Author Topic: Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?  (Read 4582 times)

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Offline Xuan

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 21:48:23 »
After purchasing this Wang keyboard, it turned out not to have Omrons as thought but Complicated White Alps.

Some pictures.


Mini-Din plug


Wang!


Translation: "Remove the sticker and bad things gonna happen"


No XT/AT switch.


Ugh! L shaped enter. Double shots. Blue Alt is not double shot, but nice.


Looking good.


Switch porn!



The problem is; the keyboard isn't mint state but looks good enough, nevertheless it's not working as I expected.
The keys get stuck or are too stiff if I don't hit'em right in the center, even the smallest deviation seems to be necessary to stick the keys.
I can also feel some friction there, but without the key caps the switches feel better.

This is my first fully mechanical keyboard (if you don't consider BS to be) I don't think the legendary Alps switches are supposed to be this way.
Am I going to have to grease them? Any advice?
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:27:23 by Xuan »

Offline EverythingIBM

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:09:37 »
They're too wangy, you need more chic chic chicony.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Oqsy

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:29:10 »
I've heard lots of strong arguments *against* lubrication of ALPS, but very few arguments for it.  

My suggestion would be to:

1.  Remove all key caps, get rid of ALL the crud inside, open the case, do the same.  

2.  Now disassemble the switches, plop the sliders in a large container or sink (with the little trap so nothing goes down the drain!!), mix in dish soap or simple green.  (Toss in your key caps for good measure, they are most likely dusty and grimy from years of use anyway).

3.  Agitate by hand, scrub (with a gentle sponge, cloth, etc) and rinse each slider individually and place on a large towel in their operating orientation (to let the water drip down onto the towel from the hollow inside).   Do the same with the key caps, and set them aside until time for reassembly.

4.  Get some q-tips and wipe the sliders dry if you know you're too impatient to wait for them to air-dry.  

4(b). Optional, but recommended:  Purchase and have ready some 303 Aerospace Protectant.  Soak the cleaned sliders in the 303 (can be used sparingly to soak or spray, use your best judgment to get the most for your money).  This will "condition" the plastic back to a nice silky surface and undo some of the harsh brittle nature aquired from age / wear.  Wipe and dry *ALL* 303 from the sliders without rinsing.

5.  At the same time you're soaking your sliders, put the springs and tactile/click leaves (if you have them) into a container of Brasso.

6.  Allow them 10-20 minutes to soak, and then remove and begin wiping off the Brasso with a clean but old and worthless towel / rag.  Be VERY careful not to bend or mangle springs or leaves even slightly, as it can disrupt the function of the switch.

7.  With a second towel / rag, finish wiping the springs / leaves clean of ALL Brasso residue.  A q-tip will come in handy again, especially on the springs.  

8.  Place springs / leaves out in a safe place to air dry as well in case there's any remaining dampness to them (there really shouldn't be if you did a good job on #7).

9.  Reassemble switches.  

10.  Enjoy your restored ALPS switches!  They should be pretty darn close to factory condition assuming they were only dirty / gritty and not damaged before starting the process.

11. ...

12. Profit.
[sigpic]Currently in use: Rosewill RK9000 and CH DT225[/sigpic]
"Private misfortunes make for public welfare."

Offline Oqsy

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:34:53 »
303 Aerospace Protectant mentioned above.  I don't promise this to be the best price, but this is at least the product mentioned.  I see on that site that they now make 303 Wipes, which would probably be very nice for this application.
[sigpic]Currently in use: Rosewill RK9000 and CH DT225[/sigpic]
"Private misfortunes make for public welfare."

Offline Xuan

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:55:23 »
Doh! The model is 725, too late for the title.

So you don't recommend me to lubricate my wang (just anticipating some replies).



Thank you very much for the instructions I'm gonna try to follow them, but I'm gonna need time and patience (it will have to wait a few weeks, exams period now).
I don't think I will find that product but I'll try to replace it for some similar stuff, I'll need to research about it.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:57:27 by Xuan »

Offline audioave10

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 22:58:51 »
I do know a store that sells wang lube.
(lots of toys too)
DECK Legend "Toxic" - SOLD
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new: MechanicalEagle Z77 RGB/Blues

Offline EverythingIBM

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 01:28:27 »
Quote from: audioave10;202464
I do know a store that sells wang lube.
(lots of toys too)


I like toys! There's woody and buzz with mr. 300PL. Too bad you can't see it with my G70.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline microsoft windows

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 07:37:15 »
There's an IBM monitor just like that one in the picture at work except it's enormous. I might get it some time.
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Offline ch_123

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 07:40:01 »
Alps actually lubricated the sliders on their switches in the factory, but obviously it would wear off over time. I might try recreating it on my SGI keyboard.

Offline TexasFlood

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 08:08:27 »
Quote from: ch_123;202534
Alps actually lubricated the sliders on their switches in the factory, but obviously it would wear off over time. I might try recreating it on my SGI keyboard.

Do you know what lube was used?

Offline ch_123

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 08:19:12 »
Quote
Stem of Green/Blue/Orange were overcoated with dried lubricant like RO-59.


I'd assume that dried powder lubricant would do the job.

Offline chimera15

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 09:34:35 »
Quote from: ch_123;202551
I'd assume that dried powder lubricant would do the job.

Powdered lubricant on alps switches doesn't work.  I've tried graphite for instance, and it just makes it worse.  A good light oil is the best I think.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline TexasFlood

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 09:46:56 »
Quote from: chimera15;202573
Powdered lubricant on alps switches doesn't work.  I've tried graphite for instance, and it just makes it worse.  A good light oil is the best I think.

Wonder if Teflon (PTFE) Powder would be any better?  I must admit though, the idea of potentially inhaling the stuff scares me a bit.

Offline Mental Hobbit

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 11:17:55 »
Quote from: Oqsy;202458
My suggestion would be to:
[...]


Sounds like a good plan to me, that's mostly what I plan to do with several of my Alps boards in fall. Except of the 303, which I didn't know, got to look into that.

I'm higly sceptical to lubricating switches.

Quote from: ch_123;202534
Alps actually lubricated the sliders on their switches in the factory, but obviously it would wear off over time.


I doubt they did that with all switches. All boards with white complicated Alps I've seen were in very good to perfect condition. All boards with later Alps switches were more or less scratchy wrecks. I suspect they introduced lubrication to make up for inferior materials at some time.
Typing on blues.

Offline ch_123

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 11:34:24 »
As I pointed out above, it was on the Green, Orange and Blue Alps switches, which were the predecessors of the Yellow, Black and White Alps respectively.

Sandy, my source for the above, mentioned that these older sliders were made of a different material, so you could well be onto something there.

Offline Oqsy

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 17:48:11 »
Those of you with "scratchy" ALPS that don't mind ALPS maintenance should really consider the 303.  I swear by the stuff on all surfaces made of plastic, vinyl, etc.  It sounds like Armor All bullcrap, but this stuff is the real deal.  Silky is the best way I can describe the surface after application and wiping.  No grease, no film...  it seems to "soften" the feel of the surface (in addition to adding UV protection [not needed on switches obviously, but perfect for a case you want to protect from yellowing]).  

You know, the more I think about it, we just need a geekhack store.  A one-stop shop built into the site where you can get things like RO-59, 303, replacement switches, bolts / nuts for the bolt mod, controllers, key caps, cables, tools, keyboard feet, mouse pads, wrist rests, GH space savers, GH keys, GH Tshirts, GH calendar (maybe two, one that's more classy with key caps on and fully assembled, and a more "risque" version with caps pulled, switches exposed, and maybe even some close up PCB shots for the real hardcore enthusiasts.)  It could be really cool and fun, and of course wouldn't have to involve iMav necessarily as long as he was willing to put the GH name on the store and give whoever operates it the ability to run off the GH domain :D

Oh well, probably more likely to see a miniguru than a GH store, but it's a dream worth having :D
[sigpic]Currently in use: Rosewill RK9000 and CH DT225[/sigpic]
"Private misfortunes make for public welfare."

Offline Lenny_Nero

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 19:39:03 »
I have had good results with this silicon spray stuff (sure I have said about it before) I got a load of from a body shop I did some stuff for.
They could not use it because someone did not think to check if spraying loads of silicon around near stuff to be painted was a good idea or not.

Its for working with moldings, plastic hinges and that sort of thing you get with trim parts, they also say its ok for cleaning dash boards and the like, and reading that last post with the "Armor All bullcrap" line I wonder if its something like it, because I never used it on trim as it was just too slippy, did not leave a wet or slick finish, unless you sprayed loads, but for the first day or two, unless you really worked it in things were too slippy.

I cant find any here ATM, but its not really got a name IIRC, they are just a white can with some writing down the side.
Filco Zero, Viglen DFK 2020UKF104, DTK SPK-102a, Panasonic Biz 500
Ducky 1087 Chicony KB-5191, G80-1856HQMGB Cherry G80-1000HFD and others
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Offline sealcouch

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 21:46:15 »
heh. Wang.

Offline Xuan

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Wang 724 - White Alps - Stiff keys?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 14 July 2010, 23:17:18 »
Quote from: sealcouch;202802
heh. Wang.


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