Author Topic: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards  (Read 656631 times)

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Offline helborne

  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Boston
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2500 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 13:38:44 »
Maybe it's time to:
A) Offer the buyer the option for signed delivery (noticed Ellipse's response, it should be more explicit during the checkout process that the package will not require signature).
B) Offer the buyer the option to insure the package.
C) Both

Honestly I thought my Model F was going to require a signature given the value of the package, but no, that was not the case.  This is an unfortunate oversight that should be rectified for future orders, or at the very least allow people the option to upgrade their shipments to have those services.  If they choose not to, then that's a different story.  I feel for the person that had their Model F stolen.  Good luck
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 June 2020, 13:42:46 by helborne »

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2501 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 13:51:50 »
Maybe it's time to:
A) Offer the buyer the option for signed delivery (noticed Ellipse's response, it should be more explicit during the checkout process that the package will not require signature).
B) Offer the buyer the option to insure the package.
C) Both

Honestly I thought my Model F was going to require a signature given the value of the package, but no, that was not the case.  This is an unfortunate oversight that should be rectified for future orders, or at the very least allow people the option to upgrade their shipments to have those services.  If they choose not to, then that's a different story.  I feel for the person that had their Model F stolen.  Good luck

That sounds like he was describing most of what you've asked to take place? It has been a while since I have built a custom computer, but the last time I did, Newegg shipped everything with a signature required ... without ever giving me an option, or mentioning the fact that they did. Nobody is ever home during the hours that carriers actually attempt delivery, so a required signaturei s a no-go for me. I eventually just had to have them hold the computer parts at a hub 20 miles away and drive there to get them. There was nowhere closer to do it in that case.

Offline sam123456

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2502 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 12:37:30 »
Ellipse,

Thanks for the quick reply to my questions last week.

After a huge amount of second guessing myself on which configuration I will be happiest with (such second guessing is lot easier to do when you expect to be using something for over a decade), my order is in!

To briefly switch back to my question about the backlog: I'm mostly just concerned about whether I should expect the delivery before I move to a different apartment next year, in which case I'll need to be sure to make some reminders to myself to send you an updated address.

Cheers,
Sam

Offline Ellipse

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  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2503 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 16:40:21 »
Glad you have joined the project Sam!  I hope to get the rest of the orders out this year including the dye sublimation and you can email me if your address changes. 

For everyone with an address change, please email me at least two weeks before your address changes, and let me know the effective date of the new address.

Regarding dye sublimation, the factory is now doing trial jig designs to get the alignment perfect.  Equal alignment on these keys is probably one of the most important aspects of the "XT quality" keys. 

IBM was quite variable over the years with the actual distance from the top/left sides for key alignment but as long as it's consistent within a key set (as was the case with IBM) it will be acceptable.  Equality of alignment matters more than actual distance, but I am aiming for the characters to be 1/20th inch away from top and 1/20th inch away from the left side of the key corner as it is on a number of my original Model F keyboards.

Solenoid driver update - solenoid driver samples are confirmed working and solenoid driver assembly should finish soon. 

Note:  the solenoid driver activity LED for diagnostic purposes does not work (the LED never worked even on my original solenoid driver made directly by xwhatsit).  Not sure why.

246259-0
246261-1
246263-2
246265-3
246267-4
« Last Edit: Wed, 01 July 2020, 17:16:57 by Ellipse »

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2504 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 17:14:52 »
Very cool. I'm going to need at least 2 or 3 of those bad boys.

Offline rgleas

  • Posts: 31
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2505 on: Thu, 02 July 2020, 12:40:17 »
Hello all. I finally got around to making a quick video demonstrating my F62 and F77 boards, by performing a few type races individually with them. It may be a good comparison between the new model F keycaps (on F62) and Unicomp key caps (on F77), of which I believe the new model F key caps are noticeably better and give a much more pleasant sound.


Cheers.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2506 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 00:45:07 »
Thanks rgleas - it is great to see some fast typing on the new Model F keyboards.

General note for those not following the forums as closely:  feel free to check the monthly blog updates which summarize all of the month's updates.

The major update is that I've QC'd and shipped out 344 keyboards so far and am continuing to send out shipments without printed keys to those who want early delivery, with printed items to ship later.

The only ones that are not going out are those who prefer delivery all at once (e.g. if they do not have extra Model M / Model F / Unicomp keyboards to borrow keys from) and those whose keyboards are in the second of two container shipments of the early bird round (mostly the remaining keyboards with installed, unprinted keys as well as the compact case keyboards).

The last step is the dye sublimation which they are working on setting up and still needs more time to complete.

Offline darkcruix

  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Germany
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2507 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:27:54 »
I don't want to spam this forum, but I have done another Video that compares the Original Model F (F107) with the New Model F variants. I also compared a Beam Spring 3278 with the New Model F. This time I did use a proper Mic for the sound recording.
I hope you find it interesting and enjoy:

« Last Edit: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:43:26 by darkcruix »

Offline Ellipse

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  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2508 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 16:14:25 »
The custom made solenoids are now available to order!  So now everything is open to order - USB-C controllers (Model F, beam spring non-displaywriter, beam spring displaywriter), solenoid drivers, and solenoids.

For those not aware, a solenoid contains a metal cylinder that vibrates the keyboard and/or makes a noise every time you press a key (with exception for certain key programming like the Windows GUI key, etc.) and helps add even more clickiness to a keyboard.

These solenoids are also a great option as an upgrade to IBM's original solenoids too (I'd always save the originals of course for the sake of completeness).

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/xwhatsit-beam-spring-or-model-f-controller/

Why pick this solenoid over other solenoids or over IBM's original solenoids? 

The new solenoids are far beefier than IBM's originals, so your solenoid clicking will be even better!  It's a custom design that you can only order here.  The specifications are 6v, 40 ohm, 0.15A, 0.9W, adjustable throw factory set to 1mm but with a user-adjustable range of about 0.5mm to 5mm (there are 2 screws that can be loosened to adjust the distance of the strike bar).  The factory throw setting allows you to start using this solenoid with no modification (still need to follow xwhatsit's solenoid installation guide to avoid damage to equipment). 

This solenoid has the dark blue outer covering, black and white twisted wires and 2.54mm connector like the original IBM solenoids, but with a strike bar so it won't exactly resemble the IBM solenoid. 

This solenoid is not the one that's available on eBay, though it looks similar and the voltage and resistance specs are the same.  Also that other model doesn't have the adjustable throw - you would have to spend time milling the strike bar to modify it for correct usage with the solenoid drivers.  If the ebay solenoid's throw distance isn't changed, your solenoid will be very sluggish and won't be able to operate at full typing speed.  Also my solenoid is even larger than the eBay solenoid, the 26mm height dimension on eBay is set to be ~29-30mm on my solenoid (the solenoid goes sideways in F62/F77 so it fits) though all the solenoid specs are subject to change.  With a larger metal frame, my solenoid should be a little louder than the eBay model and far louder than the original IBM!  This is the largest possible solenoid that will fit inside the classic style F62 and F77 cases. 

These solenoids will be in the second container ship, expected to leave China soon, so they are not in stock just yet.  Will post photos as soon as production finishes.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 July 2020, 16:16:58 by Ellipse »

Offline Vizir

  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2509 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 16:36:53 »
Is it a limited production run?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Offline rgleas

  • Posts: 31
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2510 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 22:12:07 »
I just placed my order for the Solenoid Driver and the Solenoid. For any noobies out there like me, that is all you will need if you're looking to use for your New Model F Keyboard.

Offline reavy

  • Posts: 22
  • Location: Phoenix
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2511 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 10:14:05 »
I just placed my order for the Solenoid Driver and the Solenoid. For any noobies out there like me, that is all you will need if you're looking to use for your New Model F Keyboard.
Will installation of the solenoid driver and solenoid require any soldering on the new model f controllers?

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2512 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 13:54:05 »
Great rgleas!  Yes confirmed but everyone please do review the product page on the project web site for proper installation to avoid damage.

reavy there is no soldering required.  Just plug the connectors into the header pins.

Vizir for all the beam controllers and solenoids I ordered an amount that was equal to or greater than the minimum order quantity.  Once they run out, don't plan on another batch for any of these items.  Already I've received a bunch of orders and these will likely go out of stock without warning on the project web site when enough orders have come in.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 July 2020, 13:59:52 by Ellipse »

Offline Pete

  • Posts: 57
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2513 on: Sun, 05 July 2020, 03:10:22 »
Sigh... shipping for the solenoid and controller is almost $70 USD for me  :(


Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2514 on: Sun, 05 July 2020, 10:27:08 »
Shipping is free if I'm adding it to your current order that has not yet shipped, or contact me for a custom quote (should be at most about $20 shipped worldwide).  The shipping calculator does not account for small items only in a shipment.

Offline Kavik

  • Posts: 806
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2515 on: Sun, 05 July 2020, 15:05:14 »
I just placed an order for the solenoid and driver. That puts the total amount I've spent on this keyboard over $700; I think that breaks my previous record (counting switches, stabs, and caps).
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2516 on: Sun, 05 July 2020, 16:19:55 »
Regarding the solenoid drivers, I have already sold out nearly half the whole quantity I ordered, in just the past couple weeks!  They should be here by DHL Express in the coming week or so.  If anyone wanted the solenoid drivers to ship ASAP (without waiting for beam spring controllers or the solenoids themselves) please let me know.  The beam controllers should be shipping in about a month and the solenoids in about 2 months.  The solenoid drivers can ship early with the keyboards (if you request it) for those who want the separate shipping of printed items, so there would be no additional cost for international shipments.

Offline Pete

  • Posts: 57
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2517 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 03:40:22 »
I also compared a Beam Spring 3278 with the New Model F. This time I did use a proper Mic for the sound recording.
I hope you find it interesting and enjoy:


The new Model F has a really nice sound but that original Beam Spring keyboard is amazing. Maybe a reproduction Beam Spring keyboard can be Ellipses next project? 

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2518 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 14:31:54 »
Below is the latest pivot table report update of items ordered and configurations chosen.  A lot of controllers, solenoid drivers, and solenoids have been ordered in recent weeks!

Shipped keyboards: 
360 as of now, with about 40 more separate shipping requests to complete this week and next week.

Ordered items   
F77   1194
F62   541
Compact F77   331
Compact F62   183
FirstAidKit   765
Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   471
Extra Case   155
Individual Keys   3248
Addon key set   396
Inner foam   180
Industrial SSK Blue Keys   243
Apple/Mac Command-Option Keys   221
Extra Flipper and Spring   4480
xwhatsit Model F USB controller   52
xwhatsit solenoid driver   63
Front-printed keys F1, etc.   116
Extra Barrel   2372
xwhatsit Beam Spring controller   14
xwhatsit controller   23
Solenoid   48
Key Cap Puller   245
Extra Plastic Stabilizer Insert for keys   581
Extra steel spacebar tabs (pair)   197
xwhatsit Displaywriter Beam Spring controller   3
USBCable   16
Extra PCB   5
Extra top inner assembly   3
Extra box + protective custom foam   1
Bumpers   813
   
Keyboards ordered by year   
2020   277
2019   490
2018   504
2017   609
2016   369
Grand Total   2249
   
Installed Keys   
Regular printed   1584
Black unprinted keys   204
Regular unprinted   176
UK   49
Use your own keys   49
Swedish-Finnish   36
German   31
Dark Gray Printed   16
Norwegian   16
French   9
UK English   8
Dark Gray Unprinted   8
Latin American Spanish   6
Arabic   5
Swiss German   5
Blue Unprinted   5
Blue Printed   5
Danish   4
Regular unprinted ISO   4
APL Keys   4
Spanish   3
Russian   3
Italian   3
Dutch   2
Model M keys   2
Brazilian ABNT   2
JIS   2
Hebrew English   2
Korean   2
Swiss French and German   2
Dark Gray (printed) keys, Norwegian   1
Brilliant white printed key set   1
Grand Total   2249
   
Layout   
ANSI (U.S. default - horizontal Enter key) with split right shift, split backspace, and HHKB keys but not HHKB layout   1
ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)   992
ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key) and non-HHKB Split Right Shift   1
ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key) and Split Backspace   5
DVORAK layout; ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)   1
DVORAK with HHKB style split right shift   1
DVORAK with HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace   1
HHKB split right shift only and split backspace, everything else ANSI Enter   1
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter   15
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter, HHKB style Ctrl and Caps Lock   2
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter, short left shift   1
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace   317
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace and short space bar   1
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace, original position Ctrl and Caps lock keys   2
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace   515
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace and short left shift   4
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace, original position Ctrl and Caps lock keys   1
ISO Enter (vertical enter and 2U Left Shift)   2
ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)   143
ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift) and HHKB-Style Split Right Shift   15
ISO Enter (Vertical Enter And Split Left Shift) And HHKB-Style Split Right Shift, Split Backspace   9
ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift) and non-HHKB Split Right Shift   2
Scumyc ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)   8
Split Enter (1.25U enter and split Left Shift) and non-HHKB Split Right Shift   1
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter, short space bar   1
Standard (ANSI or ISO)   205
HHKB style split right shift and split backspace   1
HHKB style split right shift, everything else ANSI   1
Grand Total   2249
   
Bumpers   
2 medium bumpers with threaded stud (second photo) + 2 other pictured bumpers (please specify in the notes)   202
4 Cork   190
2 Large rubber bumpers (left of photo) with screw and nut plus 2 dome (middle of photo)   187
4 square   91
4 dome (middle of photo)   50
2 dome (middle of photo) + 2 small cylindrical (bottom right)   39
2 dome + 2 square   27
2 square (top right)+2 small cylindrical (bottom right)   26
2 medium bumpers with threaded stud (second photo) + 2 cylindrical bumpers   1
Grand Total   813
   
Right Side Block   
Print/ScrLock/Pause/Ins/Del etc. keys, cursor keys   840
0-9 and cursor keys   583
Blank   102
Grand Total   1525
   
Sales Ranking by Shipping Territory   
1   United States
2   United Kingdom
3   Canada
4   Germany
5   Australia
6   Sweden
7   Norway
8   Netherlands
9   Japan
10   Switzerland
11   Finland
12   France
13   Hong Kong
14   Malaysia
15   Singapore
16   New Zealand
17   Poland
18   Korea, Republic of
19   China
20   Austria
21   Czech Republic
22   Spain
23   Italy
24   Denmark
25   Thailand
26   Russia
27   Brazil
28   Ireland
29   Belgium
30   Romania
31   Taiwan
32   Luxembourg
33   Mexico
34   Israel
35   Argentina
36   Estonia
37   Philippines
38   Vietnam
39   Croatia
40   Hungary
41   Oman
42   Serbia
43   Peru
44   India
45   Turkey
46   Chile
47   Saudi Arabia
48   South Africa
49   Iceland
50   Slovenia
51   Bulgaria
52   Guam


Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2519 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 14:41:12 »
Cool data points, thanks for sharing. I'm surprised only 16 dark gray printed cap sets have been ordered. I may order some more ... as things tend to go on your website.

Offline Ellipse

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  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2520 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 14:58:36 »
16 were ordered as configured with a keyboard - here are the extra key sets ordered - a note that some categories are duplicates

Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   
Printed (Industrial SSK Blue)   102
Printed (Dark Gray)   99
Printed (Pearl/Pebble)   84
Blank (Black)   37
Blank (Pearl/Pebble)   32
Blank (Industrial SSK Blue)   29
Blank (Dark Gray)   21
Printed (Pearl/Pebble Color)   35
Blank Unprinted (Black Color)   11
Blank (Pearl/Pebble Color)   7
Printed (Dark Gray)   4
Printed (Blue Color)   3
Russian   1
Dark Gray (printed) keys   1
Blank (Industrial SSK Blue)   1
Printed   1
Blank Unprinted (Blue Color)   1
Printed (Industrial SSK Blue Color)   1
Printed (Dark Gray Color)   1
Grand Total   471

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2521 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 15:12:28 »
Alright, that makes more sense. Thanks. I'm now surprised, though, to see that both it and SSK blue are beating out the original colors, though I suppose a lot of people are probably content with some cheap Unicomp or harvested caps in that regard.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2522 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 15:59:57 »
The xwhatsit solenoid drivers have arrived!

246753-0
246755-1

Offline architones

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Guam
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2523 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 18:03:58 »
Below is the latest pivot table report update of items ordered and configurations chosen.  A lot of controllers, solenoid drivers, and solenoids have been ordered in recent weeks!

Sales Ranking by Shipping Territory
52   Guam

Wow, I wonder if I'm the only person on Guam that bought this board!
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 July 2020, 18:08:04 by architones »

Offline Vizir

  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2524 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 15:24:47 »
placed an order for 2 solenoids and 2 solenoid-drivers.  :thumb:

Offline Pete

  • Posts: 57
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2525 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 18:28:50 »
Wow, I wonder if I'm the only person on Guam that bought this board!
Im glad to see Im not the only Australian to order one.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2526 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 18:48:18 »
Wow, I wonder if I'm the only person on Guam that bought this board!
Im glad to see Im not the only Australian to order one.

You're rank 5 out of 52 nations. I imagine you're far from the only one. I'm sure a major factor down there is having something with which to quickly and humanely dispatch attacking wildlife while at your computer.

I'm actually kind of surprised to see so many relatively small European countries so high in the list myself.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2527 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 18:57:05 »
I wanted to share a recent, thorough blog review of a new Model F F77 Keyboard with great photos:

http://ryan.abel.space/blog/model-f-keyboard-review

Offline andy74

  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2528 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 02:51:06 »
I wanted to share a recent, thorough blog review of a new Model F F77 Keyboard with great photos:

http://ryan.abel.space/blog/model-f-keyboard-review

Thanks for the post!I'm really looking forward to receiving mine.


Offline bun

  • Posts: 28
  • Location: NZ
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2529 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 06:33:47 »
Hi Folks,

My F62 finally arrived today, so I thought i'd give my first impressions for those who might still be waiting on theirs to be delivered.

I'll also report some frustrations in hopes that those who have theirs might already be able to help :)

First impressions:

  • Heavy! Super heavy and very well built. You could kill a man with this thing. I can find no faults at all with the physical construction. Extremely well made - Excellent job Ellipse.
  • Typing feel is amazing. The keys actuate well and for reasonably fast typers like myself it doesn't slow you down at all
  • Looks amazing - I have the black F62 HHKB model with blank keys. Looks even better in person than in photos.
  • Layout works well. It's been a while since i've used an HHKB layout so it's going to take some practice to get used to it again
  • Extremely noisy. No complaints here :)

Frustrations

  • Mine spent forever in shipping and it must have gotten thrown around a bit because a fair few of my keys weren't working well when I first fired it up. I spent quite a few hours reseating springs and ended up damaging a couple. I had to take it apart and reseat some flippers (paddles?) which fixed some but meant that others were misaligned somehow and meant that I needed to repeat the process. Not a great out of box experience (but understandably not a quality fault with the F62's engineering) - Just frustrating is all
  • Some keys register multiple presses and my backspace sometimes misses presses. This is really annoying me, the backspace especially. Still really love the thing though.

All in all a great keyboard. Love it but need to sort out the issues with the extra/missed keypresses. Sometimes I get multiple spaces, other times multiple f's. I've tried reseating the springs, replacing the springs, replacing with paddles/flippers from the first aid kit - I just don't know what to do about it so it's really frustrating me :'(

Small update - After reseating the backspace spring for the umpteenth time it almost never misses now (except for when I don't strike the key properly so perhaps I need to slow down and be more purposeful with my keypresses??!?) and I haven't seen any duplicate presses for a while either. Progress :thumb:

Is there such a thing as a "bedding in" period for buckling spring keyboard? It seems to be getting a bit better after a few hours of bashing away on it. I've only used topre/cherry keyboards up until now so i'm not sure what to expect of it quite yet.

Really loving this board so far - even with my initial frustrations ;D

Here's a photo of it in it's new home.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 July 2020, 07:20:32 by bun »

Offline rgleas

  • Posts: 31
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2530 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 10:15:55 »
So would this be a decent solenoid to use while waiting for the New Model F solenoids (assuming I get the solenoid driver soon)?
 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 July 2020, 10:22:01 by rgleas »

Offline Vizir

  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2531 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 10:47:21 »
So would this be a decent solenoid to use while waiting for the New Model F solenoids (assuming I get the solenoid driver soon)?
 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
You could order the solenoid from Ellipse, too. Same page where you order the solenoid drivers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2532 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 11:43:09 »
bun thanks for your feedback.

Have you checked out the beta QMK firmware over on the Deskthority project thread (feel free to post there and you should receive a link to test the QMK Model F firmware).  There are a number of reports saying QMK completely resolved the xwhatsit firmware issues.

Maybe your threshold needs to be raised a few values in the xwhatsit GUI?

Offline rgleas

  • Posts: 31
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2533 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 12:15:59 »
So would this be a decent solenoid to use while waiting for the New Model F solenoids (assuming I get the solenoid driver soon)?
 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
You could order the solenoid from Ellipse, too. Same page where you order the solenoid drivers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
So I did order a solenoid from Ellipse already, but I imagine I will get the driver earlier than the actual solenoid given I have an open order already out there. So if I did happen to get it early, I figured why not try out a cheap solenoid before the good one comes in. :P

Offline Vizir

  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2534 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 12:17:50 »
So would this be a decent solenoid to use while waiting for the New Model F solenoids (assuming I get the solenoid driver soon)?
 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
You could order the solenoid from Ellipse, too. Same page where you order the solenoid drivers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
So I did order a solenoid from Ellipse already, but I imagine I will get the driver earlier than the actual solenoid given I have an open order already out there. So if I did happen to get it early, I figured why not try out a cheap solenoid before the good one comes in.
Rgr. I have wondered about that solenoid before and did not get any conclusive answer. I ended up scavenging one from another IBM model f (blue switch).

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Offline Twsts

  • Posts: 9
  • Location: Norway
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2535 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 16:54:12 »
So would this be a decent solenoid to use while waiting for the New Model F solenoids (assuming I get the solenoid driver soon)?
 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
You could order the solenoid from Ellipse, too. Same page where you order the solenoid drivers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
So I did order a solenoid from Ellipse already, but I imagine I will get the driver earlier than the actual solenoid given I have an open order already out there. So if I did happen to get it early, I figured why not try out a cheap solenoid before the good one comes in.
Rgr. I have wondered about that solenoid before and did not get any conclusive answer. I ended up scavenging one from another IBM model f (blue switch).

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

That solenoid will work fine, while not giving the greater tactile feedback of the larger one it will give a good solenoid click.
I actually tried it on my F62. It clamps right under the cable clip, with no further modifications needed.



Offline rgleas

  • Posts: 31
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2536 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 21:28:56 »
So would this be a decent solenoid to use while waiting for the New Model F solenoids (assuming I get the solenoid driver soon)?
 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11015
You could order the solenoid from Ellipse, too. Same page where you order the solenoid drivers.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
So I did order a solenoid from Ellipse already, but I imagine I will get the driver earlier than the actual solenoid given I have an open order already out there. So if I did happen to get it early, I figured why not try out a cheap solenoid before the good one comes in.
Rgr. I have wondered about that solenoid before and did not get any conclusive answer. I ended up scavenging one from another IBM model f (blue switch).

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

That solenoid will work fine, while not giving the greater tactile feedback of the larger one it will give a good solenoid click.
I actually tried it on my F62. It clamps right under the cable clip, with no further modifications needed.
Show Image



Very nice thanks for sharing!

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2537 on: Sun, 12 July 2020, 14:48:05 »
Wazrach over on DT had a great recommendation for the classic case models: "I seemed to improve the key feel and sound ever so slightly by tightening the screws of the case" - definitely check to make sure your zinc case screws are fully tightened as it will press the bottom and top inner assembly plates closer together, which should help the sharpness of the clicks.

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2538 on: Sun, 12 July 2020, 16:39:05 »
Hypersphere posted a thorough review over on DT with nice photos and helpful advice.

I'd say that outside the original off-white/beige case color, red would probably be the one that I like most.

Here are some photos of recent new variations.

The blue gray / silver gray cases came out great and look even better in person than in these photos.  This is a great color and I had extras made beyond what was ordered, in case anyone wanted to upgrade or order a keyboard or case in this color. 

Also the Regular Gray Ultra Compact cases look great.  The finish is excellent.

Printed key caps in the photos are Unicomp caps and SSK type key caps (as someone over on DT just mentioned is on their new Model F).

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Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2539 on: Sun, 12 July 2020, 17:33:30 »
My F62 arrived a few days ago. Per COVID-19 precautions, I put the box in quarantine and opened it today. I requested early shipment w/o keys installed. Fortunately, I had a complete set of keys from an F-XT along with some spacebars and mods purchased some time ago from Unicomp.

Here are two views of the finished product:





After waiting for 4 years, I was eager to get started, so I forged ahead without first reading the Xwhatsit manual. This is a mistake -- you will ultimately save time by reading the manual. It might seem a bit daunting at first glance, but if you follow it step-by-step, the setup procedure becomes quite straightforward.

After installing all the keys and verifying that they all clicked properly, my first (premature) typing test revealed that all the keys were registering except the 6-key in the top (number) row. Naturally, I panicked, thinking I was going to have to do something drastic, such as taking the keyboard completely apart and repositioning the 6-key flipper. Not so! All that was required was reading the manual and discovering that I needed to systematically adjust the voltage threshold using the excellent Xwhatsit ibm-capsense software.

Again using the ibm-capsense software, I verified that my keyboard was programmed almost the way I wanted it -- a basic HHKB layout with a single function layer. I made a few minor changes, such as swapping the positions of the Command/Win keys with the Option/Alt keys and making CapsLock = Fn+Tab. Now that I have used the Xwhatsit software, I think I like it better than TMK/QMK or the Atmel FLIP program.

Mechanically, I changed the sound of the spacebar to my liking. As shipped, the spacebar had some rattle and the bottoming-out sound was a bit harsh. I applied some synthetic silicone grease to the stabilizer clips, inserted self-adhesive foam-rubber strips to the inside of the spacebar, and applied Poron Thin-Stik ultra-thin self-adhesive foam to the top plate where the stabilizer wire hits when the spacebar is pressed down. Now the spacebar makes a satisfying "thunk" and does not rattle.

I also like my keyboards angled, with the rear higher than the front. Therefore, rather than using the flat cork pads that ship with the F62, I put two small hemispherical bumpers near the front and two cone-shaped bumpers toward the rear.

Thus far, I have only three minor issues with my F62 setup, and two of these are problems with the Unicomp keys rather than the F62 per se. The Unicomp keys have some imperfections: first, the junction of the stem with the top of the key is visible from the top; second, the Return key binds a bit when struck on its left side. Nevertheless, I am grateful for Unicomp -- their keys and other parts have enabled me to complete projects with IBM keyboards that would have remained unfinished without them.

Regarding the F62 itself, this is just a matter of personal preference -- I would prefer to have a detachable cable -- I will consider installing a flush-mount connector as a future project.

The F62 experience is vastly different from that of my previous daily driver, a lubed and silenced HHKB, but I enjoy each of these keyboards for their own particular strengths. Although I still prefer the sound and feel of my first mechanical keyboard project -- an IBM XT with Soarer's converter -- to the sound and feel of my new F62, The layout, form factor, and size of the F62 is much more to my liking. Consequently, I anticipate using my F62 frequently. Fortunately, I have an isolated private office so that there is no one to complain about the noise, and I can switch to my HHKB when I am doing conference calls.

Regarding the overall appearance of my F62, I am extremely satisfied, especially with the red color of the case. I have ordered another F62 in black; now I wish I had opted for red for both of them. One of the F62s will go to my work office -- if the COVID-19 restrictions are ever lifted.

Finally, I would like to express my gratitude and congratulations to @Ellipse for the incredible job he has done with this monumental keyboard project and to @Xwhatsit for his amazing work with the controllers and software.

Offline TopreMoon

  • Posts: 33
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2540 on: Sun, 12 July 2020, 17:42:39 »
Ah, the red looks awesome! Debating really hard on whether I need a 'spare' case D:

Offline macclack

  • Posts: 446
  • Location: San Diego, CA
    • Macclack
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2541 on: Sun, 12 July 2020, 22:34:18 »

Mechanically, I changed the sound of the spacebar to my liking. As shipped, the spacebar had some rattle and the bottoming-out sound was a bit harsh. I applied some synthetic silicone grease to the stabilizer clips, inserted self-adhesive foam-rubber strips to the inside of the spacebar, and applied Poron Thin-Stik ultra-thin self-adhesive foam to the top plate where the stabilizer wire hits when the spacebar is pressed down. Now the spacebar makes a satisfying "thunk" and does not rattle.

Thanks for posting this. Please post a typing video of this--I'd like to hear the spacebar if possible.

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2542 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 14:58:07 »
First New Model F trackpoint mod!

Submitted to me by a non-forum member.  I believe there are multiple options for doing the trackpoint mod as described here:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questions/question/any-plans-for-trackpoint-version/

"I used the Unicomp M13 trackpoint but the others I mentioned will also work.  I used the unicomp controller and have two USB cables running out the back.  If the current controller has any extra inputs that handle PS2 or some unused GPIO pins then it could be integrated into the existing controller with the stand alone SK8702 trackpoint controller.  I plan on going bluetooth in which case I can join the two controllers through a hub internally and not have to worry about two controllers and cables.  I used the Unicomp GHB keys with the cutout to clear the trackpoint."

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Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2543 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 15:36:25 »
First New Model F trackpoint mod!

That's ridiculous ... and awesome.

Offline Mr_BeastQuake

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: Oregon
    • Reddit
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2544 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 15:47:50 »
Hypersphere posted a thorough review over on DT with nice photos and helpful advice.

I'd say that outside the original off-white/beige case color, red would probably be the one that I like most.

Here are some photos of recent new variations.

The blue gray / silver gray cases came out great and look even better in person than in these photos.  This is a great color and I had extras made beyond what was ordered, in case anyone wanted to upgrade or order a keyboard or case in this color. 

Also the Regular Gray Ultra Compact cases look great.  The finish is excellent.

Printed key caps in the photos are Unicomp caps and SSK type key caps (as someone over on DT just mentioned is on their new Model F).

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silver gray ftw!

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1264
  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2545 on: Mon, 13 July 2020, 19:24:22 »
Someone asked about screw sizes - thought I'd put all the sizes in one place:

Yes you can purchase extra screws from me please email me for current pricing and to confirm availability.  All classic case screws are Pan Head screws.  You can also purchase them locally or online for a low cost, probably lower than my cost. 

However I recommend ordering from me if you want the Torx T8 screws I'm using for the compact cases (I also sell Phillips head compact case screws).  They are of excellent quality and are custom made just for this project from a brand new mold.  (the factory is replacing the lower quality phillips head screws on all the ultra compact cases that have not yet shipped to me)

Always compress the compact case right next to the screw with firm pressure (the same firm pressure to the screw with the screwdriver), go slowly, and use the correct bit (Phillips #1 PH1 for compact case screws and PH2 for classic style case screws and controller ground screws).  Use only manual hand screwdrivers.  Do not overtighten or the screw will strip.  The small screws are far more likely to strip if the screwdriver slips.

6/32 x 3/16 in controller and P clip screws (total 3)

6/32 x 1/2 in classic style zinc case 4 screws

M2.5 x 4mm compact case 4 screws to attach bottom inner assembly to case

M2.5 x 20mm compact case 12 screws

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2546 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 13:11:39 »

Mechanically, I changed the sound of the spacebar to my liking. As shipped, the spacebar had some rattle and the bottoming-out sound was a bit harsh. I applied some synthetic silicone grease to the stabilizer clips, inserted self-adhesive foam-rubber strips to the inside of the spacebar, and applied Poron Thin-Stik ultra-thin self-adhesive foam to the top plate where the stabilizer wire hits when the spacebar is pressed down. Now the spacebar makes a satisfying "thunk" and does not rattle.

Thanks for posting this. Please post a typing video of this--I'd like to hear the spacebar if possible.

Things are quite busy at work, but I will try to make a typing recording and post it here when I can find a spare moment. Thanks for the suggestion.

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2547 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 13:17:03 »
Ah, the red looks awesome! Debating really hard on whether I need a 'spare' case D:
Thanks. Red and burgundy red have become my favorite colors for keyboard cases.

There's nothing to debate -- given that you are here on Geekhack, well, of course, you "need" a spare case!

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2548 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 07:11:51 »
@macclack: Per your request, I have cobbled together a video with some typing sounds of my new F62 along with an IBM-XT for comparison.


As I mentioned previously, I prefer the sound and feel of the XT. However, I find the F62 more usable because of its smaller footprint and standard layout in the main typing area. On the other hand, a usability feature that I installed on my XT is a flush-mount USB connector, making it easier to swap keyboards on my desk setup. I may eventually do the same for my F62.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2020, 08:17:38 by Hypersphere »

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2549 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 11:00:55 »
@Ellipse: (or anyone who might have ideas regarding this):

Some of the keys on my F62 -- especially the Enter/Return key -- make a harsh metallic sound when bottoming out. I don't think the skirt of the key touches the top plate of the keyboard when pressed down all the way, so I presume the noise comes from the key striking the top of the barrel. How might this sound be attenuated? I have seen mention of using washers/O-rings from an IBM/Lexmark Wheelwriter, but I have not seen any details on such a mod, and I have not seen any of these washers for sale (apart from purchasing a complete Wheelwriter). Any thoughts on this?

Update: It appears that the Wheelwriters that had O-rings installed put them around the outside of the barrels, resting on the top of the barrel plate, per the following post:

https://trello.com/c/uYSx2zmT/7-ibm-wheelwriter-5-o-rings



« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2020, 11:32:29 by Hypersphere »