HHKB2 and the Win Key

[kppanic]

Hello all!

How do users with HHKB2 and Windows cope with the fact that it has no "Windows" key?

I have grown accustomed to this very key and it would be very hard for me to live without it.  It is actually a deal breaker for choosing keyboards.

Does the "command" key act like the winkey if plugged into a PC motherboard, or maybe I can remap the key using AHK?

Your expertise and experience are very much appreciated,
thanks!

[quadibloc]

Another thread here on the HHKB Professional 2 notes that this keyboard does have the Windows Shift key, in fact, it has both left and right Windows Shift keys, but it is lacking the Windows Menu key (which shift-F10 can substitute for in some applications).

[ch_123]

The meta key registers as the Win Key in Windows without any intervention required.

[kppanic]

The meta key registers as the Win Key in Windows without any intervention required.

Thanks for the quick answers..

I really should start using the search function in forums.

Mods, you may ban me for being a numbnut.  I will do a full search from now on before I kick myself in the ass.


Now.... I have almost made up my mind...  Almost ordering the keyboard... I like the black one!

[itlnstln]

Mods, you may ban me for being a numbnut. I will do a full search from now on before I kick myself in the ass.

We pride ourselves on not having this attitude at GeekHack.  That said, I think you will like the HHKB.  The switches are OK, but the layout is money.

[ch_123]

Mods, you may ban me for being a numbnut.  I will do a full search from now on before I kick myself in the ass.

A perfectly reasonable question, it's not entirely obvious that it's Windows compatible or not.

They're definitely one of the nicest keyboards going. Expensive, but you're getting one of the best ones going.

[itlnstln]

I'm definitely glad I bought one.  I must say that I think I prefer the Cherry browns as far as switches go, but the construction, layout and materials are second to none (maybe except Model Ms/Fs).

[kppanic]

I swear, when I was a little kid (mid/late 80) I was subjected to a lot of different keyboards in Korea.   My muscle memory tells me that I have used IBM M's, cherry blues and topres.  You may laugh but before buying my first filco blues I did some research and listened to sound clips of various keyboards.  The funny thing is that I could actually "taste" what the keypresses were like for different switches due to early chldhood memories.  When I got my filco blue and started typing on it, it felt exactly like how I "remembered" it.  Now I am pretty sure that I've typed on a custom topre board Korean layout keyboard too.    
Today at work I came across this Casio calculator.  When I pressed the keys something clicked in my brain.  The keycaps themselves were velvety or a little "furry" if you know what that means.  The pressing of the keys were also very familiar.  Very soft yet responsive. And finally the sound was something I definitely remember.  I knew I used a keyboard just like this one.

Why am I babbling like this?   It may have to do with the fact that I need some kind of self justification to buy an HHKB -- it's going to be over $300CAD.  

Thanks for the help and not banning me and calling me names lol.   It's been maybe a month since my filco blue and here I am trying to get anther keyboard.

[itlnstln]

Speak for yourself! Wait.

Well, some of us anyway.
 

those oh so handy arrow keys

Now that I think about it, I don't even miss the arrow keys anymore.  I still miss the numpad, though.

[lowpoly]

Doesn't it depend on the dip switch settings? In 'light mode' there was one but not in std mode? I think I had a small ahk script for the Windows key. Because using the light mode was not cool. ;-)

[microsoft windows]

If you  buy an HHKB, keep in mind that it is a rubber dome with a very different layout. If you're looking for a keyboard with tactile feedback then Topre's not a good idea. However, I've heard that they're very high-quality rubber domes; so if you're looking for light and smooth action, they're a good thing to consider.

Just remember that the layout on those things does require some getting used to. I'd try out the layout on a standard keyboard before paying a few hundred on one just to make sure you like it.

[hacfed]

Pfft, the HHKB is, I feel, the best layout going. The saving in deskspace and increase in productivity (everything is 'on' the home row) makes me wonder why anyone would use a fullsize or even tenkeyless again. The navigation keys are the only real weakness in my experience with the board. I jumped right in with a black, blank version and was upto speed fairly quickly, and I'm sure a labelled version is that little bit easier to manage, if that's your preference. How to better the HHKB? Well, nowadays my M doesn't get any love.. but I do miss the feel. So. A buckling spring HHKB?

[rdjack21]

If you  buy an HHKB, keep in mind that it is a rubber dome with a very different layout. If you're looking for a keyboard with tactile feedback then Topre's not a good idea. However, I've heard that they're very high-quality rubber domes; so if you're looking for light and smooth action, they're a good thing to consider.

Just remember that the layout on those things does require some getting used to. I'd try out the layout on a standard keyboard before paying a few hundred on one just to make sure you like it.

Oh man we have another LAL. Until you actually purchase a Topre board and use one you fall into the same boat as LAL ignorantly spouting stuff just to say something that you have no clue about. (Sorry if that sounds hard but it is the way I feel about it)

BTW: The Topre does have tactile feedback actually myself and many others feel that it has more tactile feed back than a Cherry Brown. That does not mean though that it has the Sharp tactile feedback of a Model M or Alps White it is more of between a Cherry Blue and a Cherry Brown in feel (more than a brown but less than a blue)

[quadibloc]

P.S.  What is the STOP key for??

Sun workstations have a STOP key; it's where the F1 key would be on a pre-Model M keyboard for a PC. And the HHKB can be connected to a Sun workstation as well as to a Mac or a PC.

[konz]

P.S.  What is the STOP key for??

I don't have the manual with me (not that I can read Japanese), but I think it is a SUN key, available only in HHK mode (DIP SW 1 and 2 off).  I don't actually know what it does in Solaris.

[ch_123]

If you  buy an HHKB, keep in mind that it is a rubber dome with a very different layout. If you're looking for a keyboard with tactile feedback then Topre's not a good idea. However, I've heard that they're very high-quality rubber domes; so if you're looking for light and smooth action, they're a good thing to consider.

Excellent, I love when people who have no experience with something give advice as if they use it every day based on the words of some naysayers. It really adds to the calibre of the discussion.

In terms of tactile feedback, I prefer Topres to Blue Cherries, Black Alps and probably the Blue Alps too. Very smooth, and it doesn't interfere with your typing. Not as tactile as the Buckling Springs, but hey, Buckling Springs have their downsides too. From the nonsense thrown around here about the Topre, I was expecting them to be pretty crap. I was rather surprised when I got mine and started typing on it.

[itlnstln]

If you buy an HHKB, keep in mind that it is a rubber dome with a very different layout. If you're looking for a keyboard with tactile feedback then Topre's not a good idea. However, I've heard that they're very high-quality rubber domes; so if you're looking for light and smooth action, they're a good thing to consider.
 
Just remember that the layout on those things does require some getting used to. I'd try out the layout on a standard keyboard before paying a few hundred on one just to make sure you like it.

Obvious Troll is obvious.

[ch_123]

Trolls tend to be far more clever than that.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I suppose.  I guess I mistook the statement as trolling when it was just sheer, unadulterated ignorance.

[rdjack21]

Yeah, I suppose.  I guess I mistook the statement as trolling when it was just sheer, unadulterated ignorance.

It is worse than that it is ignorance trying to sound knowledgeable and not doing a very good job of it.

[itlnstln]

Sort of, but it's still very inaccurate. The Topre switches are quite tactile. To say that they feel like an average rubber dome is incorrect, but yes, it does have a rubber dome force curve. The major difference is that the Topre switch does not need to be bottomed out like a typical rubber dome. I'm not going to say that Topres are magical or the best switch ever, but calling it a typical rubber dome is incorrect. That's like me saying that a Model M feels exactly like a Model F, and I have never (knowingly) used a Model F.
 

When paying $250 for a keyboard you better do the research. I think a lot of people buy HHKBs because they look cool. Nothing wrong with that.

Whatever the case, this is very true.  I did the same thing before buying my HHKB.

[ch_123]

Hey, Microsoft Window's point is still valid.

Better to be wrong for the right reason than right for the wrong one.

[itlnstln]

Better to be wrong for the right reason than right for the wrong one.

What he said.

[itlnstln]

He describes a typical rubber dome's feel and suggests that the Topre is the same, thus effectively calling Topres a typical rubber dome, which is not the case. He either tries to disguise the intent of the comment, or deliver a sly insult to Topre-lovers (or both) with the "I've heard they're very high quality...," but it didn't fool anyone.

[quadibloc]

Sort of, but it's still very inaccurate. The Topre switches are quite tactile. To say that they feel like an average rubber dome is incorrect, but yes, it does have a rubber dome force curve. The major difference is that the Topre switch does not need to be bottomed out like a typical rubber dome.

This is interesting and very informative.

The Model F is said to have a better feel than the Model M. It's been a long time since I used Model F keyboards on the original IBM PC, and so I don't know from personal experience that the Model F feels "better" - having a 122-key Model F terminal keyboard that I acquired one lucky day at a thrift shop, I now know they feel and sound different, being motivated to try from a discussion here - but perhaps this is why it would feel better.

While the Model M doesn't have to be bottomed out, perhaps the capacitative Model F actuates just a bit earlier. (Come to think of it, though, that's unlikely - the spring would have to buckle in both cases.)

Naturally, this isn't an unbiased source, but a web site selling Topre keyboards noted that some airlines buy them because of the importance of very accurate data entry when selling plane tickets. This raises hopes that one is dealing with something that at least could be the "best keyboard ever". But if it isn't dramatically different from a good rubber dome, well, it could indeed be a disappointment to some.

I wonder... if Japanese airlines are Topre customers, are any American airlines shopping at Unicomp - and actually buying the real buckling-spring deal?

[itlnstln]

I bought the HHKB more for the layout than the switches.  I was intrigued by the reputation Topres seem to get, but I, too, was a bit skeptical.  Like ripster said, they do feel rubber dome-like, especially when it comes to the force curve.  That said, they are smoother and springier than typical domes, and they are more tactile, particularly compared to the run-of-the-mill Dells we have around here.  In the end, though, I don't think they're Jesus' second coming, or anything.  After using them for a few weeks, I think that I prefer the Cherry browns overall.  When you get used to the layout of the HHKB, it's hard to go back.  I don't think I would spend the same money on the Realforce, however.  IMO, the switches, themselves, aren't worth $200+.

[itlnstln]

You buy the Realforce because it has less DIP switches to memorize. :biggrin1:
 
Anyway, where are the Taiwanese HHKB clones Ms Keyboard was talking about?? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to chop off some keys.

Mmm... HHKB with brown Cherrys.  Oh yeah, that's the MiniGuru (except better than the HHKB).  Hurry, Sofa King.

[quadibloc]

Oh yeah, that's the MiniGuru (except better than the HHKB).  Hurry, Sofa King.

Yes, it's a keyboard that sounds interesting to me.

Of course, I made the crazy suggestion that he should perhaps add the Esc key and the function keys - touching the main keyboard - except that instead of being the function keys, they're the cursor keys and the other odd keys - print screen, home, page up, that sort of thing - so that the keyboard can be a commercial success as a programmable tenkeyless... that goes into an 'advanced mode' where you don't need the top row.

However, I made that suggestion in another thread, not his thread, so I have no idea if he has seen it...

[itlnstln]

Mmm... Chocolate base with cream keys filled with chocolate Cherrys.

[lal]

Hi