I have to ask... What made you decide to get 55g?Very good question :thumb: I made the decision based on many reviews and feedback on the Internet. Unfortunately, it was not a great investment; small keys, fatigue, cracking sound from the corner....countless issues. But, since it was a very expensive I decided to live with it for 5 years :eek:
MX Topre slider keyboardcan you give an example ?
I have been using TKL RF Topre KBD (55g) for about 5 years. But, I need to replace it for three main reasons:
- the keycaps are small for my fingers
- writing long sessions on a 55g switches causes me fatigue
- it is not quietest
What is the closest keybaord to Topre feel (or better if there is any) but with a quieter feedback, larger keycaps and a less actuation force?
some have suggested to me to buy the new silenced RF Topre with 45g/variable? What do you think?
Thanks!
you could try Zilents V2 or Jailhouse Blues (3mm travel), ± Copre mod, ± latex mod for further silencing, and SPRiT spring of your choice. Having the MX stem would let you pick the profile you desire.Is there a keyboard that combines these? OR you mean I need to build it myself?
I have to ask... What made you decide to get 55g?Very good question :thumb: I made the decision based on many reviews and feedback on the Internet. Unfortunately, it was not a great investment; small keys, fatigue, cracking sound from the corner....countless issues. But, since it was a very expensive I decided to live with it for 5 years :eek:
Currently I am doing a coding exam and this is makes me sick. That's why I decided to replace it, hopefully.QuoteMX Topre slider keyboardcan you give an example ?
Thanks for your advice!Quoteyou could try Zilents V2 or Jailhouse Blues (3mm travel), ± Copre mod, ± latex mod for further silencing, and SPRiT spring of your choice. Having the MX stem would let you pick the profile you desire.Is there a keyboard that combines these? OR you mean I need to build it myself?
you could try Zilents V2 or Jailhouse Blues (3mm travel), ± Copre mod, ± latex mod for further silencing, and SPRiT spring of your choice. Having the MX stem would let you pick the profile you desire.This is a very difficult recipe for me since I have never done such mods ;D Can someone give me a video on YouTube or a website showing someone who had already cooked this recipe :thumb:
Buy one...
The Topre clones are all very light and the spring they include makes it feel more linear...so you'd need to replace the domes..
But that said, I don't think the Topre clones are too bad...I've used them for work.....
I suggest either a Topre keyboard with MX compatibility, or one of those cheaper Topre-like keyboards like the ABKO K935P or Niz Plum 87. Those have MX keycap compatibility that will supposedly allow you to use the range of MX keycaps.
This means you could buy an ABKO with MX stems, put KAT or MT3 keycaps on it, and therefore have giant keys with potentially large surfaces to use.
The ABKO is silenced(?) 45G, and many of the Niz keyboards come with 35G, which is surely light enough. Plus you can put aftermarket domes on many of them, ranging from 30-65G , depending on your preference.
Thanks. I'll be very interested to hear about your new Plum keyboard. I may have a 45 G ABKO on its way soon, for comparison.
Thanks for the advice! I ordered the Plum 2019 NEW Micro 82 EC Keyboard with Non-RGB and 35g :D I will give you guys my feedback soon...
If you ever need to make it quieter, lubing the sliders makes a big difference on EC keyboards. I just did mine with Tribosys 3203, and it made it quieter than I was expecting. You can also deaden the sound by applying adhesive butyl rubber to the inside of the case.How to do that? I have never done modifications to a keyboard. If you can give few links for videos plus good lube/rubber/adhesive... that would be great.
;D ;D :thumb: I hope it feels better than RF Topre.
Thanks for the advice! I ordered the Plum 2019 NEW Micro 82 EC Keyboard with Non-RGB and 35g :D I will give you guys my feedback soon...
Haha, as I was reading down this thread I was just about to suggest this. I've got the micro82 and I love it. It's really quiet, has 3 levels of actuation distance, spacebar is rock solid no twang and overall it feels pretty decent. The software takes some getting used to.
Thanks. I'll be very interested to hear about your new Plum keyboard. I may have a 45 G ABKO on its way soon, for comparison.
If you ever need to make it quieter, lubing the sliders makes a big difference on EC keyboards. I just did mine with Tribosys 3203, and it made it quieter than I was expecting. You can also deaden the sound by applying adhesive butyl rubber to the inside of the case.How to do that? I have never done modifications to a keyboard. If you can give few links for videos plus good lube/rubber/adhesive... that would be great.
Thanks. I'll be very interested to hear about your new Plum keyboard. I may have a 45 G ABKO on its way soon, for comparison.
Sure. Let's compare it with the ABKO, which btw was my second one on the list :)
Mine is a 45 G (Silenced). It's my understanding that they are default 45 G out-of-the-box.
There are springs that came with the package, so those must be to make it 55 G [45 G domes + 10 G springs]. But I never installed the springs that came in the box, so it should be at its stock 45 G weight.
It's my understanding that the ABKO uses Niz domes, so it should be very similar to a 45 G Niz keyboard.
I'm not really sure of the origins of the domes in the ABKO. I read a number of times that they are from the same company that makes them for the Plum keyboards.
But they are listed as 45 G domes. People who own both say that the 45 G ABKO domes are like a heavier version of the 35 G Niz domes, but without using the extra springs.
True enough about the cost. Although, in Canada, an ABKO 935 is $232. By contrast, a Realforce R2 is $400. And a PFU edition is a staggering $500 CDN. [And you're going to want to spend at least $100 on replacing the keycaps.]
The ABKO is MX compatible, which means you can use keycaps you have lying around. Instead of buying Topre.
Anyway, ABKO vs. Topre is just a matter of preference. The ABKO is ready out-of-the-box, and doesn't require mods. For those who prefer a more subtle tactility, ABKO might be more desirable.
But you have to admit, for a generic whatever brand, 150-160 USD (which is what I've seen it for) is pretty pricey...That price is what's kept me from every buying one. You can find a used Realforce on Ebay on occasion for not much more than that. I had ordered a 55g Abko or one of the Korean capacitive keyboards on eBay once, but got refunded the next day because the seller had screwed up on the shipping. He meant it to be almost $100, not free. I wasn't going to pay that on top of the $150+ for the keyboard itself.
I'm not really sure of the origins of the domes in the ABKO. I read a number of times that they are from the same company that makes them for the Plum keyboards.
But they are listed as 45 G domes. People who own both say that the 45 G ABKO domes are like a heavier version of the 35 G Niz domes, but without using the extra springs.
Ah ok..well that sounds pretty good. When I got my NiZ, it was supposed to be 45g but apparently that is with springs so I was a bit disappointed with it. That was quite awhile ago though and since it was more or less a throw away (used in an office where if it got lost or stolen I didn't care), it was fine for that purpose.
Thing with ABKO's now is they seem like they'e gotten more expensive...I guess if you can get them direct they might not be too bad but at the 150+ mark, I think I'd rather just get another R1 or R2...
Hi all!
Today I received my Plum 2019 NEW Micro 82 EC Keyboard with Non-RGB and 35g. I have been using it for 3 hours and these are my first impressions after about 5 years of using RF Topre:
- the packaging was ok and it includes some spare keys for Mac, springs and key puller.
- 35g, so far, is too light for my taste, I am gonna install the spring to make it 45g after I give it a try for a few days
- the quality does not justify the price. it feels so cheap compared to my RF and CM keyboard!
- the keys are so small and this is what disappoints me most. Although I have very small finger tips I found it very difficult to type faster on it.
- the Delete/Esc keys have an awkward size compared to the rest of the keys.
- the keys wobble - almost all of them :(
I will keep you posted as I test it more thoroughly.
The keyboard wobble is disappointing to read about. My two electro-capacitive boards had led me to expect that a lack of wobble was inherent to the design (I find key wobble to be quite annoying).
Some of the issues with the existing RF board might be addressable via dental band modding? I've not done it myself, but my Royal Kludge has this factory applied on 55g domes. As a result, it is very quiet and much easier to actuate than my 55g RF.
You can also get MX adaptors for the switches which would allow you to install large surface area aftermarket keycaps. Not sure if this is compatible with the dental band modding.
Sorry about the lack of direct experience, I've never found it necessary to mod either my electro-capacitive boards as I'm sufficiently happy with them stock.
I think this was already talked about..35g is going to feel really light. The springs aren't going to make it feel much better. They'll feel a lot more linear.
The quality of these boards is not bad. Solid build. Feels pretty good when using it. Definitely it isn't RF - That was already known.
The keys aren't any smaller than other keyboards..it isn't smaller than RF keycaps..Not sure where you're coming from. Granted, I haven't tried that niz/plum but I have others and this doesn't look different.
I don't think you're right about del/esc based on pictures and my experience with their other boards. They're isolated from the other keys but not sure what you're seeing here.
The tall keys have more wobble than the shorter keys but this doesn't impact the typing experience which feels pretty solid even on off-center hits...
Maybe you need to spend more time with it because I think you're wrong about a good part what you written. Not opinion wrong but factually wrong.
I'm not a huge fan of the plums..mainly because I think they're too light and to get them to where I might be really happy with it would take more work/money than is worth it..but facts are facts..
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 June 2020, 11:02:38 by Polymer »
.
1. I'm not disagreeing 35g is too light. That's been talked about here. The question is what were you expecting? I was hoping it would have a bit more pop and be closer to Topre 45g with springs and hoping that using the spring wouldn't turn it linear but it did.QuoteI think this was already talked about..35g is going to feel really light. The springs aren't going to make it feel much better. They'll feel a lot more linear.
The quality of these boards is not bad. Solid build. Feels pretty good when using it. Definitely it isn't RF - That was already known.
The keys aren't any smaller than other keyboards..it isn't smaller than RF keycaps..Not sure where you're coming from. Granted, I haven't tried that niz/plum but I have others and this doesn't look different.
I don't think you're right about del/esc based on pictures and my experience with their other boards. They're isolated from the other keys but not sure what you're seeing here.
The tall keys have more wobble than the shorter keys but this doesn't impact the typing experience which feels pretty solid even on off-center hits...
Maybe you need to spend more time with it because I think you're wrong about a good part what you written. Not opinion wrong but factually wrong.
I'm not a huge fan of the plums..mainly because I think they're too light and to get them to where I might be really happy with it would take more work/money than is worth it..but facts are facts..
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 June 2020, 11:02:38 by Polymer »
.
- As I said, the keys are too light for my taste; everyone is different.
- it is *not* solid build... I am not an expert but as I mentioned it cannot come close to CM/RF keyboards.
- It is smaller than my CM Storm QuickFire XT keys, a lot smaller.
- Again, as I said, the Delete key is larger than the F keys. Not only this, but it is raised higher than the others! I am not sure if this is by design or QC issue. It's annoying however. Don't judge based on pictures...we're here to help people know exactly the pros/cons of this product.
- Wobbling keys do impact the typing experience in my humble opinion.
- I spent more time with it and start to get used to it with all the cons I mentioned. Yet, the price tag is too high for such keyboard.
1. I'm not disagreeing 35g is too light. That's been talked about here. The question is what were you expecting? I was hoping it would have a bit more pop and be closer to Topre 45g with springs and hoping that using the spring wouldn't turn it linear but it did.QuoteI think this was already talked about..35g is going to feel really light. The springs aren't going to make it feel much better. They'll feel a lot more linear.
The quality of these boards is not bad. Solid build. Feels pretty good when using it. Definitely it isn't RF - That was already known.
The keys aren't any smaller than other keyboards..it isn't smaller than RF keycaps..Not sure where you're coming from. Granted, I haven't tried that niz/plum but I have others and this doesn't look different.
I don't think you're right about del/esc based on pictures and my experience with their other boards. They're isolated from the other keys but not sure what you're seeing here.
The tall keys have more wobble than the shorter keys but this doesn't impact the typing experience which feels pretty solid even on off-center hits...
Maybe you need to spend more time with it because I think you're wrong about a good part what you written. Not opinion wrong but factually wrong.
I'm not a huge fan of the plums..mainly because I think they're too light and to get them to where I might be really happy with it would take more work/money than is worth it..but facts are facts..
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 June 2020, 11:02:38 by Polymer »
.
- As I said, the keys are too light for my taste; everyone is different.
- it is *not* solid build... I am not an expert but as I mentioned it cannot come close to CM/RF keyboards.
- It is smaller than my CM Storm QuickFire XT keys, a lot smaller.
- Again, as I said, the Delete key is larger than the F keys. Not only this, but it is raised higher than the others! I am not sure if this is by design or QC issue. It's annoying however. Don't judge based on pictures...we're here to help people know exactly the pros/cons of this product.
- Wobbling keys do impact the typing experience in my humble opinion.
- I spent more time with it and start to get used to it with all the cons I mentioned. Yet, the price tag is too high for such keyboard.
2. What is not solid about the build? The first time I tried a plum I was expecting something with more give, more rattle..but it is oddly very solid. Not that I prefer it to RF, but it was really a lot better than expected. What makes it not a solid build?
3. The keys are pretty normal in size. They're not a lot smaller. You're mistaken. Why don't you measure them and show pics? Maybe yours is an anomaly. For fun I did a side by side from an R2 Topre keyboard..and what do you know, the Plum keys are actually BIGGER. Which matches what I feel which is, they're about the same size but slightly bigger. They might be smaller than your XT but the point is, they're not smaller than the RF keycaps...or GMK or many other sets that are out there today. In fact, I'd say on average they're on the bigger side.
4. The Esc Key and Del Key look normal in the pics. I also have a keyboard from Plum and it is not a different size. Take pics.
5. Can you explain how the wobbling keys are impacting your experience? Because the wobbly keys on plum tend to be the F keys...which are not impacting your typing experience. The other keys are significantly less wobbly. Having use their boards before and side by side with other Topre, they don't feel any less stable..in fact, oddly more so. Maybe it is the slightly BIGGER keys compared to other keycaps that makes it so.
6. I'm not challenging your assessment on value. Depending on how much you paid, it might not be worth it. I think I paid 100 for mine and it was borderline whether it was worth it to me simply because I was wishing for a bit more pop and to get that I'd have to take it apart and change the domes. But that said, the build was better than expected. What I am challenging is your assessment on some of the other things (keycaps?) which seem factually incorrect. Which leads to some of the other things like the wobbling which doesn't seem to have any impact on typing and is not much on the normal keys. The F keys wobble like mad but if you aren't seeing there is a difference between those and the other keys, again, your assessment is poor.
You're trying to force your picture-based opinions on me hahahaaa. How can you judge something that you have never experienced?! If you a fan of NIZ/Plum, then do n0t mislead the others. From this moment, I will call you the picture-based reviewer ;D
I would suggest something I've done for myself and many other friends around.
I would go for Realforce R2 TKL 45g, buy Novatouch sliders and install them and add Deskeys #3 silencing rings.
I did that with my 55g R2 and it is end-game topre board for me.
Then you could throw some SA, MT3 or MDA caps on it, which have bigger top surface - MDA is biggest I think.
Here's my RF R2 TKL 55g, modded with Novatouch sliders and rings with MDA caps.
For you - modded r2 45g would be best solution, in my opinion.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40658.0;attach=234815;image)
I have a PLUM keyboard..just not that specific model.Ok. Once you have my "specific model" , then you can come back and share (not force) your opinions, feedback...etc
The keys are not as you've described....you haven't even checked side by side I'm sure.You're sure!! You must have surveillance in my home :eek: Your title has been updated: the picture-based all-knowing reviewer :)
Either way, how does it feel to have wasted your money?YES!
Ok. Once you have my "specific model" , then you can come back and share (not force) your opinions, feedback...etc
You're sure!! You must have surveillance in my home :eek: Your title has been updated: the picture-based all-knowing reviewer :)
It seems that's where I am heading :thumb: Just a question: instead of modding, did you consider the PFU Topre R2 Limited Edition which is silenced already? Some people like the variable version of Topre R2, what do you think?
It'd be interesting to hear what you have to say about the ABKO. The PLUM/NIZ 45g is their 35g + spring and that totally kills the feel...If you have 45g domes that would be nice as you'll have a better weighting and still keep the tactility...
Can we get photos of these differently sized keys?
Sounds like a production or assembly issue. It's costly to make specifically odd sized key caps, they're usually just produced by row number in identical moulds. So either a cap has been misprinted in some freak accident (don't know if Niz caps are double shot or printed), badly cast, or improperly seated. Or something else weird is going on here.
Ok. Once you have my "specific model" , then you can come back and share (not force) your opinions, feedback...etcQuote
Why? It isn't like they'd completely change what they're doing. Nothing indicates the keycaps are smaller than normal ones, in fact all evidence points to them being at least the same size if not bigger based on other keyboards from this same manufacturer. If it is smaller, grab your realforce keycap and the plum one and do a side by side. Add value to this with proof.You're sure!! You must have surveillance in my home :eek: Your title has been updated: the picture-based all-knowing reviewer :)Quote
If you had you would've either mentioned it or took pictures to show some real value here. Neither of which you've done. You can't even describe how this keyboard isn't a solid build even though every evidence suggests that in the least, it is a fairly solid build.
Or show the extra wobbly keys.
Or show how the ESC/DEL is different than the rest of the F row...
I mean, why would you compare it to XT keycaps when you've suggested you have a RF. Maybe a bit of making stuff up?
This post not for marketing nor commissions - look for other posts.
Thanks for the photos.
Coming off without a cap puller sounds not great.
The height comparison, is Del the same size and height as F12? Those are the keys that should match. I'm not sure what profile Niz uses, I'd guess at OEM or Cherry as they're the most common on stock boards. R1 (Del) is higher than R2 (Home) on most profiles.
I would suggest something I've done for myself and many other friends around.
I would go for Realforce R2 TKL 45g, buy Novatouch sliders and install them and add Deskeys #3 silencing rings.
I did that with my 55g R2 and it is end-game topre board for me.
Then you could throw some SA, MT3 or MDA caps on it, which have bigger top surface - MDA is biggest I think.
Here's my RF R2 TKL 55g, modded with Novatouch sliders and rings with MDA caps.
For you - modded r2 45g would be best solution, in my opinion.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40658.0;attach=234815;image)
It seems that's where I am heading :thumb: Just a question: instead of modding, did you consider the PFU Topre R2 Limited Edition which is silenced already? Some people like the variable version of Topre R2, what do you think?
Thanks for sharing your awesome keyboard's pics!
Thanks for the photos.
Coming off without a cap puller sounds not great.
The height comparison, is Del the same size and height as F12? Those are the keys that should match. I'm not sure what profile Niz uses, I'd guess at OEM or Cherry as they're the most common on stock boards. R1 (Del) is higher than R2 (Home) on most profiles.
Yes, you can remove all key caps without a puller and with 0-effort! I just took two other photos for you to see the DEL compared to F12. what I noticed when they are on my table, there is a slight difference. But what makes it worse is when you put them back on the keyboard because of the fitting issue I mentioned before.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
It'd be interesting to hear what you have to say about the ABKO. The PLUM/NIZ 45g is their 35g + spring and that totally kills the feel...If you have 45g domes that would be nice as you'll have a better weighting and still keep the tactility...
Can I ask, you're quite sure on this?
If so this has totally wiped out any chance of me ever buying a NIZ board (was thinking of buying one for a family member).
Such a method of achieving a switch weighting sounds... totally disingenuous and misleading. You'd end up with something that doesn't feel like Topre at all, it just sounds purely linear. Even my silenced 45 is a tad too close to linear for my liking.
If you pick limited edition, silenced, you will still have to swap sliders with Novatouch to use MX caps and move original topre silencing rings to Novatouch sliders. Of course only if you want to use MX caps - I understand you want to have bigger caps, so this is the only way.
Either - R2 45g - Novatouch sliders - Deskeys rings
or - R2 45g SE silenced - Novatouch sliders - original topre rings
Just a note - my personal opinion - original topre silence rings are pretty thick, #3 deskeys rings are thinner and take off less thock off the key strokes. Topre silencing is thick and makes it more muted and thock feeling is a bit muffled for my taste. Prefer thinner rings, like #3 deskeys.
I would go for Realforce R2 TKL 45g, buy Novatouch sliders and install them and add Deskeys #3 silencing rings.
I did that with my 55g R2 and it is end-game topre board for me.
Then you could throw some SA, MT3 or MDA caps on it, which have bigger top surface - MDA is biggest I think.
Here's my RF R2 TKL 55g, modded with Novatouch sliders and rings with MDA caps.
For you - modded r2 45g would be best solution, in my opinion.
Are the SA, MT3 or MDA caps made of PBT? How is their quality compared to the stock Topre caps?
How is their quality compared to the stock Topre caps?
SA (spherical) is super tall and has spherical scoops instead of the standard cylindrical; looks very aesthetic but feels awful. There are Realforce-made boards with SA keycaps called 'high profile' which are very expensive. MT3 is a slightly adjusted SA, MDA is a shorter SA and manages to be equally uncomfortable while being uglier.
I don't remember if it has sharp edges, but the spherical dishes on the keycap surfaces are very comfortable and deep. They are intended to evoke the old beamspring keycaps, but at the correct angle.
@jamster @HungerMechanic @rxc92
Thanks guys for the great info! I am learning a lot in here.
Since I am looking for bigger key caps (with similar quality/feeling or better) than the stock ones of RF TKL R2 PFU edition, do you recommend any? I am considering also buying the variable RF TKL and live with its small key caps till I get used to it :)
@jamster @HungerMechanic @rxc92
Thanks guys for the great info! I am learning a lot in here.
Since I am looking for bigger key caps (with similar quality/feeling or better) than the stock ones of RF TKL R2 PFU edition, do you recommend any? I am considering also buying the variable RF TKL and live with its small key caps till I get used to it :)
Didn't people already say that no such thing exists? Keycaps are already near the maximum size they can be without being cubes. If you want more surface area, that's impossible. If you literally only want a physically larger keycap, then the high profile are 'bigger' because they're much taller.