Author Topic: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case  (Read 2934 times)

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Offline j3LLy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3
Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« on: Wed, 04 August 2021, 17:18:28 »
Sorry if this has been posted before, I searched around and didn't see any post about it but maybe I'm just bad at searching forums like this.

So I've been working on a macro-pad design for a while and I've decided to try to make it fully 3D printable because the costs of making it out of any kind of metal and shipping to my location are way too high. I've got a design down for the case, plate, and a separate plate for the rotary encoder.

I'm not gonna lie I am really dreading the QMK part of this but I figured I could figure that out after I get the design of the case/plate right.

The problem I'm having at the moment is how to stick the plate onto the case, what I have currently is a 3mm plate "mounted" on the case by literally just sticking it on, the case has a hole in it just big enough for the plate and "struts" sticking out from under it to keep the plate in place. But I'm really worried that it isn't enough, and that the plate is going to be wiggling around.
Below are some pictures in case my explanation is not good enough, English isn't my first language so I apologize for any misunderstanding.

https://imgur.com/p4xKEGb
Case without the plate
https://imgur.com/b5IGUlc
case with the plate
https://imgur.com/haGpRTe
The layout of the macro-pad

So as for my question, is there a better way to go about this? I feel like there must be but I really don't have the know-how to figure it out on my own.
Any tips and/or tricks on this matter or any other concerning the design of this macro-pad are gladly appreciated.  :)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 04 August 2021, 21:06:06 »
Done a few cases on 3d printer.

Right off the start you have an issue you need to deal with and that is the plate, 3mm might might work across such a small area but it's easy to add a few reinforcement ribs underneath. They don't need to go into the clamping area but they should be under the bulk of it. Should be a simple, easy fix. Be warned, while this means you can easily just print the plate upside down, and you can, if your printer has any skew // or \\ it will be opposite of the rest that were printed right side up. Rotating it 90 degrees before you print should reverse the skew, I'd also give yourself a bit of extra tolerance here. Again with your keyboard size it's less an issue compared to something bigger but it is something many don't realize can be a problem until they encounter it. Pretty much every printer has some skew, particularly deltas and corexy, deltas can be all sorts of weird.

As for attaching it,
Make your entire top section one part, not one section recessed into the other. Not only is this unlikely to create the flush smooth top surface you expect because of how printing works (you're likely to get a low corner) but this gives you more area around the perimeter. With this wider perimeter you can extend your support ribs but also this gives you meat to simply drive screws up from the bottom. Some will say to use brass inserts in the top and some nice bolts from below. Meh. It's plastic, cheap and easily redone. Use machine or wood screws, on mine I used 3/8in #4 screws (I think). Before assembly, create threads  by screwing it into the part until it bites, then heat the screw with a lighter (blue flame, not yellow) until you see it lean or just use your gut. Then drive it in and let it cool. Once you do them all pull them out and assemble the keyboard. This has worked great for me on bunches of projects.


Plastics...
PLA will work fine here but has a higher pitch tone and if you leave it in the car will deform. PLA also deforms over time when under pressure,your switches will eventually feel lose as will the screws as any pressure points will slowly lose grip. ABS will work well and not deform but ABS is a hassle, and while strong when done correct, if it has a problem it will have very little. It's sound is a bit lower. Polycarbonate is not recommended since you will be touching it constantly (bad chems).

My advice is PETG, it's sound is lower than the rest, will not deform, resists stains and resists warping from heat almost as well as ABS. It's also cheap. The downside is you can't glue it as little sticks to it (paint can also be a problem) and fewer color options but it's the better choice for use. I was quite surprised by the sound of mine in Petg, it did not sound plastic, well, I mean, it did, but not the common cheap plastic sound you expect. It's much closer to aluminum in terms of pitch than the others.

If you outsource this they will likely use little infill, probably 3 perimeters, 10--25% infill. Not only is it small enough but the cost difference is negligible for you use to use a lot higher infill. I would highly recommend 40-50%. Not just for strength but also sound and weight.


There's a wealth of info in my thread here and on the Thingiverse page for it.
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Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 01:24:04 »
Screws are good. if you are going to assemble / disassemble it many times then the plastic can wear out. In such a case:
  • Reprint new version and redo the keyboard. I think this is too much work.
  • Use bolts with inserts instead of screws. more work but less than reprinting / redoing.
  • If it is ABS then do not bother with bolts and inserts. Go with screws by default. If it wears out then press ABS-glue into the screw hole and (as it is drying) use a smooth thin rod to press hole in the middle. Recut a new thread with your screw when ABS-glue dries completely.

Offline j3LLy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3
Re: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 13:28:55 »
Done a few cases on 3d printer.

Right off the start you have an issue you need to deal with and that is the plate, 3mm might might work across such a small area but it's easy to add a few reinforcement ribs underneath. They don't need to go into the clamping area but they should be under the bulk of it. Should be a simple, easy fix. Be warned, while this means you can easily just print the plate upside down, and you can, if your printer has any skew // or \\ it will be opposite of the rest that were printed right side up. Rotating it 90 degrees before you print should reverse the skew, I'd also give yourself a bit of extra tolerance here. Again with your keyboard size it's less an issue compared to something bigger but it is something many don't realize can be a problem until they encounter it. Pretty much every printer has some skew, particularly deltas and corexy, deltas can be all sorts of weird.

As for attaching it,
Make your entire top section one part, not one section recessed into the other. Not only is this unlikely to create the flush smooth top surface you expect because of how printing works (you're likely to get a low corner) but this gives you more area around the perimeter. With this wider perimeter you can extend your support ribs but also this gives you meat to simply drive screws up from the bottom. Some will say to use brass inserts in the top and some nice bolts from below. Meh. It's plastic, cheap and easily redone. Use machine or wood screws, on mine I used 3/8in #4 screws (I think). Before assembly, create threads  by screwing it into the part until it bites, then heat the screw with a lighter (blue flame, not yellow) until you see it lean or just use your gut. Then drive it in and let it cool. Once you do them all pull them out and assemble the keyboard. This has worked great for me on bunches of projects.


Plastics...
PLA will work fine here but has a higher pitch tone and if you leave it in the car will deform. PLA also deforms over time when under pressure,your switches will eventually feel lose as will the screws as any pressure points will slowly lose grip. ABS will work well and not deform but ABS is a hassle, and while strong when done correct, if it has a problem it will have very little. It's sound is a bit lower. Polycarbonate is not recommended since you will be touching it constantly (bad chems).

My advice is PETG, it's sound is lower than the rest, will not deform, resists stains and resists warping from heat almost as well as ABS. It's also cheap. The downside is you can't glue it as little sticks to it (paint can also be a problem) and fewer color options but it's the better choice for use. I was quite surprised by the sound of mine in Petg, it did not sound plastic, well, I mean, it did, but not the common cheap plastic sound you expect. It's much closer to aluminum in terms of pitch than the others.

If you outsource this they will likely use little infill, probably 3 perimeters, 10--25% infill. Not only is it small enough but the cost difference is negligible for you use to use a lot higher infill. I would highly recommend 40-50%. Not just for strength but also sound and weight.


There's a wealth of info in my thread here and on the Thingiverse page for it.

Thanks a lot, this is a really big help but quick question, when you say "Make your entire top section one part" do you mean make the entire thing one printable part? so no separate plate? That would be a nice and easy solution but the problem is how to access the inside, unless I somehow made the case openable at the bottom I guess. I'm going to explore some of the options with that. I'm a bit of an amateur with Fusion 360 but hopefully there are some tutorials that go over that.

You also mentioned brass inserts, if I did use those would the screws/bolts go through the entire thing or would it only be at the top to keep the plate in place?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something, English isn't my first language and I particularly struggle with "technical speak" in it.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4518
Re: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 21:09:57 »
Screws are good. if you are going to assemble / disassemble it many times then the plastic can wear out. In such a case:
Reprint new version and redo the keyboard. I think this is too much work.
How many times are you going to open it? 3, 4 5?
Certainly not 50.

Also not sure about you but on my printer I turn it on, smear some glue, load a file and press print and it does it's thing.
A keyboard of this size, one section is like $1 and a couple hours of printing at most most. These days I don't bat an eye unless a print exceeds 36 hours, even then it's kind of "meh".
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Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4518
Re: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 05 August 2021, 21:22:30 »
Thanks a lot, this is a really big help but quick question, when you say "Make your entire top section one part" do you mean make the entire thing one printable part? so no separate plate? That would be a nice and easy solution but the problem is how to access the inside, unless I somehow made the case openable at the bottom I guess. I'm going to explore some of the options with that. I'm a bit of an amateur with Fusion 360 but hopefully there are some tutorials that go over that.

You also mentioned brass inserts, if I did use those would the screws/bolts go through the entire thing or would it only be at the top to keep the plate in place?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something, English isn't my first language and I particularly struggle with "technical speak" in it.
You're welcome and no problem on the tech speak.
Make it a sandwich: top, plate and base or combine the top and plate and use a separate base, either way lets each part support and strengthen each other. Make the parts structural, not just covers which will flex and be floppy. Thin printed parts are bad, thick printed parts are good.
Here's a good example of what I mean for design changes:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4676328



Brass inserts work similar to a wood screw except you use a bolt and stronger threads.Instead of heating the screw to create threads you heat the insert and push it into a whole, nothing is exposed from top. Like with wood screws the top still needs to be thick enough though.
https://blog.trimech.com/installing-heat-set-inserts-into-fdm-parts
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| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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| Magicforce 68
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| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
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| KBT Race S L.E.
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| Das Pro
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| GH60
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: Mounting a 3D printed plate on a 3D printed case
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 06 August 2021, 07:34:17 »
How many times are you going to open it? 3, 4 5?
It is not about printing. That hardly does require any work at all. I do not even remember the last time I tried to prepare build plate in any way. I only start the print and remove the printed part and the skirt when it finishes. One learns to remove the parts without damaging kapton tape after some practise. And one learns to do it when the plate cools to about 80-90 °C so that it does not peel the tape when a bigger part is cooling :-D

Any prepossessing is more significant work. I typically deburr all parts. Small parts: I submerge in acetone, pull out, shake off the acetone, and let it dry. Big parts: painting with acetone, drying. A possible need to replace/re-solder switches or electronics is a pain. Often, the pain can be avoided with a good design (do not put any screw holes on parts which are "wrapped" by electronics).

It is easier to refurbish the screw holes with ABS-glue if the case was printed with ABS.  The holes last a lot. I needed to do this only about 3 times. I bothered with inserts in the past. I use only plain plastic screw holes now. ABS is a ***** to print (especially without heat chamber) but it is easy to repair.

I did not try PETG yet. Looks like I should. I was not delighted by PLA but you are praising PETG a lot so it looks like worth a try.