Author Topic: [GB] F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! Kishsaver+Industrial Model F  (Read 2350877 times)

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Offline dante

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #750 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:21:04 »
Ya what feng is doing is absolutely not right but your linking his thread put at least me under the impression that group buy was associated with Ellipse, which doesn't seem to be the case, so I really think it's completely irrelevant. Stick to what's going on with this project and what Ellipse is doing. I really don't care about anything else.

I was just pointing out to a moderator that there is a con in progress and it might be a better use of their time to pursue that one instead of the GB containing videos/photos/constant communication/etc.

Offline hashbaz

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #751 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 14:31:14 »
I was just pointing out to a moderator that there is a con in progress and it might be a better use of their time to pursue that one instead of the GB containing videos/photos/constant communication/etc.

Nobody's "pursuing" this group buy. I'm a participant and I asked for clarification on the current finish date. Thank you for pointing out the feng situation, but let's drop it in this thread.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #752 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 21:52:48 »
For anyone not following the threads as closely, feel free to check out www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog for periodic project updates.  You'll always know the current status of the project by checking there. 

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #753 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 12:27:34 »
Stick to what's going on with this project and what Ellipse is doing. I really don't care about anything else.

Makes perfect sense.  I know other Group Buys will go pear-shaped but that is not our concern here for this Model-F keyboard.

Thus far Ellipse has ALWAYS provided on going reporting, unlike some other people here on Geekhack that say nothing when running a Group Buy.  Part of joining any GB some times you get LUCKY and actually receive something, other times you get your wallet gang-raped by certain scum-bags and receive only contempt and lies.

Just be glad thus far, we all haven't been gaped by anyone here in this F62+F77 section  8) .

Pretty sure Elrick is my favorite person on GH... dude goes from 0 to 100 real quick..

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #754 on: Thu, 23 March 2017, 20:17:13 »
The factory sent an update that they are still on track for shipping the first run samples by the end of next week.  They are still working on everything.  They did another check on the key molds but they were judged to require further adjustment before they are production ready to this project's standards.

Offline Pete

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #755 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 05:49:28 »
I'm really excited about this project. Kind of surprised about the quality issues from the factory... is that normal?  Anyway, this is going to be an incredible keyboard. Thanks Ellipse!

Offline Jedi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #756 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 06:18:13 »
I'm really excited about this project. Kind of surprised about the quality issues from the factory... is that normal? 

It's way too normal that there can be necessary adjustments needed even after specifications are given to the factory. For references to similar projects the M|F and Model 01 group buys are all epic major projects that started from the ground up. Ellipse is doing one helluva job keeping us aware of the status (along with the other before mentioned GB runners).  Welcome to GBs where patience and confidence in the GB leaders will make the wait all the more worth it in the end :)

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #757 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 18:45:07 »
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

Offline RocketGruntJake

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #758 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:50:43 »
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

So realistically when will you be shipping out the first boards?

Offline PancakeMSTR

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #759 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:42:17 »
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

So realistically when will you be shipping out the first boards?

Ellipse obviously would know better, but my estimate is August.
   

Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #760 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:48:30 »
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

So realistically when will you be shipping out the first boards?

Ellipse obviously would know better, but my estimate is August.

This was the last update regarding shipping times from Ellipse

We are looking at mid- to late 2017.  Sorry again for the factory delays.  As noted before they needed to re-make some of the samples that were not to spec.  I would not want to proceed with these out of spec parts in order to meet any original estimated deadlines.

They expect to finish all remaining sample re-makes by the end of March.  Then hopefully if everything is approved they can finish up production in the coming few months.  Then they need to do the assembly and ship to me.  Then I will be testing each keyboard one by one and shipping them.

Offline 3K

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #761 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 12:30:58 »
Quote from: Ellipse
Then they need to do the assembly and ship to me.  Then I will be testing each keyboard one by one and shipping them.

Will you also leave your signature on each of them?
« Last Edit: Tue, 28 March 2017, 12:32:29 by 3K »

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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #762 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 20:09:33 »
There will be a label of all the early bird and other project contributors inside at the very least.

Also we crossed another major milestone - $205,000 in orders (incl. shipping)!

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #763 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:34:41 »
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D

Offline Phenix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #764 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:43:18 »
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D
For what? Lot_lizard is doing this already..
Winter is coming.

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #765 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:47:11 »
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D
For what? Lot_lizard is doing this already..

Please link

Offline Phenix

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« Last Edit: Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:52:52 by Phenix »
Winter is coming.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #767 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 15:40:40 »
Sorry no.  I suggest the F77 which is very close to the SSK except the function keys are embedded as a second layer on the F77 as opposed to being separate keys.

Offline Elrick

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #768 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 21:29:41 »
Sorry no.  I suggest the F77 which is very close to the SSK except the function keys are embedded as a second layer on the F77 as opposed to being separate keys.

The F77 is perfection personified, anyone else wanting something different needs their head read and then firmly detached from their body  >:D .

The F77 is the ONLY keyboard you will ever need in Life, just as Moses had chiseled out the the full commandments on stone and through his anger, broke the most important section that clearly mentioned - the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Religious scholars always seem to ignore that vital piece of info from God  :thumb: .

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #769 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 21:34:02 »
Sorry no.  I suggest the F77 which is very close to the SSK except the function keys are embedded as a second layer on the F77 as opposed to being separate keys.

The F77 is perfection personified, anyone else wanting something different needs their head read and then firmly detached from their body  >:D .

The F77 is the ONLY keyboard you will ever need in Life, just as Moses had chiseled out the the full commandments on stone and through his anger, broke the most important section that clearly mentioned - the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Religious scholars always seem to ignore that vital piece of info from God  :thumb: .

YES!!!!!!!

Offline Jedi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #770 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 23:29:19 »
The F77 is the ONLY keyboard you will ever need in Life, just as Moses had chiseled out the the full commandments on stone and through his anger, broke the most important section that clearly mentioned - the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Religious scholars always seem to ignore that vital piece of info from God  :thumb: .

F@#K Elrick I <3 you.  Where do you come up with this sh!t?!  Stop being a stranger and come hang out with us GHers more often, we need your wisdom more.   :-*

Offline Pete

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #771 on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 01:48:33 »
- the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Silicon Heaven of course.


Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #772 on: Fri, 31 March 2017, 16:55:54 »
My preference is for the F77 as well - I like the separate cursor and extra keys.

Offline johnthedong

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #773 on: Fri, 31 March 2017, 19:53:57 »
. Ignore please

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #774 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:18:57 »
Hey Ellipse, are you open to just shipping orders without testing each one individually? I appreciate your kindness but I feel like this will really put things out a ways if you take this upon yourself. What are your thoughts?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #775 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:24:16 »
Nope I would not put something out without thoroughly testing it first, especially given the costs involved.

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #776 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:25:46 »
Nope I would not put something out without thoroughly testing it first, especially given the costs involved.

Gotcha, so if you find a problem are you fixing each board yourself?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #777 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:28:58 »
Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass. 

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #778 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:30:27 »
Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass. 

10-4

How many boards are you at now? Over 1k?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #779 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:52:39 »
451 F62/F77 Keyboards ordered so far - over $210,000!

F77   216
F62   166
Industrial SSK Blue Keys   61
Front-printed keys F1, etc.   49
Extra steel spacebar tabs (pair)   43
Extra inner foam (F62, F77, F62 split shift, F77 split shift, F107, F122)   40
Compact F77   40
Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   38
FirstAidKit   36
Compact F62   29
Extra F77 Case   21
Extra F62 Case - 'Kishsaver"   21
Apple/Mac Command-Option Keys   21
xwhatsit Beam Spring or Model F USB controller   17

The factory is waiting on a subcontractor/supplier for finishing some of the first run parts (hard anodizing, etc.) and another national holiday is this week so that has caused some delays (Tomb Sweeping Day).

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #780 on: Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:58:24 »
Wow, you're going to have your hands full!

DO me a favor and ship mine first and Elricks last mkay? :D

Offline Elrick

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #781 on: Wed, 05 April 2017, 04:42:33 »
DO me a favor and ship mine first and Elricks last mkay? :D

No probs, I've still got packaging from stuff left in the collections room from last year.  Unopened and the Mrs want's it all gone in the next couple of months, due to it taking up a lot of space.

Since I'm mostly an old lazy bastard, when it comes to opening boxes you can ship my order last - every time.  Not worried because I've got to clear out that room first before she turfs out everything in the dumpster.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #782 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 15:04:26 »
We are running low on Compact F62 and Compact F77 keyboards and spare cases - please get in your order soon if you'd like it to make the early bird cut!

Currently all original and compact case orders are expected to ship with the early bird round.

Also another reminder that I am offering free shipping if you'd like to add a First Aid kit to your order - just choose free/other shipping.  The First Aid kits come with spare parts that will be great for repairs long after production ends this year.

Offline kawasaki161

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #783 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 15:56:33 »
We are running low on Compact F62 and Compact F77 keyboards and spare cases - please get in your order soon if you'd like it to make the early bird cut!

Running low overall or just the early bird stuff? I don't want to miss it, but I'd also prefer to order as late as possible (because of some financial reasons), so don't really need to be in the early bird round.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #784 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 16:06:44 »
Low just on early bird - I will be ordering more of everything for the final round later this year.

Offline 3K

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #785 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:10:33 »
Also another reminder that I am offering free shipping if you'd like to add a First Aid kit to your order - just choose free/other shipping.  The First Aid kits come with spare parts that will be great for repairs long after production ends this year.
Does in this case the free shipping apply to the First Aid Kit only, or the whole order? Because this would save me quite some money  :)

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Offline nathanrosspowell

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #786 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:12:22 »
We are running low on Compact F62 and Compact F77 keyboards and spare cases - please get in your order soon if you'd like it to make the early bird cut!

Running low overall or just the early bird stuff? I don't want to miss it, but I'd also prefer to order as late as possible (because of some financial reasons), so don't really need to be in the early bird round.

Don't rush. Don't put yourself at any financial risk. Don't be fooled into thinking this GB will be done any time soon, deadline or no deadline.

I rushed to get into the early bird group for this GB... my family helped pay for the board as a very earl birthday gift to make sure I could get in, and then one of the original shipping estimates was around my actual birthday. Fast forward 12+ months and that round is still open and no detailed shipping deadline. I'll be having my next birthday soon and highly doubt to see the board for that one either. Great.

Sorry if that feels like I'm being totally butthurt but I pushes my buttons to read "please get in your order soon".

Ellipse, here's my request to you: Please update your OP and correct all of the misleading details in there soon. I don't want to see you trying to drum up more orders on 438 day old GB when you haven't even updated the OP since November 2016. Do you realize how long ago that is? 138 days since you updated the extremely vague "SHIPPED TO ME" deadlines of "January or February". By scrolling back in this thread, 5 weeks ago you updated "We are looking at mid- to late 2017"... why not update your OP post with that?! Aye, I'm sure it's hard work making this keyboard a reality and I'm sure I'll enjoy it the day it finally arrives but your organization skills are a joke.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #787 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:44:14 »
3K, free shipping just for the additional accessories order :) as I will combine shipping together.

Nathan allowing additional orders is not delaying the start of production.  As noted before the early round has already gone into production with many parts finished (some we are still waiting on) - orders can still come through as I have ordered extras on my own.  I have been updating the web site blog at least monthly with status updates.  That is always an up to date place to check.  Due to factory delays things are taking longer than expected but I will not accept substandard parts to meet the estimated timeline.  I have updated the OP. 

Offline nathanrosspowell

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #788 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 18:36:27 »
3K, free shipping just for the additional accessories order :) as I will combine shipping together.

Nathan allowing additional orders is not delaying the start of production.  As noted before the early round has already gone into production with many parts finished (some we are still waiting on) - orders can still come through as I have ordered extras on my own.  I have been updating the web site blog at least monthly with status updates.  That is always an up to date place to check.  Due to factory delays things are taking longer than expected but I will not accept substandard parts to meet the estimated timeline.  I have updated the OP.

Right, I understand that new theoretically won't slow down existing orders, but what schedule are you telling these new orders? The whole timeline for the GB is very unclear.

All I want to stay up to date on is the ship date. That's it. The last update about that I can see on your blog is from December 30, 2016 "The current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me in March or April 2017.", which we know from this thread that it's out of date information. So really there is no where with easy to find up to date information.

Thanks for updating the OP but it is still extremely vague.

SHIPPED TO ME
* Current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me around mid-year.

What does that exactly mean? If you get hundereds of keyboards shipped to you it could still take weeks or months for you to ship them all out. I want to know the current estimate of when it will be shipped to the early bird buyers. Sure that can change, that's fine, but what is the current estimate for sending them out?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #789 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 20:15:51 »
Nathan the timeline is not completely outlined, you are correct.  I do not have factory-promised deadlines or anything more specific to offer.  The expectation is that people start receiving their orders starting mid-2017.

Orders will ship out in the order they are received (generally) and it could take me a month or two to get through testing everything once it's received.  The factory is doing the initial quality control and I will only be doing the final pass.

I am going to ask that everyone please be patient as the factory finishes production this year.  A lot of people are waiting!

Offline nathanrosspowell

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #790 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 21:07:12 »
Nathan the timeline is not completely outlined, you are correct.  I do not have factory-promised deadlines or anything more specific to offer.  The expectation is that people start receiving their orders starting mid-2017.

Orders will ship out in the order they are received (generally) and it could take me a month or two to get through testing everything once it's received.  The factory is doing the initial quality control and I will only be doing the final pass.

I am going to ask that everyone please be patient as the factory finishes production this year.  A lot of people are waiting!

I'm happy to be patient as long as you're transparent with the state of the GB.

If factually can't provide anything more specific that 'mid year + a month or two' then I have a lot less faith in the the organisation of this GB. Surely you have a rough ETAs for at least one of the 4 separate in-production part that you are buying?  (Ultra compact cases, Key molds / keys / buckling springs, Inner assembly plates, Boxes / inner foam / outside foam packaging). Are you giving a factory money and they are replying with "ok, i'll send it mid-year!"?... I hope not. If you are purposefully withholding information about the time frame of the GB to avoid the potential backlash when you have another delay, then you could at least say that.

Offline hashbaz

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #791 on: Mon, 10 April 2017, 12:32:29 »
Ellipse, I share nathanrosspowell's frustration. I believe the last big update to the OP from November of last year is the one I insisted that you make. I'm not so concerned about delays as I am about ease of understanding the status of everything. There's nowhere I can look to get that understanding. Your small incremental thread updates are great, but they don't give a big picture of where everything is and when things are expected to be finished.

The OP should get edited every time you post an update in the thread. Even a rough timeline would be great, something like

End of May: expected to receive part X
June: estimate for part Y
August: factory assembly & QA
October: finished boards ship to me
October-November: I test and ship out boards in order

Along with maybe a list of the order you will ship the boards in.

Just some thoughts. I remain super excited for this buy even though it will be 1.5-2 years later than initially expected. I'm not criticizing you for things you have no control over, I just wish it was easier to understand the big picture of where we are.

Offline PancakeMSTR

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #792 on: Mon, 10 April 2017, 14:03:55 »
In the same boat. The more transparency regarding timeline the better. I think we all know were in this for the long haul, but I also think we'd sit a bit more comfortably if we had a clearer idea of how long that haul is. So far, the timeline is a bit confusing.

I'd also like a clearer picture of what, in your (Ellipse) opinion, qualifies a part as a failure. What are your standards? What parts have you received, failed, and why have you failed them? What parts have your received and passed?
   

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #793 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 00:04:25 »
Yes agreed it would be great to have an outlined schedule from the factory once I approve the final prototypes (hopefully this month).  I hope this post will catch everyone up for those who have not been following the threads and blog posts as closely, and also if you are interested in how things are made:

The turnaround time for the factory is longer than expected for correcting issues before the run starts but it is understandable given my quality standards and the unique aspects of bringing back 1980s production parts.  They have been very patient working with me for going on 3 years now.

The factory timeframe I believe was based on expectations of standard parts requests and finishes - they didn't know how challenging this project would be for the nonstandard requests, nor did I. 

The factory is actually building or adjusting their tooling for the special characteristics of this project.  For example they are building a machine that curves the PCB to match that of the originals as there was no equipment that could delicately deal with PCB curving without damaging the copper traces.  There is also tooling that precisely makes the inner assembly parts to the IBM Model F curve. 

The parts requiring the most amount of work, the die cast original style cases, took 3 months for die casting, final machining, and powdercoating.  Before then was maybe 3-4 months for making the molds and adjusting the powdercoating and texture.

The die cast case powdercoating process took months because the factory had to experiment with different paints and textures to match the original bumpy Model F 4704 texture - using standard powdercoating for the prototypes did not take long.  The kind of texture and paint color did not exist (no Pantone color!) so everything had to be custom mixed until the colors were a perfect match to the 4704 case sample from 1988 that I provided.  Then the powdercoating for some of the paint they tried did not stick well to the zinc so they had to switch to another type of paint.  They ended up having to mix the custom made texture into the custom color powdercoat paint to get everything perfect. 

The flippers and barrels were made from different proprietary materials (options had to be researched by the engineers) that were close approximations of the original plastic formulations that were never precisely disclosed back in the day (they work and the flippers perfectly convey the capacitive signal). 

Pancake I will recap examples of first try prototype adjustments needed - the passed parts are listed in the OP "finished production" section:
- Original cases - powdercoating color and texture needed a few tries to get right and accurately match the originals (which they do now).  Their earlier samples were very well made (and without much delay) to high modern standards but did not match the texture and color of the originals.
- Barrels - some measurement errors on my part of fractions of 1 mm caused the barrels not to interface with the keys like the originals; had to have them adjust the molds
- Keys - one critical dimension of the keys was not to my spec, probably 0.5mm off spec which made the keys not buckle consistently. 
- Springs - they tried a number of materials; also the spring measurements were not accurate enough, under 1 mm difference but it is noticeable and could prevent a key from buckling
- Inner assembly plates - they were not to spec, maybe under 1 mm too large (the width of space between the top and bottom inner assembly plates.  The first ones had holes that were too small to fit the barrels and some of the powdercoating was flaking.

In all cases I have held the factory to my standards and have rejected substandard parts. 

Once they determine exactly what is needed, production is approved to start and there should not be much of a delay due to rejection of parts.

« Last Edit: Tue, 11 April 2017, 00:07:17 by Ellipse »

Offline ApocalypseMaow

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #794 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 07:12:21 »
oh boy
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Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #795 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 15:46:24 »
This is without a doubt, THE most challenging group buy EVER on Geekhack. It's the first time a keyboard has been reverse-engineered that isn't the typical MX custom board. This isn't a keycap set or another aluminum slab & pcb board :)

I think the only part that is debatable is the amount of time consumed by you (Ellipse) individually testing each board instead of shipping them out after such a long delay. It would speed things up to just deal with the issues on a case-by-case basis instead of touching each board....are you doing all the assembly yourself Ellipse? Or is the factory?

Offline hpfalcon

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #796 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 15:55:31 »
....are you doing all the assembly yourself Ellipse? Or is the factory?

Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass.


seems the factory would be doing the assembly
« Last Edit: Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:00:10 by hpfalcon »

Offline Justins7

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #797 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:06:49 »
The whole process seems pretty interesting. There are so many obsolete/discontinued objects I would love to reverse engineer and bring back into production.

It would be great to see even more videos and/or photos of the process... Did the the factory engineers think you were crazy, Ellipse?

As much as I want this done quickly, it makes sense that it takes a long time, considering the obstacles, as well as time/care in each keyboard. (I'm actually glad I didn't find out about this until recently, or else I'd be impatiently waiting for 2 years.)

Offline hashbaz

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #798 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:35:47 »
Yo again, not criticizing for how long it's taking. That is totally understandable. I'm criticizing for the lack of clear status information.

Offline digi

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #799 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:46:38 »
....are you doing all the assembly yourself Ellipse? Or is the factory?

Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass.


seems the factory would be doing the assembly

LOLLLLL Did you just quote myself asking Elilipse the same question twice???

Ok, i'm leaving now.