[IC] Brass plates: Custom and 60% ANSI/ISO (Soon)

[KaosJ]

Hello GH,   
I found a good way to water-cut shiny/polished brass plates here in Italy. I'm considering to start a GB for 60% plates since i can't buy by myself the whole Brass sheet for only my plates.   

For the 60% i was thinking of doing 2 versions:

• ANSI (standard or multiple layouts) - the most important thing to me here is that every switch will clip correctly in the plate.
• Universal - Including ISO, ANSI in multiple layouts, some switches will not clip so you might need some PCB mounted switches.
• I can accept custom layouts as long as the person will provide a .dxf for it (i will not test your design, I will just cut it)

Price should be (not sure yet) $30-35 for a 60% plate, not idea for custom layouts.     
Shipping is not included and i'm considering someone wiling to proxy this to US brothers, possibly a vendor or someone known.

Please fill the form below if you might be interested or if you want to help me out to understand what you/other people want. 
IC FORM here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScpa_NsRQVezRpoy1XREtZZTY00NFyC_5lVVXkL7F8K26MfQA/viewform

Also, coating is planned but i have to discuss this with the producer
Thanks 


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EDIT: for coating read here 

EDIT 2: Added sample of brass

More

   

EDIT 3 (03-12-2017): Brass GB still happening, i had to change the producer for a better one so it toke time, hopefully the GB will start this week if everything goes well. Custom layouts confirmed, covered brass confirmed, previous price should be confirmed. 

EDIT 4 (new producer):  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91995.msg2540246#msg2540246 Cut is laser, no longer water, cut on point, coat NOT on point (fixing coating is the goal now)   

EDIT 5 :  Got a lot of interest. Due me not having 2-3 weeks of free-time to handle GB and mostly shipping, the project is momentarily on hold, i won't start anything if i can't make sure that everything goes smooth, basically i can start this only when i have enough time to dedicate to the GB.    Hopefully project will restart when possible.

[KaosJ]

A sample of the shiny brass





Soon^TM

[Murrellz]

Looks like a really nice sample. Definitely still interested in this.

[Damonskv]

I am very interesting in variant with a removable stabs, in this case, you can make a thicker plate, have you considered the possibility of increasing the thickness? It is possible to do up to 5mm, i’m think i’m not only one, who love additional weight of it

[KaosJ]

I am very interesting in variant with a removable stabs, in this case, you can make a thicker plate, have you considered the possibility of increasing the thickness? It is possible to do up to 5mm, i’m think i’m not only one, who love additional weight of it

 

This will imply a bigger cost, if there are T H I C C smaller sheets i can do some of these (i should ask again to the seller). In this case not sure if the holes to make switch top open is still ok. 

Have a sample of the stabilizer removable plate (that i did for myself), is a sample in Stainless steel and not cleaned yet and i'm testing it right now. 

The first thoughts on the sample are:

• Maybe i should do the holes slightly bigger, i did  exactly 14mm that is supertight on the switch, good for stable switch but hell to remove. Also with steel might scratch/bend the pins to clip the switch after few swaps so a bigger hole will be better (maybe 14.1mm)
• I'm also considering doing it smaller than 1.5mm, the current samples are 1.5 (standard) and the switch is really tight, will destroy the clip-pins after few swap.  I have with me some plates from kbdfans and other and seems like they do it slightly tinner, idk no calipher now, but seems like it is 1.3 or 1.4mm 

[dr_derivative]

Most of the plates I have here are actually ~1.4 mm thick, even Lasergist's 1.5 mm steel is actually 1.4 mm.

Most holes do seem to be 14 mm square when measured with my caliper. It could very well be possible that there is some small margin of error in the manufacturing process. This means that even though the machine tried to cut 14 mm holes, the holes actually ended up at 13.9 mm. I would check your plates with a caliper to determine if this is the case and to compensate for it, rather than accidentally ending up with plates that are way too loose.

[TalkingTree]

Very interested in two or three plates (price depending) with a custom layout.

[Blackhawk]

Also interested in a custom plate depending on price

[ipreferpie]

That looks amazing! I'm looking to get some for my VE.A. But need to customize some parts for ALPS switches. Does anyone know who can help modify the base .dxf file I have in hand? Many thanks

[KaosJ]

Very interested in two or three plates (price depending) with a custom layout.

Also interested in a custom plate depending on price

Custom plates should be near the price of the base but depends also on how bigger it will be or how many more cuts 

[KaosJ]

That looks amazing! I'm looking to get some for my VE.A. But need to customize some parts for ALPS switches. Does anyone know who can help modify the base .dxf file I have in hand? Many thanks

 

I really can't help with ALPS, i usually do just cherry style switches.  Also afaik the alps needs a 1.2mm plate to clip, while this will be a 1.5mm. 

I think you will still be able to do it by just making thight holes i guess, but if you want something that fully clips, you need 1.2mm 

[TalkingTree]

Custom plates should be near the price of the base but depends also on how bigger it will be or how many more cuts

When would we be able to submit a file for a quote?

[KaosJ]

Custom plates should be near the price of the base but depends also on how bigger it will be or how many more cuts

When would we be able to submit a file for a quote?

When the GB starts (so i will also talk about all the details to make it), in fact the GB should have started already from my plans and to be honest i could have started it already but i wanted to be 100% sure on everything before doing so.  Didn't really wanted to start to take money and in the meantime do the last tests. 

I miss the coating tests for now and some explanation on how should i quote the custom plates for who upload the file.   

[duynguyenle]

Interested in some TKL sized ones (I already got dxf files )

[tristinDLC]

Are you offering smaller sizes of 40% or numpad options?

[amnesia0287]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol


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[tristinDLC]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol

I could make one. If youre the same one from Slack, PM there or here is fine. I'll make you one.

[KaosJ]

Are you offering smaller sizes of 40% or numpad options?

Custom are accepted, so yeah 40% and numpad too, just not sure how to price them. 

[KaosJ]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol


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If TristinDLC don't do it first, i saw some guys on discord already having that file. 
Let me know in case so i can put it in the directory of the files. 

[duynguyenle]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol

I could make one. If youre the same one from Slack, PM there or here is fine. I'll make you one.

I already made several tada plates last year when I was doing a few Tada69 conversions

[KaosJ]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol

I could make one. If youre the same one from Slack, PM there or here is fine. I'll make you one.

I already made several tada plates last year when I was doing a few Tada69 conversions

Show Image

hey bud, mind to share the file with me too :)   

There will be (probably) a "tested" directory  that will include the two base 60 keebs cutted and pre-tested by me. 
But there will be also a "custom" directory  where i will put some designs not-tested by me (files made by me or other people) so if people want can use these or start their .dxf from these files

[duynguyenle]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol

I could make one. If youre the same one from Slack, PM there or here is fine. I'll make you one.

I already made several tada plates last year when I was doing a few Tada69 conversions

Show Image

hey bud, mind to share the file with me too :)   

There will be (probably) a "tested" directory  that will include the two base 60 keebs cutted and pre-tested by me. 
But there will be also a "custom" directory  where i will put some designs not-tested by me (files made by me or other people) so if people want can use these or start their .dxf from these files

Pretty sure we were already talking about yesterday in the MKUK Discord but sure I'll shoot some files when I get to my home PC

[KaosJ]

Anyone got a tada68 plate design lol

I could make one. If youre the same one from Slack, PM there or here is fine. I'll make you one.

I already made several tada plates last year when I was doing a few Tada69 conversions

Show Image

hey bud, mind to share the file with me too :)   

There will be (probably) a "tested" directory  that will include the two base 60 keebs cutted and pre-tested by me. 
But there will be also a "custom" directory  where i will put some designs not-tested by me (files made by me or other people) so if people want can use these or start their .dxf from these files

Pretty sure we were already talking about yesterday in the MKUK Discord but sure I'll shoot some files when I get to my home PC

 

Yeah thanks mate  :thumb:

[Dominathan]

Is someone making an M65-A plate?

[KaosJ]

Is someone making an M65-A plate?

M65 is a public file and asked Rama a while ago if people could use that file.

[mike873]

What about EXENT? Some people who want brass plates couldn't get them.

...yes, I know it hasn't shipped yet.

[KaosJ]

What about EXENT? Some people who want brass plates couldn't get them.

...yes, I know it hasn't shipped yet.

Not sure, if you can't find it just ask the EXENT op if he mind to share it to get it produced for who wants it  

[Darknight00z]

Any updates on this GB? Starting in December or Jan?

[KaosJ]

Any updates on this GB? Starting in December or Jan?

Should start the next week and this time for real, so will be november   

[Darknight00z]

Any updates on this GB? Starting in December or Jan?

Should start the next week and this time for real, so will be november   

Awesome stuff!!

[graefeln]

I asked reconsiderit about the file for the Southpaw, since his GB isn't offering brass. He said he didn't design the plate, but he'll pass along my request. If he can get it, I'll probably be in for plate!

[KaosJ]

I asked reconsiderit about the file for the Southpaw, since his GB isn't offering brass. He said he didn't design the plate, but he'll pass along my request. If he can get it, I'll probably be in for plate!

Great  I guess you can do the Southpaw layout by yourself, but yeah probably is better if you ask OP who did it.

[Dominathan]

Any update on this?

[KaosJ]

Any update on this?

Sorry i forgot to update here, added the update here. 

Brass GB still happening, i had to change the producer for a better one so it took time, hopefully the GB will start this week if everything goes well (the week that is coming, but can't 100% confirm it). Custom layouts confirmed, coated brass confirmed, previous price should be confirmed as well depending on the last quote to coat the brass.   

[dr_derivative]

Any update on this?

Sorry i forgot to update here, added the update here. 

Brass GB still happening, i had to change the producer for a better one so it took time, hopefully the GB will start this week if everything goes well (the week that is coming, but can't 100% confirm it). Custom layouts confirmed, coated brass confirmed, previous price should be confirmed as well depending on the last quote to coat the brass.   

Good news! 

[dr_derivative]

Is this still happening soon? 

[KaosJ]

Is this still happening soon? 

   

Kinda, i expected the new plates + coat time ago but i didn't got it yet.   

The new producer after some problems (since he had much work) finally cut 2 plates and sent them to coat, so now i'm waiting for the plates to return from coating (not the same company). 
I should have the new samples in my hands in the next days, but you know... Christmas is coming.   

[KaosJ]

Ok just got two new sample:
https://imgur.com/a/TEQu4 

TL;DR cut is good, coat is not ok for now. 

More

NB: The samples had this process Raw brass > brushed and polished (mirror finish) > coated with a clear coat oven-dried.
The real product will be a brass factory polished with mirror finish, basically a better mirror finish and no brush (i guess). 

My thoughts:

• The CUT is on point.
• The COATING is not really what i wanted (see below)

 
The coating is made from another factory working for them but it didn't meet my expectation at all.  I mean is cool and everything and even if at the touch seems a even/flat surface, it is not. 
Maybe you can see that from the pics, the coating has some disparities, you can't feel that with the finger but it's easy to see it with your eyes, some microns of difference/leaks that makes a effect that i don't like since i wanted a perfect product.  Also there are some small dots under the coat, clear sign that the coat wasn't made in a depressurized and super-clean ambient. That's something else that i definetely do not like.   
The plan was to make the GB not to make money but to have plenty of brass plates for myself (this will be my earn basically),  so the final product must be good enough to meet my standards and currently the coat does not. 

How i plan to solve it: 

• I will look for someone else coating it
• If i will not find someone meeting my expectations, i'm considering doing it uncoated, so a mirror finish polished brass. That's something i wanted to avoid so i will look carefully for someone that only coats brass and that can do it perfectly

[TalkingTree]

Solid update, thanks for that.
Out of curiosity, could you show an uncoated plate so we can get an idea?
Thanks.

[Lisinge]

Thanks for the update and great to see some progress!

I appreciate you want to make sure it's top quality!

[KaosJ]

Solid update, thanks for that.
Out of curiosity, could you show an uncoated plate so we can get an idea?
Thanks.

They coated both, so i don't have a clean sample of the uncoated right now but you can refer to the previous sample (pic below from previous producer).
The coat is basically a TRANSPARENT plastic compound dried in the oven (120 degrees if i'm not wrong) so you will see basically the mirror brass directly. The GB brass will be the factory mirrored that is more expensive but it comes directly mirror polished, it is better than a raw brass later polished and brushed (like the samples). 
The coat is something you can feel only with your fingers (touching brass directly vs touching the coat). The coat was an extra i wanted to add. 

[TalkingTree]

Got it. Thanks.

[zekkin]

Thanks for the update!

[dr_derivative]

Great update! 

Have you decided what sizes you will be using for switch holes? I'll probably be designing my own plate and want to make sure my holes aren't too tight or too loose either.

[KaosJ]

Great update! 

Have you decided what sizes you will be using for switch holes? I'll probably be designing my own plate and want to make sure my holes aren't too tight or too loose either.

Not decided yet, but will be for sure something between 13.85 and 14mm, still have to test the new samples. 
Actually i was thinking to not offer any BASE plate but just let people do their own or take my files if they can't, most of files untested, except for the 60% plates that will be tested in the next days. 

e.g. turning this GB into a full custom plates GB and for who can't do a .dxf will be able to just get some of the files that i will do and put in a drive. 

[duynguyenle]

Great update! 

Have you decided what sizes you will be using for switch holes? I'll probably be designing my own plate and want to make sure my holes aren't too tight or too loose either.

Not decided yet, but will be for sure something between 13.85 and 14mm, still have to test the new samples. 
Actually i was thinking to not offer any BASE plate but just let people do their own or take my files if they can't, most of files untested, except for the 60% plates that will be tested in the next days. 

e.g. turning this GB into a full custom plates GB and for who can't do a .dxf will be able to just get some of the files that i will do and put in a drive.

14 +/- 0.05 mm is the official Cherry spec (specsheet here: http://switches-sensors.zf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Keymodule_MX_EN.pdf)

If you use the direct output of swills tool, you can see that they default to the looser end of the tolerance band (switch cutouts on a swills tool output is 14.05mm square)

Please do not use 13.85mm, that is out of spec.

[dr_derivative]

Great update! 

Have you decided what sizes you will be using for switch holes? I'll probably be designing my own plate and want to make sure my holes aren't too tight or too loose either.

Not decided yet, but will be for sure something between 13.85 and 14mm, still have to test the new samples. 
Actually i was thinking to not offer any BASE plate but just let people do their own or take my files if they can't, most of files untested, except for the 60% plates that will be tested in the next days. 

e.g. turning this GB into a full custom plates GB and for who can't do a .dxf will be able to just get some of the files that i will do and put in a drive.

14 +/- 0.05 mm is the official Cherry spec (specsheet here: http://switches-sensors.zf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Keymodule_MX_EN.pdf)

If you use the direct output of swills tool, you can see that they default to the looser end of the tolerance band (switch cutouts on a swills tool output is 14.05mm square)

Please do not use 13.85mm, that is out of spec.

You're forgetting there will be manufacturing tolerances and errors too, so if a dxf has 13.85mm holes the resulting plates are going to be slightly off anyway. If KaosJ's dimensions have been properly tested they are a lot more likely to give a good fit. 

[xondat]

Use 14mm for proper fitment. I've found that it's the manufacturer that'll determine the fitment - something you can't really control, apart from choosing the best place. You don't want manufacturer tolerances taking it outside of specification.

[KaosJ]

Great update! 

Have you decided what sizes you will be using for switch holes? I'll probably be designing my own plate and want to make sure my holes aren't too tight or too loose either.

Not decided yet, but will be for sure something between 13.85 and 14mm, still have to test the new samples. 
Actually i was thinking to not offer any BASE plate but just let people do their own or take my files if they can't, most of files untested, except for the 60% plates that will be tested in the next days. 

e.g. turning this GB into a full custom plates GB and for who can't do a .dxf will be able to just get some of the files that i will do and put in a drive.

14 +/- 0.05 mm is the official Cherry spec (specsheet here: http://switches-sensors.zf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Keymodule_MX_EN.pdf)

If you use the direct output of swills tool, you can see that they default to the looser end of the tolerance band (switch cutouts on a swills tool output is 14.05mm square)

Please do not use 13.85mm, that is out of spec.

Yeah i know Cherry specs.  The current sample was made from the file with a default 14mm. 
As i said everyone will pick or draw whatever they want but yeah my base files will be a flat 14mm.  On a side note, 13.85 is the minimum that i definetely like for MYSELF.  13.85 definetely works and gives you a really tight fit with a dense clack when the switch clips to the plate. Of course if you insert and remove the switch multiple times with a tight fit, the clips will be slightly flattened. 

[TalkingTree]

Knowing the manufacturer machine's kerf would help by any chance?

[KaosJ]

Knowing the manufacturer machine's kerf would help by any chance?

Yes but in this case the machine of the producer will automatically offset the kerf, that's why he also asked which is the "good part" (aka the part i will need) and the part to throw away (e.g squares of the holes in our case). 

I still have to get some accurate measure of the holes of the samples (hopefully will be able to do it before tomorrow evening), i did some fast measurements when i got the samples and snapped some pics, but i have to do something more precise because it's easy to get wrong measurements with a calipher when you do it fast. Basically my goal is to understand if the machine actually calculates the kerf automatically (just like the producer said) or if it doesn't.   And to do that i have to see if there is a -0.1/ -0.15, and believe me if the calipher is not straight straight with the cut line, it is easy to misscalculate/measure wrongly. 
 

Will update more tomorrow on the Kerf.

[duynguyenle]

In my experience (using two different sheet metal fabs, UK-based), the standard practice is to give them the EXACT measurement and tell them to take into account the kerf on THEIR end, using their own adjustments. This is for several reasons:

• Each sheet metal fab may employ multiple laser machines, each with different specs/requirements to suit different jobs based on bed size and different material requirements (pretty standard practice). By giving them the EXACT measurements that you expect the final cut to be, you allow THEM to adjust the measurements based on the particular machine they're going to use on the day
• Giving them the EXACT measurements at input shift the responsibility to the manufacturer to make sure that the end products come out how YOU expect it. There's absolutely no use in trying to take care of the kerf adjustments yourself, even if you have a sample from them, because they may use a different machine to produce your next order, based on their availble production slots/factory planning/other logistical reasons
• Don't forget Cherry switches themselves comes with their own tolerance stack. If you follow the official specs, and allow the sheet metal fabs to adjust the kerfs on their own terms, that means that the plate comes out correct. I do not care at all whether or not the switch makes a nice sound when you insert it into the plate, I care about whether or not the plate is made to spec. Sure your 13.85mm cutout will work with some switches (may be slightly tight), but keeping in mind that some batches of switches might be at the upper end of the tolerance band, and using an out-of-spec cutout may cause issues for the odd switches that might be perfectly conforming according to Cherry specs but does not fit into your smaller cutout footprint

[KaosJ]

In my experience (using two different sheet metal fabs, UK-based), the standard practice is to give them the EXACT measurement and tell them to take into account the kerf on THEIR end, using their own adjustments. This is for several reasons:

• Each sheet metal fab may employ multiple laser machines, each with different specs/requirements to suit different jobs based on bed size and different material requirements (pretty standard practice). By giving them the EXACT measurements that you expect the final cut to be, you allow THEM to adjust the measurements based on the particular machine they're going to use on the day
• Giving them the EXACT measurements at input shift the responsibility to the manufacturer to make sure that the end products come out how YOU expect it. There's absolutely no use in trying to take care of the kerf adjustments yourself, even if you have a sample from them, because they may use a different machine to produce your next order, based on their availble production slots/factory planning/other logistical reasons
• Don't forget Cherry switches themselves comes with their own tolerance stack. If you follow the official specs, and allow the sheet metal fabs to adjust the kerfs on their own terms, that means that the plate comes out correct. I do not care at all whether or not the switch makes a nice sound when you insert it into the plate, I care about whether or not the plate is made to spec. Sure your 13.85mm cutout will work with some switches (may be slightly tight), but keeping in mind that some batches of switches might be at the upper end of the tolerance band, and using an out-of-spec cutout may cause issues for the odd switches that might be perfectly conforming according to Cherry specs but does not fit into your smaller cutout footprint

That's what i did and also the producer always said me there is no kerf for them because their software will calculate it.  Aka from both the old producer and the new producer i was said to provide the original file because the Kerf was calculated by the machine.  Now hopefully tomorrow i will measure correctly the sample and will see if the software actually calculated the kerf correctly. 

About the switch clipping and making a nice sound when clipping it was just to say, it is tight, it doesn't move at all (sometimes is bad, sometimes is good, i prefer tight).  Again, the default 14mm is in the standard file i provided and will be in the every file i will do (tested or not tested), for a simple reason, 14mm always works, 14mm on the file will result in a usable plate even if there is any error or misscalculated kerf by the machine
 
What I said is that if the ACTUAL hole on the sheet (not the file) is 13.85mm, in my experience it will be good and tight, even considering any error by the switch, never meant that 13.85mm hole must be on the file, where any extreme error or misscalculated kerf might cause it to be for example 13.6mm (definetely not good). 

Hopefully tomorrow i will find out if the kerf was automatically calculated by the software, like i was said, and will provide an update 

[duynguyenle]

In my experience (using two different sheet metal fabs, UK-based), the standard practice is to give them the EXACT measurement and tell them to take into account the kerf on THEIR end, using their own adjustments. This is for several reasons:

• Each sheet metal fab may employ multiple laser machines, each with different specs/requirements to suit different jobs based on bed size and different material requirements (pretty standard practice). By giving them the EXACT measurements that you expect the final cut to be, you allow THEM to adjust the measurements based on the particular machine they're going to use on the day
• Giving them the EXACT measurements at input shift the responsibility to the manufacturer to make sure that the end products come out how YOU expect it. There's absolutely no use in trying to take care of the kerf adjustments yourself, even if you have a sample from them, because they may use a different machine to produce your next order, based on their availble production slots/factory planning/other logistical reasons
• Don't forget Cherry switches themselves comes with their own tolerance stack. If you follow the official specs, and allow the sheet metal fabs to adjust the kerfs on their own terms, that means that the plate comes out correct. I do not care at all whether or not the switch makes a nice sound when you insert it into the plate, I care about whether or not the plate is made to spec. Sure your 13.85mm cutout will work with some switches (may be slightly tight), but keeping in mind that some batches of switches might be at the upper end of the tolerance band, and using an out-of-spec cutout may cause issues for the odd switches that might be perfectly conforming according to Cherry specs but does not fit into your smaller cutout footprint

That's what i did and also the producer always said me there is no kerf for them because their software will calculate it.  Aka from both the old producer and the new producer i was said to provide the original file because the Kerf was calculated by the machine.  Now hopefully tomorrow i will measure correctly the sample and will see if the software actually calculated the kerf correctly. 

About the switch clipping and making a nice sound when clipping it was just to say, it is tight, it doesn't move at all (sometimes is bad, sometimes is good, i prefer tight).  Again, the default 14mm is in the standard file i provided and will be in the every file i will do (tested or not tested), for a simple reason, 14mm always works, 14mm on the file will result in a usable plate even if there is any error or misscalculated kerf by the machine
 
What I said is that if the ACTUAL hole on the sheet (not the file) is 13.85mm, in my experience it will be good and tight, even considering any error by the switch, never meant that 13.85mm hole must be on the file, where any extreme error or misscalculated kerf might cause it to be for example 13.6mm (definetely not good). 

Hopefully tomorrow i will find out if the kerf was automatically calculated by the software, like i was said, and will provide an update

I see, thanks for the clarification. Let us know of any updates!

[KaosJ]

UPDATE

Alright here are some measurements, please note that i own a 15 bucks calipher so nothing extremely precise, and for this i tried to include other types of measurements as well.   

NOTE:  The bottom of the samples is raw brass so it's ugly (in the pics and irl). 

TL;DR: Measures seems to match the file. The kerf seems to be calculated automatically, otherwise the holes of the samples should have been bigger of the holes in the file. e.g. 14mm on file should have been 14.1/14.15mm on plate if the kerf wasn't calculated, but this isn't the case.  On a side note, after measuring all the holes there are some points where the lines are 0.05mm/0.1mm smaller than the file, i guess that's machine error or different kerfs while the laser is moving on different types of lines or any deviation of the brass sheet, nothing that would affect the final product or that you can see, but still that's what i calculated with my poorman calipher. 

Also i did fit different type of switches and all fitted correctly (note the base of the switch without the clip is around 13.85mm), the fit was tight but not too tight. 
Also the stabilizers holes that i did 7mm to be sure, fitted correctly with a super small gap, stabilizers are around 6.7mm and needs around 6.8mm for a supertight fit, while i have a gap here.   

Afterall, i think the cut is on point, Kerf seems to be automatically calculated. Here are some pics.

This is 4.20mm on my file





I wanted to fit the kbdfans blockers inside the plate, the blocker that was 13.9mm at the bottom fitted in every hole, the one that was 14.01/14.05mm didn't fit in every hole. I suspect the holes must be 14.05mm to fit correctly every kbdfans blocker without pushing too much (the base of the blocker seems to have a variance of max 0.15mm on different blockers). 
   




A comparison with KBD75 R5 plate, seems equal, maybe there is a very small difference but i still think kbdfans uses 14.05mm holes (at least that's what i calculated) and in fact the KBD75 plate seems to not be very tight (a bit loose if you ask me)

[Blackhawk]

Pro tip: you can use the top part of the calipers to measure internal diameters

[KaosJ]

Pro tip: you can use the top part of the calipers to measure internal diameters

I know ahahah, the back part. Even if you see few pics i spent like 2hours measuring it and the back part is what i used more (what i call back is what you call top but you clearly mean the part to measure the inside of a hole). 

The problem by measuring with the bottom part is that if you insert let's say a 20mm measure in a 19.85mm hole, you can still make it fit easily because that part will scretch the brass slightly (calipher is pointed and sharp SS). Also pretty hard to keep the calipher perfectly aligned when measuring with the bottom part of the calipher.  Even measuring the same exact point might have a 0.3mm variance when measuring with that part, at least for me with that calipher.  That's why i measured with all the parts of the calipher (except with the part to measure the deepth)   

Also the pics above are easier to see with the external part,  found kinda hard to measure with the internal hole part of the calipher and take a clear pic of the dimension. 

If it isn't clear, yeah i used that part mostly

[Blackhawk]

Pro tip: you can use the top part of the calipers to measure internal diameters

I know ahahah, the back part. Even if you see few pics i spent like 2hours measuring it and the back part is what i used more (what i call back is what you call top but you clearly mean the part to measure the inside of a hole). 

The problem by measuring with the bottom part is that if you insert let's say a 20mm measure in a 19.85mm hole, you can still make it fit easily because that part will scretch the brass slightly (calipher is pointed and sharp SS). Also pretty hard to keep the calipher perfectly aligned when measuring with the bottom part of the calipher.  Even measuring the same exact point might have a 0.3mm variance when measuring with that part, at least for me with that calipher.  That's why i measured with all the parts of the calipher (except with the part to measure the deepth)   



If it isn't clear, yeah i used that part mostly)
https://i.imgur.com/lcx4Zov.png

Haha, good to know. It always irks me a little when people use calipers incorrectly 

[KaosJ]

Pro tip: you can use the top part of the calipers to measure internal diameters

I know ahahah, the back part. Even if you see few pics i spent like 2hours measuring it and the back part is what i used more (what i call back is what you call top but you clearly mean the part to measure the inside of a hole). 

The problem by measuring with the bottom part is that if you insert let's say a 20mm measure in a 19.85mm hole, you can still make it fit easily because that part will scretch the brass slightly (calipher is pointed and sharp SS). Also pretty hard to keep the calipher perfectly aligned when measuring with the bottom part of the calipher.  Even measuring the same exact point might have a 0.3mm variance when measuring with that part, at least for me with that calipher.  That's why i measured with all the parts of the calipher (except with the part to measure the deepth)   



If it isn't clear, yeah i used that part mostly)
https://i.imgur.com/lcx4Zov.png

Haha, good to know. It always irks me a little when people use calipers incorrectly 

Btw here is an example to make it more clear (done on the kbd75 plate), that's why i think the internal hole part of the calipher isn't accurate enough on plates, basically because a plate is too thin ( around 1.5mm) for that part of the calipher. That part of the calipher imho works good when the hole has a thickness and when the material is strong enough (e.g SS) 

See the 3 pics below. 


I believe the real hole is 14.05mm


...but 13.99mm came out from this type of measurement


... and 14.10mm came out from the same type of measurement, 0.1mm variance from the previous photo, measured in the same point, mostly due scratches of the calipher on plate or/and different angles of the calipher. 
 

TL;DR my goal was to measure if there is a 0.1mm error/kerf on the sample (that is a really small measure) and with that part of the caliper it is easy to take different measurements on the same point of a thin plate. 

 
EDIT: A last pic, this is how i think is better to use the internal part of the calipher when you have to use that part on a thin surface, and that's what i did when measuring with the internal part.   

[duynguyenle]

Elastic deformation of the plate when you force it with the jaws of the caliper isn't really gonna mean anything in the grand scheme of things (probably in the handful of microstrains). It is extremely unlikely that you will work the plate to its plastic deformation using any sort of reasonable hand force, and if you do, it's likely that you're stressing the calipers beyond its design limits in the first place. Use the small jaws for internal dimensions like they're intended to, otherwise you just introduce additional parallax errors when you try and line it up like you are doing with the large jaws.

That said, everything seems to be to spec. Good too hear! Would love to get this thing on the road once everything is nailed down.

As for the stabiliser cutout, 7mm is sensible. On my own drawings I tend to err on the generous side and spec 7.15mm wide holes, for personal preference, and they come out just fine on the 1800 plates that I had made in the past.

[KaosJ]

That said, everything seems to be to spec. Good too hear! Would love to get this thing on the road once everything is nailed down.

Right now i'm just hoping to fix the coat if they can or find a better clear coat service or just remove the coat. 
Yesterday i also started to build mine with one of the sample (standard ansi) and seems to work flowly

As for the stabiliser cutout, 7mm is sensible. On my own drawings I tend to err on the generous side and spec 7.15mm wide holes, for personal preference, and they come out just fine on the 1800 plates that I had made in the past.

 

Yeah here comes to people preference i guess. Not that you can see any real difference between 7 and 7.15mm but whatever, that's why we are doing a custom plate GB.  The important for me is that people will not use the standard swillkb for stabs (aka 6.8mm), it still works but i don't recommend it. 

Elastic deformation of the plate when you force it with the jaws of the caliper isn't really gonna mean anything in the grand scheme of things (probably in the handful of microstrains). It is extremely unlikely that you will work the plate to its plastic deformation using any sort of reasonable hand force, and if you do, it's likely that you're stressing the calipers beyond its design limits in the first place. Use the small jaws for internal dimensions like they're intended to, otherwise you just introduce additional parallax errors when you try and line it up like you are doing with the large jaws.

Well i did measured with the small jaws (it's what i used more as said above), but i measured also with the big part and that was imho the most accurate measurement. 
The goal here was to find out if there was a 0.05/0.1mm difference so the elastic deformation definetely matters in this, since it is easy to take different measures with the small part by just applying a different force or angle (since the small jaws also have a really small surface). On the other side aligning properly with a blocker or a stabilizer housing the big part of the calipher was easy to get better measurements. 
Honestly I'm trying to be super-accurate, as much as i can with my equipment (that is definetely not the best equipment) so for this i also included other types of measurements or comparisons with another plate, i also compared my other plates and custom plates i already had but i only included the kbdfans in the pics because it was black (aka easy to see the contrast on photos). 

Afterall the real test, literally putting different types of switches inside the holes and putting different factory stabilizers, made me satisfied with the dimensions, it worked much better than any other plate i own not too tight, not too lose, firm switches but still not hard to remove, just a nice fit like it should be  imho now i should focus on the coat. 
 

 

[dr_derivative]

Would a 2u switch/stab cut out like this be OK in a custom plate? I'm worried the 1.4mm section could be too thin and fragile to manufacture.

I'm hoping to use a cut out like this for SMK switches since they have clips at the sides rather than at the front and back like Cherry.

[KaosJ]

Show Image

Would a 2u switch/stab cut out like this be OK in a custom plate? I'm worried the 1.4mm section could be too thin and fragile to manufacture.

I'm hoping to use a cut out like this for SMK switches since they have clips at the sides rather than at the front and back like Cherry.

Legit question, this is one of the things that i can't say for sure now but will tell more during the GB, this is something that i have to ask to the producer (along with many other questions).     

AFAIK from previous experiences with laser cut services, it is recommended to not let things smaller than the thickness of the material on the file, because the laser might burn that part, but in your case we are really close to the material thickness (1.4mm vs 1.5mm) so i think it will work without problems. For sure don't do a 0.3mm feature, but this seems ok to me (still I will tell you something more precise when I will have a better answer) 

[dr_derivative]

Show Image

Would a 2u switch/stab cut out like this be OK in a custom plate? I'm worried the 1.4mm section could be too thin and fragile to manufacture.

I'm hoping to use a cut out like this for SMK switches since they have clips at the sides rather than at the front and back like Cherry.

Legit question, this is one of the things that i can't say for sure now but will tell more during the GB, this is something that i have to ask to the producer (along with many other questions).     

AFAIK from previous experiences with laser cut services, it is recommended to not let things smaller than the thickness of the material on the file, because the laser might burn that part, but in your case we are really close to the material thickness (1.4mm vs 1.5mm) so i think it will work without problems. For sure don't do a 0.3mm feature, but this seems ok to me (still I will tell you something more precise when I will have a better answer)

Thank you  :thumb:

[kiettv12]

will you ship to asia ? south east asia ?

[KaosJ]

will you ship to asia ? south east asia ?

Yes, and shipping should not be exagerated, tracked ensured should be around 12 euro with the bulk shipping contract that i got. 

Eventually can set up a proxy but i don't think it will be worth toward Asia, maybe a US proxy would be cool if anyone wants to jump in! 

[KaosJ]

Here is the built one with the standard ansi sample. Happy new year everyone   

[TalkingTree]

Neat. I'm really looking forward to this GB.

[TalkingTree]

Other than asking for an update, I'd like to know if it's also possible to have some engravings.

[KaosJ]

Other than asking for an update, I'd like to know if it's also possible to have some engravings.

Will have an update on monday I guess, including the engraving question, not totally sure if it is possible but i ask. 

[TalkingTree]

not totally sure if it is possible but i ask.

Much obliged.