD Princess, which are extraordinarily cheap, they are built fairly smooth, and I wouldn't characterize them as 'scratchy.'

55 G light-tactiles isn't so bad. KTT Mallo is ok in that weight. But I agree that, in Brown-like switches, it's dangerous to go lightweight. Strangely, it seems to work fine with a lot of heavy-tactiles. Like HPs, U4T, and U4. I think it's because the large tactile bump still contributes a lot to the peak weight/force of the switch, despite the weaker spring. [And powerful 55 G L springs work very well with T1s, Ergo Clears, etc...]


Anyway, 55 G Browns would work, although that isn't a good weight for Cherry in my experience. Maybe 55 G 14mm TX, as some people have recommended. 63.5 G is popular as a heavy Brown, it seems to be good with light-tactiles. 55 G Ergo Clears work surprisingly-well. You might want to try TTC Watermelon Milkshake or Golden Brown V2 - 3 as examples of somewhat heavier Browns. Durock also uses 67 G as standard weight in Durock Light Tactile. It's excessive, IMHO, but maybe TTC strikes a better middle-ground.

55 G linears work. There's WS Yellow, which I think is around that weight. I liked it better than 55 G Cherry Brown. Akko Cream Yellow V3 Pro is around 50 G 18mm. For weights like this in tactiles, I think 52 G OUTEMU springs are okay with Silent Sky stems in smooth linear housings.


*I think that light-tactiles are actually more vulnerable to manufacturing imperfections and design flaws. Because any deviation from linear and limited-bump will be noticed. Any deviation from the ideal push-feel stands out.

Look how hard it is to find a decent out-of-box Brown. Conversely, there are several more tactile switches that are fine or even good out-of-box. Any small thing that goes wrong on a light-tactile is noticeable. They require skill to perfect.

Thanks for the great amount of detail with this. I'm actually planning on buying a new batch of hyperglide browns for an ergo build, and will probably use 62g springs cause that is what I'm used to. Definitely would wanna try out 55g linears on like a 40s through-hole type build though cause I think that would be a cool project