Starting a custom keyboard

[grips]

First of all, let me apologize for my naivete on the whole subject. I'm still very new to the keyboard community, but somewhere in the past week while perusing keyboards I slipped and fell into the deep end, and now I can't stop thinking about keyboards. There are a lot of details regarding them that I am not experienced with.

For that reason, I wanted to ask for some advice in planning out a custom keyboard. When I say custom, I don't mean original in any way. I would just like to grab some PCB, slap some switches and a plate onto it and put it in a case. Of course, I really don't know what I'm talking about when I say all that, but I would like to have put together my own keyboard in a big way.

With that in mind, is there any point of beginning that would be more ideal? Do I start thinking about a PCB first and then layering the other components on top of it? I'm also not sure what the sum necessary parts of a keyboard would be. I would like to be able to remove the switches without desoldering, though (the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread mentioned this was possible), just so I can disassemble the board to try other things with it at some point.

Again, I apologize if there was a thread I missed that addressed these kinds of things. There is a lot of info in the forum and I got a little excited.

[Photekq]

What kind of layout do you want? 60%, tenkeyless or fullsize? Once we know the layout you want we can start to help.

[grips]

What kind of layout do you want? 60%, tenkeyless or fullsize? Once we know the layout you want we can start to help.

I'd like a tenkeyless for this project.

[Photekq]

What kind of layout do you want? 60%, tenkeyless or fullsize? Once we know the layout you want we can start to help.

I'd like a tenkeyless for this project.

These parts would allow you to build a TKL yourself :

Phantom PCB - A PCB created by bathroom epiphanies who is a member here at GH. There was recently a group buy run for this PCB so you may find someone selling it in the classifieds section.
Teensy 2.0 Controller - http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/
Phantom plate with your chosen layout - Allows you to take the top off switches without desoldering. Again, you will need to find someone selling one.
Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless case - The Phantom is designed to fit in this case. There are a few cases that are very similar such as the PLU87 and HPE87 cases.
Cherry MX Switches of any colour
Screwdriver
Soldering iron & solder
Set of keycaps

Instuctions for the phantom can be found here.

[grips]

What kind of layout do you want? 60%, tenkeyless or fullsize? Once we know the layout you want we can start to help.

I'd like a tenkeyless for this project.

These parts would allow you to build a TKL yourself :

Phantom PCB - A PCB created by bathroom epiphanies who is a member here at GH. There was recently a group buy run for this PCB so you may find someone selling it in the classifieds section.
Teensy 2.0 Controller - http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/
Phantom plate with your chosen layout - Allows you to take the top off switches without desoldering. Again, you will need to find someone selling one.
Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless case - The Phantom is designed to fit in this case. There are a few cases that are very similar such as the PLU87 and HPE87 cases.
Cherry MX Switches of any colour
Screwdriver
Soldering iron & solder
Set of keycaps

Instuctions for the phantom can be found here.

Thanks, Photekq. I will take a look at everything.

[Photekq]

Thanks, Photekq. I will take a look at everything.

No problem. Let me know if you need anything else. I'll do my best to answer any questions you have.

[grips]

Thanks, Photekq. I will take a look at everything.

No problem. Let me know if you need anything else. I'll do my best to answer any questions you have.

I appreciate it! I'm actually taking a look at your aluminum case and it looks awesome!

[grips]

I don't suppose there is some kind of compilation of plates somewhere, is there? For comparing their attributes.

[Photekq]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39410.0

The standard layout in the US is ANSI125. ANSI150 has 1.5x bottom modifiers instead of 1.25 which allows some older Cherry keycap sets to be used.

Same goes for ISO but ISO is the european layout.

Other layouts are user-made.

[grips]

Are the two options for mounting switches PCB-mounted and plate-mounted? If it is plate-mounted, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not soldered to the PCB, but it's a possibility?

If I wanted some kind of a 'modular' setup, is it possible to get plate-mounted switches that need not be soldered to the PCB so that the plate with the switches can be lifted out of the case/off the PCB or am I completely wrong?

[Photekq]

Are the two options for mounting switches PCB-mounted and plate-mounted? If it is plate-mounted, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not soldered to the PCB, but it's a possibility?

If I wanted some kind of a 'modular' setup, is it possible to get plate-mounted switches that need not be soldered to the PCB so that the plate with the switches can be lifted out of the case/off the PCB or am I completely wrong?

You're wrong I'm afraid. Regardless of whether the switches are pcb or plate mounted they must be soldered.

The only thing that is modular is the fact that the Phantom plates use WhiteFireDragon's custom switch hole design. This allows you to take the top half of the switch off without desoldering. Because of this you can change the spring and stem, which are the only parts of the switch which differ between colours.

[grips]

Okay, understood. Please tell me if I'm wrong with this info:

1. PCB-mounted switches just mean they are mounted to the PCB so a plate is not necessarily required
2. Plates offer more stability for the keyboard (switches?)
3. Some switches mount to the plate instead, but still soldered to the PCB

[Photekq]

Okay, understood. Please tell me if I'm wrong with this info:

1. PCB-mounted switches just mean they are mounted to the PCB so a plate is not necessarily required
2. Plates offer more stability for the keyboard (switches?)
3. Some switches mount to the plate instead, but still soldered to the PCB

All correct. One thing I'd like to clarify.

There are two types of Cherry MX switches : Plate mount and PCB mount.

The only difference is that the PCB mount switches have two plastic pins on the base to add some stability

Plate mount switches are only for use with plates. They will be unstable if used for PCB mount.
PCB mount switches can be used for both PCB and plate mount IF the pcb has holes for the plastic pins.
The Phantom PCB does not have these holes so you must use plate mounting.

[alaricljs]

PCB mount switches can be used for both PCB and plate mount IF the pcb has holes for the plastic pins.
The Phantom PCB does not have these holes so you must use plate mounting.

Or you can easily cut the 2 plastic pins off the bottom if the PCB does not have the holes.

[Photekq]

PCB mount switches can be used for both PCB and plate mount IF the pcb has holes for the plastic pins.
The Phantom PCB does not have these holes so you must use plate mounting.

Or you can easily cut the 2 plastic pins off the bottom if the PCB does not have the holes.

Forgot to mention that. Thanks.

[grips]

PCB mount switches can be used for both PCB and plate mount IF the pcb has holes for the plastic pins.
The Phantom PCB does not have these holes so you must use plate mounting.

Or you can easily cut the 2 plastic pins off the bottom if the PCB does not have the holes.

Forgot to mention that. Thanks.

Thanks, guys! That helps clarify things a lot for me. I'm sure I'll have more questions, but that helped solidify in my mind a lot of what I was reading. It also gives me a better idea of what parts I need to be looking at. The GH75 project that samwisekoi is working on looks like something I would be interested in.

[grips]

I really like the KMAC keyboards. They are so clean and just look like a pleasure to type on. The anodized aluminum, especially, give the keyboard a very refined feel.

I think I will purchase a switch sampler pack from wasdkeyboards to find my ideal switch and be on the lookout for some kind of nice aluminum case. I'll have to find a compatible plate/PCB afterward.

[Acetrak]

If you're going forward with a custom mx Cherry board I'd highly recommend you to explore different custom switches besides the common 4, try different custom spring/stem combinations, as well as spending some extra time to lube the switches (except if you want clicky switches).

The above will really complete a fully custom board.

[grips]

If you're going forward with a custom mx Cherry board I'd highly recommend you to explore different custom switches besides the common 4, try different custom spring/stem combinations, as well as spending some extra time to lube the switches (except if you want clicky switches).

The above will really complete a fully custom board.

Indeed, I saw the thread about how to lube your switches. But, you think that if I like the clicky switches I shouldn't really bother with lubing? Could you elaborate on that?

I do like the Cherry MX blues, but they are the only ones that I've had any experience with so far. This is after spending 4 years on a Unicomp Classic. From what I've been reading, I think I may enjoy the clears a little better. Simply because the blues are nice, but maybe sliiiightly too easy to press.

I did just order a switch sampler from wasdkeyboards.com so I should get a better idea on which basic switch I like. It looks like they only have blue, brown, black, and red from the product image. I was hoping to get a clear switch as well.

[grips]

Can I buy clear switches from an online store or do I need to purchase those off of someone in the forum? I'd like to test them out.

[Photekq]

I really like the KMAC keyboards. They are so clean and just look like a pleasure to type on. The anodized aluminum, especially, give the keyboard a very refined feel.

I think I will purchase a switch sampler pack from wasdkeyboards to find my ideal switch and be on the lookout for some kind of nice aluminum case. I'll have to find a compatible plate/PCB afterward.

If you want an aluminium case then there are a few options.
The KMAC 2 from Originative is a DIY board. It'll come with the case, PCB and plate. You'll need to find switches.
Phetto is currently selling a really nice aluminium case by MKC. This case is compatible with the Phantom PCB that I mentioned before.
There are lots of aluminium case projects for 60% boards, and as you have already seen I'm doing one for a TKL PCBs such as the Phantom. These vary in price, so it all depends on how much you want to spend.

Like Acetrak has said it would be wise to try a large amount of switch combinations before deciding on one. For example ergo-clears which are clears but with a lighter spring. Lubing can also make a large difference to a switch.

If you want to order switches you can either look in the classifieds or preorder them from 7bit over on Deskthority.

[grips]

I really like the KMAC keyboards. They are so clean and just look like a pleasure to type on. The anodized aluminum, especially, give the keyboard a very refined feel.

I think I will purchase a switch sampler pack from wasdkeyboards to find my ideal switch and be on the lookout for some kind of nice aluminum case. I'll have to find a compatible plate/PCB afterward.

If you want an aluminium case then there are a few options.
The KMAC 2 from Originative is a DIY board. It'll come with the case, PCB and plate. You'll need to find switches.
Phetto is currently selling a really nice aluminium case by MKC. This case is compatible with the Phantom PCB that I mentioned before.
There are lots of aluminium case projects for 60% boards, and as you have already seen I'm doing one for a TKL PCBs such as the Phantom. These vary in price, so it all depends on how much you want to spend.

Like Acetrak has said it would be wise to try a large amount of switch combinations before deciding on one. For example ergo-clears which are clears but with a lighter spring. Lubing can also make a large difference to a switch.

If you want to order switches you can either look in the classifieds or preorder them from 7bit over on Deskthority.

Do you know what the 'NW' suffix is for the switches on that Deskthority link?

I was looking to pick up some 62g springs from Originative to see if that would stiffen up these blues I have a little bit. I'm waiting to hear back how many are included in an order. Acetrak mentioned that I should try lubing my switches unless I wanted clicky ones. I wasn't quite sure what he meant. I guess just that the process of lubing them itself would make the switches less clicky? I wouldn't mind that.

The clears sound like they are what I would want ideally, so I would like to try some but they seem to be a little harder to get a hold of. I think I will make my Ducky board my project board for now and try to get some 62g springs into it and lube it as well. I should be able to handle that, right?

[Acetrak]

Yes lubing the stem of clicky switches will lose the click.

[SmallFry]

Not always. MMB used to lube clicky switches. I don't recall how though.

[Photekq]

Do you know what the 'NW' suffix is for the switches on that Deskthority link?

I was looking to pick up some 62g springs from Originative to see if that would stiffen up these blues I have a little bit. I'm waiting to hear back how many are included in an order. Acetrak mentioned that I should try lubing my switches unless I wanted clicky ones. I wasn't quite sure what he meant. I guess just that the process of lubing them itself would make the switches less clicky? I wouldn't mind that.

The clears sound like they are what I would want ideally, so I would like to try some but they seem to be a little harder to get a hold of. I think I will make my Ducky board my project board for now and try to get some 62g springs into it and lube it as well. I should be able to handle that, right?

The ones with /NW on the end are PCB mount switches with the two plastic pins. The ones without are plate mount switches.

The 62g springs on Originative are around the same as the springs in your blues. They're korean springs not original Cherry ones. This isn't a bad thing, it just means the resistance is measured at a different point - I can't remember the details exactly, I'll try and find a forum post for you later. Basically, if you want heavier springs buy the 80g ones from originative. I believe they'll be similar to the springs found in the heavier Cherry switches such as black & clears.

There is currently a clear plate mount switch group buy being held here so you might want to get in on that. You will be waiting a long time if you order from 7bit.

[Acetrak]

I think MMB lubed the sliders only, not the stem

[grips]

Do you know what the 'NW' suffix is for the switches on that Deskthority link?

I was looking to pick up some 62g springs from Originative to see if that would stiffen up these blues I have a little bit. I'm waiting to hear back how many are included in an order. Acetrak mentioned that I should try lubing my switches unless I wanted clicky ones. I wasn't quite sure what he meant. I guess just that the process of lubing them itself would make the switches less clicky? I wouldn't mind that.

The clears sound like they are what I would want ideally, so I would like to try some but they seem to be a little harder to get a hold of. I think I will make my Ducky board my project board for now and try to get some 62g springs into it and lube it as well. I should be able to handle that, right?

The ones with /NW on the end are PCB mount switches with the two plastic pins. The ones without are plate mount switches.

The 62g springs on Originative are around the same as the springs in your blues. They're korean springs not original Cherry ones. This isn't a bad thing, it just means the resistance is measured at a different point - I can't remember the details exactly, I'll try and find a forum post for you later. Basically, if you want heavier springs buy the 80g ones from originative. I believe they'll be similar to the springs found in the heavier Cherry switches such as black & clears.

There is currently a clear plate mount switch group buy being held here so you might want to get in on that. You will be waiting a long time if you order from 7bit.

Difficult decision. I'm not sure that I'm ready to buy that many clears without knowing how they feel... I suppose I could always turn around and sell them if I don't need or like them.

Hate to miss the opportunity to pick up the clears, but I think I may focus on getting heavier springs for the blues since I already have a working keyboard using them.

[grips]

Yes lubing the stem of clicky switches will lose the click.

The click being the tactile feel or the sound? Or both?

I think MMB lubed the sliders only, not the stem

The stem is the part that mates with the spring?

[ishtob]

not too sure what you mean by mate, but stem is the plastic part that sitting on top of the spring, actually triggers the switch, and is connected to the keycaps

[SmallFry]

I think MMB lubed the sliders only, not the stem

I don't follow. The stem being the part that comes out below the clicker?

[Acetrak]

^Yeah, sorry about the poor choice in wording.

But in his old guide: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332.msg632915#msg632915 you can see that he doesn't lube the bottom part (where the spring touches) compare to other switches when lubing. I'm not sure if there are better ways to do this now, but I've heard from people about losing their click with lubed blues/greens.

[SmallFry]

Interesting.  I'll have to test it with some of my blues.

[grips]

^Yeah, sorry about the poor choice in wording.

But in his old guide: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332.msg632915#msg632915 you can see that he doesn't lube the bottom part (where the spring touches) compare to other switches when lubing. I'm not sure if there are better ways to do this now, but I've heard from people about losing their click with lubed blues/greens.

Ah, yes, I did come across this guide. I didn't pay attention to the poster's name, though, so hearing MMB didn't click in my head. It pretty much answers all my questions, thanks.

I haven't even gotten around to lubing my springs, yet I'm thinking about what Topre switches are like. I need to calm down.