Update 2017.02.14: I haven't found a better price anywhere. I'll be writing up the GB text, watch for it as soon as I figure out whatever has to happen to be posted in the GB section.
Update 2017.02.12: So, I talked to Digikey. No further price breaks, even at 25k pieces. I'll be doing some further poking around tonight, but I think the assumption at this point is that this is final pricing.
If you know of another source we should look in to, please let me know ASAP. Otherwise, we'll become a group buy and go with this.
Update 2017.02.12: Numbers from Digikey are in. They didn't offer any further per-piece discount on on order of 20,000: $.21220 and $.09408 on 8134-HC-8P2 and 9-1437514-0, respectively, is what they're offering. I will call them on Monday to see if there's a price break around there somewhere, and also to push forward the questions about packaging, which they ignored. Either way, once that's done I'll convert this to a GB and we will be off.
Update 2017.02.09: There is no update. There will be one very soon.
Update 2017.02.03: Asking DK for a quote, and also exploring a possible alternative. The count is now at least 15,000 of each; I'm also going to ask for a figure on 20k, but doubt that will move the needle much on price.
Nothing is settled. If you're interested, please fill out the form. We'll likely become a GB next week.
Also, looking at people's responses, the switch sockets will be gold. If you want lead, cinviloq is selling batches on MM:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/5ricz8/usny_h_holtite_sockets_for_hot_swap_switches_w/ . Naturally, I don't want to drain off demand here, but not everyone wants gold.
Update 2017.02.02: I'm waiting on one response I think will be coming, and then I'm going to take the numbers to Digikey. If you haven't yet, please fill out the form.
Current numbers, not counting my own or the other largish one I'm expecting:
Switch sockets: 2850, gold is folks' clear preference.
LED sockets: 2550, lead/tin is currently more popular by one vote.
Update 2017.01.29: Interest check form for your form-filling pleasure:
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Holtite ICHowdy, folks. I’m curious to find out if we can make it worthwhile to order a big pile of Holtite sockets.
First up, if you have no idea what I’m talking about, but want to, please read the next section. If you have no idea what I’m talking about and want to keep it that way, I’m unclear on why you’re still reading. Otherwise, you can skip the next section.
What the...?
You stick them in the holes of your PCB, and then can seat switches without soldering. This makes the switches removable, so you can change them without desoldering. A different model exists that is the correct size for LEDs.
I see some people misspelling them as ‘hotlites’, too. There is a video over at /r/mk on seating them:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5a399o/guide_how_to_make_your_pcb_hotswappable/ Also, some folks over there have created a spreadsheet to keep track of PCBs for which these work and for which they don’t:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K1qt70E2mcuaHBXYrpPHXlpl7FNaXLo0u_TOe67cVdY/pubhtml?gid=986897710&single=true Application spec for sockets:
http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=114-13033&DocType=SS&DocLang=EN Ways in which these don't workGenerally, it seems they work better on Korean-designed PCBs. The important part is that they are not guaranteed to work on just any old board. Your milage is likely to vary.
Another point is that, especially on the bottom row, alternate layout accomodations frequently end up resulting in cramped PCBs, with some through-holes being odd shapes or really tiny. You can’t use these there, and will have to solder those, depending on your exact layout/PCB combo. Also, also, sometimes through-holes overlap, so there isn't enough surrounding material in which to seat these. Sometimes that can be overcome by soldering them.
In my very limited experience, sometimes pulling a switch will also pull the socket. I’ve experienced no PCB damage from this, but I have lost a couple that went flying. This could be that I didn’t seat them well enough, but I suspect it is just the nature of the beast - through-hole sizes vary.
There is an associated tool sold for seating these. It costs over $300, and I have not used it or even seen it in person. The soldering-iron method described in the video above works for me.
The takeaway here is that they aren't magic, designed for this particular application, or suitable for every PCB.
Motivation My first experiment with Holtites to facilitate hotswappable switches went fairly well, and I imagine I’m going to be using quite a bit more over the next year. In fact, I ordered more last week. The price points are annoying; they’re spendy in quantities suitable for a single board, and the volume price breaks make a serious difference, but at quantities that are absurd for anyone who isn’t mass-producing boards for a living.
That naturally suggests a group buy. Below are details on what I’ve worked out, and some questions for those who would be interested in going in on this. But before that, a word about me.
This would be my first group buy. I’m relatively new in these parts, but I like to think have been a decent citizen in our conversations, and I’ve been a fairly active participant in others’ buys. On the plus side, I am a very good imitation of a responsible adult, have run a company in the past and worked for myself for over a decade, so I'm pretty confident in my ability to handle the logistics, accounting, communications and whatnot. While I’m new here, I’ve been actively online since the early 90s under my real name, and have many, many reasons not to poison that. If something with the group buy somehow went massively pear-shaped, I am sufficiently financially stable to spend my way out of any mistakes I make, and will make sure that everyone who takes part ends up whole. All of that said, I wouldn’t fault anyone here for not extending trust.
My goals are to stockpile a fair pile for myself at a decent price, and will not mark anything up. Depending on demand, I’m considering investing in an additional little pile of these and selling those at a markup at my own store, but that may or may not happen. Either way, I intend to keep this entirely transparent, with the costs public and early-and-often communication as it proceeds, if it proceeds.
Now that that's out of the way People are calling two different pin sockets ‘Holtites’ (after the series name): receptacles for switches, and for LEDs.
For the switch sockets, there are two choices: gold or tin/lead. Gold is of course more expensive, and for our purposes, entirely cosmetic.
For the LED sockets, Digikey requires a large (50K) minimum order, and their pricing is significantly worse than Mouser. Unfortunately, Mouser is backordered, estimating nine weeks lead-time. But for a group buy, that perhaps works out OK. I have some on backorder there, mainly to see if that 9-week figure is real - sometimes it isn't. I’ve only found them in lead - as far as I know, there is no gold option made.
Pricing:Starting at 2500 pieces, the lead switch sockets cost $0.1559 each, the gold, $0.2122. I have not yet asked for quotes on larger orders, pending getting an idea from you all about what sort of volume we’re actually talking about.
Lead (
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/8134-HC-8P3/A114359-ND/1151726):
Gold (
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/8134-HC-8P2/A114358-ND/2188091):
For the LED sockets, Mouser sells them for $.084 each in lots of 5000. at 50K, the cost is $.079/ea.
The second-worst thing I can imagine happening here is getting a some huge number of these in one big bag, and subsequently spending the next three years of my life counting them out. I’m going to ask Digikey and Mouser about possible options there, but the recent order I made of 1000 came in 10 100-count bags, so if that holds for larger orders (and if custom-count bagging is too expensive) I think these will be purchased and delivered in 100-count increments.
As a bit of anecdata, my first order of these was for 250, and I ran out socketing a TKL with a numpad. I think I lost four and ruined another two installing them.
So, questions:
- Interested?
- Unless we end up looking at insane volume, it would be best to pick either tin/lead or gold, so we can maximize the volume discount. I’m thinking gold, because it seems to me that people like that sort of thing, but I’m frequently wrong. What are your preferences?
- I have the impression that the LED sockets will be less popular. SIP sockets are a reasonable substitute in many situations, and anyway, lots of people don’t care about LEDs. OTOH, if you’re already committed to this insanity, my thought is if the board might ever end up in the hands of someone who likes the blinkenlights, they aren’t comparatively a huge additional expense; may as well socket it all up. So the question is, assuming you’re in for a packet of switch sockets, would you also go for the LED sockets?
- Mr. T vs. Mothra: who wins?
