Apple Extended Keyboard II variants: M0312 vs M3501

[Donut]

Hi,

Just thought I'd write with some info I spotted.

According to Wikipedia, the Extended Keyboard II comes in two variants: M0312 with Alps key switches, and M3501 with Mitsumi. [Update: that is not always true! At least some M3501 keyboards have Alps key switches. Read my posting below for more details.]

Take a look at the picture of the labels in ashort's posting about the Extended II. The main label says "Family Number: M3501" and specifies the FCC ID as BCGM3501. However, the serial number on the other label ends in M0312. (Year on main label is 1990.)

Also, see this page on www.clickykeyboards.com. There is a label with the M0312 code on the box. The serial number label is not shown, but the year 1995 is mentioned on the main label.

So...

• Does anyone know what the story is behind the two different versions? Was it possible to order a specific one from Apple? Based on the years given on the labels, it wasn't simply "all keyboards before year 19xx are M0312" etc.
• Has anyone used both types? How do the feels compare?
• Without packaging, the only way to tell what type the keyboard is, is by reading the serial number label. Many/most eBay sellers would just quote the M3501 family/model number (if at all). So if you're looking for an M0312 version, bear that in mind.

I have a couple of Extended Keyboard IIs, one British, the other International(?) English. Their serial numbers end in M3501B and M3501Z respectively. Both those have the ISO keyboard layout (different shaped return key, symbols instead of text on shift, home, end, etc.), as opposed to the ANSI layout used by US Keyboards. The label year on my M3501B is 1989, M3501Z is 1995.

Hope that helps someone!

[Jaydoublem]

Mine ends in M0312. I only have one board though, so I can't tell you what the difference is.

[IBI]

There's one on ebay UK at the moment, according to the seller it's a "1989 Made-in- Ireland AEK II (f# M3501)(s# AL4014SSM3501B)."

[StevieC]

the M0312 has Alps keyswitches. The M3501 has Mitsumi. The M0312 is much harder to find than the M3501. i know because I'm trying to find and obtain an M0312 with US English keymap, and it is nigh impossible. If ANYONE can point me to someone selling an M0312 for under $50, PLEASE let me know too. The M0312 is more desirable than the M3501 as it is probably compatible with aftermarket Alps-native replacement keycaps (I _think_ that's the case but i COULD be COMPLETELY wrong about that). Either way, I prefer the feel and sound of Alps keyswitches over Mitsumi. If noise is an issue than the Mitsumi-keyswitch equipped M3501 would be more to your preferences, however.

JayDoubleM, do you use your Apple Extended II very much? I might be interested in buying it from you but I'd need to know a few details. PM me?

[madmaxmedia]

The shape of the switches looks identical to me (from photos I've seen). I don't know for sure that the key caps would be compatible between models (and the Extended 1), but I am guessing they would be.

I will know in a few days. I have 2 Extended 1's, and have an M3501 Extended 2 coming in on Monday. I wanted to find something quieter for home, so this should do the trick.

Good luck with your search.

[Donut]

the M0312 has Alps keyswitches. The M3501 has Mitsumi. The M0312 is much harder to find than the M3501. i know because I'm trying to find and obtain an M0312 with US English keymap, and it is nigh impossible. If ANYONE can point me to someone selling an M0312 for under $50, PLEASE let me know too. The M0312 is more desirable than the M3501 as it is probably compatible with aftermarket Alps-native replacement keycaps (I _think_ that's the case but i COULD be COMPLETELY wrong about that). Either way, I prefer the feel and sound of Alps keyswitches over Mitsumi. If noise is an issue than the Mitsumi-keyswitch equipped M3501 would be more to your preferences, however.

Are you sure about the relative scarcity of M0312 keyboards? Since the only indication on the keyboard itself is the last part of the serial number -- the main label always says M3501 -- it might be worth asking the sellers of the various Extended Keyboard IIs on eBay. I reckon you could find an M0312 pretty quickly that way. If you do, please report back on whether your keycap hypothesis is correct!

[StevieC]

One thing I _wish_ I could do is get a stepped caps lock keycap to use on it  like the one from the apple design keyboard, but that keyboard's 'caps are physically incompatible (I checked). In addition, getting the foreign models' modifier keycaps with the symbols instead of the words for the modifier action would be a dream come true. I always preferred the symbols over the words. The other problem is I tend to be picky about condition. I'd want a keyboard where the plastic is NOT all yellowed with age. That generally means new-old-stock which are HARD to find and when one does find them they're expensive. I'll report back on my findings.

[Donut]

One thing I _wish_ I could do is get a stepped caps lock keycap to use on it  like the one from the apple design keyboard, but that keyboard's 'caps are physically incompatible (I checked). In addition, getting the foreign models' modifier keycaps with the symbols instead of the words for the modifier action would be a dream come true. I always preferred the symbols over the words. The other problem is I tend to be picky about condition. I'd want a keyboard where the plastic is NOT all yellowed with age. That generally means new-old-stock which are HARD to find and when one does find them they're expensive. I'll report back on my findings.

Maybe you'd be interested in an International English keyboard (e.g. M3501Z)? I think all non-American keyboards have symbols instead of words on the keys. If you prefer the US layout, you could get a used non-US keyboard and swap the keycaps over (except Return, since the shapes differ).

If you can find a seller who's willing to pull the keycaps and send just those, shipping to the US would be pretty cheap, if you can't find one nearer.

Update: I just noticed an M0312 keyboard on the US eBay site here. Currently $5 with one bid, ends March 29 15:57:40 PDT.

Update 2: Comparing the British English and International English key layouts, the only difference between the two is that the British English keyboard has £ instead of # on the 3 key. So if you had a British English keyboard, you could effectively convert it to the International English layout by replacing the 3 key with one taken from a US English keyboard. (I mention that because if you decide to get hold of a non-US keyboard for its symbolic key caps, a British English one is likely to be easier to find than an International English one.)

There is an article on the Apple web site with links to diagrams of the various types of keyboard layout: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304933. Note that, since the article really refers to newer Mac keyboards, there may be some slight differences between the layout picture and the corresponding Extended Keyboard (II). Specifically, the International English layout picture shows the text on the Control keys as "ctrl", whereas a real International English Extended Keyboard II (M3501Z) has "control" on those keys.

[madmaxmedia]

Now I get it! The back label always says M3501, but the serial number says M0312 (or whatever).

So there's a chance (if unlikely) that the one coming to me is a M0312. I guess the best way is to ask each seller to take a close-up photo of the label, or point out where the serial number is...

[StevieC]

turns out that both the ones I am borrowing are M0312's! With ALPS keyswitches!!!
Now to just find some keycaps from a few foreign models for the modifier keys (I prefer the symbol on them and NOT the word). Eventually I may custom paint the thing and get more colourful customized keycaps... COWER IN FEAR, PUNY MORTALS!

[madmaxmedia]

Congrats!

So how does the M0312 keys feel compared to the Apple Extended I? (it sounds like you have both right now in your possession)

[StevieC]

I don't have an Extended 1 but the M0312 uses the same keyswitches, so it feels about the same. I have only 2 complaints: One, the bezel is yellowed from exposure to direct sunlight, and not evenly because there was a function key label card left on it when it was stored. Second, and this is something that ALL the US layout keyboards have in common, is that instead of using the symbols that the menus use for the keys. I would rather have keycaps with the following symbols in lieu of the written-out word label.
Shift
Control
Option (alt)
Return
Backspace (mis-labeled "delete")
Escape
Numeric KeyPad Enter
Caps Lock (I'd like it to be stepped like that even though it also stays down when engaged)
I'd want the apple logo on the command key removed and replaced with a diamond symbol (Meta key which is how the key functions in Linux)
et al
I suspect there are places where I could get custom keycaps for this thing, and I'd probably want to get a whole set of custom keycaps since I also hope to paint the whole keyboard bezel in BLACK. I'd keep the power key and get it custom painted since it has the power symbol (a left-pointing triangle) inscribed in relief on it. I'd want to paint that key red but the groove that outlines the triangle white so it looks like an emergency switch.

[bhtooefr]

I have an Apple Extended Keyboard II, family M3501, serial AP15032X%M0312 that I bought for my IIGS.

The keys feel... like crap.

It's hard to describe... it feels like a good membrane keyboard when you're pressing one key at a time, but at speed, it SUCKS, I'd rather have a Dell QuietKey or something. It almost feels like it's hitting a rubber washer at the end of the keystroke. It's also rather quiet - just a bit of click.

[xsphat]

Check it again, I used to have an Apple Design Keyboard, ADB plug and membrane, and it looks pretty close to the Extendeds.

[bhtooefr]

Considering it quite clearly says, "Apple® Extended Keyboard II," I doubt that it's an AppleDesign.

[xsphat]

Just checkin'.

[madmaxmedia]

Okay, I got my Apple Extended II in the mail today, turns out that mine is also a M0312 according to the sticker with the serial number.

The keys don't feel good to me, at least compared to my Extended I's. They are quieter, but also mushier as well. Too bad, this one is a pretty nice specimen too, not too much fading and cosmetically great.

If these go for decent money on EBay, then I'm gonna run not walk to put this on sale. I have 2 Extended I's anyway so don't need the extra. I just bought this hoping that it would feel close to the Extended I but quieter, so I could use it in my bedroom. But I can't see myself getting used to this one, when I'm using an Extended I at work.

It's by no means a horrible keyboard, I just prefer the feel of the I by a large margin over this one. For general typing it would be just fine, but I like my Extended I for speed.

[StevieC]

I've noticed something about my m0312 Apple Extended II. It doesn't have n-key down. Apparently the serial number has to end in m3501 (Mitsumi keyswitches) for it to have n-key down rollover. Does anyone have an Extended II with a serial number that ends in M3501? Can they confirm or disprove this theory of mine?

[Donut]

I've noticed something about my m0312 Apple Extended II. It doesn't have n-key down. Apparently the serial number has to end in m3501 (Mitsumi keyswitches) for it to have n-key down rollover. Does anyone have an Extended II with a serial number that ends in M3501? Can they confirm or disprove this theory of mine?

I do, but currently would have to use it via an ADB-to-USB converter. Apart from the USB protocol 6-character limit, it's possible that the particular converter I'm using isn't too great. So the only real way to check for sure would be to use a real Mac with ADB port.

[Donut]

the M0312 has Alps keyswitches. The M3501 has Mitsumi.

That's what Wikipedia says, but it's wrong. Or at least, not always true.

It may depend on the date of manufacture, and/or where the keyboard was manufactured, but at least some M3501 keyboards have Alps key switches.

Today I removed a couple of key caps from my two Extended Keyboard IIs. Both are made in Ireland. One is M3501B (British English, year on label 1989), the other M3501Z (International English, 1995). Both have Alps key switches with white sliders. The sliders on the M3501B appear to be a pale yellowish colour, but that may just be due to ageing of the plastic, or perhaps natural variation in colours between batches.

Sandy's web page mentions the M3501 having white or cream sliders (but doesn't say whether the keyboards he looked at are M0312 or M3501). So I guess the sliders in my M3501B are supposed to be cream, not just discoloured with age.

[StevieC]

Check the BARCODE number, NOT the model number. Wikipedia is referring to the last 5 digits of the BAR-CODE number. I suspect that they are BOTH m0312 if you look at the barcode. I'm looking for ones with the barcode ending in M3501, as those are the ones that support n-key down rollover. However you said yours aren't yellowed? Can you send me pics?

[madmaxmedia]

I took mine out (M0312 according to bar code) and played around with it a bit more. I'm starting to come around on it. The thing that throws me off is that it takes a bit more pressure to depress the keys than the Extended I (at least that's how it feels), so I have to get used to it. At first it feels mushy and hard to use, but then my fingers seem to adjust to the pressure and do fine.

It's still not my preference, but its a good compromise in terms of noise. It is definitely a lot quieter than the Extended I, and I can type reasonably fast on it. And I have to admit it looks much sleeker (nothing like typing on a keyboard that looks older than you!)

[Donut]

Check the BARCODE number, NOT the model number. Wikipedia is referring to the last 5 digits of the BAR-CODE number. I suspect that they are BOTH m0312 if you look at the barcode. I'm looking for ones with the barcode ending in M3501, as those are the ones that support n-key down rollover. However you said yours aren't yellowed? Can you send me pics?

(I assume you're replying to my post above re M3501B & M3501Z having Alps key switches.)

I was posting the end of the serial numbers; not surprising since I started this thread! . For non-US keyboards, there is a letter following the Mxxxx in the serial number indicating the keyboard layout. The Family Number is still shown as M3501 (no suffix).

I have uploaded some pictures. Please go here to see them all. Quality of some is pretty poor since I used a phone camera and the wrong focus setting (most noticeable on the pictures of the whole keyboard).

Here are some links:
M3501B, left part
M3501B, right part
M3501B, labels
M3501B, serial number detail
M3501B, with two key caps removed showing cream-coloured sliders
M3501B, close-up of key switches
M3501B, another close-up of key switches

M3501Z, left part
M3501Z, right part
M3501Z, labels
M3501Z, with two key caps removed showing white sliders
M3501Z, close-up of key switches