NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[Eszett]

Hi swill! I would understand it, if it was a slightly enlarged cutout for the Costar stabs. But the cutout is shrinked, by 0.2mm! Maybe because else the Costar stabs would not sit tight enough? Ok, but the Cherry stabs fit in too, that means the Cherry only cutouts can have the same dimensions (0.2mm less)?

[swill]

Hi swill! I would understand it, if it was a slightly enlarged cutout for the Costar stabs. But the cutout is shrinked, by 0.2mm! Maybe because else the Costar stabs would not sit tight enough? Ok, but the Cherry stabs fit in too, that means the Cherry only cutouts can have the same dimensions (0.2mm less)?

You are neglecting the cutout on the top of the stabilizer. It is because the costar stabilizer needs to be in the right place in both placement and length.

Trust me on this one. This measurement has had more review than any other cutout. It has already been tweaked a couple times to get it just right, and that was after integrating details from other designer's costar/cherry cutouts.

Maybe review the costar only stabilizer to compare.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[ideus]

Is there a generally accepted rule for Cutting shops regarding kerf? Or we should ask each time if they add it, or the customer should do it?

No there is not. It depends on the shop. Some will account for kerf for you and you won't have to worry about it. Some expect you to account for it, but you have to ask what their kerf is for the material and thickness you are cutting.

There are a lot of different machines and cutting types, each with different kerf. A single machine will have different kerf values based on; material, thickness and tool speed. Because if this you really need to be checking with the fab shop to know how to get the best results given your material details.

Of course, we should ask up front depending on material and thickness, thank you.

[swill]

Hi swill! I'm looking forward to your coming fairing feature! A Question: You wrote a 16*16mm courtyard will be sufficient for Cherry MX & stabs. Does this include costar stabs too? Or just Cherry & cherry stabs?


Changed topic: I noticed a bug(?) in the plate builder. Or isn't it a bug?
See picture.
(Attachment Link)

This is not a bug, this is correct. 

[swill]

http://imgur.com/a/RrNoB


maybe hard to see, the alps stabiliser clip spacing doesnt seem to match the wire size, the wire cant be 'rolled' down from this position as the spacing of the clips is too narrow

I will fix this. I have had mixed reports on this. I will make the 2u stabilizer cutouts closer to the switch cutout.

As a small fix for this. Clip the corner off the alps stabilizer and it will be able to rotate. Let me know if that is not clear.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

the fix worked, thanks

however, the same still applies for the right shift for example, and the difference in that case is enough that even clipped stabilisers will not turn. (I pulled a rshift stabiliser from a dell at102 just now, so I know it's not my stabilisers)

Ya. I need to adjust those widths. What width keys are you having problems with?

rshift is 2.25u.

I haven't looked at my 5.5u spacebar yet.


this was my design (the gap between spacebar and ralt was because of my mistake)
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/15c003ced176049524258fd31dc3d941
http://puu.sh/qt77d/bfd3e7c384.png

another thing is that you need to sacrifice the 'poker case' screw on the left if using alps stabilisers, due to this
http://puu.sh/qt7e3/9b79619640.png

previously, I think the left hole and left stabiliser mark would 'blend into eachother', so I made the mistake of not realising until I tried to install stabilisers.

I'm having problems with my enter key (but that's because I have too 'wide' stabilisers due to using an AEK enter to salvage the mismatched placement of the switch itself)



I'll likely end up desoldering and making a new plate with these issues resolved

Looking at your layout, it appears to be the 2.75u Rshift that is having a problem.  Can you confirm?

Also, is it possible to flip alps stabilizers?  If so, we could rotate the caps lock key 180 degrees and have the stabilizer not mess with the poker cutout.  {w:1.75,_rs:180},"Caps Lock"

This would result in the following, would that work?

[swill]

I will do an official email later when I have some more time, but if you watch this thread, go checkout: http://builder.swillkb.com/

[duynguyenle]

http://imgur.com/a/RrNoB


maybe hard to see, the alps stabiliser clip spacing doesnt seem to match the wire size, the wire cant be 'rolled' down from this position as the spacing of the clips is too narrow

I will fix this. I have had mixed reports on this. I will make the 2u stabilizer cutouts closer to the switch cutout.

As a small fix for this. Clip the corner off the alps stabilizer and it will be able to rotate. Let me know if that is not clear.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

the fix worked, thanks

however, the same still applies for the right shift for example, and the difference in that case is enough that even clipped stabilisers will not turn. (I pulled a rshift stabiliser from a dell at102 just now, so I know it's not my stabilisers)

Ya. I need to adjust those widths. What width keys are you having problems with?

rshift is 2.25u.

I haven't looked at my 5.5u spacebar yet.


this was my design (the gap between spacebar and ralt was because of my mistake)
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/15c003ced176049524258fd31dc3d941
http://puu.sh/qt77d/bfd3e7c384.png

another thing is that you need to sacrifice the 'poker case' screw on the left if using alps stabilisers, due to this
http://puu.sh/qt7e3/9b79619640.png

previously, I think the left hole and left stabiliser mark would 'blend into eachother', so I made the mistake of not realising until I tried to install stabilisers.

I'm having problems with my enter key (but that's because I have too 'wide' stabilisers due to using an AEK enter to salvage the mismatched placement of the switch itself)



I'll likely end up desoldering and making a new plate with these issues resolved

Looking at your layout, it appears to be the 2.75u Rshift that is having a problem.  Can you confirm?

Also, is it possible to flip alps stabilizers?  If so, we could rotate the caps lock key 180 degrees and have the stabilizer not mess with the poker cutout.  {w:1.75,_rs:180},"Caps Lock"

This would result in the following, would that work?

(Attachment Link)

I don't believe it's possible to flip Alps stabs, the asymmetry of the insert positions precludes that possibility I think. Just having a quick test with the Alps plate I've got on hand and a 2u stabilised AEK keycap, the wire does not stay in the 'jaw' of the keycap insert (engineering term is the birdmouth  ).

If it's helpful for you, I could try and make a quick video demonstrating this tomorrow.

[swill]

http://imgur.com/a/RrNoB


maybe hard to see, the alps stabiliser clip spacing doesnt seem to match the wire size, the wire cant be 'rolled' down from this position as the spacing of the clips is too narrow

I will fix this. I have had mixed reports on this. I will make the 2u stabilizer cutouts closer to the switch cutout.

As a small fix for this. Clip the corner off the alps stabilizer and it will be able to rotate. Let me know if that is not clear.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

the fix worked, thanks

however, the same still applies for the right shift for example, and the difference in that case is enough that even clipped stabilisers will not turn. (I pulled a rshift stabiliser from a dell at102 just now, so I know it's not my stabilisers)

Ya. I need to adjust those widths. What width keys are you having problems with?

rshift is 2.25u.

I haven't looked at my 5.5u spacebar yet.


this was my design (the gap between spacebar and ralt was because of my mistake)
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/15c003ced176049524258fd31dc3d941
http://puu.sh/qt77d/bfd3e7c384.png

another thing is that you need to sacrifice the 'poker case' screw on the left if using alps stabilisers, due to this
http://puu.sh/qt7e3/9b79619640.png

previously, I think the left hole and left stabiliser mark would 'blend into eachother', so I made the mistake of not realising until I tried to install stabilisers.

I'm having problems with my enter key (but that's because I have too 'wide' stabilisers due to using an AEK enter to salvage the mismatched placement of the switch itself)



I'll likely end up desoldering and making a new plate with these issues resolved

Looking at your layout, it appears to be the 2.75u Rshift that is having a problem.  Can you confirm?

Also, is it possible to flip alps stabilizers?  If so, we could rotate the caps lock key 180 degrees and have the stabilizer not mess with the poker cutout.  {w:1.75,_rs:180},"Caps Lock"

This would result in the following, would that work?

(Attachment Link)

I don't believe it's possible to flip Alps stabs, the asymmetry of the insert positions precludes that possibility I think. Just having a quick test with the Alps plate I've got on hand and a 2u stabilised AEK keycap, the wire does not stay in the 'jaw' of the keycap insert (engineering term is the birdmouth  ).

If it's helpful for you, I could try and make a quick video demonstrating this tomorrow.

OK. Can you take out and flip the insert in the keycap maybe? I will see what I can do to fix that interaction.

[duynguyenle]

OK. Can you take out and flip the insert in the keycap maybe? I will see what I can do to fix that interaction.

That is precisely what I have done, it doesn't work with a flipped stab holes, if you try and flip the stab hole position and the keycap insert, the wire length means that it will lie entirely outside the jaw of the insert for the entirety of the key travel. I will try to take a quick video in the morning to illustrate what I mean. I believe it can work, the issue is just the length of the Alps wire.

I will try using some Matias stabiliser wire I have as well, since those are shorter than AEK and Dell wires that I have. Will need to try and dig that out of my big box of assorted keyboard stuff tomorrow.

[swill]

OK. Can you take out and flip the insert in the keycap maybe? I will see what I can do to fix that interaction.

That is precisely what I have done, it doesn't work with a flipped stab holes, if you try and flip the stab hole position and the keycap insert, the wire length means that it will lie entirely outside the jaw of the insert for the entirety of the key travel. I will try to take a quick video in the morning to illustrate what I mean. I believe it can work, the issue is just the length of the Alps wire.

I will try using some Matias stabiliser wire I have as well, since those are shorter than AEK and Dell wires that I have. Will need to try and dig that out of my big box of assorted keyboard stuff tomorrow.

Cool. Thanks for checking on this for me.

In that case, can you confirm I default to the correct orientation for the alps iso enter?  I know I need to adjust for stem placement on that key too.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Eszett]

Alright, I've updated Reply #1738.

[swill]

The builder now has an integration with lasergist to offer you an end to end service. 
Design and order your cases at http://builder.swillkb.com/

The details are subject to change, but here is a snapshot of the functionality.

Design a Plate / Case, then Order




Choose what you want, with Live Price Updates




Checkout at lasergist.com



We are working on ways to bring the costs down, so check in the builder for the actual costs...

[duynguyenle]

Cool. Thanks for checking on this for me.

In that case, can you confirm I default to the correct orientation for the alps iso enter?  I know I need to adjust for stem placement on that key too.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Here's a little video, sorry about potato quality:

Using a Matias wire makes no difference, as the Matias wire is only fractionally shorter:


I can confirm your ISO enter cutout position is slightly off, but the stabiliser cut out is in the correct position:




I will try and confirm how much you need to move your Enter hole position once I get around to making some new Alps plates, I believe I got a drawing that works but would like to get some plates cut locally and find out first hand. Alternately I could try and dig out my old Dell AT102W, but that's currently in storage buried in one out of a gazillion identical boxes 

[swill]

I have been getting a lot of traffic from disrespectful spiders, so I have implemented some CIDR blocking.  If you get the following message when you try to access the builder, please let me know so I can fix my IP blocking.  Thanks...

403 Forbidden: Contact me if you think this error is a mistake.

[swill]

Cool. Thanks for checking on this for me.

In that case, can you confirm I default to the correct orientation for the alps iso enter?  I know I need to adjust for stem placement on that key too.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Here's a little video, sorry about potato quality:

Using a Matias wire makes no difference, as the Matias wire is only fractionally shorter:

Show Image

I can confirm your ISO enter cutout position is slightly off, but the stabiliser cut out is in the correct position:

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

I will try and confirm how much you need to move your Enter hole position once I get around to making some new Alps plates, I believe I got a drawing that works but would like to get some plates cut locally and find out first hand. Alternately I could try and dig out my old Dell AT102W, but that's currently in storage buried in one out of a gazillion identical boxes 

Thank you for the detail.  I will work on a solution for the poker plate and Alps stabilizers. 

If/when you figure out how the ISO enter cutout needs to be adjusted, I will make it happen.  Thanks...

[emdude]

Looking at your layout, it appears to be the 2.75u Rshift that is having a problem.  Can you confirm?

Also, is it possible to flip alps stabilizers?  If so, we could rotate the caps lock key 180 degrees and have the stabilizer not mess with the poker cutout.  {w:1.75,_rs:180},"Caps Lock"

This would result in the following, would that work?

(Attachment Link)

As duynguyenle has pointed out, the stab inserts on Alps keys are not centered, so I don't believe it is possible to just flip the stab cutouts.  Here's a quick photo I took of a Caps Lock key:



It would probably be best just to exclude the Caps Lock stabilizer cutouts by default.  The key does not need it anyway and many Alps keyboards had nonstepped Caps Lock keys that were not stabilized (i.e. Focus and Northgate).

[swill]

Looking at your layout, it appears to be the 2.75u Rshift that is having a problem.  Can you confirm?

Also, is it possible to flip alps stabilizers?  If so, we could rotate the caps lock key 180 degrees and have the stabilizer not mess with the poker cutout.  {w:1.75,_rs:180},"Caps Lock"

This would result in the following, would that work?

(Attachment Link)

As duynguyenle has pointed out, the stab inserts on Alps keys are not centered, so I don't believe it is possible to just flip the stab cutouts.  Here's a quick photo I took of a Caps Lock key:

Show Image

It would probably be best just to exclude the Caps Lock stabilizer cutouts by default.  The key does not need it anyway and many Alps keyboards had nonstepped Caps Lock keys that were not stabilized (i.e. Focus and Northgate).

Hard for me to do that by default because it is technically a stabilized key (unless I just remove the 1.75u stabilized key option).  You can however remove that specific stabilizer very easily in a case by case basis by using a {_s:0} option for that key.

[IBNobody]

Maybe this is a bug?



If I zero out the quantities, there is a $4.48 base charge.

[duynguyenle]

Maybe this is a bug?

Show Image

If I zero out the quantities, there is a $4.48 base charge.

Standard admin fees probably

[swill]

Maybe this is a bug?

Show Image

If I zero out the quantities, there is a $4.48 base charge.

I had not tried that.  :)

I can raise this with lasergist to see what they think of this.  Probably can be considered a bug, but does not seem like a major one since you won't be ordering anything if you buy that.  :P

[LifeIsOnTheWire]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but how do you add stab cutouts to 1.75u keys?

Do most people not run stabs on 1.75 keys?

[swill]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but how do you add stab cutouts to 1.75u keys?

Do most people not run stabs on 1.75 keys?

Cherry does not stabilize 1.75u keys, so there is no option for that because the keycaps don't support it.

Alps do run stabilizers on 1.75u keys, so a stabilizer will automatically be drawn for you in that case.

Does that answer your question?

[IBNobody]

I had not tried that. 

I can raise this with lasergist to see what they think of this.  Probably can be considered a bug, but does not seem like a major one since you won't be ordering anything if you buy that. 

It was something I was looking at when I saw that the order button included all the parts for a sandwich plate. I wanted to see what each plate was going to cost me individually. I wanted to make a judgement call on what it would cost me to cut out the other pieces. Thus, I zero'ed everything out. Maybe show an itemized quote?

The auto-quoting came in slightly higher than what I could get from their website or through e-mail. The quote for the top plate came in at ~$101. I paid $99 for a similar board with more holes than what was in that screenshot, and if I hacked the form fields on their website to accept sizes greater than 300mm, I was quoted $96.

Finally, I know the hole UI will solve this, but as of right now, the only way to get a plate with holes is to use the sandwich case option. That means we get the inner layers generated and quoted from LG as well as the top and bottom. I don't know about everybody else, but I would never pay what they are charging for an inner layer (especially when you need multiples). Does it make sense to quote those layers by default? Maybe a short term solution would be to add a sandwich case option that didn't include the inner layers?

[swill]

I had not tried that. 

I can raise this with lasergist to see what they think of this.  Probably can be considered a bug, but does not seem like a major one since you won't be ordering anything if you buy that. 

It was something I was looking at when I saw that the order button included all the parts for a sandwich plate. I wanted to see what each plate was going to cost me individually. I wanted to make a judgement call on what it would cost me to cut out the other pieces. Thus, I zero'ed everything out. Maybe show an itemized quote?

The auto-quoting came in slightly higher than what I could get from their website or through e-mail. The quote for the top plate came in at ~$101. I paid $99 for a similar board with more holes than what was in that screenshot, and if I hacked the form fields on their website to accept sizes greater than 300mm, I was quoted $96.

Finally, I know the hole UI will solve this, but as of right now, the only way to get a plate with holes is to use the sandwich case option. That means we get the inner layers generated and quoted from LG as well as the top and bottom. I don't know about everybody else, but I would never pay what they are charging for an inner layer (especially when you need multiples). Does it make sense to quote those layers by default? Maybe a short term solution would be to add a sandwich case option that didn't include the inner layers?

It does not make sense to add a new sandwich case type without inner layers because that is way too complicated for the problem it solves.  You can just not use the middle layers of the sandwich case and you are all set.

We are working on ways to bring the costs down, especially on the middle layers.  Right now lasergist does not know how much material is left after the cuts are made when quoting the plates.  This means that they currently can not optimize the calculation for shipping costs, so the quote is least accurate for those middle layers.   I am writing an algorithm to calculate the resulting surface area of every layer which I will be passing to lasergist's quoting api to get more accurate quotes. 

The pricing is not optimized yet.  We are actively working to get the pricing down, especially for middle layers...

[IBNobody]

Conceptually, wouldn't a top/bottom sandwich just require you to clone the top/bottom/inner code and then comment out the inner? Or is the code not optimized like that?

[swill]

Conceptually, wouldn't a top/bottom sandwich just require you to clone the top/bottom/inner code and then comment out the inner? Or is the code not optimized like that?

No, the UI is the hard part.  I have to have a new case type.  I have to handle it differently than (but the same) as the sandwich. 

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

[LifeIsOnTheWire]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but how do you add stab cutouts to 1.75u keys?

Do most people not run stabs on 1.75 keys?

Cherry does not stabilize 1.75u keys, so there is no option for that because the keycaps don't support it.

Alps do run stabilizers on 1.75u keys, so a stabilizer will automatically be drawn for you in that case.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, thanks a bunch.  That answers my question, and saves me some hassle. 

Also, thanks for making this tool.  Its a major help!

[IBNobody]

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

The part that I did not like was being presented with a quote for $200 when I only needed $100 worth of cuts. That initial sticker shock is a killjoy. Do you anticipate many people using LG to cut the inner layers out of steel plate?

[duynguyenle]

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

The part that I did not like was being presented with a quote for $200 when I only needed $100 worth of cuts. That initial sticker shock is a killjoy. Do you anticipate many people using LG to cut the inner layers out of steel plate?

Why can't you just put the quantity to zero for the sandwich layers and just order 1xtop and 1xbottom?

[swill]

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

The part that I did not like was being presented with a quote for $200 when I only needed $100 worth of cuts. That initial sticker shock is a killjoy. Do you anticipate many people using LG to cut the inner layers out of steel plate?

Easy, set Qty for those layers to 0 and you are all set. 

Yes, I expect people will buy middle layers from LG.  We will be working on pricing of those layers to make them more attractive.  I will also do a guide soon for how to get the best value for the middle layers when I have more time.  For example, you can already drop the price a lot by only cutting sides for two of the sides.

Example:




NOTE: I will likely change the negative numbers there to not have to account for kerf.  Right now you have to put a value less than 0 - kerf for it to completely remove the sides.

[swill]

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

The part that I did not like was being presented with a quote for $200 when I only needed $100 worth of cuts. That initial sticker shock is a killjoy. Do you anticipate many people using LG to cut the inner layers out of steel plate?

Why can't you just put the quantity to zero for the sandwich layers and just order 1xtop and 1xbottom?

You can. 

[IBNobody]

Why can't you just put the quantity to zero for the sandwich layers and just order 1xtop and 1xbottom?

That is what you have to do now, but does it make sense to auto quote the sandwich inner layers? Will more people really want rough edge* stacked stainless steel sheet metal for their inner layers as opposed to acrylic or wood or nothing?

My opinion is to set the tools up to default to what most people will want.

(* The lasering process naturally has rough edges when you stack multiple sheets due to the tapering effect of the cut. This happens because the laser is not completely perpendicular to the material face. It cuts at an angle slightly off of 90 degrees. One edge of the cut will be slightly longer. It is hard to see on thin material, but when you stack up multiple sheets, you can feel it. Depending on how the laser is on the gantry and how the material is loaded into the cutter. With SS, this effect can be even more annoying because it is hard to file down the case to remove the taper effect. If you want a smooth SS case, you are better off getting a large 10mm sheet cut or milled.)

[duynguyenle]

*what most people will want.

*Citation needed

I am aware of the limitations of laser cutting w.r.t to surface roughness on thicker plates. However, I would make the assumption that if you're competent enough to order plates to build your own keyboard, you would also be competent enough to spend 20 minutes with some sandpaper*

*Also citation needed 

[lasergist]

Maybe this is a bug?

Show Image

If I zero out the quantities, there is a $4.48 base charge.

I had not tried that.  :)

I can raise this with lasergist to see what they think of this.  Probably can be considered a bug, but does not seem like a major one since you won't be ordering anything if you buy that.  :P

Hi All,

We are really excited for this integration. Just fixed the zero value bug too. It was a bug caused by the shipping calculations - not a standard fee. There is no fixed amount in our pricing formula!

[IBNobody]

*what most people will want.

*Citation needed

Just look at what comes up on /r/mk Acrylic is the most popular sandwich middle.

[lasergist]

The auto-quoting came in slightly higher than what I could get from their website or through e-mail. The quote for the top plate came in at ~$101. I paid $99 for a similar board with more holes than what was in that screenshot, and if I hacked the form fields on their website to accept sizes greater than 300mm, I was quoted $96.

Huge question: How did you hack the form?!! 

Regarding pricing, a single plate indeed might cost slightly more (in some cases less) through the integration. Multiple plates though come significantly cheaper. As Will mentioned we are working a lot to reduce the cost - especially the shipping costs. The pricing formula is fine tuned towards keyboard plates and allows us to use more protective packaging and do some extra steps (like perfectly flattening the plates and some other finishing treatments). This sometimes increases the cost for each plate about a dollar, but in some cases it ends up actually cheaper.

More than anything we need the geekhack community input to make this better and as useful as possible. Please share any comments you have.


On another subject that @IBNobody mentioned regarding the finishing of the back side: it is a very good point. The shine up bath and the backside brushing options on www.lasergist.com are meant to treat this exact "problem" but those are not -yet- available through the integration.

[IBNobody]

Hi All,

We are really excited for this integration. Just fixed the zero value bug too. It was a bug caused by the shipping calculations - not a standard fee. There is no fixed amount in our pricing formula!

Thank you for the quick fix.

[lasergist]

Hi All,

We are really excited for this integration. Just fixed the zero value bug too. It was a bug caused by the shipping calculations - not a standard fee. There is no fixed amount in our pricing formula!

Thank you for the quick fix.

Thanks for noticing it!

[swill]

Huge question: How did you hack the form?!! 

You can hack the form by modifying the DOM for the input fields and changing this data-parsley-max="300" to a larger number.  This can be done with something like Chrome through the inspector.  I just did it to test and prove it can be done...

[IBNobody]

Huge question: How did you hack the form?!! 

Regarding pricing, a single plate indeed might cost slightly more (in some cases less) through the integration. Multiple plates though come significantly cheaper. As Will mentioned we are working a lot to reduce the cost - especially the shipping costs. The pricing formula is fine tuned towards keyboard plates and allows us to use more protective packaging and do some extra steps (like perfectly flattening the plates and some other finishing treatments). This sometimes increases the cost for each plate about a dollar, but in some cases it ends up actually cheaper.

More than anything we need the geekhack community input to make this better and as useful as possible. Please share any comments you have.


On another subject that @IBNobody mentioned regarding the finishing of the back side: it is a very good point. The shine up bath and the backside brushing options on www.lasergist.com are meant to treat this exact "problem" but those are not -yet- available through the integration.

I "hacked" the form by figuring out where the 300mm limit was using Chrome's inspection window and changing it to 500. It let me submit the form with my 470mm long board and get a $96 quote. I took that as a ballpark quote and used it to compare the cost between what you could give me and my other options. You guys won. When I placed my order (1210908), though, I did so using the recommended method of emailing you the SVG.

I won't have to do this again to get a ballpark quote next time I order thanks to Swill's tool, but I will still need to submit my files to you via email because I currently have holes in my keyboard that are not present on Swill's raw output.

Edit: Here is the layout.

http://svgur.com/s/Ae

[lasergist]

Huge question: How did you hack the form?!! 

Regarding pricing, a single plate indeed might cost slightly more (in some cases less) through the integration. Multiple plates though come significantly cheaper. As Will mentioned we are working a lot to reduce the cost - especially the shipping costs. The pricing formula is fine tuned towards keyboard plates and allows us to use more protective packaging and do some extra steps (like perfectly flattening the plates and some other finishing treatments). This sometimes increases the cost for each plate about a dollar, but in some cases it ends up actually cheaper.

More than anything we need the geekhack community input to make this better and as useful as possible. Please share any comments you have.


On another subject that @IBNobody mentioned regarding the finishing of the back side: it is a very good point. The shine up bath and the backside brushing options on www.lasergist.com are meant to treat this exact "problem" but those are not -yet- available through the integration.

I "hacked" the form by figuring out where the 300mm limit was using Chrome's inspection window and changing it to 500. It let me submit the form with my 470mm long board and get a $96 quote. I took that as a ballpark quote and used it to compare the cost between what you could give me and my other options. You guys won. When I placed my order (1210908), though, I did so using the recommended method of emailing you the SVG.

I won't have to do this again to get a ballpark quote next time I order thanks to Swill's tool, but I will still need to submit my files to you via email because I currently have holes in my keyboard that are not present on Swill's raw output.

Hmmm... this would fall back to the AISI 304 / 1.0mm calculation formula which is basically invalid. Good that you pointed this out and thanks Will for confirming this.

[kawasaki161]

I have another feature request. Maybe cutouts for PCB mount cherry stabs with 5mm plates would be nice to have. I've got a rough example here, the cutouts are on the bigger side in this example, but I didn't want to have a plate I can't use as my first prototype. If everything goes to plan I'll have the plate next week, I should be able to correct and share the measurements by then.

Let me know how it goes.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Update: The guy who told me he would make it for me apparently spent 2 weeks sourcing the right acrylic (still not finding any), after I told him to just do it in black because I need it soon he asked me what soon meant. I answered 8 days max. (formulor, the german ponoko, says their stuff can take up to 8 days) and he told me this isn't even close to what he could do and that he would take waaay longer (WTF).
I ordered through formulor now (rip 50 bucks holy ****) and hope my file didn't get messed up while I converted it. I could have already assembled the keyboard, but it seems like wasting my time (with no communication whatsoever) was the path I chose -.-

Will report back on the cutout as soon as I have the plate 

[swill]

I have another feature request. Maybe cutouts for PCB mount cherry stabs with 5mm plates would be nice to have. I've got a rough example here, the cutouts are on the bigger side in this example, but I didn't want to have a plate I can't use as my first prototype. If everything goes to plan I'll have the plate next week, I should be able to correct and share the measurements by then.

Let me know how it goes.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Update: The guy who told me he would make it for me apparently spent 2 weeks sourcing the right acrylic (still not finding any), after I told him to just do it in black because I need it soon he asked me what soon meant. I answered 8 days max. (formulor, the german ponoko, says their stuff can take up to 8 days) and he told me this isn't even close to what he could do and that he would take waaay longer (WTF).
I ordered through formulor now (rip 50 bucks holy ****) and hope my file didn't get messed up while I converted it. I could have already assembled the keyboard, but it seems like wasting my time (with no communication whatsoever) was the path I chose -.-

Will report back on the cutout as soon as I have the plate 

Haha, ya sorry that was such a nightmare.  Hopefully everything goes smoothly. 

[duynguyenle]

*what most people will want.

*Citation needed

Just look at what comes up on /r/mk Acrylic is the most popular sandwich middle.

True. But then again most of the posts on /r/mk is people asking whether the Corsair K70 or Razer keyboards are more suitable at making them a god at Counter Strike. 

Never been really drawn into the multilayered acrylic look tbh, you end up having to add a rather substantial bezel for the screw holes and it just ends up looking really tacky 

[IBNobody]

True. But then again most of the posts on /r/mk is people asking whether the Corsair K70 or Razer keyboards are more suitable at making them a god at Counter Strike. 

Never been really drawn into the multilayered acrylic look tbh, you end up having to add a rather substantial bezel for the screw holes and it just ends up looking really tacky 

Sure, sure, and I agree. But the one thing that /r/mk does well is have a lot of pictures. Layered sheet metal is not popular. Should it be the default?

[swill]

True. But then again most of the posts on /r/mk is people asking whether the Corsair K70 or Razer keyboards are more suitable at making them a god at Counter Strike. 

Never been really drawn into the multilayered acrylic look tbh, you end up having to add a rather substantial bezel for the screw holes and it just ends up looking really tacky 

Sure, sure, and I agree. But the one thing that /r/mk does well is have a lot of pictures. Layered sheet metal is not popular. Should it be the default?

Yes it should be the default. It is the materials we have available right now. If someone is going to build a case they will likely want all the layers. If some are set to zero and others are not it adds more confusion. "why are these zero and the others aren't? "

I think the functionality is correctly presented right now.

[regack]

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

The part that I did not like was being presented with a quote for $200 when I only needed $100 worth of cuts. That initial sticker shock is a killjoy. Do you anticipate many people using LG to cut the inner layers out of steel plate?

Why can't you just put the quantity to zero for the sandwich layers and just order 1xtop and 1xbottom?

You can. 

Swill, so first off, this is a REALLY REALLY AMAZING feature added to your already great toolbox!  Unfortunately, as I was trying this (set one middle layer to QTY 0) and I get an error.


It's not specific, just... 'Error'.




I was also thinking, is it possible to add the ability to change the size of the holes on the bottom plate through your tool.  I'd love to spec the bottom plate to 3mm and have the holes drilled a little smaller so I can tap them for screws coming in from the top.

[swill]

Trust me, it is not worth it, especially when you can just not use the middle layers and you get the same functionality.  I am not sure why we would want to add such an option when you can just not use a couple layers and you get the same thing.

The part that I did not like was being presented with a quote for $200 when I only needed $100 worth of cuts. That initial sticker shock is a killjoy. Do you anticipate many people using LG to cut the inner layers out of steel plate?

Why can't you just put the quantity to zero for the sandwich layers and just order 1xtop and 1xbottom?

You can. 

Swill, so first off, this is a REALLY REALLY AMAZING feature added to your already great toolbox!  Unfortunately, as I was trying this (set one middle layer to QTY 0) and I get an error.


It's not specific, just... 'Error'.

(Attachment Link)


I was also thinking, is it possible to add the ability to change the size of the holes on the bottom plate through your tool.  I'd love to spec the bottom plate to 3mm and have the holes drilled a little smaller so I can tap them for screws coming in from the top.

Nice to see you around here regack. 

Yes, I know there are some intermittent problems tonight. Someone let me know on Twitter earlier. I will look at it later tonight after the lil guy is asleep. I think some work was done on the API earlier, but I will reproduce and fix tonight if it is my app.

Regarding the different holes, that is short term road map. I don't have a definite timeline, but some planning has been done.

How it will probably be implemented: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.msg2231247#msg2231247

More details on some of the options that will be available are here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.msg2230858#msg2230858

I can explain better later if you have questions.

[swill]

I'd love to spec the bottom plate to 3mm and have the holes drilled a little smaller so I can tap them for screws coming in from the top.

This is basically what I did. I tapped all layers for mine, but the middle are wood, so very forgiving. Top and bottom tap would be perfect.

I did 1.5mm for top and 3mm bottom plate in brass and it is great.

One thing to consider with a 3mm bottom plate, there will be no bending it with your hands if it is not perfectly flat. Mine is pretty good, but not perfect.

1.5mm or 2mm of steel would be enough if you are worried about a solid tap.

Don't take this as a reason not to do it. It is a great idea and I am happy with my decision. Just figured I would pass on the experience.

[IBNobody]

Lasergist has a recommended min hole size for various plate thicknesses. 1.5mm has a recommended 4mm min diameter hole.

Min. hole diameter for 1.0mm thickness: 2.5mm
Min. hole diameter for 1.5mm thickness: 3.0mm
Min. hole diameter for 2.0mm thickness: 4.0mm
Min. hole diameter for 3.0mm thickness: 6.5mm

http://lasergist.com/design-guidelines/

Should your tool flag for that?