A few questions... M13 vs. EnduraPro

[bhtooefr]

Let's start with the big one... I've read in multiple places that Unicomp isn't using a true TrackPoint mechanism, but rather a mechanism of their own development, for the pointing stick on the EnduraPro. True or not?

(If that isn't true, and it's a real TrackPoint II in there, then there aren't any true dealbreakers on the EnduraPro...)

Now, next question... I've read in some places that it's possible to call Unicomp and request a black/black model, rather than the black/silver or white/white model available on the Unicomp site. True? I'd prefer an all-black board, and that might sway me to the M13 if I can't get the EnduraPro in black/black. (I've already ordered a white M13 that'll probably end up being used at work.)

In the EnduraPro's favor, it's in the Unicomp SpaceSaver chassis, and it's 104-key (which will make using it with my Mac easier - remapping for 101-key is slightly annoying.) Oh, and built-in USB.

[iMav]

Let's start with the big one... I've read in multiple places that Unicomp isn't using a true TrackPoint mechanism, but rather a mechanism of their own development, for the pointing stick on the EnduraPro. True or not?

I've read in some places that it's possible to call Unicomp and request a black/black model, rather than the black/silver or white/white model available on the Unicomp site. True?

I suggest you give them a call.  Jim Owens from Unicomp should be able to set you straight.

[bhtooefr]

Well, I know you have an EnduraPro 104... so I'll go ahead and ask you... how does it compare to the TrackPoints in ThinkPads? I believe it doesn't have the negative intertia feature (but the M13 doesn't have that, either,) and I know it doesn't have the middle button (again, something the M13 also doesn't have,) but other than that? (And, seeing as it'll mainly get used on my Mac, even two buttons would be nice. )

[fkeidjn]

This page should answer your question about the Unicomp trackpoint vs the IBM trackpoint.

[bhtooefr]

OK, so then... how are they different in actual usage? Because, if they're not noticeably different, then it'll be no big deal.

Then again, part of me just wants to get a Unicomp board to see how they are, so maybe I'll do that - white M13 (if the place ever ships it... at least they haven't taken my money yet, either,) black (hopefully all-black, but...) EnduraPro...

[fkeidjn]

Here's another article that talks about the Unicomp trackpoint.  I haven't tried the Unicomp trackpoint, yet.

[bhtooefr]

Hrm... wigglier...

I guess, worst case, I blow $99, and I have another clicky keyboard with a red dot in the middle. I will have a real M13, after all... (and if this place never ships my white one out, I'll get a black one, and then have a black M13 AND an EnduraPro! Muahahaha!)

[iMav]

Hrm... wigglier...

I wouldn't say wigglier.  There is noticeably more play in the trackpoint on the EnduraPro.  Or, rather, it simply travels more than an actual trackpoint.  It's not loose at all and is very responsive.  I have no complaints...however, I also haven't used mine on a consistent basis.

If the Mighty Mouse replacement is as portable as I hope it will be, I will likely use one of them quite a bit.

[xsphat]

If the Mighty Mouse replacement is as portable as I hope it will be, I will likely use one of them quite a bit.

That will be the first Track Point I've ever used.

[iMav]

That will be the first Track Point I've ever used.

What a sad, sad life you live.  

Seriously, I figured since you weren't in to the trackpoints that you'd simply buy one without a trackpoint.  (that is assuming, of course, that the new board will be available with and without...just like the Mighty Mouse was)

[bhtooefr]

Well, even if you hate TrackPoints (which, based on what I've seen my coworkers do when presented with X61 Tablets with no touchpad, is usually because you sit there flicking at it, rather than using it properly... ) It's still useful to have SOME variety of a pointing device, so if you don't have room for a mouse...

Anyway, I made up my mind... I checked my bank account, and the white M13 has shipped (because they charged my card, finally.) So, it'll be the EnduraPro - even if I can't get it in black/black.

Expect a comparison review once I get my hands on both.

[xsphat]

I never said I didn't like them, I just haven't used one yet. I'm open to them and I think they are a good form factor.

[iMav]

Well, even if you hate TrackPoints (which, based on what I've seen my coworkers do when presented with X61 Tablets with no touchpad, is usually because you sit there flicking at it, rather than using it properly... ) It's still useful to have SOME variety of a pointing device, so if you don't have room for a mouse...

I bought my X60s SPECIFICALLY because it didn't have a touchpad.  At the time, form factor wasn't really a concern...so I narrowed my choice down to either the X series or the R series (econo-line without the touchpad).  I also own a T23 (which is, also, touchpad-less).  

As far as I'm concerned, it's not a true thinkpad unless it sells out to the trackpoint.  

[bhtooefr]

You do realize that you can call Lenovo and request that they install the touchpad-delete palmrest, right?

Or, you can order that palmrest after the fact...

[iMav]

You do realize that you can call Lenovo and request that they install the touchpad-delete palmrest, right?

I've seen them available for sale, yes.

Or, you can order that palmrest after the fact...

Which is entirely unnecessary since all the Thinkpads I own are touchpad-less.  

I might consider that if I find myself fancying a new T-series in the future though.

[xsphat]

does anyone make a stand alone USB trackpoint device and if not, why not? I'd buy one.

[iMav]

does anyone make a stand alone USB trackpoint device and if not, why not? I'd buy one.

Without the keyboard, the whole point of the trackpoint is lost.  The idea is to allow yourself to keep your fingers on the keyboard.  A standalone trackpoint, IMO, would be ridiculous.

[bhtooefr]

Not that IBM hasn't done that before, of course.

(Then again, I guess it isn't TECHNICALLY a TrackPoint - the pointing device is still the mouse, but there is a TrackPoint (early ones actually had a TrackPoint tip, even, but they changed it to a different design tip on the latest ones) on board that behaves like the Internet Scroll Bar on ThinkPads.)

[Mikecase00]

Now, next question... I've read in some places that it's possible to call Unicomp and request a black/black model, rather than the black/silver or white/white model available on the Unicomp site. True? I'd prefer an all-black board, and that might sway me to the M13 if I can't get the EnduraPro in black/black. (I've already ordered a white M13 that'll probably end up being used at work.

Good luck with getting a board with black keys from Unicomp.  When I called and asked for either a full keyboard with black keys, or just black replacement keycaps for a Model M I was informed they don't make them anymore.  Apparently they are quite a bit more expensive to manufacture than white or silver keys with black text when done properly (so the text doesn't rub off easily).

I own two black M-13s, although one has a broken trackpoint so I used it for parts in making the black 1391401 pictured in my avatar (it supplied the black keys, black/silver IBM logo, and darker Num/Caps/Scroll light cover).  I used the other functional one for a while but never quite got used to typing with the trackpoint sticking up.  I can say that it felt quite similar to the trackpoint on a modern Thinkpad, except for the issues you mention above.

I will say that every M-13 I've typed on had key action that was just slightly less precise than the average IBM built Model M I've used.

[bhtooefr]

Good luck with getting a board with black keys from Unicomp.  When I called and asked for either a full keyboard with black keys, or just black replacement keycaps for a Model M I was informed they don't make them anymore.  Apparently they are quite a bit more expensive to manufacture than white or silver keys with black text when done properly (so the text doesn't rub off easily).

Ah. In that case, I'll just go ahead and order the black/silver one...

[zillidot]

Good luck with getting a board with black keys from Unicomp.  When I called and asked for either a full keyboard with black keys, or just black replacement keycaps for a Model M I was informed they don't make them anymore.  Apparently they are quite a bit more expensive to manufacture than white or silver keys with black text when done properly (so the text doesn't rub off easily).

They used to sell them! I have a black Customizer 101 with black keys, which I bought back in 2003.

Some of the white lettering on the keys have partially worn off, so I can understand why they don't want to make them anymore.

[bhtooefr]

My guess is they sold them for as long as they had stocks of the black caps.

I guess they only had to keep stocks until the last all-black boards were 18 months old, and therefore out of warranty...

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Something similar.