[SHIPPED] Nexus Alps slider, Nexus Top Housing

[BlindAssassin111]

I dunno, I think 2 months for a project like this is rather quick; you really only see an IC that short when it's for something like running a variant of some keycap set rather than creating an adapter.  I mean hell it took years for topre-to-mx adapters to get anywhere and we still don't have great ones or even anything to use for spacebar stabilizers.

Fair enough, I just happened to solve all issues faster it seems. 

[spuxx]

Great project, I just put in my order! I'm wondering whether there is a way to see the values I filled out in the form, i.e. a link to my entry that I can bookmark for reference?

[BlindAssassin111]

Great project, I just put in my order! I'm wondering whether there is a way to see the values I filled out in the form, i.e. a link to my entry that I can bookmark for reference?

Honestly I don't know if I can do that, never tried so...


Also I want to point out I made a mistake on the form, I meant the stab insert sets come with 16 inserts not 14. Price is the same, just wrong number by accident.

[BlindAssassin111]

Great project, I just put in my order! I'm wondering whether there is a way to see the values I filled out in the form, i.e. a link to my entry that I can bookmark for reference?

I just added that feature, but it only works for orders from now on as I had to add another field just for this purpose. If you want to resubmit, let me know and I will delete your old response.

[jackofclubs]

In for 140 sliders and 70 housings this run through. I hope you don't mind, I sent Quakemz from the topclack stream a quick message to check out this page so he can hopefully cover it in the next stream.

Great renders!

lol, I also emailed them so hopefully with you also contacting them, it will increase the chances of a response/mention. Thank you for the consideration and order.

Just in case he didn't answer you, I just got a PM back, he says it's in the news doc

[BlindAssassin111]

Just in case he didn't answer you, I just got a PM back, he says it's in the news doc

Thank you for the reply, he didn't say anything to me yet, so I appreciate the update. Hopefully the announcement brings a huge amount of people over as we can use every bit we can get.

[jackofclubs]

Hey you mention an issue with cherry/gmk profiles in the topic, but I can't find anywhere that says what the issue is?

[BlindAssassin111]

Hey you mention an issue with cherry/gmk profiles in the topic, but I can't find anywhere that says what the issue is?

It is in the 4th question in the info section of the OP.

So you don't have to look for it:
"If you wish to use GMK you have to further mod the top housings on the side to allow them to fully seat on the slider because they hit the top housing before the last 0.5mm of travel for R3 GMK profile."

[stoic-lemon]

Under what circumstances would I not want to order the housings? If I was going to mod my existing housings? Just trying to figure out if I should order the same number of sliders to housings.

[BlindAssassin111]

Under what circumstances would I not want to order the housings? If I was going to mod my existing housings? Just trying to figure out if I should order the same number of sliders to housings.

Basically if you have mechanical sympathy or no time, buy my housings...Meaning if you don't want to modify the original alps housings because they are vintage, this is a better option. As well it saves you the time needed to mod them. Otherwise you can just modify the vintage housings if you don't care.

[stoic-lemon]

Cool. I'll probably go for the same number of each then. I can't bear to hurt those housings.

[d.caminero]

In for 200 sliders and 70 tops! If price goes lower for tops, I'll put another order for some more 

[rubycrow]

Ordered 130 sliders and 70 housings. Will order 70 more housing if price comes down! Will the original housing work for SA or OEM profile without modification?

[tanvir175]

Placed an order for 140 sliders. If the housings reach the 80 cent mark, I'll consider joining. Don't really need them but at that price point, I'd be down for some in case.

[d.caminero]

Ordered 130 sliders and 70 housings. Will order 70 more housing if price comes down! Will the original housing work for SA or OEM profile without modification?

IIRC the original housing requires modifications for any profile since the stem is a tad bigger than the hole for the slider. On top of that, they require extra modification to use them with cherry profile, not sure about OEM since it's taller but SA does not require this extra modification.

[BlindAssassin111]

Ordered 130 sliders and 70 housings. Will order 70 more housing if price comes down! Will the original housing work for SA or OEM profile without modification?

Thank you for your order! They work great with SA, a ton of room, and OEM, thick ones come close but do not fit even with a stock top housing.

In for 200 sliders and 70 tops! If price goes lower for tops, I'll put another order for some more 

Placed an order for 140 sliders. If the housings reach the 80 cent mark, I'll consider joining. Don't really need them but at that price point, I'd be down for some in case.

Thank y'all for the orders!!!

[BlindAssassin111]

Update:
We are about to pass the 30 hour mark, and we have reached 4100 sliders, 2775 top housings and 38 sets of stab inserts. We are just over a 3rd of the way for the sliders and if the ratio is kept for the top housings to sliders, we should be able to hit the 8000 mark. And if those buying top housings buy an extra 29 on average, we can easily hit the 10,000 mark. So the $0.80 mark is achievable if everything keeps going at the same rate!

[rozakiin]

Update:
We are about to pass the 30 hour mark, and we have reached 4100 sliders, 2775 top housings and 38 sets of stab inserts. We are just over a 3rd of the way for the sliders and if the ratio is kept for the top housings to sliders, we should be able to hit the 8000 mark. And if those buying top housings buy an extra 29 on average, we can easily hit the 10,000 mark. So the $0.80 mark is achievable if everything keeps going at the same rate!

Looking at the price drops of the top housings, if we hit 8000 then we can afford to purchase 10,000 since they are the same cost?

[BlindAssassin111]

Looking at the price drops of the top housings, if we hit 8000 then we can afford to purchase 10,000 since they are the same cost?

Hmm, let me look into it a bit more and I will give you and answer. I just know that the total price is a hundreds more for the 10,000 order. So I need to see how the cost is going to play a role in it.

[garbo]

Update:
We are about to pass the 30 hour mark, and we have reached 4100 sliders, 2775 top housings and 38 sets of stab inserts. We are just over a 3rd of the way for the sliders and if the ratio is kept for the top housings to sliders, we should be able to hit the 8000 mark. And if those buying top housings buy an extra 29 on average, we can easily hit the 10,000 mark. So the $0.80 mark is achievable if everything keeps going at the same rate!

Looking at the price drops of the top housings, if we hit 8000 then we can afford to purchase 10,000 since they are the same cost?

Yeah, I'd noticed that too. Same thing happens at 12,000/14,000.

There are some really weird situations with the pricing because it's so heavily skewed towards funding for the initial tooling. Let's say there are 60 people who want 100 housings - they'd each pay $120. If you instead persuade each person to spend $140, everyone ends up with 234 instead (and obviously more people on the fence would join in, etc). That's why I think this isn't a great way to finance it, and that we'd be better off with some sort of initial upfront investment.

Edit:
To elaborate a bit on this, there are breakpoints when the raised funding is $7,200 (for 6000 housings) $8,000 (for 10,000), $8,400 (for 14,000) and $9,000 (for 18,000). If the top housings are being run as a conventional group buy, I think it makes sense to target one of the higher MOQs from the start and fix the prcing at $0.60 or $0.50. Or maybe people could just declare how much money they would be willing to invest and then see how much you can raise.

By the way, is 18,000 the maximum number of housings that would be produced before the tooling would need replacement?

[BlindAssassin111]

Yeah, I'd noticed that too. Same thing happens at 12,000/14,000.

There are some really weird situations with the pricing because it's so heavily skewed towards funding for the initial tooling. Let's say there are 60 people who want 100 housings - they'd each pay $120. If you instead persuade each person to spend $140, everyone ends up with 234 instead (and obviously more people on the fence would join in, etc). That's why I think this isn't a great way to finance it, and that we'd be better off with some sort of initial upfront investment.

I don't think y'all are looking at it the correct way. If I were to let people pay $0.80 at 8000 quantity, that means I lose $0.20 for each one of those. If it the total is $8000 for the housings, I need that whole amount, selling 8000 at $0.80 would bring in $6400 meaning I lose the remaining $1600, So I would be paying people to have my product. I artificially lowered the price point for 10,000 to help people save money, I actually lose money by selling 10,000 compared to 8,000, as the actual manufacturing cost doesn't drop nearly as much as my selling price does.

If you go look at my Omnikey PCB GB, you will see people mentioning I can sell at the higher price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity(Sell 12 at $47 and buy 15 for $38). I can't sell at the lower price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity, because then I lose a **** ton of money. (Sell 8,000 at $0.80 and buy 10,000 for $0.80)

[garbo]

I don't think y'all are looking at it the correct way. If I were to let people pay $0.80 at 8000 quantity, that means I lose $0.20 for each one of those. If it the total is $8000 for the housings, I need that whole amount, selling 8000 at $0.80 would bring in $6400 meaning I lose the remaining $1600, So I would be paying people to have my product. I artificially lowered the price point for 10,000 to help people save money, I actually lose money by selling 10,000 compared to 8,000, as the actual manufacturing cost doesn't drop nearly as much as my selling price does.

If you go look at my Omnikey PCB GB, you will see people mentioning I can sell at the higher price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity(Sell 12 at $47 and buy 15 for $38). I can't sell at the lower price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity, because then I lose a **** ton of money. (Sell 8,000 at $0.80 and buy 10,000 for $0.80)

Check the numbers again. It would be $0.80 at 10,000 quantity (which is $8000, same as $1.00 at 8,000 - that's why $8,000 is a breakpoint). Load up excel and plot number of sliders vs total cost and it becomes pretty obvious.

[BlindAssassin111]

I don't think y'all are looking at it the correct way. If I were to let people pay $0.80 at 8000 quantity, that means I lose $0.20 for each one of those. If it the total is $8000 for the housings, I need that whole amount, selling 8000 at $0.80 would bring in $6400 meaning I lose the remaining $1600, So I would be paying people to have my product. I artificially lowered the price point for 10,000 to help people save money, I actually lose money by selling 10,000 compared to 8,000, as the actual manufacturing cost doesn't drop nearly as much as my selling price does.

If you go look at my Omnikey PCB GB, you will see people mentioning I can sell at the higher price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity(Sell 12 at $47 and buy 15 for $38). I can't sell at the lower price, for a lower quantity, and buy the higher quantity, because then I lose a **** ton of money. (Sell 8,000 at $0.80 and buy 10,000 for $0.80)

Check the numbers again. It would be $0.80 at 10,000 quantity (which is $8000, same as $1.00 at 8,000 - that's why $8,000 is a breakpoint). Load up excel and plot number of sliders vs total cost and it becomes pretty obvious.

...I have been doing this all in excel, I know the cost. You are basically telling me that I can sell 10,000 at $0.80 each and 8,000 at $1.00 each and those happen to be the same value, but I can't sell 8000 at $0.80 because that is $6400...you are missing that whole issue.

[garbo]

OK, sorry if it was condescending. What I meant in the earlier post is that I think it becomes a bad approach to ask people how many sliders they want when the price is unknown to such an extent. But I guess if you hit 8,000 then you can always just sell the extra 2,000 separately or something. (Because there is no reason to have 8,000 manufactured instead of 10,000).

[a_ak57]

I think what I'm having trouble with is that if we can give you $8000 to buy 8000 sliders, but we can also give you $8000 to buy 10000 sliders, what prevents just ordering the 10k instead of 8k if we're giving you $8000 either way?  The two drop points equal the same amount of money given to you, which is different than how $7200 gets us 6k sliders then the next step is $8k for 8k sliders, but with 8/10 it's $8k then $8k.  Basically say there was 100 people who each ordered 80 sliders, aren't they giving you the same amount of money if they all decided to get 100 sliders instead?

[BlindAssassin111]

OK, sorry if it was condescending. What I meant in the earlier post is that I think it becomes a bad approach to ask people how many sliders they want when the price is unknown to such an extent. But I guess if you hit 8,000 then you can always just sell the extra 2,000 separately or something. (Because there is no reason to have 8,000 manufactured instead of 10,000).

I changed the wording in my post because it came of different than I was meaning, was trying to be nice, not an ass but it came off as the later.

That is how a lot of group buys work actually. You give price points for certain quantities, and people must know that they can end up paying the higher cost, but as more buy the price can go down, It is not a bad approach. I can't afford to pay $1,600 out of pocket so people save money now and hope I can sell the remaining 2000 down the road to make that money back.

[BlindAssassin111]

I think what I'm having trouble with is that if we can give you $8000 to buy 8000 sliders, but we can also give you $8000 to buy 10000 sliders, what prevents just ordering the 10k instead of 8k if we're giving you $8000 either way?  The two drop points equal the same amount of money given to you, which is different than how $7200 gets us 6k sliders then the next step is $8k for 8k sliders, but with 8/10 it's $8k then $8k.  Basically say there was 100 people who each ordered 80 sliders, aren't they giving you the same amount of money if they all decided to get 100 sliders instead?

So basically charge people the $1.00 and then give them more parts than they initially ordered because I can order more for the cost? That is the only way that can work.

[a_ak57]

Well I don't know about that, but I mean at the very least you should order the 10k if we hit $8000 since you can just sell them afterward as a reward for running the buy.  But otherwise yeah, it's a pretty difficult approach without Massdrop's "commit" function since even 20k would be reachable if there was an option to say "well I'd give you $50 for 100 sliders if enough other people agreed to that."  It's a catch 22 really, I think big numbers are actually possible but it requires people actually having faith that others will take the leap of faith too so you're not stuck paying $1.20 per slider (and I'm included in that >_>).

But I suppose that's getting off-topic and lamenting us individuals not having the power of massdrop.

[garbo]

I can see that for a group buy runner without the means to make that kind of investment, this line of reasoning is not too constructive. (Incidentally, I see no reason why you shouldn't be making at least a small profit, though it's ultimately up to you).

To be extra clear about my point of view as a participant of the group buy: I put an order in for some sliders, and ideally would have got the same number of switch tops. I got fewer, because at the lower MOQs it's just too much money. I don't want to file down SKCM brown switches but I figure I can do some of the less valuable types. So I'm basically more flexible on the number of sliders I receive than I am the amount of money I put in.

[BlindAssassin111]

Well I don't know about that, but I mean at the very least you should order the 10k if we hit $8000 since you can just sell them afterward as a reward for running the buy.  But otherwise yeah, it's a pretty difficult approach without Massdrop's "commit" function since even 20k would be reachable if there was an option to say "well I'd give you $50 for 100 sliders if enough other people agreed to that."  It's a catch 22 really, I think big numbers are actually possible but it requires people actually having faith that others will take the leap of faith too so you're not stuck paying $1.20 per slider (and I'm included in that >_>).

But I suppose that's getting off-topic and lamenting us individuals not having the power of massdrop.

Yeah the only way it makes since is to order more and still charge people the $1.00 as there is no other possible way I can logically do this. I wish I had the ability to do a commit at said price like massdrop implemented at some point(only ever bought things from them back before that feature existed), but I have no easy way to do that.

If the others were meaning it the way you worded it, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[tanvir175]

You're all looking at this wrong.

If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.

However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.

By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.

He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.

8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.

BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.

I hope this clears some of this up.

[a_ak57]

Tanvir that makes sense, I guess I'm just operating under the assumption that it wouldn't really be too difficult to sell that extra 2000 since I believe there is more interest than what will actually be shown, it's just that people aren't willing to risk paying $1.20 per slider instead of $0.80 so they don't place any order.  Heck I'd even say that if he were to order the extra $2k, he should charge a bit more as a "retail" price for the in-stock sliders since that's how others GBs operate.  >_>

[BlindAssassin111]

You're all looking at this wrong.

If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.

However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.

By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.

He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.

8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.

BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.

I hope this clears some of this up.

Thank you, You deserve a hug.

Tanvir that makes sense, I guess I'm just operating under the assumption that it wouldn't really be too difficult to sell that extra 2000 since I believe there is more interest than what will actually be shown, it's just that people aren't willing to risk paying $1.20 per slider instead of $0.80 so they don't place any order.  Heck I'd even say that if he were to order the extra $2k, he should charge a bit more as a "retail" price for the in-stock sliders since that's how others GBs operate.  >_>

I am jobless at the moment so I can't afford to front any cost to help people out. I wish I was able to do what y'all are saying. If I knew without a doubt I could sell the last 2000 without a single issue and quickly, I would.

[d.caminero]

You're all looking at this wrong.

If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.

However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.

By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.

He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.

8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.

BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.

I hope this clears some of this up.

I don't get this. You are "changing" the price of the housings in the last step thus having 2000 "extra" sliders.
If we give him $8000 and he can order 10k housings instead of 8k we should receive more housings for our share of those $8k.
If he does not run into loses ordering 10k housings at $8k, we should receive more housings for our same money, because that's exactly what's  happening with the order to the factory.

Maybe I'm lacking some information and the money to make 10k housings is not the same and then he'd need to pay some of the sliders out of his pocket, but if the factory quoted 10k housings and 8k housings at the same price, we should get 10k housings for the price of 8k and receive proportionally more housings for the same money.

[homerowco]

The stabs are 3D printed - the Sliders too? Can you show the prototypes? I'm curious how they are made cause I was looking into MX stem modding Thanks!

[BlindAssassin111]

The stabs are 3D printed - the Sliders too? Can you show the prototypes? I'm curious how they are made cause I was looking into MX stem modding Thanks!

Sliders and top housings will be injection molded. I can't really show the prototypes as they are translucent and my camera isn't able to focus on them at all because of this.

[homerowco]

Sliders and top housings will be injection molded. I can't really show the prototypes as they are translucent and my camera isn't able to focus on them at all because of this.

Just lay them on colored paper and put the housing prototype next to it to have the camera focus on the height. That's how I take pics of transparent stuff - makes things much easier - I use a black sheet of carton.

[tanvir175]

You're all looking at this wrong.

If we reach 8000 MOQ at $1.00 per, BlindAssassin111 is given $8000 of our money to order with. On the other hand, if we reach 10000 MOQ at $0.80 per, he is still given $8000 of our money to order with. Nothing wrong with that, he makes no extra profit or less profit from selling 10000 over 8000.

However, this is the scenario you are thinking of:
Reach 8000 MOQ, raised $8000.
Instead of waiting to reach 10000 MOQ, go ahead and use the $8000 to order 10000.
Sell these 10000 at $0.80 each instead of $1.00 each.

By this point, we have affirmed that 8000*1.00 = 8000 and 10000*0.80 = 8000.
However, let's say this GB has only generated enough interest for 8000 housings and lets say he goes ahead and orders 10000 housings.

He will now sell 8000, as this is the only amount of interest generated, but at the 10000 price.

8000*0.80 = 6400. And now he has 2000 housings left which total up 1600 if sold at 0.80.
Remember that we only generated enough interest for 8000, though. This means he is left with 2000 that will not sell. At least, not right away.

BlindAssassin111 is a person, not a vendor. He is not able to afford to let go of $1600 in the hopes that he will eventually make it back over time of selling the remaining 2000.

I hope this clears some of this up.

I don't get this. You are "changing" the price of the housings in the last step thus having 2000 "extra" sliders.
If we give him $8000 and he can order 10k housings instead of 8k we should receive more housings for our share of those $8k.
If he does not run into loses ordering 10k housings at $8k, we should receive more housings for our same money, because that's exactly what's  happening with the order to the factory.

Maybe I'm lacking some information and the money to make 10k housings is not the same and then he'd need to pay some of the sliders out of his pocket, but if the factory quoted 10k housings and 8k housings at the same price, we should get 10k housings for the price of 8k and receive proportionally more housings for the same money.

What people wanted him to do is to buy the 10000 amount and sell it at the 10000 amount, hence why I am changing the price at the end to $0.80 but I put in the assumption that we only reach 8000 interested. That is because people want him to buy the 10000 if we reach the 8000.

What I would recommend blindassasain111 to do, is to buy the 10000 anyways and continue to sell them at $1.00. This leaves him with 2000 extra sliders after the assumed 8000 interested are sold, meaning more profit for him.

The below is all speculation so take it for what you will. I won't pretend I know how BlindAssassin111 is running this GB.

Realize this point, at least. The manufacturer would not quote 8000 and 10000 at the same price point. If they did, that would be plain stupid on their part. Why would anyone order the lower amount if both costed the same?
Sometimes you will get way more bang for your buck with ordering more. For example, I wanted to try ordering some Kwark PCBs from JLCPCB. I don't remember exact prices but at 5 moq, I pay maybe $30, $6 each. At 10 moq I paid $45, $4.5 each. I'm paying less per unit but the manufacturer is still getting more of my money. The prices aren't exact but the ratios are similar to what I remember.
Now, with BlindAssassin111's OP, some are assuming that is the manufacturer quoted prices. There's just no way because of what I explained earlier. You may get heavy per unit price drops but you'll still be paying more overall. What you're seeing happen between the 8000 and 10000 moq mark is the OP taking a loss in profit for the benefit of the consumers. He wants us to have better prices with little consideration to the profit he himself is making. That is why the price of 8000 and 10000 units are the "same."

[homerowco]

Realize this point, at least. The manufacturer would not quote 8000 and 10000 at the same price point. If they did, that would be plain stupid on their part. Why would anyone order the lower amount if both costed the same?
Sometimes you will get way more bang for your buck with ordering more. For example, I wanted to try ordering some Kwark PCBs from JLCPCB. I don't remember exact prices but at 5 moq, I pay maybe $30, $6 each. At 10 moq I paid $45, $4.5 each. I'm paying less per unit but the manufacturer is still getting more of my money. The prices aren't exact but the ratios are similar to what I remember.
Now, with BlindAssassin111's OP, some are assuming that is the manufacturer quoted prices. There's just no way because of what I explained earlier. You may get heavy per unit price drops but you'll still be paying more overall. What you're seeing happen between the 8000 and 10000 moq mark is the OP taking a loss in profit for the benefit of the consumers. He wants us to have better prices with little consideration to the profit he himself is making. That is why the price of 8000 and 10000 units are the "same."

Your examples all apply to per unit production like when you make your own case or PCB - with plastic injection you pay for the molds first then the per "piece" production is a tiny fraction of that cost - the parts are very tiny hence I assume its not more than $1-1.5k per mold - that's $3k together for housing and stem - assumption would be each mold makes maybe 9/16/25/36 at the same time or even more. lets say it's just 16 at the same time, that's 625 injection runs each for 10,000 each. each single piece might end up costing anywhere between 0.5 and 10 cents. lets say worst is 10 cents each. so to finance 10,000 pieces each you need $2,000 for the production cost and $3k for the molds which is combined $5,000 - now we need to ship those, they're tiny so I would assume less than a max of $200 via DHL if the company is in China - that's $5.2k - he probably is in the US so he can skip the import taxes and sales import tax as private person - now when he sells them he also does not have to add a sales tax as company unless he sells it to someone in his own state. We want to make sure he can eat some food and make more stuff for which he needs prototyping money so we double the price and round it to $10,400 sales price for 10,000 each housing and stem. that's $0.52 per piece.

I can see where the high price comes from, because the molds need to be paid off. the downside here is that this isn't scalable - I don't even think there are that many alps guys around to get the lowest MOQ filled (I didnt check where it is atm). So yeah, it comes down to financing the molds. In a perfect world he would be able to sell a few thousand every week and the price would be 5 cents a stem... but that won't happen with such a extremely small group of people that would be interested in it. I would get some but I just can't justify it at that price :/


EDIT:

Top housings:

• QTY 6,000: $1.20
• QTY 8,000: $1.00
• QTY 10,000: $0.80
• QTY 12,000: $0.70
• QTY 16,000: $0.60
• QTY 20,000: $0.50

I guess I added either too much margin or you forgot shipping cost close though

[tanvir175]

Realize this point, at least. The manufacturer would not quote 8000 and 10000 at the same price point. If they did, that would be plain stupid on their part. Why would anyone order the lower amount if both costed the same?
Sometimes you will get way more bang for your buck with ordering more. For example, I wanted to try ordering some Kwark PCBs from JLCPCB. I don't remember exact prices but at 5 moq, I pay maybe $30, $6 each. At 10 moq I paid $45, $4.5 each. I'm paying less per unit but the manufacturer is still getting more of my money. The prices aren't exact but the ratios are similar to what I remember.
Now, with BlindAssassin111's OP, some are assuming that is the manufacturer quoted prices. There's just no way because of what I explained earlier. You may get heavy per unit price drops but you'll still be paying more overall. What you're seeing happen between the 8000 and 10000 moq mark is the OP taking a loss in profit for the benefit of the consumers. He wants us to have better prices with little consideration to the profit he himself is making. That is why the price of 8000 and 10000 units are the "same."

Your examples all apply to per unit production like when you make your own case or PCB - with plastic injection you pay for the molds first then the per "piece" production is a tiny fraction of that cost - the parts are very tiny hence I assume its not more than $1-1.5k per mold - that's $3k together for housing and stem - assumption would be each mold makes maybe 9/16/25/36 at the same time or even more. lets say it's just 16 at the same time, that's 625 injection runs each for 10,000 each. each single piece might end up costing anywhere between 0.5 and 10 cents. lets say worst is 10 cents each. so to finance 10,000 pieces each you need $2,000 for the production cost and $3k for the molds which is combined $5,000 - now we need to ship those, they're tiny so I would assume less than a max of $200 via DHL if the company is in China - that's $5.2k - he probably is in the US so he can skip the import taxes and sales import tax as private person - now when he sells them he also does not have to add a sales tax as company unless he sells it to someone in his own state. We want to make sure he can eat some food and make more stuff for which he needs prototyping money so we double the price and round it to $10,400 sales price for 10,000 each housing and stem. that's $0.52 per piece.

I can see where the high price comes from, because the molds need to be paid off. the downside here is that this isn't scalable - I don't even think there are that many alps guys around to get the lowest MOQ filled (I didnt check where it is atm). So yeah, it comes down to financing the molds. In a perfect world he would be able to sell a few thousand every week and the price would be 5 cents a stem... but that won't happen with such a extremely small group of people that would be interested in it. I would get some but I just can't justify it at that price :/


EDIT:

Top housings:

• QTY 6,000: $1.20
• QTY 8,000: $1.00
• QTY 10,000: $0.80
• QTY 12,000: $0.70
• QTY 16,000: $0.60
• QTY 20,000: $0.50

I guess I added either too much margin or you forgot shipping cost close though

You're right. I'm no expert in this subject, I was just giving a somewhat comparable scenario. I agree the prices aren't the best but it's a necessary evil in this niche hobby within an already somewhat niche hobby(alps within MK's), especially given tooling costs. Best case scenario would have been to have some vendors pick up a ton but idk how likely that is. Hopefully, TopClack gives this a shoutout and we see a large increase in orders.

I would like to say that BlindAssassin111 did give us the price of tooling and he said it was around $6000. I don't know if this is each or total for the two.

[homerowco]

You're right. I'm no expert in this subject, I was just giving a somewhat comparable scenario. I agree the prices aren't the best but it's a necessary evil in this niche hobby within an already somewhat niche hobby(alps within MK's), especially given tooling costs. Best case scenario would have been to have some vendors pick up a ton but idk how likely that is. Hopefully, TopClack gives this a shoutout and we see a large increase in orders.

Yeah, it's just that there aren't that many into Alps due to lack of keycaps I think. It always feels like it's a completely different world and a strange niche within a niche... even with a shoutout, topclack reaches maybe 200-300 people so if 20% of those people would order some, which would be insane, it would still only be 7,200 stems and housings.

I would like to say that BlindAssassin111 did give us the price of tooling and he said it was around $6000. I don't know if this is each or total for the two.

Must be both and even then it's a lot. I once ran a quote for a whole two part 60% case and it was $7,000 for the molds and then each unit would've been $7 iirc and that included cleaning and post processing.

Either way, you can see that even with half for each it comes out at the same price with 100% margin... if he pays more for the molds then it just means he makes less profit. Not complaining about the price btw. - can't make that any cheaper since there is just not enough market to drive down the total. Totally different scenario with MX, but the people who produce for MX never changed the initial GB prices which is pretty sad too.

[BlindAssassin111]

As a response to both of you, tanvir175 and homerowco. I barely make anything on the top housings, I can't get them nearly as cheap as the slider because I wan't able to get a vendor to help me. Each mold costs ~$6k so keep that in mind, they are small but that means harder to manufacture as they need to use more expensive manufacturing methods, like EDM, to get the small features.

[stoic-lemon]

Did anyone send a message to KBDFans?

[concinnus]

As neat as this is, there are a couple things for it to be usable for me, personally (I'll keep my eye out for another round):
 - Are the sliders the same as ALPS thickness so that the leaves exert the same return force?  I did a page search and didn't see this mentioned.  The slider looks thicker, and I don't need my browns to be any stiffer.
 - How tight are the slider/top tolerances?  Browns are very tight, while later types and Matias allow too much wobble in the caps for my taste.
 - Slots for ALPS dampened/Matias quiet bumpers.  Slots could be added and just left open for folks who like clacking.

Thanks.

[unmuscular_michael]

Just wanted to clarify - this is an 11,000 MOQ for just the stems, then another 6/8/10k for the top housings? I am hoping this goes through because I want to give ALPS a fair shake.

[BlindAssassin111]

As neat as this is, there are a couple things for it to be usable for me, personally (I'll keep my eye out for another round):
 - Are the sliders the same as ALPS thickness so that the leaves exert the same return force?  I did a page search and didn't see this mentioned.  The slider looks thicker, and I don't need my browns to be any stiffer.
 - How tight are the slider/top tolerances?  Browns are very tight, while later types and Matias allow too much wobble in the caps for my taste.
 - Slots for ALPS dampened/Matias quiet bumpers.  Slots could be added and just left open for folks who like clacking.

Thanks.

1) The sliders are the same thickness as alps sliders.
2) The clearance of the sliders is very similar to that of Browns, so it will wobble about the exact same.
3) I can't include the slots for dampened alps/matias switches because that actually changes the travel of the switch when not installed as there is no material in place to hit the bump stops. Effectively raising the travel of the switch to about 4mm.

[BlindAssassin111]

Just wanted to clarify - this is an 11,000 MOQ for just the stems, then another 6/8/10k for the top housings? I am hoping this goes through because I want to give ALPS a fair shake.

Yes your are correct about MOQ.

[waldorf120]

I'm in for 260 sliders and tops Super stoked about all the possibilities this will open up!

[Rob27shred]

Gotta say this an awesome ideal! I'm in for just 50 sliders & 2 sets of the stabilizer inserts. I'm tempted to order more, but I just got one ALPS board as of right now. Also I only really need one slider & 2 of the stab inserts so I can get the whole Tai-Hao Dolch set I got for it to cover.

Speaking of that does anyone know if Tai-Hao's MX 3800 stepped caps lock keys have a centered or proper off centered stem on them? On their website it looks like they are centered to work with a normal spacing for Caps Lock keys? Want to figure it out before I order one since it would be a huge waste of money for me if they have centered stems.

[Albatross]

Hey, forgive me if this has been asked before but will Cherry stabilizers work with these? Just making sure as I'm gonna need to know if I need have a special plate made.