Source for individual scissor-style switches?

[hoosieree]

This is my first post on geekhack, hello!

I've tried mechanical keyswitches (Cherry MX Clears, whatever's in the Kinesis Advantage) but never liked the feel.  I do like the Apple aluminum keyboards, which I use at work, and my Samsung Chromebook's keyboard, which I use at home.  Both of these use scissor switches.

Now, I'd like to DIY my own keyboard.  Probably something similar to an Ergodox in terms of the major features (i.e. split, tent-able, thumb clusters).  However, it's gotta have scissor switches.

For what it's worth, these are my complaints about the mechanical switches I've used so far, in order of importance:

Too much side-to-side wiggle.
Too loud.
Too much vertical travel

So, while I'm asking for a source of scissor switches, I'd also be interested in more traditional mechanical switches that address the above complaints.

Thanks!

[Leslieann]

To my knowledge, nothing like what you want, exists.

The closest you can get off the shelf is going to be Alps, since they have a shorter throw than Cherry, however the difference is minimal. The closest you will get to scissors is Jailhouse Blues (JBs) which are a Cherry Blue switch modded to be short travel (almost half).  Form there you can tune the springs to right amount of pressure you want. Add in some o-rings, possibly stacked, and you will end up with something sort of in the neighborhood of scissor switches.

Jailhouse blues are probably the most intense mod you can do to a mechanical keyboard. On most boards it means desoldering every switch, opening it, wrapping something around the stem, then making sure there is no drag before, adjusting the springs by trimming, and then putting it all back into the keyboard. These are fickle, so get them tuned the way you want, and verify they are working properly before you re-install them, otherwise you may be redoing the whole process on any stuck switches.

As far as other complaints go,
Travel, as mentioned is the main reason for JB's
Side to side wiggle, the longer stem resulting from locking them in the down position makes them wiggle less than normal Cherry keys.
JBs are quieter than Blues, louder than reds, about twice as loud as scissor switches. They are far from silent, but nowhere near normal Blues. In an office with lots of people I doubt it would be an issue as ambient noise would hide most of it but in a quiet room, it will be noisy. If you lube them with a thick grease, and use thicker springs they can be a bit quieter, the Trampoline Mod can also help quiet them down a bit more. Do NOT use thick grease and stiff springs, as the tactile bump on blues will case them to not return on release.

They are still not a scissor switch, but in some ways they are better, in others worse.

[hoosieree]

Interesting, I'll check those out.  My fallback plan is to buy a couple cheapish scissor keyboards and turn them 90° like Oobly's project.

[hoosieree]

How close would the Topre short-throws or the Cherry ML series be to what I'm after?

[sinusoid]

My opinion: avoid Cherry ML like fire if you like scissors.
They are scrapey, wobbly, dull, and all-round enraging to type on. You can get better rubberdomes IMVHO. 
I used scissors for the past >decade (Logitech UltraX as mainboard, IBM Thinkpads as mobile/fallback) and got ML out of curiosity. Never again.

You can try modding a spare keyboard. Cut it up into individual switches and solder stuff to paths - or make contact pads if that can't be done.

I was minorly successful in 3d printing a scissor mechanism for a leaf spring switch before I went all Datahand, it worked, was nice... like a scissor with a click. Used FDM, but if you ordered this stuff powder-printed from Nylon or sth at Shapeways, you could actually make one yourself easily. You'll run into issues with getting the rubbers, though, so my best bet is to cut up one of the ready boards. Or redesign for scissors around an existing switch.

Bug me if you want to go the 3d printing route and I'll try to get some photos made.

I pulled springs from Cherry G81, this is interesting if you can get one cheaply. Travel is next to none, and they're extremely light. Different than scissors, but then again, different from almost everything else I typed on. Interesting though. Fast, light, and unforgiving like hell.

I'd go for the cut-up. If you goof something up, you just buy a bulk of used keyboards of your specific type and try over and over again. 

[hoosieree]

Very interested in the scissor-enhanced leaf spring approach, please do post pictures! I've started cutting up a non-scissor regular rubber dome/membrane keyboard.  The ideas I have in mind should apply equally to scissor keyboards.

I'll probably avoid trying to source rare switches.  When I do projects like this I like to publish my results and make sure they're reproducible.

[kurplop]

I used ML's on my Alumaplop and they worked out well, given my objectives. I like the reduced travel and the closer spacing. They are about half the bulk as an MX making them great for portable use. They don't feel as robust as most mechanicals but I've grown to prefer them. They are less friendly to off center strikes but I don't often notice that anymore. I'm not sure if they are getting less finicky with time or if I've gotten more accurate. They do feel smoother as they wear in. 

I also like scissor switches and would consider using them if they were easy to integrate into a custom keyboard.             

Best wishes on your project and welcome to GH.

[hoosieree]

Thanks kurplop, your project is definitely an inspiration for me, particularly as an example that a DIY board can look like a premium instrument.  I'm planning to integrate a pointing device but not sure what yet.

[sinusoid]

@hoosieree
OK, here it goes.

This is how they look like. The cap is pretty high on this one, because I glued it from several parts available as a really fast mockup. It also has a bottom case that covers the pins so I could press it without punching holes in my thumb.



Here you see the lever with hinges disassembled


And here are the measurements:



This is how they compare to Cherry ML:



I didn't design the top hinge/attachment, built it mainly to test the feel and principle. It's much better than Cherry ML in my opinion, more crisp than standard rubberdome scissors (without that soft bouncy feel from the rubberdome). Very light, and it has a very nice sound, resonating in the thin walls of the little case I made for it.


If you need more info, let me know! I have the original Blender files for it, I'll try to find them later and upload. Plz bump in a week or so if I forget and you need them.

[hoosieree]

@sinusoid nice job!  Do they make a zipping sound when the cap slides over the base? How does the cap stay on?  Or: yes, that would be great if you could post the files.

@Leslieann, that is pretty labor intensive.  Maybe slightly more so than 3d printing a custom scissor like sinusoid here.

I guess there's not much alternative to trying all the options to see how they feel.