Need Keyboard Advice

[Manyak]

I'm a PC tech and every once in a while a problem comes up where I need a spare keyboard, so I always carry a small one around with me. I'm looking to switch it out with a mechanical one just because I absolutely hate it. I'm just too used to typing on BS and cherry blues.

So I'm just wondering, whats the smallest and lightest tenkeyless board out there?

Well I guess the HHKB is the smallest....but I need lightest!

[ozar]

Welcome to the forums!

The Cherry ML-4100 is very light and very small.

Here is an example of one:

http://search.ebay.com/200333166733

[Manyak]

Welcome to the forums!

The Cherry ML-4100 is very light and very small.

Thanks . Actually I've been lurking around a bit lately, just found out about the site a week ago or so.

So what switches does that board use?

[ozar]

They are black cherry ML switches.

You can see some photos of them here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_ml.htm

...and read a bit of info about them here, under the ML section:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches

[bigpook]

make sure to look at the key layout of the 4100. its a bit different then usual. I have one but can't get used to the short right shift key.

[ozar]

The HHKB Pro 2 that you mentioned above isn't all that heavy, as keyboards go, but it is heavier and better built than most of the smaller boards.

[Manyak]

They are black cherry ML switches.

You can see some photos of them here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_ml.htm

...and read a bit of info about them here, under the ML section:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches

I already know all about the switch types

I really like blacks for gaming, but hate them for typing. Is there some other model like this with blue or brown switches?

make sure to look at the key layout of the 4100. its a bit different then usual. I have one but can't get used to the short right shift key.

No matter what the layout is it won't be a problem, this keyboard is really just going to be switched around on headless servers, or to check if a problem is from a customer's keyboard or motherboard, stuff like that. Nothing I'm going to sit and write a report on or anything like that.

[ozar]

You might be able to find a DSI SMK-88 with blue cherries because there were a few of them made, or you can get the current DSI Modular Mac with blue cherries:

http://www.dsi-keyboards.com/keyboard/item.php?id=110

...both boards came from the same manufacturer.

[bigpook]

I already know all about the switch types

I really like blacks for gaming, but hate them for typing. Is there some other model like this with blue or brown switches?




No matter what the layout is it won't be a problem, this keyboard is really just going to be switched around on headless servers, or to check if a problem is from a customer's keyboard or motherboard, stuff like that. Nothing I'm going to sit and write a report on or anything like that.

In that case the 4100 should work fine. Its relatively affordable and for what you mentioned an HHKB would be a waste of money.


Heres one on ebay

check it

[Manyak]

The HHKB Pro 2 that you mentioned above isn't all that heavy, as keyboards go, but it is heavier and better built than most of the smaller boards.

Yeah, its a lot thicker though, which will make it awkward carrying it around in a bag.

You might be able to find a DSI SMK-88 with blue cherries because there were a few of them made, or you can get the current DSI Modular Mac with blue cherries:

http://www.dsi-keyboards.com/keyboard/item.php?id=110

...both boards came from the same manufacturer.

Cool, the SMK looks like a good option. And there's one on ebay right now . But the 4100 still looks a bit better, being a bit smaller and lighter. You were right on the money from the start, lol.

In that case the 4100 should work fine. Its relatively affordable and for what you mentioned an HHKB would be a waste of money.


Heres one on ebay

check it

Yeah it looks like I'll be getting that one. Maybe I'll be bored enough one day to change the switches out with browns too

[iMav]

I already know all about the switch types

I really like blacks for gaming, but hate them for typing. Is there some other model like this with blue or brown switches?

Well, since you know all about the different switch types, then you know that the ML black Cherry switches are NOT the same as the MX black Cherry switches that are typically found in popular gaming keyboards.  

ML switches have a very short throw and are actually a ton of fun (IMHO) to type on.

[Manyak]

Well, since you know all about the different switch types, then you know that the ML black Cherry switches are NOT the same as the MX black Cherry switches that are typically found in popular gaming keyboards.  

ML switches have a very short throw and are actually a ton of fun (IMHO) to type on.

Oops. I kind of skipped the ML part as I was reading the post. Or now that I think of it, even the model number...haha. Guess that's what happens when you're jumping between reading forums and studying for a test :/

Either way I already picked up two of them . Would have been a much bigger /facepalm if I only noticed when I got them, lol.

[ozar]

Either way I already picked up two of them .

I think you'll like the weight and portability of the ML-4100... and like iMav says, they are fun to type on.  The smaller right-shift key is about the only complaint I've ever heard from anyone regarding this keyboard.

Do let us know what you think when they come in.

[Manyak]

I think you'll like the weight and portability of the ML-4100... and like iMav says, they are fun to type on.  The smaller right-shift key is about the only complaint I've ever heard from anyone regarding this keyboard.

Do let us know what you think when they come in.

Will do

[wheel83]

why not use an ibm space saver to travel with.  they aren't that light tho, but they wont break and you can use it as a weapon

[huha]

I think you'll like the weight and portability of the ML-4100... and like iMav says, they are fun to type on.  The smaller right-shift key is about the only complaint I've ever heard from anyone regarding this keyboard.

Here's another one: Windows keys. I nearly bought a G84-4100 some time ago because I somewhat urgently needed a small keyboard. A local shop had one for not much more than you'd pay online, but when I tried typing on it, the short spacebar immediately became apparent. As Cherry decided to include all 3 windows keys, the spacebar is shortened, which leads to me missing it the whole time. The 83-key version should be better, but it wasn't available. (So I ended up buying the cheapest compact keyboard I could find--a Cherry Cymotion pro)

-huha

[ozar]

Yep, when I purchased my ML-4100, I made sure that it was the 83-key version for that very reason, plus I have no use at all for Windows keys.

[Manyak]

Here's another one: Windows keys. I nearly bought a G84-4100 some time ago because I somewhat urgently needed a small keyboard. A local shop had one for not much more than you'd pay online, but when I tried typing on it, the short spacebar immediately became apparent. As Cherry decided to include all 3 windows keys, the spacebar is shortened, which leads to me missing it the whole time. The 83-key version should be better, but it wasn't available. (So I ended up buying the cheapest compact keyboard I could find--a Cherry Cymotion pro)

-huha

haha, that must have sucked.

Don't feel so bad though, its still probably better than the keyboard I use right now. Its an A4Tech KL-5UP. Feels worse than a $5 logitech.

[itlnstln]

why not use an ibm space saver to travel with. they aren't that light tho, but they wont break and you can use it as a weapon

The Cherry is about 1/4 of the size and about 1/10 the weight.  The ML-4100 is a great travelling 'board.

[ozar]

Don't feel so bad though, its still probably better than the keyboard I use right now. Its an A4Tech KL-5UP. Feels worse than a $5 logitech.

LOL... I have one of those and it went right back into the box after 5 minutes of typing on it.  There is no comparison between that board and the ML-4100, but you'll find out for yourself soon enough.

[Manyak]

why not use an ibm space saver to travel with.  they aren't that light tho, but they wont break and you can use it as a weapon

HAHA that's the first one I thought of, but nah, way too bulky to carry around with all my other stuff. Besides, as far as the "general population" is concerned its nothing but an old, outdated keyboard that makes too much of a racket. It would kill any image of professionalism

LOL... I have one of those and it went right back into the box after 5 minutes of typing on it.  There is no comparison between that board and the ML-4100, but you'll find out for yourself soon enough.

lol yup, its one of the worst keyboards ever!

[cmr]

? nobody recommended the Brando Super Tiny?

[Manyak]

wow, that A4Tech is pretty popular for such a piece of crap! I guess it helps that its pretty much the cheapest mini keyboard on the market.

I think I have the same one you have then ripster, its got a standard US enter key too. Didn't think they sold it here any other way. But I don't think it would be much of a collectors item.....not unless crappy scissor+dome switches become obsolete somehow

And WHAT is that horrible layout?!? Looks like a banker's or accountant's keyboard or something. Why the hell would it be in a server drawer? lol

[ozar]

? nobody recommended the Brando Super Tiny?

LOL... I've never tried one but have heard it's really hard to type on.

[cmr]

yeah, megarat has a review here (where i got the pic):

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?t=5180

[Manyak]

? nobody recommended the Brando Super Tiny?

Show Image

That's awesome, I want one of those anyway! Where do you get it from?

[cchan]

That's awesome, I want one of those anyway! Where do you get it from?

http://usb.brando.com.hk/super-tiny-keyboard_p00666c034d015.html

[itlnstln]

That rally wouldn't be too bad.  It's a lot like the keyboard on my Palm.  I was just thinking; however, that I would just rather use the keyboard on my laptop instead of packing some of these.

[Manyak]

That's my kind of Geekhack, ignore the review and buy one anyway!

This is funny, Megarat ended up recommending this if you need tiny:
http://www2.multithread.co.uk/mtcshop/images/linitx.com/products/USB_Tiny_Thumbpad_Keyboard_main.jpg

- Ripster

How is that thing supposed to be useable? That's just way too small. My thumbs would hit 6 buttons at once, lol.

But nah, I was thinking of using that brando in my car once I get an LCD in it. I've already got a stand-alone touchpad to mount in the armrest, that brando would work well mounted in front of the armrest, tilted up a little bit. I'd never be typing on it, except for like the first two or three letters in an MP3's name to get to it quick. Or something like that.

Besides, its a Brando. Its got what plants crave, its got electrolytes!

[o2dazone]

How is that thing supposed to be useable? That's just way too small. My thumbs would hit 6 buttons at once, lol.

But nah, I was thinking of using that brando in my car once I get an LCD in it. I've already got a stand-alone touchpad to mount in the armrest, that brando would work well mounted in front of the armrest, tilted up a little bit. I'd never be typing on it, except for like the first two or three letters in an MP3's name to get to it quick. Or something like that.

Besides, its a Brando. Its got what plants crave, its got electrolytes!

Brando, the keyboard mutilator!

[lowpoly]

Besides, its a Brando.

Their screen protectors for cameras, pdas etc. are the best.

[lal]

I think you'll like the weight and portability of the ML-4100... and like iMav says, they are fun to type on.  The smaller right-shift key is about the only complaint I've ever heard from anyone regarding this keyboard.

While I think the G84 is the *perfect* keyboard for what the OP needs, there are actually more negatives to it than the crouded lower right area.  One is the short throw of the switches, kinda like on laptop style scissor switches.  Second, the switches tend to get stuck when not hit dead center.  Third, the surface of the keytops is smaller as on standard keyboards, which makes the whole alphanumeric block about 5 cm less wide than a standard keyboard.  If at least they'd put the backtick/tilde key where it belongs...  I'd recommend it only if the small size and portability is the most important factor, which is the case for the OP.

[Manyak]

While I think the G84 is the *perfect* keyboard for what the OP needs, there are actually more negatives to it than the crouded lower right area.  One is the short throw of the switches, kinda like on laptop style scissor switches.  Second, the switches tend to get stuck when not hit dead center.  Third, the surface of the keytops is smaller as on standard keyboards, which makes the whole alphanumeric block about 5 cm less wide than a standard keyboard.  If at least they'd put the backtick/tilde key where it belongs...  I'd recommend it only if the small size and portability is the most important factor, which is the case for the OP.

Got a good suggestion for a replacement just in case I end up taking one and smashing it with a 2x4?

[lal]

Got a good suggestion for a replacement just in case I end up taking one and smashing it with a 2x4?

Not really, unfortunately.  A Filco Tenkeyless would be overkill IMHO (too expensive), and you'd better make sure to get one with blue MX or white XM as you said you like BS.  But if you can afford it... The ultimate space saver will be lowpolys Trackpoint Mini I think, but who knows when it'll be available and what it'll cost.

The Cherry ML is a very nice feeling (i.e. tactile) switch and as I said I think for your purpose the G84 is the perfect keyboard if you're not going to touch type a lot with it.

[Manyak]

Not really, unfortunately.  A Filco Tenkeyless would be overkill IMHO (too expensive), and you'd better make sure to get one with blue MX or white XM as you said you like BS.  But if you can afford it... The ultimate space saver will be lowpolys Trackpoint Mini I think, but who knows when it'll be available and what it'll cost.

The Cherry ML is a very nice feeling (i.e. tactile) switch and as I said I think for your purpose the G84 is the perfect keyboard if you're not going to touch type a lot with it.

Ok cool, just wanted to double check

But yeah anything too expensive isn't worth buying in this case. The board is pretty likely to get tossed around and abused like no other.

[bigpook]

Manyak

what is up with that avatar? I think that kids is head is about to pop!

[rdjack21]

Yea I when I first saw it I sat and watched it for a bit expecting the kid to blow up or something.

[Manyak]

I dunno, but everyone seems to get a kick out of it lol

[huha]

I think it's extremely distracting. Sorry, but animated avatars suck, especially if they're so hyperactive.

-huha

[lowpoly]

I think it's extremely distracting. Sorry, but animated avatars suck, especially if they're so hyperactive.

-huha

Adblock. :smile:

[o2dazone]

Stylish, and some very creative use of css3

img[src*=1240639303] { display: none; }

but yeah, Adblock is much easier and makes more sense lol

[ozar]

Adblock. :smile:

Gotta have Adblock!  I use the Plus version and never go online without it.

[Manyak]

Gotta have Adblock!  I use the Plus version and never go online without it.

Adblock + noscript = ultimate internet security!

[Des]

Adblock + noscript = ultimate internet security!

I Just had to second that sentiment, hell's yea.

but..

If you'r on Windows.  also use sandboxie.  

Adblock + noscript + Sandboxie, = perfection. (so Much so that you might not even need noscript)

[Although switching between one sandboxie+adblock and another with noscript added might be nice since, It seemingly takes about 2-3 months for  Noscript to really get broken in.  and it is irritating at first ]

[ozar]

It seemingly takes about 2-3 months for  Noscript to really get broken in.  and it is irritating at first ]

I tried it a few times and hated it, so dumped it.  Apparently, I didn't give it long enough to get it setup and working properly.

[Manyak]

Most useful tip of the day but I seem to have blocked several other users avatars as well.

Manyak, how about reconsidering.....

- Ripster

lol ok ok, I'll change the avatar, gimme a bit to find a new one.

[Manyak]

There you go, different avatar

[cchan]

There you go, different avatar

Oww.

[IBI]

There you go, different avatar

That one's even more hackneyed.

[huha]

There you go, different avatar

This leads nowhere fast.

-huha

[Des]

yea, think point of discussion involved an understated request for non-animated avatars on forum.

[lowpoly]

yea, think point of discussion involved an understated request for non-animated avatars on forum.

That was actually an advantage of IE that never made it into Firefox. You could click the stop button and animated GIFs would stop.

[Des]

That was actually an advantage of IE that never made it into Firefox. You could click the stop button and animated GIFs would stop.

Yea that sounds nice.  On firefox, do this with adblock. *rightclick "adblock image" ofcourse that just removes the image not stops it. usually good thou.

[ozar]

I've always disliked animated images placed in avatars and signatures on forums because they are overly distracting.  If such distractions are going to be allowed on forums, I usually wind up disabling them altogether in the User Control Panel so that they are no longer a problem.

[IBI]

I've always disliked animated images placed in avatars and signatures on forums because they are overly distracting.  If such distractions are going to be allowed on forums, I usually wind up disabling them altogether in the User Control Panel so that they are no longer a problem.

I dislike images in signatures (or brightly coloured/long text) altogether and generally turn them off on forums that have the option.

I like Avatar images since they're out of the way and make it easy to recognise who's posting, animated or vulgar ones are annoying though.

I do like the way some people have made their signatures use light coloured text, maybe that should be made the default colour?

[Manyak]

Well the keyboards got here today, and in perfect condition too

Kind of tough to press the keys though...maybe like twice that of the Model Ms. Oh well, not like I'm gonna be touch typing much on them. And they do feel a million times better than that old piece of junk

So will these work with just a regular old PS/2->USB adapter or do they need a signal converter like the Model Ms?

[IBI]

So will these work with just a regular old PS/2->USB adapter or do they need a signal converter like the Model Ms?

You got the PS/2 version?

[Manyak]

You got the PS/2 version?

Yeah, all the ones on ebay were PS/2.

[IBI]

Yeah, all the ones on ebay were PS/2.

You'll probably need a converter rather than just a plug adapter then.

[Manyak]

You'll probably need a converter rather than just a plug adapter then.

I'll find out for sure soon enough Ordered a plug adapter just last night, so whenever it gets here we'll see if it works.

[lowpoly]

Those passive adapters never worked for me.