GH-122.2017 Mods, features, and additions

[nathanrosspowell]

I remember some alps custom pcb having uncommon positions upside down. Could that be used here?

In general, no, because it interferes with the LED pads.  Worse, the CAPS LED is fully wired for use as an indicator, e.g. with a windowed keycap.  In some cases this can work; the numpad vertical 2x positions use this method.

Having said that, I had not looked at the CAPS position with rotation in mind, but I'll try various combinations.  Thanks for the idea.

Oh, wait.  Can an Alps keycap be used with a switch rotated 90 degrees?  I think not.  (Please correct me if I am wrong!)

I'll play with this, but I don't want to give up an LED for windowed keycaps to fix this problem.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

p.s.  Crap.  Does this also mean I have to orient all Alps switches horizontally?  Those numpad positions aren't...

For the alphas you can only rotate them 180 degrees.

Alps vertical numpad 2u positions do need the stem rotating 90 degrees (like you have it), but in not sure if this is an absolute rule or just the general case. A seasoned Alps user will have to verify.

See the Monarch PCB for an example https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.0

[pomk]

Only 180 degree orientation changes are allowed for alps.

[samwisekoi]

[REQEUESTED FEATURE]
Split spacebar options
eg(row: 1'5, 1, 1'5, 1, 2'25, 1, 2'75, 1'5, 1, 1'5)
eg(1'5, 1, 1'5, 1, 1'25, 1'25, 1'25, 1'25, 1, 1'5, 1, 1'5)

I am going to try your second proposal.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Phenix]

Great!
It matches nicely with most GMK /SA sets..

[samwisekoi]

Only 180 degree orientation changes are allowed for alps.

Alps vertical numpad 2u positions do need the stem rotating 90 degrees (like you have it), but in not sure if this is an absolute rule or just the general case. A seasoned Alps user will have to verify.

Can someone authoritative weigh in on this point?  I can rotate the numpad vertical either way, but not both.

Someone who might actually build an Alps version, please specify required numpad 2x orientation and provide pics or a source.

Thanks!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

[samwisekoi]

Split bottom row added: 1.50, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.50

(Nice layout, Phenix!  It re-used the ANSI spacebar switch, and only added four new traces.  Good job.)

NOTE TO SELF: THIS BOTTOM ROW NEEDS A SECOND ROUND OF CHECKING TO MAKE SURE MY MATH WAS CORRECT.

Anyhow, have a new layout image.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

[Phenix]

thanks!
From the image it looks more like 1.5u keys (but probably that's just me who cant read pcbs well enough) in the bottom row.
Out of interest: Is something (with LeftArrowCluster) possible?
1, 1. 1, X, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.50

(Where X is 1 or 1.25u)

A note to others for split spacebars:
My left thumb is under V in home position

[samwisekoi]

thanks!
From the image it looks more like 1.5u keys (but probably that's just me who cant read pcbs well enough) in the bottom row.
Out of interest: Is something (with LeftArrowCluster) possible?
1, 1. 1, X, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.50

(Where X is 1 or 1.25u)

A note to others for split spacebars:
My left thumb is under V in home position

I probably did it wrong ;^).  Thus all the CHECK THE MATH warnings.

My right thumb is under the N key, and is the only spacebar strike I make -- except when gaming.  Then i use my left thumb under the V.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Phenix]

No problem, feel free to add as many positions as you want..

(I bet there are some cool alternative bottom row options (could one mount an thumbstick in it.. Just wondering..)

[Data]

Man, I don't envy you having to add Alps compatibility.  The Cherry-only board was crazy enough.

[samwisekoi]

Nope.  The split bottom row math was correct.  Here is the double-check.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

Out of interest: Is something (with LeftArrowCluster) possible?
1, 1. 1, X, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 1, 1.50, 1, 1.50

Sorry, missed this.

Yes, easy.  The 2016 board supported 1-1-1-gap-1-1.50-7.00, etc.  And due to IBM weirdness, the gap is 0.340" + 0.375", or about 0.95 key spaces.  So with the added split-shift for 2017, your desired layout can be done where X=0.715".

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[gadzkun]

wooow gigantic size board, i want it :3

[Phenix]

So 1u fits?
I need to calculate inch some time

[samwisekoi]

So 1u fits?
I need to calculate inch some time

No; sorry.  There will always be a gap between the blocks because of the IBM spacing.  Details below...

Both IBM and Cherry started out as US companies, so the dimensions are non-metric.  Cherry chose 3/4" or 0.750" as a standard switch unit, which is now listed as 19.05mm.  Half a switch position is 0.375", which can be filled with a 1.5 unit keycap.

There is no standard for gaps between blocks, although I found both 1/4" and 0.375" examples.  And when IBM made the Model F (or earlier) they used the 0.750" width for keycap units.  24 keys is therefore 18" exactly, and with four blocks there are three gaps.  Apparently to keep things even, IBM set the total of the three gaps at 1 inch, which I measured as 0.340", 0.330", and 0.330" from left to right,for a total width of 19".  And because I was aiming the PCB at the Unicomp version of the IBM case, I used those same gap widths.

The problem is that there are no fractional keycap widths that can fill a 1/3" gap, so no keycap can fill that position.

And thus you find the reason I included moving to 0.375" gaps in my list of potential mods.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

[Phenix]

thanks for the detailed info!
its no problem at all, I was just interested in the possibility.

[Data]

I don't really see a lot of value moving to the wider gutters and abandoning the Unicomp as one of the cheaper case alternatives.  But it's your design.  Show us what you have in mind.  Maybe there's some sweet trick with the 1.5u mods that we haven't considered yet?

For the record, it was no more or less difficult for me to draw 0.340" and 0.330" gutters over 0.375" gutters when I designed the case I'm currently using.  /shrug

[samwisekoi]

I don't really see a lot of value moving to the wider gutters and abandoning the Unicomp as one of the cheaper case alternatives.  But it's your design.  Show us what you have in mind.  Maybe there's some sweet trick with the 1.5u mods that we haven't considered yet?

For the record, it was no more or less difficult for me to draw 0.340" and 0.330" gutters over 0.375" gutters when I designed the case I'm currently using.  /shrug

I agree.  The only reason to change is to add keycaps across the gaps.  And doing that at the cost of abandoning the $20 Unicomp case seems to be a bad idea.

However, this is an Interest Check thread, and if eleventy-seven people had endorsed the change, I'd listen.  You can see the changes I have made, and so far, this isn't one of them.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Phenix]

Most likely, as it is nice to have the option to use an cheap case.

[Data]

I don't really see a lot of value moving to the wider gutters and abandoning the Unicomp as one of the cheaper case alternatives.  But it's your design.  Show us what you have in mind.  Maybe there's some sweet trick with the 1.5u mods that we haven't considered yet?

For the record, it was no more or less difficult for me to draw 0.340" and 0.330" gutters over 0.375" gutters when I designed the case I'm currently using.  /shrug

I agree.  The only reason to change is to add keycaps across the gaps.  And doing that at the cost of abandoning the $20 Unicomp case seems to be a bad idea.

However, this is an Interest Check thread, and if eleventy-seven people had endorsed the change, I'd listen.  You can see the changes I have made, and so far, this isn't one of them.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

No problem.  I thought this was something you came up with.  I didn't intend to crap all over the idea, just trying to understand the motivation.  Thanks for explaining.

[Niomosy]

So that feeling on my leg was it getting pulled?  Hmmph.  And even so, I got the 6 wrong?  Sigh.

I'll look at the keypad split-outs, however.

Happy Saturday!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

Well, I'll be honest.  I would love a split 122.  I wasn't positive if such a thing was realistic for this run or something more to plan for in the future.  I figured I'd mention it and see what happened.  The worst case is that it's not feasible for this round.  No harm in asking.

As for the 6, I think that ends up a religious battle though I'm a 6-on-the-left proponent so I was ribbing you a bit on that piece.  As it stands, the 6 was more for gaming as I make heavy use of it in WoW but might consider just a flat gaming keyboard for that and leave the split to handle work if it came down to that. 

[samwisekoi]

As for the 6, I think that ends up a religious battle though I'm a 6-on-the-left proponent so I was ribbing you a bit on that piece.  As it stands, the 6 was more for gaming as I make heavy use of it in WoW but might consider just a flat gaming keyboard for that and leave the split to handle work if it came down to that.

Ah, TIL I am a member of the certainly-correct 6-on-the-left sect.  All hail diagonal splits!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Phenix]

If more are interested in an split -split-option:
Maybe imitating the VE.A for where the splits go?

[+hopefully if you add split halfes some of the other parts like navpad/numpad/makropad(1, 2, 3, 4) become movable/modular as well..

[Data]

OK...

Gun to my head, this is how I would split up the GH-122.



3 pieces: Left, Right, Numpad.  For the record I think it's just a silly idea for an already comically-oversized board.

[samwisekoi]

OK...

Gun to my head, this is how I would split up the GH-122.

Show Image

3 pieces: Left, Right, Numpad.  For the record I think it's just a silly idea for an already comically-oversized board.

Oh sure.  I can do that!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
========== I totally won't do that, but I absolutely could! ==========

[Niomosy]

OK...

Gun to my head, this is how I would split up the GH-122.

Show Image

3 pieces: Left, Right, Numpad.  For the record I think it's just a silly idea for an already comically-oversized board.

That's the split I was thinking as well.  Basically a big brother to the VE.A in terms of layout.

[Spaceman1200]

Only 180 degree orientation changes are allowed for alps.

Alps vertical numpad 2u positions do need the stem rotating 90 degrees (like you have it), but in not sure if this is an absolute rule or just the general case. A seasoned Alps user will have to verify.

Can someone authoritative weigh in on this point?  I can rotate the numpad vertical either way, but not both

Like so?
All of my alps boards are like this btw, With the exception of one with the 2x1u's in the numpad which are placed normally

[samwisekoi]

Only 180 degree orientation changes are allowed for alps.

Alps vertical numpad 2u positions do need the stem rotating 90 degrees (like you have it), but in not sure if this is an absolute rule or just the general case. A seasoned Alps user will have to verify.

Can someone authoritative weigh in on this point?  I can rotate the numpad vertical either way, but not both

Like so?

Show Image

All of my alps boards are like this btw, With the exception of one with the 2x1u's in the numpad which are placed normally

Yes.  Exactly like that.  Thank you very much!

Alps users: Numpad 2x vertical switches will be aligned with vertical stem mounts as identified by nathanrosspowell.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Phenix]

http://imgur.com/a/n89R1

Could you also add split option like this?
(I am mainly asking for left, right, nav, numpad)

The blue lines are just the positions were one could cut the extra keys off

[samwisekoi]

http://imgur.com/a/n89R1

Could you also add split option like this?
(I am mainly asking for left, right, nav, numpad)

The blue lines are just the positions were one could cut the extra keys off

The row traces all go up on the right edge.  That is just one of the obstacles to nav-block and numpad modularity.  I'm pondering those now, but it will take some time and effort.  I will try, but I cannot promise to provide those lower red slices just yet.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Phenix]

Thanks that you consider putting on the effort for this change!

[TerryMathews]

I can't wait for this. If anyone wants to sell their 2016 PCB off because they're getting 2017, let me know. I'll take it.

[Niomosy]

This might turn out to be one hell of a monster.  I am excite.

[jal]

This might turn out to be one hell of a monster.  I am excite.

I'm pretty sure it will. Shaping up nicely. (Clackasorous? Velocomech? Printed Circuit Bruiser?)

[Data]

This might turn out to be one hell of a monster.  I am excite.

I'm pretty sure it will. Shaping up nicely. (Clackasorous? Velocomech? Printed Circuit Bruiser?)

[samwisekoi]

I back-tracked to v1.3.1 and then began moving forward with the new splits.  Those new splits will require many new traces, and thus the v.2.x.x designation.

If I cannot get the new layout to work AND do so in a manner that I am certain is electrically functional, I will likely roll-back to v.1.3.1 and move that to GB.  We shall see!

Anyhow, here is the current state, including the new splits WITHOUT the needed trace re-routing.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

[samwisekoi]

Couldn't make it happen without a full re-layout.  That MAY happen at some point in the future, but for now, the board will include the numpad.

There are still some things I need to do with the controller section, but this is what the board will physically be for 2017.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

[xondat]

Couldn't make it happen without a full re-layout.  That MAY happen at some point in the future, but for now, the board will include the numpad.

There are still some things I need to do with the controller section, but this is what the board will physically be for 2017.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

Physical final version! Is the USB in the same spot? Is a public .step or .dwg (etc) file possible?

[samwisekoi]

Physical final version! Is the USB in the same spot? Is a public .step or .dwg (etc) file possible?

Calm down there, soldier.  All in good time, all in good time.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

Ok, most of the controller improvements and trace fixes are complete.  This is a useful stopping point for showing the current design.

There is some more to do on the traces and lighting circuits, so those things are still coming.  AND, for the impatient, while this PCB is generally in its final format, exact placement of mounting holes is likely to change a bit as I think through mounting with and without a plate.  Then -- and only then -- will I publish a detailed physical specification and drawings.

Finally, since I've made several changes to controller traces and added Alps* support, I will likely do a pre-production run of 10 PCBs to verify the design.  Then we will have an actual group buy.  No ETA for either of those just yet.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

*Alps is the correct spelling for Alps Electric, even though the logo is in all-caps. 

[Phenix]

to bad that the numpad is out for now, nevertheless I really like that you are going all-in on adding more features!

[samwisekoi]

to bad that the numpad is out for now, nevertheless I really like that you are going all-in on adding more features!

Yeah, there are just too many traces on a board this big.  Especially with just that little corner to work with and 0.10"/2.54mm pad spacing to enable normal humans to work on it.  Consider that 20 columns plus 7 columns and the CAPS LED mean 3 inches of pads that need to fit above the 1.5" nav cluster.  And the traces to those pads create a ribbon .870" across that has to fit into a .750" space between the number row and the function block.

Solvable problems, but much easier to solve when the initial design included features to support an eventual solution.  The GH-122.2016 didn't, so I am afraid the GH-122.2017 won't either.

For now, we'll focus on adding features that didn't make it to the board last year!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

[Phenix]

Are trackpoint holes also interesting for others?
(ghb,fgv,hjn clusters?)

While the numpad split wont work out for now - the mid-split is then as well not feasible for now?

[TerryMathews]

If you're really considering a split layout, wouldn't it make sense to put the numpad on a seperate controller a la Winkeyless's B.87 EX?

Might also eliminate enough columns that you could step down from a Teensy 2.0++ to Teensy 2.0.

[Niomosy]

Not too worried about keeping the numpad.  I actually make decent use of mine for work. 

[Phenix]

Well..
I use my Numpad occassionally.. But I would prefer to have it detachable..
but in the end its up to Sam which features are/arent added

[samwisekoi]

Detailed view of the controller section.  Brown is backside legends; yellow is frontside legend.

This version (v.1.6.0) now has pads for a backlighting circuit to the left of the Teensy.  The complete set of indicator LEDs, resistors, and a new jumper block are now on the right.  Spare resistor pads have been provided in both sections.

This means that:

a) All users can easily relocate/wire the indicator LEDs with a 4-wire cable.

b) Manual wiring of a backlight circuit is supported directly via power, a transistor mount, resistor(s), and pads for running wires to LEDs and resistors anywhere you want backlighting.  All positions already had MX-compatible LED pads for manual backlighting.  This just makes the task simpler.  (Please note that the CAPS switch is already wired for an indicator LED, so those traces will have to be modified if a backlight is desired at that position.

As always, through-hole components with 0.100"/2.54mm spacing for easy soldering are used throughout.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

p.s.  I may run a trace from a PWM pin from the Teensy directly to the signal pin on the transistor.  I'd like comments on that idea, please.

[kmba]

in for updates.

[rpelkey13]

I remember seeing some initial PCB designs for this project last year and being absolutely amazed at it, and now stumbling onto this new version I'm still amazed at it. Owning an M122 I can definitely appreciate boards with tons of keys, especially for games with remappable hotkeys. I might be eating lots of instant noodles for the month afterwards, but I'm definitely in when this hits the buy stage. One thing I'm wondering is if there's any chance of adding support for an RGB strip. I know RGB is a meme, but with QMK being able to control strips, it feels kinda wasteful to not have a simple underglow available for the banging acrylic bottom case I'll more than likely be commissioning.

[samwisekoi]

One thing I'm wondering is if there's any chance of adding support for an RGB strip. I know RGB is a meme, but with QMK being able to control strips, it feels kinda wasteful to not have a simple underglow available for the banging acrylic bottom case I'll more than likely be commissioning.

How many pins does it take?  Can you point me to a thread with some design details?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.