Author Topic: Non-Standard Number Remapping  (Read 2753 times)

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Offline cogito_ergo_sum

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Non-Standard Number Remapping
« on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 14:57:48 »
Has anyone had success with remapping the numbers (either numpad or the regular numbers) into a non-standard layout, i.e. not the numpad layout?

I have the numpad remapped to the left hand on a Kinesis Advantage. I use a foot pedal to momentary-toggle back to letters.

I have sporadically tested various remappings, but have always gone back. However, I am curious to see if anyone has successfully used anything similar.

example layout:
sdf 456
jkl  789
wer 123
u      0

Pros:
1) Divides labor between 2 hands.

Cons:
1) This remapping throws off the logical layout of my other remappings and macros. I can't keep like things together.
2) I'm okay until someone calls, then I grab my standard qwerty. (I always leave it attached.)
3) I can't mouse with the right and enter numbers with my left. I could solve this by having a full numpad on the left and extra numbers on the right, but that wastes keys.








Offline Zustiur

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 21:06:59 »
I haven't tried it yet but I was toying with the idea of asdfc mjkl;  12345 06789

That is, home row plus index finger shift row for 5 and 0. Symbols would probably go above home row.
I found traditional keypad design really awkward on column staggered boards. Now that my other layering issues seem to be resolved it might be time to try this out.

Offline cogito_ergo_sum

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 21:27:19 »
I have actually tried this layout, among others. Besides the other issues I noted, I decided against it because it puts more work on the pinkies, and I have numbness in those fingers. Also, I type in lots of credit cards at work, so I like 3456 (amex, visa, mc, discover)  on the same side. It does leave the upper row available, as well as zx and ,.  instead of z and . on the ends.

Offline pyro

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 16:43:09 »


This is the numbers-layout I use (just the numbers), it's the most convenient one so far. Seems to play nice in theory, too. The obvious downside is the index finger has to operate 4 numbers, but I rarely notice. And the index finger is pretty dexterous, anyway.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I've also tried a layout that divided the numbers between hands, but I found it to be inconvenient even after weeks of using it.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 October 2015, 16:46:54 by pyro »

Offline cogito_ergo_sum

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 13:35:55 »
How did you arrive at this particular layout - particularly the row 9876 instead of 6789 - I simply like to know the rationale for certain layouts, not to criticize. My current layout is simply moving the numpad to the left for lack of better ideas. I also have an extra 0 in the right thumb cluster, so I don't have to reach down further. However, I use the 0 on the left when I mouse.

Offline davkol

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 14:46:52 »
All these layouts are bad, if you're entering numbers with distribution adherent to Benford's law.

Offline pyro

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 16:46:56 »
What makes you say that? If Benford's law holds (for the numbers you usually type I mean) and you believe the index finger and thumb are the most dexterous fingers and should carry most of the weight, I think the layout fares pretty well. Plus, there's no row-jumping at all.

I've tried 6789 as the top row, too, and I've tried both the left-handed and the righthanded versions, and this is the one I personally like best.

I haven't run the numbers though, so if you do, I'd be interested.
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 October 2015, 16:50:48 by pyro »

Offline Kad

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 16:54:30 »
I use a foot pedal to momentary-toggle back to letters.

Very interesting! Kind of unrelated to the OP, but do you have any other uses for a foot pedal in your setup? It seems like it could streamline workflow if you used it effectively.

[WASD v2 w/ MX Blues]

Offline davkol

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 08:30:02 »
What makes you say that? If Benford's law holds (for the numbers you usually type I mean) and you believe the index finger and thumb are the most dexterous fingers and should carry most of the weight, I think the layout fares pretty well. Plus, there's no row-jumping at all.
1 operated by the least dexterous fingers. All I see is a=1 (pinkie, the shortest and weakest finger) or w=1 (ring finger).

Offline cogito_ergo_sum

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 12:15:36 »
I use a foot pedal to momentary-toggle back to letters.

Very interesting! Kind of unrelated to the OP, but do you have any other uses for a foot pedal in your setup? It seems like it could streamline workflow if you used it effectively.

The left pedal is 'tab', the middle pedal is 'momentary-toggle layers' for the Kinesis, and the right pedal is 'F4' (because of a program I use at work). I have used 'enter' and 'alt' for a short time, before settling on this layout. I have considered using 'shift' on the right and using it to trigger macros, but I modify my layout gradually, so I haven't gotten around to that idea.

I use the Kinesis pedals with telephone-jack which attaches to the Kinesis Advantage. I want to add a mouse pedal (either the Kinesis usb or the X-Keys usb model), but haven't decided yet. I may instead use the X-Keys switch, which would allow me to flexibly position switches at various positions.

https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/products/#foot-section
http://piengineering.com/XkeysSwitches/index.php
http://piengineering.com/XkeysFootPedals/index.php

The foot pedal offloads a lot of work from the hands. You do need an non-leaning-back and non-wobbly chair and good arm rests (I use homemade bean bags.) or the shifting of your weight when using the pedals puts stress on your elbows. I almost gave up on foot pedals before I figured this out.

Offline cogito_ergo_sum

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 12:35:42 »
All these layouts are bad, if you're entering numbers with distribution adherent to Benford's law.

Now that I know about Benford's Law, I may be able to use that information.

There's also this link:

http://blog.lumberlabs.com/2011/04/credit-card-numbers-and-benfords-law.html

It might be of use for those who enter credit cards.

Offline cogito_ergo_sum

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Re: Non-Standard Number Remapping
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 01 November 2015, 15:31:58 »
The following keypad layout might be good for people who enter credit cards frequently:

left hand

654
321
987

right hand

k remapped to 0 (though I might keep it as down arrow, since I am so used to that remap)
or thumb-spacebar on the Advantage

The direction arrows and other navigation keys could be remapped to the other parts of the right hand matrix:
uio
jkl
m,.

I will likely try this layout or something similar this winter. I already have the direction arrows and other navigation keys remapped to the right matrix, so it will just involve the numbers.