NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[Leslieann]

Just something I found.
You may want to add a note that if you don't want holes, 0 causes an error, however you can leave it blank and it will work.

[swill]

I forgot to mention that I was using type 2 cutout as well when I said the middle hole is broken!

ya, I did some testing on the way home from work and I now better understand the problem.  I am thinking about how to solve this once and for all...

[swill]

Just something I found.
You may want to add a note that if you don't want holes, 0 causes an error, however you can leave it blank and it will work.

I will work on a solution and hopefully I can have a solution in place by the weekend.  Its only the poker plate that breaks with the middle (default) switch type.  Both other switch types work with the poker case.

[swill]

BIG UPDATE, MAJOR FIXES!!!

I have rolled a pretty major set of changes.  As a few of you have pointed out there were some bugs with the way I was drawing the SVG that would result in lines of different polygons crossing each other.  BBS would throw a bunch of error and basically say "what are you dumb, go fix your ****" when you uploaded those files.

I am now going through every polygon that I draw and I am checking if there are boundary crossings and it will do a union operation on the polygons if there are.   I then take the outermost edge of the plate and do a difference with all of the internal polygons to make sure that none of the inside polygons cross the outer boundary (which can happen with the poker case).

These are the problems fixed:

• I now support overlapping keys again like the old tool did (both capslock and off-center stem spacebars).
• I now fully support the MX + Alps switch cutout with the Poker case (center hole now works correctly)

The tool is slightly slower, but it is not a huge difference. 

Thanks for the bug reports everyone.  I really appreciate that you guys telling me when you run into issues so I can fix them for everyone...

Perhaps this has been already answered, but I didn't find anything!
In the old version of the tool, I could "stack" switches (for example a normal CapsLock and a stepped one) and the generator would ignore the superfluous lines and make the correct cutout for both switches. Same for spacebar cutouts.
Also the middle hole for a poker mount 60% is broken in the same way.
Below is the layout I tested with.
Thank you for your great job!

Code: [Select]

["~\n`","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=",{w:2},"Backspace"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\"],
[{w:1.75},"Caps Lock",{x:-1.75,g:true,w:1.25,w2:1.75,l:true},"",{x:0.5,g:false},"A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:6.25},"",{x:-3},"",{x:2,w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Menu",{w:1.25},"Ctrl"]


[suicidal_orange]

Updates sound great and this latest version is still much quicker than the old version   The black on trans example above does not work well with the dark theme though - had to tilt my screen to work out what it was!

[swill]

Updates sound great and this latest version is still much quicker than the old version   The black on trans example above does not work well with the dark theme though - had to tilt my screen to work out what it was!

Haha, ya good point. 

[chzel]

Great, thanks swill!
I'll test tomorrow!
Just another detail, nit-picking actually.
When making the poker plate with a stepped CapsLock, the switch cutout almost touches the screw opening and gets blown when lasercutting (at least in my case). If you could make the screw hole a tad smaller, It would be great. Inserting the screw would still work with the hole 1mm shorter.

[swill]

Another update tonight!!!

I have added support for the asymmetrical 6u space bar for all stabilizer styles.

Here is an example with one of my custom layouts.



As you can see, I have also added the ability to modify the cut line color.  I have noticed that some laser cutters are picky about what colors are used in the SVG.  If your cutter is picky about what the cut line color is, you can specify a new cut line color using this field now.



I also added the ability to download an EPS file in case that is a download format that is interesting to anyone...

There is an entry on Deskthority's Wiki with all known spacebars dimensions: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar_dimensions

6× spacebars exists in 3 varieties, but IIRC the most common is the asymmetrical one.

6 units (114mm wide, 3 keymounts, 57mm and 38mm apart)

Three keymounts, one middle mount 0.5 units (9.525mm) right from centre, left 3 units (57.15mm) and right 2 units (38.1mm) apart from middle mount. The stabilizer center-to-center is 95mm.

mounts from left to right at

• 0.5 units
• 3.5 units
• 5.5 units

I have made it 4.5mm in diameter rather than 5mm.  I don't want to push it too much and if it breaks through its not the end of the world I don't think...

Great, thanks swill!
I'll test tomorrow!
Just another detail, nit-picking actually.
When making the poker plate with a stepped CapsLock, the switch cutout almost touches the screw opening and gets blown when lasercutting (at least in my case). If you could make the screw hole a tad smaller, It would be great. Inserting the screw would still work with the hole 1mm shorter.

[VinnyCordeiro]

Yay! 6× space bars!

[swill]

Updates sound great and this latest version is still much quicker than the old version   The black on trans example above does not work well with the dark theme though - had to tilt my screen to work out what it was!

Fixed!  Now you can output drawings in whatever color you want. 

[swill]

CUSTOM POKER HOLES + MORE...

I have done a bunch of changes in this update:

• You can now specify the size of the poker holes + slots you want.  This allows you to reduce the size to say 2.5mm and then use an M2 screw to mount the switch plate directly to the case with a standoff between.
• Added an "advanced" section for more technical options to keep the ui less cluttered.
• Fixed some issues that existed when setting the Kerf.
• Fixed some numeric validation issues.

Enjoy...

[VinnyCordeiro]

CUSTOM POKER HOLES + MORE...

I have done a bunch of changes in this update:

• You can now specify the size of the poker holes + slots you want.  This allows you to reduce the size to say 2.5mm and then use an M2 screw to mount the switch plate directly to the case with a standoff between.
• Fixed some issues that existed when setting the Kerf.
• Fixed some numeric validation issues.

Enjoy...

That's very useful! Thanks!

[chzel]

You're great swill!
The speed at which you implement suggestions is phenomenal!
Thanks!

[swill]

You're great swill!
The speed at which you implement suggestions is phenomenal!
Thanks!

Ya I have had a bit of time recently and have been getting into it again. Now you can set the poker hole size to whatever you want, so I set the default back to 5mm.

Been trying to get my head around supporting rotated clusters of keys to support layout like the ergodox. Soon enough.

[KHAANNN]

Hi swill

I use Tinkercad to get the plates ready for 3d-printing, I see now that the STL option is no longer provided, why is this // is it coming back?

Tried the .SVG one, however the dimensions are not compatible with Tinkercad out of the box, also for some reason all the switch cutouts were missing when I imported it

Going to try whether I can find a lightweight CAD program to convert the SVG to STL now, however, it would be great if the original functionality were restored

[KHAANNN]

I've tried LibreCad/FreeCad and temporarily gave up on the idea for now, it's probably possible with FreeCAD to convert the svg lines to a face and then a 3d object, export that object, import it to Tinkercad, yet the UI to too cryptic for an outsider

It would be great if the .STL is bought back, I also have no idea why TinkerCad interprets the .SVG as a block shape, but even if it worked, I'm guessing converting inches to mm's would be required with the .SVG too - it's possible to import the SVG - but it's much larger than it's needs to be and there are no holes on it

Edit: Well after digging in more, I have a better understanding of many things, yet I still have no idea how to convert a bunch of lines to a 2d or 3d shape, improved my freecad skills, yet the osx version crashes when I try to convert selections to 2d/3d shapes - otherwise I was going to just convert all faces to 3d shapes, convert the holes to be actual holes and export it all as .stl, but that couldn't happen because of the crashes

[Leslieann]

What I did was download the svg, then tweak in Photoshop (fill in center, remove any extras), save as PNG, then use an online converter to convert it back to SVG (in monochrome), then import to Tinkercad.

It worked, but you do need to rescale it after because that gets lost.

[KHAANNN]

What I did was download the svg, then tweak in Photoshop (fill in center, remove any extras), save as PNG, then use an online converter to convert it back to SVG (in monochrome), then import to Tinkercad.

It worked, but you do need to rescale it after because that gets lost.

That's a great idea, thank you

I've tested several things in Affinity Designer to make Tinkercad interpret the cutouts as holes, however none-worked, going to PNG route sounds logical but I was also worried about possible scaling issues, but I'm guessing if the builder's feature set stays the same, I guess I will end up doing the same

An Inch/MM option would also be great for the builder, there used to be a warning before, now I'm not sure what's the unit

[swill]

Hi swill

I use Tinkercad to get the plates ready for 3d-printing, I see now that the STL option is no longer provided, why is this // is it coming back?

Tried the .SVG one, however the dimensions are not compatible with Tinkercad out of the box, also for some reason all the switch cutouts were missing when I imported it

Going to try whether I can find a lightweight CAD program to convert the SVG to STL now, however, it would be great if the original functionality were restored

I won't be adding back the ability to export an STL because I am only working in 2D now instead of 3D.  I knew it was only a matter of time before someone wanted the STL format.  I will create a YouTube video for how to convert the current SVG my tool exports to an STL file for you.  I can probably get that video done for you tomorrow night.  It takes about 3 or 4 minutes to do (depending on the complexity of your plate), but it will at least get you what you need...

[swill]

What I did was download the svg, then tweak in Photoshop (fill in center, remove any extras), save as PNG, then use an online converter to convert it back to SVG (in monochrome), then import to Tinkercad.

It worked, but you do need to rescale it after because that gets lost.

That's a great idea, thank you

I've tested several things in Affinity Designer to make Tinkercad interpret the cutouts as holes, however none-worked, going to PNG route sounds logical but I was also worried about possible scaling issues, but I'm guessing if the builder's feature set stays the same, I guess I will end up doing the same

An Inch/MM option would also be great for the builder, there used to be a warning before, now I'm not sure what's the unit

All units are in MM as before...

[KHAANNN]

Hi swill

I use Tinkercad to get the plates ready for 3d-printing, I see now that the STL option is no longer provided, why is this // is it coming back?

Tried the .SVG one, however the dimensions are not compatible with Tinkercad out of the box, also for some reason all the switch cutouts were missing when I imported it

Going to try whether I can find a lightweight CAD program to convert the SVG to STL now, however, it would be great if the original functionality were restored

I won't be adding back the ability to export an STL because I am only working in 2D now instead of 3D.  I knew it was only a matter of time before someone wanted the STL format.  I will create a YouTube video for how to convert the current SVG my tool exports to an STL file for you.  I can probably get that video done for you tomorrow night.  It takes about 3 or 4 minutes to do (depending on the complexity of your plate), but it will at least get you what you need...

Thanks, that would be awesome

Without knowing much about the formats, providing a Solid SVG might be a better long term solution, a pre-applied version of Leslieann's method as an output option, preferably in mm's (Like an 2D filled SVG)

Since the current SVG only consists of the outlines, it requires processing as you also pointed out and many of the CAD programs either doesn't exist on OSX, or bugged like FreeCAD I tested (Otherwise I think I was onto something :)

I guess all of these might also be possible by manually editing or programmatically processing the SVG too (for people like me that don't like using software much) - the SVG is pretty readable - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22579508/subtract-one-circle-from-another-in-svg - going to try to apply some subtraction methods in the meantime

[KHAANNN]

What I did was download the svg, then tweak in Photoshop (fill in center, remove any extras), save as PNG, then use an online converter to convert it back to SVG (in monochrome), then import to Tinkercad.

It worked, but you do need to rescale it after because that gets lost.

That's a great idea, thank you

I've tested several things in Affinity Designer to make Tinkercad interpret the cutouts as holes, however none-worked, going to PNG route sounds logical but I was also worried about possible scaling issues, but I'm guessing if the builder's feature set stays the same, I guess I will end up doing the same

An Inch/MM option would also be great for the builder, there used to be a warning before, now I'm not sure what's the unit

All units are in MM as before...

It's probably an issue with Tinkercad once again - indeed they are MM

http://stackoverflow.com/a/22581434/914546

This method works by the way, it's pretty easy to apply too, I visually verify the plate, however Tinkercad reports the SVG as empty, I guess I can solve that issue one way or another, maybe import this filled SVG to a CAD program and process it somehow / maybe convert to .STL

By the way, are the switch 0.2mm switch cutout stroke-width's supposed to be extracted / or included in the plate? (I'm guessing 99% it's extraction)

Edit: Only browsers and GIMP recognises the mask syntax/method I used, Affinity Designer / CAD programs don't recognise it, so I probably eased the first photoshop step in Leslieann's method, I could export this as PNG, re-convert to SVG etc. but I won't risk losing details TL;DR: Awaiting your video
Edit 2: Here is the method with the plate output SVG: http://jsfiddle.net/9hst146u/ (only recognised at web and gimp)
Edit 3: The SVG to PNG to SVG conversion produces wobbled cutouts, so it doesn't work (used the first result online tool)

[trauring]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

[chzel]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

Even generating a CSV with coordinates of the center of the switch cutouts would be helpful, along with those of mounting holes and plate outline. Origin could be anywhere outside the plate, or preferably at the lower left corner of the plate (or at the intersection of the projection of the two sides, left and bottom)-I don't know if what I said makes sense...

[chzel]

Also something I forgot earlier, when designing a Poker plate could you add the option to insert the hole next to the CapsLock for the LED?
Some people might need it!

[KHAANNN]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

Even generating a CSV with coordinates of the center of the switch cutouts would be helpful, along with those of mounting holes and plate outline. Origin could be anywhere outside the plate, or preferably at the lower left corner of the plate (or at the intersection of the projection of the two sides, left and bottom)-I don't know if what I said makes sense... :eek: :'(

While trying to convert SVG to STL/solid-SVG - I had a chance to inspect things

You can easily generate the information you want, just open the .SVG with a text editor, it's a readable XML document, there are switches+~10 entities, you will easily spot the switch cutouts polygon's - average those dots and you get the center for the switches

I failed to convert the SVG to STL today, awaiting your video swill :)

[swill]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

Even generating a CSV with coordinates of the center of the switch cutouts would be helpful, along with those of mounting holes and plate outline. Origin could be anywhere outside the plate, or preferably at the lower left corner of the plate (or at the intersection of the projection of the two sides, left and bottom)-I don't know if what I said makes sense...

While trying to convert SVG to STL/solid-SVG - I had a chance to inspect things

You can easily generate the information you want, just open the .SVG with a text editor, it's a readable XML document, there are switches+~10 entities, you will easily spot the switch cutouts polygon's - average those dots and you get the center for the switches

I failed to convert the SVG to STL today, awaiting your video swill

I will take a couple minutes at work this morning to create a video for you. 

[swill]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

I should be able to do this.  Basically I would be creating the PCB footprint, but none of the matrix.  I will look into this for you.

[swill]

Also something I forgot earlier, when designing a Poker plate could you add the option to insert the hole next to the CapsLock for the LED?
Some people might need it!

I don't own a Poker, I have just been working off other people's specs.  Do you know the exact measurement and size where the LED hole would be needed?

[VinnyCordeiro]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

I should be able to do this.  Basically I would be creating the PCB footprint, but none of the matrix.  I will look into this for you.

I was talking with a friend last week exactly about that. It shouldn't be that difficult to program something like that. The main question that remains is which programs you are going to support. KiCad seems a natural choice; Eagle would be another. Altium, perhaps?

For Eagle, which is my design CAD of choice (although I'm thinking to migrate to Altium), you just have to make a script to do something like that:

Code: [Select]

GRID <MM/INCH>
MOVE <name of the component> (<X coordinate> <Y coordinate>)

and repeat MOVE command for all components until the last one is placed.

[swill]

Here is a simple video for creating an STL from the SVG generated by my tool.  This should re-enable all of the the 3D printers out there who are affected by me switching to only 2D renderings.

[swill]

Concerning the PCB generation, I think it would be a huge help just to generate a PCB layout with the holes in the right places for the switches, and matching holes/pads for the diodes and LEDs that are connected to the switches. Leave out the routing from the switches right now, as that is complicated. Just having a PCB layout with the holes in the correct place that matches the plate design would allow many more people to design their own keyboard layouts.

I should be able to do this.  Basically I would be creating the PCB footprint, but none of the matrix.  I will look into this for you.

I was talking with a friend last week exactly about that. It shouldn't be that difficult to program something like that. The main question that remains is which programs you are going to support. KiCad seems a natural choice; Eagle would be another. Altium, perhaps?

For Eagle, which is my design CAD of choice (although I'm thinking to migrate to Altium), you just have to make a script to do something like that:

Code: [Select]

GRID <MM/INCH>
MOVE <name of the component> (<X coordinate> <Y coordinate>)

and repeat MOVE command for all components until the last one is placed.

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

[KHAANNN]

Here is a simple video for creating an STL from the SVG generated by my tool.  This should re-enable all of the the 3D printers out there who are affected by me switching to only 2D renderings.

Thanks a lot for the video, I really really appreciate it <3

The osx version of FreeCAD is extremely bugged tho, it fails at the union operation, It also crashes at most extrude operations, I guess I will re-try at my attic windows setup after I wake up, I was completely unaware of the union/cut operations

Edit: It seems the circles are the cause of the crashes, anything that includes them fails - I'm sure it's osx or FreeCAD 0.1.4-only (brew's version), at least I hope
Edit 2: When I remove the circles, the method works on osx, I guess I'm going to have to manually place those 60% screw holes

[swill]

Here is a simple video for creating an STL from the SVG generated by my tool.  This should re-enable all of the the 3D printers out there who are affected by me switching to only 2D renderings.

Thanks a lot for the video, I really really appreciate it <3

The osx version of FreeCAD is extremely bugged tho, it fails at the union operation, It also crashes at most extrude operations, I guess I will re-try at my attic windows setup after I wake up, I was completely unaware of the union/cut operations

Edit: It seems the circles are the cause of the crashes, anything that includes them fails - I'm sure it's osx or FreeCAD 0.1.4-only (brew's version), at least I hope
Edit 2: When I remove the circles, the method works on osx, I guess I'm going to have to manually place those 60% screw holes

Make sure you are working with a recent SVG generated by my tool.  I changed the poker holes to be drawn as polygons.  I have not tried with a sandwich case yet.  I can make them polygons as well if that helps.  I will test that now.

I just successfully exported a poker plate to an STL without problems.

EDIT: I just tested with a sandwich case and yes, the holes (circles) cause a problem.  I will change them to polygons tonight when I get home and that will solve the problem.  Make sure the Poker layout you are using is using a recent SVG export because that case now uses all polygons.

[KHAANNN]

Good to know, thanks a lot, indeed mine is 5 days old (60%)

Once again, thanks a lot for the tool and all your help, it enables me to build my optimal layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/9a60939ad71519c14d6208467ffa9f76 that would otherwise be practically impossible - or very challenging to say the least

[trauring]

Great. One thing to consider is to allow different layouts for switches, such as one like the ErgoDox which is reversible, and supports through-hole diodes in switch and outside, as well as surface-mount diodes, or one that supports RGB LEDs, etc.

You've done some great work researching the different plate cutouts needs to support different kinds of switches and stabs, and I guess this needs some similar research.

I should be able to do this.  Basically I would be creating the PCB footprint, but none of the matrix.  I will look into this for you.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

If you can output a file with XY coordinates of the position of the center of the switch, it can be used to generate a positioning script. And I don't think an SVG file would be helpful for PCB making, at least not with Eagle.

[swill]

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

If you can output a file with XY coordinates of the position of the center of the switch, it can be used to generate a positioning script. And I don't think an SVG file would be helpful for PCB making, at least not with Eagle.

Fair enough. I can produce the syntax you specified without too much difficulty. What file type is that?  How can I test it is working correctly?

[VinnyCordeiro]

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

If you can output a file with XY coordinates of the position of the center of the switch, it can be used to generate a positioning script. And I don't think an SVG file would be helpful for PCB making, at least not with Eagle.

Fair enough. I can produce the syntax you specified without too much difficulty. What file type is that?  How can I test it is working correctly?

You can do it in 2 ways: a script or an ULP (User Language Program). Both are plain text files, but distinct from each other.

An script is a simple sequence of comands, like the example I gave. An ULP is written in C-like syntax to perform more complex tasks. To test it you need to run them on Eagle, there are options for that on the menu.

[swill]

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

If you can output a file with XY coordinates of the position of the center of the switch, it can be used to generate a positioning script. And I don't think an SVG file would be helpful for PCB making, at least not with Eagle.

Fair enough. I can produce the syntax you specified without too much difficulty. What file type is that?  How can I test it is working correctly?

You can do it in 2 ways: a script or an ULP (User Language Program). Both are plain text files, but distinct from each other.

An script is a simple sequence of comands, like the example I gave. An ULP is written in C-like syntax to perform more complex tasks. To test it you need to run them on Eagle, there are options for that on the menu.

Thank, this is helpful.  I would probably start out with a script and see how that goes.  To start, I would probably just do the switch holes, led holes, diode holes and the center MX hole.  I think that would give me enough work to get started on this.

I don't expect this to be too hard given my current setup.  I have developed a lot of helper functions to be able to work in both relative and absolute space.  All of my cutouts are in relative space (eg: square 14mm switch cutout would be [(7, 7), (7, -7), (-7, -7), (-7, 7)] ), then when I loop over the keys and rows, I do something like points.Rel(center_point) which maps the relative points to the absolute coord system with center_point being the center of the switch cutout.  This makes it easy for me to map patterns of holes or lines or whatever into absolute space easily.

I need to get my head around how exactly I am adding value by doing this though.  I don't really see how just having this information helps anyone.  I guess its just a starting point for them to build their own matrix? 

[swill]

Good to know, thanks a lot, indeed mine is 5 days old (60%)

Once again, thanks a lot for the tool and all your help, it enables me to build my optimal layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/9a60939ad71519c14d6208467ffa9f76 that would otherwise be practically impossible - or very challenging to say the least

Nice.  Your layout is almost the same as mine.  This layout is the reason I even started looking at generating cad files programmatically.  This is the seed that planted what we have today.  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/81624cf57fa0cafb311f80727d4742d8

I have pushed an update into production that allows for the sandwich case to also be turned into an STL.  I have found that it is much faster if you do the following order:
- create faces
- union inside faces
- cut the inside out of the plate face
- then extrude the cut

In the video I have it as:
- create faces
- union inside faces
- extrude both face groups
- cut extruded solid

It is substantially faster to cut the faces before extruding.  figured I would make that note...

I have also found that, yes, the sandwich case works with holes.  However, the number of holes can change the behavior of the cut operation.  It failed on me with 14 holes in a 60% layout, but 4 holes works perfectly.  I did not test all possible intervals.

[KHAANNN]

For Tinkercad users, it might also be possible to import the holes as solid, and convert the holes to holes on Tinkercad - even if the holes don't get imported aligned to the plate during the secondary import, at least they would move together and getting one positioned would get them all positioned together
(On the other hand, even a single hole sometimes refuse to become a face/2D shape with FreeCAD, so this is not also a sure thing)

I started basic design with Tinkercad, and I have to say it's a very simple yet powerful tool (no precision tho) - compared to the open source and free cad software, I would rather use Tinkercad, I previously dismissed AutoCAD's free student edition for mac as it has a black-box licensing routine that seems disruptive, yet, now I really wonder how it compares in terms of approachability, consistency and feature-set

[skullydazed]

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

If you can output a file with XY coordinates of the position of the center of the switch, it can be used to generate a positioning script. And I don't think an SVG file would be helpful for PCB making, at least not with Eagle.

Fair enough. I can produce the syntax you specified without too much difficulty. What file type is that?  How can I test it is working correctly?

You can do it in 2 ways: a script or an ULP (User Language Program). Both are plain text files, but distinct from each other.

An script is a simple sequence of comands, like the example I gave. An ULP is written in C-like syntax to perform more complex tasks. To test it you need to run them on Eagle, there are options for that on the menu.

Thank, this is helpful.  I would probably start out with a script and see how that goes.  To start, I would probably just do the switch holes, led holes, diode holes and the center MX hole.  I think that would give me enough work to get started on this.

I don't expect this to be too hard given my current setup.  I have developed a lot of helper functions to be able to work in both relative and absolute space.  All of my cutouts are in relative space (eg: square 14mm switch cutout would be [(7, 7), (7, -7), (-7, -7), (-7, 7)] ), then when I loop over the keys and rows, I do something like points.Rel(center_point) which maps the relative points to the absolute coord system with center_point being the center of the switch cutout.  This makes it easy for me to map patterns of holes or lines or whatever into absolute space easily.

I need to get my head around how exactly I am adding value by doing this though.  I don't really see how just having this information helps anyone.  I guess its just a starting point for them to build their own matrix?

I've actually already written that script. I have 150 lines of python that takes K-L-E JSON and outputs an eagle script to generate the schematic and another to generate the layout. It even connects rows and columns (in some cases) in the schematic, but I still have a few bugs to work through. A grid is easy and already works. Horizontal staggering works too, but I haven't quite figured out how to make vertical staggering work. Give me a couple weeks and I should be able to work through those issues and get this up and available somewhere, assuming I get through the PCB design I've been working on and get back to that script.

[swill]

I will have to look into this.  It would be easy for me to export as an SVG or something like that.  I will have to check how KiCad or Eagle expect input and go from there.  I have not worked with either of them at all yet...

If you can output a file with XY coordinates of the position of the center of the switch, it can be used to generate a positioning script. And I don't think an SVG file would be helpful for PCB making, at least not with Eagle.

Fair enough. I can produce the syntax you specified without too much difficulty. What file type is that?  How can I test it is working correctly?

You can do it in 2 ways: a script or an ULP (User Language Program). Both are plain text files, but distinct from each other.

An script is a simple sequence of comands, like the example I gave. An ULP is written in C-like syntax to perform more complex tasks. To test it you need to run them on Eagle, there are options for that on the menu.

Thank, this is helpful.  I would probably start out with a script and see how that goes.  To start, I would probably just do the switch holes, led holes, diode holes and the center MX hole.  I think that would give me enough work to get started on this.

I don't expect this to be too hard given my current setup.  I have developed a lot of helper functions to be able to work in both relative and absolute space.  All of my cutouts are in relative space (eg: square 14mm switch cutout would be [(7, 7), (7, -7), (-7, -7), (-7, 7)] ), then when I loop over the keys and rows, I do something like points.Rel(center_point) which maps the relative points to the absolute coord system with center_point being the center of the switch cutout.  This makes it easy for me to map patterns of holes or lines or whatever into absolute space easily.

I need to get my head around how exactly I am adding value by doing this though.  I don't really see how just having this information helps anyone.  I guess its just a starting point for them to build their own matrix?

I've actually already written that script. I have 150 lines of python that takes K-L-E JSON and outputs an eagle script to generate the schematic and another to generate the layout. It even connects rows and columns (in some cases) in the schematic, but I still have a few bugs to work through. A grid is easy and already works. Horizontal staggering works too, but I haven't quite figured out how to make vertical staggering work. Give me a couple weeks and I should be able to work through those issues and get this up and available somewhere, assuming I get through the PCB design I've been working on and get back to that script.

Very cool. Would you mind if I create a public port to golang and implement it straight into the builder?  I recently rewrote everything from python into golang and I am trying to keep as much of the code possible in a single language. Makes manageability much easier especially if I have to scale.

[jdcarpe]

Someone was asking about the holes in the PCB for LEDs, etc.

Here is a drawing I made for making a PCB footprint.

[swill]

Someone was asking about the holes in the PCB for LEDs, etc.

Here is a drawing I made for making a PCB footprint.

Show Image

wow, thats awesome dude.  thanks so much for sharing this.  :)

[skullydazed]

I've actually already written that script. I have 150 lines of python that takes K-L-E JSON and outputs an eagle script to generate the schematic and another to generate the layout. It even connects rows and columns (in some cases) in the schematic, but I still have a few bugs to work through. A grid is easy and already works. Horizontal staggering works too, but I haven't quite figured out how to make vertical staggering work. Give me a couple weeks and I should be able to work through those issues and get this up and available somewhere, assuming I get through the PCB design I've been working on and get back to that script.

Very cool. Would you mind if I create a public port to golang and implement it straight into the builder?  I recently rewrote everything from python into golang and I am trying to keep as much of the code possible in a single language. Makes manageability much easier especially if I have to scale.

Once it's done not at all, but I will probably be maintaining my own version anyway. I've been looking into what it'd take to interface with one of the fab services so people wouldn't have to figure out gerber files, but the problem is that it's not cheap. The cheapest option for a non-student starts at around $75 for something keyboard sized and takes weeks to be made/delivered. If you're in the US you can get something that looks like this in a day or two from bay area circuits for $100:



And if you're a student they have a $30 special you can use, but I don't have the right email address to try that service out.

Still, as a middle ground between hand wiring and full PCB design it's not bad if we can get it automated to the point of just submitting gerbers to the fab houses.

[Leslieann]

A trick I found today...

It no longer accepts blank or 0 for the holes, however, put 4, and then put a hole size of zero will work.

[Eszett]

Hi swill! Is it by purpose that the switches can move a tiny bit left-right in the cutout?

[swill]

A trick I found today...

It no longer accepts blank or 0 for the holes, however, put 4, and then put a hole size of zero will work.

Why do you need to do this?  You can just use the case type of "none" to draw with no holes. You can still specify the padding values.