Filco with clears....DONE!

[shawn o]

First attempt at soldering anything with a PCB involved. Bought a Hakko FX-888 soldering iron and 808 desoldering gun. Always wanted a proper soldering iron.

Read some soldering guides online and at eevblog and it turned out to be much easier than I thought. Lead free solder Filco used was a bit of a PITA to desolder. Had to have the iron at almost 750 degrees to get it to melt.

Only time consuming part was opening up every switch to remove the unnecessary diodes (got switches from donor G80-8113).

Did it over a few nights. First one switch to ensure it would work....then 5....etc.....and tonight about 30 or so to finish it off!

Used a grey for the spacebar. Not sure if I'll keep it.

Swapped out the red LEDs for blue ones also (was a black Majestouch with red LEDs).

[Reptile]

Nice! I wish I had the skills to do this. Also did you go with regular clears or ergo-clears?

[shawn o]

Straight up clears! Wanted to try them and compare to my Filco with browns. I seem to easily bottom out with the brown switches and thought clears might be the ticket for me. Just waiting on some sweet keycaps to try it out.

[absyrd]

Nice work!

[mkawa]

nice! very clean work. how do you like the 888? i'm probably going to get a real station later this year...

[Autolyze]

Looking good! I feel like clears are a bit underappreciated. They're fantastic for typing on without bottoming out.

[Nighted]

I have a Weller WESD51 station. Would like the desoldering station as well but don't want to spend over $500!

How do you like the Hakko desoldering gun?

[mkawa]

also looking at the wesd51. worth it over the ayoues of the world?

[Nighted]

I think a bic lighter would be better than an Ayoue! Weller is really good. I have looked at Hakko before and they make pretty nice stuff.

[smknjoe]

also looking at the wesd51. worth it over the ayoues of the world?

I have a model similar to that I got a few years back and it's been very reliable. Much better than a straight up iron (you need to be able to control temp.) I got my display model for about $100.

Great job shawn! Very clean.

[shawn o]

I looked at Weller and Hakko and it seems Weller is getting a bad reputation now since Cooper purchased them. Hakko has better customer service and a better tip selection.

[1839cc]

Looks very good! Post your thoughts when you get to type on it.

If you don't like the gray switch under the spacebar, try it under escape instead.

[Awful]

Fantastic job. I wish I had the testicular fortitude to do a Filco solder job.

[ty_moon]

Fantastic job. I wish I had the testicular fortitude to do a Filco solder job.

Is it difficult to (de)solder a switch from a Filco?

[iodine131]

Nice one! What's your typing feeling now?

[Awful]

Is it difficult to (de)solder a switch from a Filco?

It is if you're scared to ruin your $160 keyboard(s)

[harrison]

Is it difficult to (de)solder a switch from a Filco?

if you've got a half decent iron (temp-controlled) and some wick or a solder sucker, there are only 2 possible risks... overheating the PBC and wrecking the trace, and melting the bottom of the switch housing.  both of these occur from using too much heat, or heating too long.  with a good iron (or a desolder gun/station) both of these risks go down considerably.

being a 1-sided PCB makes it MUCH easier.  i did 1 double-sided PCB, and it's much more difficult.  i don't have a desoldering station, and found wick to work much better than a solder sucker.  i was able to de-solder a full board of 1-sided PCB mounted switches in just under 2 hours.  I had a full board done in just under an hour.  the 2-sided PCB with plate mount switches took more than twice as long, and I ended up with 3 wrecked switch housings.

[alaricljs]

Not quite sure I followed what you're asking, let me know if I got it wrong... If you're modding a plate mount board and want standard switches then it's fastest to replace w/ plate mount switches.  If you're going for non-standard switches you have to open them all up anyhow so PCB vs plate won't really matter.

[keyboardlover]

Nice job OP. Might want to put this in the Mods subforum

[1839cc]

I don't see anything however for Cherry MX Gray Tactile...  I see the Linear variant MX1A-21NW but nothing for Tactile; did this get discontinued?

All you need from it is the spring. The stem is identical to the clear one.

[alaricljs]

That's the right number for Clears, that Linear number looks like PCB mount.  I haven't seen any US source w/ grays.  There was a GB thread where someone mentioned a place that had them.  Let me see if I can't find it.

[keebler64]

nice! very clean work. how do you like the 888? i'm probably going to get a real station later this year...

I've got the 888 and love it. No need for digital readout, it's very accurate and heats up very quickly! And the Irons fit onto my 1987 Ungar Dual Output Station too!

[lorem3k]

if you've got a half decent iron (temp-controlled) and some wick or a solder sucker, there are only 2 possible risks... overheating the PBC and wrecking the trace, and melting the bottom of the switch housing.  both of these occur from using too much heat, or heating too long.  with a good iron (or a desolder gun/station) both of these risks go down considerably.

Wrecking the trace isn't really a big deal, if it happens you can just solder a thin wire from the lead on the switch to a part of the trace that's still intact. Not pretty, but it works.

[o2dazone]

Clean. Yeah clears are STIFF, they definitely deserve to be on a plate mount.

[1839cc]

That's the right number for Clears, that Linear number looks like PCB mount.  I haven't seen any US source w/ grays.  There was a GB thread where someone mentioned a place that had them.  Let me see if I can't find it.

I know the G80-8113 (clear) and G80-11800 both have a tactile gray spacebar switch.

[shawn o]

Played some  BF3 tonight and the clears are STIFF. Wow, my pinky is killing me. I think I'm going to  switch the tab/shift/control keys to brown and see how that goes.

[Lanx]

imo you should change some unused keys to browns i.e. "=" or "-" this way you have a nice contrast and remember why you choose whites.

[1839cc]

Give it some time. Toughen up those pinkies.

[shawn o]

[smknjoe]

Where did you get the clears and how much were they (if you don't mind me asking?)

[shawn o]

Bought a G80-8113 in ebay and used it for a "donor" board.

After using it for a few days I'm adjusted to it and loving it!

[smknjoe]

I'm considering doing the same on one of my boards. You may have already posted it, but are they straight clears or did you use other springs?

Again, nice clean job. The lead free solder is a PITA for sure!

Edit: NEVRMIND - I see where you said straight.

[1839cc]

Bought a G80-8113 in ebay and used it for a "donor" board.

After using it for a few days I'm adjusted to it and loving it!

Ha! Just like I told you.:bounce:

[shawn o]

I finally opened the keyboard back up. Had to remove the grey switch on the spacebar as I was finding myself strugging typing with that stiffer switch and hitting it hard enough to get the switch to register sometimes andendingupwithstringslikethis....

Anways, keyboard is fully clear and loving it!

[smknjoe]

Did you transplant the entire original switch from the donor board, or just the top part and the spring. I have the same donor board and am surprised at the tactility of the clears. They feel just like browns with a heavier spring. 1839cc suggested that the gold contact springs could be slightly worn out.

[shawn o]

I swapped the whole thing out. Should be a bit heavier than the browns and only slightly more tactile. My donor board was brand new. I'm sure the stem of the switch does wear down a bit over time making it less tactile and thus more like browns.

[naranja]

hi, i wanted to ask how necessary the desoldering gun was(I only have the 888). I plan on doing a similar project but with a future WASD board, do those have lead-free solder on them as well? Thanks.

[smknjoe]

A good desoldering gun is nice, but not necessary. Copper solder wicks work well, are cheap, and can be found easily. Anything that is ROHS (most consumer electronics) probably uses lead free solder. Practice on something else to find a technique that you are comfortable with.

[naranja]

Thanks smknjoe! I plan on practicing on my current g80-8113. I think I've seen somewhere that the solder on that is different from a filcos/etc but I can't locate it anymore. Any chance you(or anyone else) know more about that. Thanks(& sorry for all the questions  hah)

[shawn o]

Lead free solder just has a higher melting point making it more difficult for some to de-solder with poor quality soldering irons.

Get something like the Edsyn DS-017 and you be golden!

I wouldn't use solder braid on a PCB as you usually have to apply more heat to use it.

[smknjoe]

I can't remember exactly when ROHS went into effect. Somewhere between 2004-2006? Anything before ROHS probably has lead solder.

[naranja]

Lead free solder just has a higher melting point making it more difficult for some to de-solder with poor quality soldering irons.

Get something like the Edsyn DS-017 and you be golden!

I wouldn't use solder braid on a PCB as you usually have to apply more heat to use it.

That makes sense. I'll be practicing on my donor g80 for a while before i commit to a larger mod. Thanks a lot.

[smknjoe]

I wouldn't use solder braid on a PCB as you usually have to apply more heat to use it.

I've haven't melted any boards yet, but on larger projects like a full size keyboard a good desoldering gun is ideal.

[naranja]

I've haven't melted any boards yet, but on larger projects like a full size keyboard a good desoldering gun is ideal.

The price of a desoldering gun is scaring me so if I could get away with using a soldersucker I'd prefer so.

Also shawn o, I wanted to ask if you remember the temperatures you used to solder/desolder between your g80 and filco.

[shawn o]

600F for G80. 700-750F for Filco.

[alaricljs]

Also note a fun difference with no-lead solder:  it is not eutectic.  This means that the transition between liquid and solid is not a single specific temperature.  Lead-free solder has a ~20°F range where it transitions to liquid, so if you don't get it past those 20° then you're not going to get all the solder up and wick won't work right.

[mkawa]

fyi because of euro laws, _everything_ uses no-lead solder since ca. 2001-ish