Author Topic: swill's minimal case design  (Read 127424 times)

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Offline tjweir

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 01 January 2014, 20:37:35 »
2 x 75% boards.

Awesome, thanks.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 06 January 2014, 20:18:19 »
All the raw materials for the prototypes are starting to slowly trickle in.  The only thing I am missing to get started is the silicon sheets, which are stuck in the postal system.  I will start prototyping with my Filco TKL to see how things go.  The metal back plates will wait till I make sure the kinks are worked out with the materials which are easier to work with.

Here are some shots of some of what I have already...

50042-0 50044-1 50046-2 50048-3 50050-4

Offline Pacifist

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 06 January 2014, 20:23:00 »
All the raw materials for the prototypes are starting to slowly trickle in.  The only thing I am missing to get started is the silicon sheets, which are stuck in the postal system.  I will start prototyping with my Filco TKL to see how things go.  The metal back plates will wait till I make sure the kinks are worked out with the materials which are easier to work with.

Here are some shots of some of what I have already...

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Sweet!

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 06 January 2014, 23:05:59 »
noice

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 06 January 2014, 23:07:28 »
Interested!

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 07 January 2014, 05:20:55 »
Definitely interested in this work, swill.

Offline mooswa

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 19 January 2014, 22:36:50 »
Me too!

Offline Pacifist

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 00:49:52 »
Do you have an estimate of how much one case would cost?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 17:04:19 »
Do you have an estimate of how much one case would cost?

It depends on which one.  I am expecting the Acrylic one to probably be in the ballpark of $25-30.  The metal back plate one, $30-35.  The wood ones are going to be much more expensive because I am getting The Beast and Nubbinator to make me the wedges.  I will probably just keep those for my own use.

I am trying to put together a DIY version for the acrylic case and I am trying to get the costs down to like $20 so it gives people a very cost effective way to put together a case...

Offline dagdrivaren

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 01:26:30 »
A question from a newbie: that layer of silicon, how durable is that? It won't break down after a few years?
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 10:04:09 »
A question from a newbie: that layer of silicon, how durable is that? It won't break down after a few years?

This stuff is designed for gaskets in extreme conditions.  It will outlast your keyboard...

Offline JPG

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 10:18:51 »
Hum, count me interested for a 60% case with a plate!
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 10:48:29 »

Hum, count me interested for a 60% case with a plate!

I will not provide plates, but you can use one from somewhere else.

Offline JPG

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 10:51:22 »

Hum, count me interested for a 60% case with a plate!

I will not provide plates, but you can use one from somewhere else.


So the plate would not be anchored to the case itself then ... anyone know if it would be a problem? I suspect not since 60+ switches will anchor it, but still.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 11:31:29 »


Hum, count me interested for a 60% case with a plate!

I will not provide plates, but you can use one from somewhere else.


So the plate would not be anchored to the case itself then ... anyone know if it would be a problem? I suspect not since 60+ switches will anchor it, but still.

If you use a plate, yes, it would be bolted to the back plate of the case (in the same way the pcb only option would be bolted to the back plate).

My point was only that I do not want to get into the hassle of getting plates cut for all sorts of layouts and sizes, so I will not be producing/providing plates.  I will do my best to support plates from existing plate providers (as long as I don't go broke trying to get samples of them all).

I think the bread and butter of this case design will actually be the pcb mounted approach. Because of the silicone sheet, the pcb mounted option will have a much more solid feel than a traditional pcb mounted case. By adding a plate I suspect that  we will lose some of the 'feel' properties that the silicone will provide.

We will see once I have some different prototypes together. :)

Offline dagdrivaren

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 11:58:40 »
This is wonderful. I'll make sure to follow your project closely. As for the silicone sheet, does it have name?
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Offline JPG

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 12:35:36 »


Hum, count me interested for a 60% case with a plate!

I will not provide plates, but you can use one from somewhere else.


So the plate would not be anchored to the case itself then ... anyone know if it would be a problem? I suspect not since 60+ switches will anchor it, but still.

If you use a plate, yes, it would be bolted to the back plate of the case (in the same way the pcb only option would be bolted to the back plate).

My point was only that I do not want to get into the hassle of getting plates cut for all sorts of layouts and sizes, so I will not be producing/providing plates.  I will do my best to support plates from existing plate providers (as long as I don't go broke trying to get samples of them all).

I think the bread and butter of this case design will actually be the pcb mounted approach. Because of the silicone sheet, the pcb mounted option will have a much more solid feel than a traditional pcb mounted case. By adding a plate I suspect that  we will lose some of the 'feel' properties that the silicone will provide.

We will see once I have some different prototypes together. :)


I get it. Well since I only have plate mount switches available and don't intend to get anything else for now, I will find myself a plate if I get this case. Anyway, I aim for a poker layout, so nothing hard to find.


I will wait to get the pcb and stuff anyway before I do my move!
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 23 January 2014, 14:38:06 »

This is wonderful. I'll make sure to follow your project closely. As for the silicone sheet, does it have name?

Not really, there are many different producers with lots of different specs. I am focusing on the ones with high temp ratings as I know some components like the controller are likely to get hot.

Offline goobafish

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:42:20 »
I would love one of these to re-case a QFR.

Offline clickclack123

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 28 January 2014, 21:46:16 »
I'm very interested in this as a case for prototype designs that I have in my head. Doing a custom pcb would make it possible to have the keyboard lower-profile than hardwired plate-mounted prototypes.

Ideally I might like it to be deeper than 4.5" though, maybe up to 5.5"? It might be fine to just make the pcb slightly larger than the base though, and it could hang slightly over the front or back or both.

Keep us posted!!

Offline moonexe

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 09:06:17 »
I had a similar idea to this, but inside a full case, and without all the thought behind it. :rolleyes:
I'm interested to see how this turns out :D

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Offline Razer1987

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 06 February 2014, 04:55:25 »
Hello,

Do you know where i could find big half cylinder rubber feet like the one in your prototype ?
It seems to be the perfect combination to add weight and stability.

I find "laptop lifts" but they are too thin, they could only work for the front side to keep a low height.

Thank you for your concept, i am gonna work on something like that for my future keyboard.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 06 February 2014, 10:01:46 »
Hello,

Do you know where i could find big half cylinder rubber feet like the one in your prototype ?
It seems to be the perfect combination to add weight and stability.

I find "laptop lifts" but they are too thin, they could only work for the front side to keep a low height.

Thank you for your concept, i am gonna work on something like that for my future keyboard.

I got them from here: http://www.bumperspecialties.com/

They are a bit expensive, but I was having a hell of a time finding them in the sizes I wanted...

Offline Razer1987

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 06 February 2014, 11:51:20 »
Thank you for your reply but i didn't speak about the ones you bought but the one you imagine for your design (first picture on the opening post)

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 06 February 2014, 22:08:48 »
Thank you for your reply but i didn't speak about the ones you bought but the one you imagine for your design (first picture on the opening post)

Oh.  Good luck.  :)  I looked for a while and was not able to find them easily.

I think it is possible to find them, but I could not find them initially, so I moved to half sphere bumpers for now.

If you are able to find them, please post back for me.  :P

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 06 February 2014, 22:39:24 »
Cool ideas! 

Regarding the black rubber cylindrical feet: can they just be made to specification?  Rubber rods of certain diameter, cut to specified section lengths, then split in half.  Double-sided adhesive tape od some sort to attach them to the case.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 07 February 2014, 13:32:26 »
Cool ideas! 

Regarding the black rubber cylindrical feet: can they just be made to specification?  Rubber rods of certain diameter, cut to specified section lengths, then split in half.  Double-sided adhesive tape od some sort to attach them to the case.

Yes, I am considering this, but for initial prototypes I am going to just use what I can get easily.  I can use multiple half sphere bumpers in a row to give me an idea of what that concept will feel like.  Once I do that, I will make a decision about making some...

I can source very high quality double sided tape easily as I have a company which works in that industry. 

We will see what I end up with once I get my boards and get prototyping. 

Offline mkawa

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 07 February 2014, 13:40:45 »
i would be quite interested to see how polyurethane die springs work as bumpons :D

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Offline tjweir

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 18:13:19 »
Swill, what's the latest?
My butterfly keypad arrived sans case, so I need to build one.

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 18:56:41 »
Swill, what's the latest?
My butterfly keypad arrived sans case, so I need to build one.

I am waiting for my first of 5 pcbs headed my direction. Once I get the first one I will add a lot more details including images etc.

Offline tjweir

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 04:43:20 »
I am waiting for my first of 5 pcbs headed my direction. Once I get the first one I will add a lot more details including images etc.

Lovely!  Let me know if I can help.
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 February 2014, 07:48:13 by tjweir »

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 15:56:58 »
Now that I have received some PCBs, I will soon be prototyping this case and adding pictures to this thread.

Stay tuned...  :)

Offline esko997

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 16:00:48 »
Site looks great swill -- very excited to see where this goes. Good luck!
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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:45:12 »
Site looks great swill -- very excited to see where this goes. Good luck!

Thanks...  I have a couple additional ideas I am going to try as well.  I am getting some brass standoffs as well which I am going to try in place of the silicon to see how that feels as well.  The nice thing is that I will be able to easily switch between the standoff solution and the silicon solution without any changes to the back plate.  Its going to be fun to test all the different setups...

Offline qwack

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:13:43 »
Very nice thread. I was thinking of making a minimal "case" for my Pure Pro or rather, bolt its PCB to a simple 2mm aluminium plate with rubber feet underneath and a silicon pad under the PCB as an insulator, to get a super low profile keyboard. I'm looking forward to seeing what you'll come up with!

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 16 June 2014, 22:58:42 »
Updated the OP with this prototype.  I will post the pictures here too.

Acrylic back plate, brass threaded inserts, brass male/female standoffs.  I will do a silicon pad instead of the standoffs soon, but I will start with this for now.  I will also be adding feet at some point soon as well.






Offline Doesntknowwhattosay

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:26:53 »
Updated the OP with this prototype.  I will post the pictures here too.

Acrylic back plate, brass threaded inserts, brass male/female standoffs.  I will do a silicon pad instead of the standoffs soon, but I will start with this for now.  I will also be adding feet at some point soon as well.

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


Are the standoffs screwed into the case or did you glue them?

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:40:53 »
Updated the OP with this prototype.  I will post the pictures here too.

Acrylic back plate, brass threaded inserts, brass male/female standoffs.  I will do a silicon pad instead of the standoffs soon, but I will start with this for now.  I will also be adding feet at some point soon as well.

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image

I really like that barebones look!
Very busy with studies atm.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #88 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:54:50 »
Updated the OP with this prototype.  I will post the pictures here too.

Acrylic back plate, brass threaded inserts, brass male/female standoffs.  I will do a silicon pad instead of the standoffs soon, but I will start with this for now.  I will also be adding feet at some point soon as well.

Show Image


Show Image


Show Image


Are the standoffs screwed into the case or did you glue them?

I drilled holes and screwed in brass threaded inserts into acrylic.  Then I screwed brass male/female standoffs into those threaded inserts.  At some point soon I will remove the standoffs and do a silicon pad and just screw directly to the acrylic plate using the threaded inserts. 

In the second picture, you can see one of the male/female brass standoffs loose in the top left hand side.  That is what is screwed into the brass threaded inserts which are installed in the acrylic sheet...
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:58:32 by swill »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 23:58:56 »
Tonight I tapped an M2 hole in acrylic to see how the threads would hold up.  I was able to tighten the screw enough to strip it completely and the threads did not budge.  After removing the screw (from the other side with pliers), I was able to use a new screw in the hole as if nothing had happened. 

I have to admit, I was not expecting this to hold up nearly as well as it has.  I was fully expecting to have this fail dramatically.  This is a really promising result because it simplifies the acrylic version of this case dramatically.  The threaded inserts were a total PITA, so if I don't have to use them, that is awesome.  The threaded inserts were hard to find (in M2) and they were not cheap, so that is a huge bonus.

The tap was $7 on ebay (I already had a handle that works), so that is a pretty good investment.  This is how I planned to do Aluminum and Steel anyway, so its nice that I can just use the same process...

Now I need to see how thin I can go with the acrylic before the threads become a problem.  I don't think it is realistic to do the acrylic less than 1/8" anyway, so I actually expect this to work pretty well.  This test was with 5mm acrylic (just over 3/16"). 

Here is a pic...
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 June 2014, 00:07:49 by swill »

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #90 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 02:52:47 »
Tonight I tapped an M2 hole in acrylic to see how the threads would hold up.  I was able to tighten the screw enough to strip it completely and the threads did not budge.  After removing the screw (from the other side with pliers), I was able to use a new screw in the hole as if nothing had happened. 

I have to admit, I was not expecting this to hold up nearly as well as it has.  I was fully expecting to have this fail dramatically.  This is a really promising result because it simplifies the acrylic version of this case dramatically.  The threaded inserts were a total PITA, so if I don't have to use them, that is awesome.  The threaded inserts were hard to find (in M2) and they were not cheap, so that is a huge bonus.

The tap was $7 on ebay (I already had a handle that works), so that is a pretty good investment.  This is how I planned to do Aluminum and Steel anyway, so its nice that I can just use the same process...

Now I need to see how thin I can go with the acrylic before the threads become a problem.  I don't think it is realistic to do the acrylic less than 1/8" anyway, so I actually expect this to work pretty well.  This test was with 5mm acrylic (just over 3/16"). 

Here is a pic...
Show Image


The minimum thickness I would recommend would be about 3mm or 1.5x fastener diameter for tapping into acrylic.  For threads in steel you don't gain any extra pull out strength once you get over 1x the diameter in length of the threaded hole.  So the 1.5x just includes a bit of a safety factor.  Though if I remember that was with drilling the hole for a 75% thread depth.  There is almost 0 gain in pull out strength going over 75% thread depth though there can be some benefits depending on application.  I would also limit acres removal and insertion in strength critical areas with acrylic threads.

For what its worth in an old project from an old hobby, I had to tap a hole that was an inch deep.  Material was 1/16" aluminum (and countersunk) on both sides of a piect of 7/8" of hard maple.  I threaded this with 6-32 and I stripped the hex head before the threads let go.  And the screws only went half away through.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #91 on: Sat, 21 June 2014, 06:31:55 »
Tonight I tapped an M2 hole in acrylic to see how the threads would hold up.  I was able to tighten the screw enough to strip it completely and the threads did not budge.  After removing the screw (from the other side with pliers), I was able to use a new screw in the hole as if nothing had happened. 

I have to admit, I was not expecting this to hold up nearly as well as it has.  I was fully expecting to have this fail dramatically.  This is a really promising result because it simplifies the acrylic version of this case dramatically.  The threaded inserts were a total PITA, so if I don't have to use them, that is awesome.  The threaded inserts were hard to find (in M2) and they were not cheap, so that is a huge bonus.

The tap was $7 on ebay (I already had a handle that works), so that is a pretty good investment.  This is how I planned to do Aluminum and Steel anyway, so its nice that I can just use the same process...

Now I need to see how thin I can go with the acrylic before the threads become a problem.  I don't think it is realistic to do the acrylic less than 1/8" anyway, so I actually expect this to work pretty well.  This test was with 5mm acrylic (just over 3/16"). 

Here is a pic...
Show Image


The minimum thickness I would recommend would be about 3mm or 1.5x fastener diameter for tapping into acrylic.  For threads in steel you don't gain any extra pull out strength once you get over 1x the diameter in length of the threaded hole.  So the 1.5x just includes a bit of a safety factor.  Though if I remember that was with drilling the hole for a 75% thread depth.  There is almost 0 gain in pull out strength going over 75% thread depth though there can be some benefits depending on application.  I would also limit acres removal and insertion in strength critical areas with acrylic threads.

For what its worth in an old project from an old hobby, I had to tap a hole that was an inch deep.  Material was 1/16" aluminum (and countersunk) on both sides of a piect of 7/8" of hard maple.  I threaded this with 6-32 and I stripped the hex head before the threads let go.  And the screws only went half away through.

Great. Thanks for the info. After my test, that is pretty close to what my instincts were saying, so it's nice to get some reassurance from people who know what they are talking about. Thx. :)

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 01 July 2014, 00:38:46 »
I need to do a bit of an update in this thread when I have a chance to take some pictures.  I have done the silicon sheet version as well as the standoff version and I have also added bumpers to make it really solid on the desk.  I will take some pictures and update this thread when I have some time.

I have to say that I am really happy with this case so far.  It is super solid and so smooth.  I almost feels like typing on Topre.   :eek:

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 13 July 2014, 22:14:22 »
Finally added a few more prototype shots.  I need to do some more tests with the solid core silicone sheets to see how that feels.

Offline paicrai

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 14 July 2014, 03:36:01 »
whoa, this would go well with the square caps! gj dude
THE FEMINIST ILLUMINATI

I will literally **** you raw paicrai, I hope you're legal by the time I meet you.
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Offline cmadrid

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 12:06:16 »
This looks awesome! 

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 12:10:15 »
This looks awesome!

I have a whole bunch of new pictures I need to upload when I have a chance...

Offline cmadrid

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 12:14:22 »
I look forward to the pictures.. and being able to buy some of these perhaps!  It would be nice to be able to pick up a nice minimalist 'case' that doesn't cost more than my keyboards! 

Offline swill

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 13:48:37 »
I look forward to the pictures.. and being able to buy some of these perhaps!  It would be nice to be able to pick up a nice minimalist 'case' that doesn't cost more than my keyboards!

Better yet, you could make your own for 10$ of materials at your local hardware store.   :eek:

Well, assuming you have a 2 or 3mm tap to tap the holes. 

Offline cmadrid

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Re: swill's minimal case design
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 14:01:14 »
Make something.. myself??   :eek:






I imagine it would go something like this!

« Last Edit: Fri, 01 August 2014, 14:03:45 by cmadrid »