[GB] Alps Party 60% - Hannibal at the Gates

[BlueNalgene]

Mine arrived safely today. I appreciate the packing effort 

But, seriously blue, what am I meant to do with one stab insert? 

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lol

Not complaining, you are my Alps hero!

that's an alps-mx converter, friend! put it in an alps switch and then attach your favorite mx artisan key

Well well well! Seems I missed out on the details of this little extra - can't wait to test that out, cheers Blue!

Just be careful when using these as the shapeways stuff isn't that precise

I cracked an MX stem on an SA key but trying to jam it in

AAAAAH OH NO!  I fail.

[swimmingbird]

Mine arrived safely today. I appreciate the packing effort 

But, seriously blue, what am I meant to do with one stab insert? 

Show Image

lol

Not complaining, you are my Alps hero!

that's an alps-mx converter, friend! put it in an alps switch and then attach your favorite mx artisan key

Well well well! Seems I missed out on the details of this little extra - can't wait to test that out, cheers Blue!

Just be careful when using these as the shapeways stuff isn't that precise

I cracked an MX stem on an SA key but trying to jam it in

AAAAAH OH NO!  I fail.

Oh the cap still works fine - just a hairline fracture on the stem!  :D

Thanks for including it! It would be great if someone like JTK could start making them seeing as they are already doing mx to topre sliders

[tjcaustin]

I might be blind and missing it, but is there any known issues with the pcb having key chatter?  (That's what double/triple/etc presses are called, right?)  I've reflowed everything a few times, but I get a handful of keys that like activating a few times per press.

[BlueNalgene]

Oh the cap still works fine - just a hairline fracture on the stem! 

Thanks for including it! It would be great if someone like JTK could start making them seeing as they are already doing mx to topre sliders

There has been some work by the Deskthority folks making an injection molded version.  They went through several iterations of 3D printed versions as well.  I saw this design while researching the idea for my converter independently.  I took the idea of the curvature on the cherry end from this.  The hole in the Alps end on mine would probably make them cheaper to produce.  Hopefully they make some progress on this, because I think people would really like to use these.  If they did this, there would be a lot more control over the size specifications of the part, and they wouldn't need a bit of knife work before use like mine do.

[rand77]

Just started assembling and ran into a bit of trouble when testing the diodes (before installing switches).    hopefully someone can help me fix it, I bet its something really minor screwing everything up.

The following keys are not testing correctly: K35 (~), K34 (tab), K33 (A), K37 (1), K64 (Y), K74 (J), K75 (I), K76 ( 8 ), K77 (9). 

I have attached some pictures of EK switch hitter and my soldering job.   A couple things that may be important:

** All diodes are showing a voltage drop of ~0.7 , including the keys that are not working
** I have attempted to replace the diodes for K74 (J), K75 (I), K76 ( 8 ), K77 (9) with fresh diodes.  I did a poor soldering job in the pictures because I ran out of wick, but the voltage drop tests fine.

[BlueNalgene]

Just started assembling and ran into a bit of trouble when testing the diodes (before installing switches).    hopefully someone can help me fix it, I bet its something really minor screwing everything up.

The following keys are not testing correctly: K35 (~), K34 (tab), K33 (A), K37 (1), K64 (Y), K74 (J), K75 (I), K76 ( 8 ), K77 (9). 

I have attached some pictures of EK switch hitter and my soldering job.   A couple things that may be important:

** All diodes are showing a voltage drop of ~0.7 , including the keys that are not working
** I have attempted to replace the diodes for K74 (J), K75 (I), K76 ( 8 ), K77 (9) with fresh diodes.  I did a poor soldering job in the pictures because I ran out of wick, but the voltage drop tests fine.

Those are two columns that aren't working right.  The matrix designation that hasu uses has the form K(a)(b) where (a) is the matrix column and (b) is the matrix row.  I had a similar problem with a column like that.  I found it was fixed by 'magic' after I just unsoldered and resoldered the switches.  You might have two bad connections.  One on each column.

[flabbergast]

I might be blind and missing it, but is there any known issues with the pcb having key chatter?  (That's what double/triple/etc presses are called, right?)  I've reflowed everything a few times, but I get a handful of keys that like activating a few times per press.

This is way more likely to be a switch problem than a PCB problem. You can also adjust the debounce time in TMK, in the file config.h, #define DEBOUNCE. It's normally 5; if you increase this then the firmware will wait more for the keys to settle.

[njbair]

I might be blind and missing it, but is there any known issues with the pcb having key chatter?  (That's what double/triple/etc presses are called, right?)  I've reflowed everything a few times, but I get a handful of keys that like activating a few times per press.

This is way more likely to be a switch problem than a PCB problem. You can also adjust the debounce time in TMK, in the file config.h, #define DEBOUNCE. It's normally 5; if you increase this then the firmware will wait more for the keys to settle.

I've found one key on my HHKB build that is chattering. I'm going to try desoldering and replacing that switch, since it's just that one. Hopefully that will fix it.

[digi]

notched out either side of the little plastic stab inserts and now the 2.75x matias stab wire fits fine

[tofgerl]

How do I install the stabs? I'm sure there's a guide in this thread somewhere, but it's a REALLY long thread...

[deductivemonkee]

How do I install the stabs? I'm sure there's a guide in this thread somewhere, but it's a REALLY long thread...

Put the bottom side of the stab into the plate (from top of plate) then use a screwdriver to jam the top side in, then push down and you'll hear a click. Then put the wire in. I'm sure you know how to install keycaps

[tofgerl]

Right, but there are several different pieces, and how do I know what is the top?

[deductivemonkee]

Right, but there are several different pieces, and how do I know what is the top?

The L shaped pieces are stab inserts for bottom of spacebar. The funky little ones are the ones that clip into the plate. The side with the groove is the top side, and the groove is where the stab wire goes. The groove is the lower side of the top and should be at the bottom.

[tofgerl]

Yep, think I got it.. Still fiddling...

[tofgerl]

Yep, got it, but my 1 key is broken due to a soldering error... That's make for some interesting programming.
for(int i = 0;i>(8+2);i=i+(2/2))

[tofgerl]

OK, new problem. TMK this time. KEYMAP() requires 64 arguments, but I've got 61 keys on the board. I tried inserting three TRNS at the end, but that didn't work, it just screwed up my map and made Backspace into Tab...

[njbair]

OK, new problem. TMK this time. KEYMAP() requires 64 arguments, but I've got 61 keys on the board. I tried inserting three TRNS at the end, but that didn't work, it just screwed up my map and made Backspace into Tab...

61 keys, sounds like you're doing an HHKB layout. Do yourself a favor and use my customized keymap_common.h, which includes a KEYMAP_HHKB() macro which only requires 61 arguments: https://github.com/njbair/tmk_keyboard/blob/njbair/keyboard/alps64/keymap_common.h

[nathanrosspowell]

OK, new problem. TMK this time. KEYMAP() requires 64 arguments, but I've got 61 keys on the board. I tried inserting three TRNS at the end, but that didn't work, it just screwed up my map and made Backspace into Tab...

The extras need to go in the gaps in the matrix layout. It's different for each PCBs.

If you look at this macro for the planck, you can see where the KC_NO is added for the double sized (2u) space bar which makes a 'gap' in the matrix.

I suggest making a new KEYMAP macro to have the exact amount of inputs that you want (61) and putting in the KC_NO where the gaps are - in the end it's just a wrapper on a 2D array that matches the MATRIX_ROWS X MATRIX_COLS values for your keyboard 

EDIT: do what njbair says 

[tofgerl]

Nah, it's an AT101W plate, so standard Poker. But I'll try.

However, that doesn't explain why backspace thinks it's a tab-key, tab thinks it's an A and so on down the line...

[njbair]

Nah, it's an AT101W plate, so standard Poker. But I'll try.

However, that doesn't explain why backspace thinks it's a tab-key, tab thinks it's an A and so on down the line...

For AT101W, the extra keys are as follows:

Key #14 on Row 1, which is meant for Infinity/HHKB layouts. You want to set this to NO and set key #15 to BSPC.
Key #2 on Row 4, which is the ISO backslash position. Set this to NO and move on to Z,X,C,V or whatever comes next.
Key #14 on Row 4, which is the Fn key for Infinity/HHKB layouts. Set this to NO and move on to the next line.

You can do all this right in your keymap, or make a new KEYMAP_ANSI() macro if you are feeling adventurous. If I get bored here I might just do that for you.

EDIT: See if this works: https://github.com/njbair/tmk_keyboard/blob/njbair/keyboard/alps64/keymap_common.h

[tofgerl]

Thanks, that fixed a lot!

Turns out backspace, like 1, doesn't trigger. My macros and layers don't work either, but that's secondary.

[nickheller]

Just got done soldering the quiet clicks in my infinity, now all I need is Alpine Winter (and I need to put stabs in). This is going to be one of my favorite boards, thanks for running this Blue!

[Badwrench]

For those of you using the matias/alps stab wires and clips with any of the SP sets (my modifier pack or Alpine winter), here are the specs for the right shift wire.  These were the specs I used for mounting my set on a V60. 

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70817.msg1917032#msg1917032

I hope this helps some of you.

[digi]

For those of you using the matias/alps stab wires and clips with any of the SP sets (my modifier pack or Alpine winter), here are the specs for the right shift wire.  These were the specs I used for mounting my set on a V60. 

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70817.msg1917032#msg1917032

I hope this helps some of you.

Thanks Badwrencher!

[henz]

If a 7u wire is what you need I have one, you can have it. Let me know.

How does the 7u wire look?  Does it wrap back around from the outside?  This one seems to go into the stablizer inserts from the inside.

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I have one of these as well , how did you get your spacebar stabilized?

[ika]

notched out either side of the little plastic stab inserts and now the 2.75x matias stab wire fits fine

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Thanks digi, this worked for me! Instead of using an Xacto knife and potentially losing my precious fingers with which I use to type, I used my flush cutters instead, and they sliced through the soft plastic clips just fine. Got everything soldered and installed within an hour or two! Featuring Taihao Dolch, Matias quiet click, cheap plastic case from aliexpress, and some bonus alps caps from bcredbottle!





http://imgur.com/a/L2ZhQ

[digi]

notched out either side of the little plastic stab inserts and now the 2.75x matias stab wire fits fine

Show Image

Thanks digi, this worked for me! Instead of using an Xacto knife and potentially losing my precious fingers with which I use to type, I used my flush cutters instead, and they sliced through the soft plastic clips just fine. Got everything soldered and installed within an hour or two! Featuring Taihao Dolch, cheap plastic case from aliexpress, and some bonus alps caps from bcredbottle!

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http://imgur.com/a/L2ZhQ

Cool man! Glad you got it working, nice build

[deductivemonkee]

What size of solder should I be using? Leaded or unleaded?

[geniekid]

What size of solder should I be using? Leaded or unleaded?

Either one will work.  Lead-free requires higher temperature to work with.  I guess you have to be a little more careful not to lift the pads but I can't imagine it's that much more of a risk.  See this for more info.

[njbair]

What size of solder should I be using? Leaded or unleaded?

Leaded is easier to work with. The only reason not to use leaded solder is the environmental concern, which is negligible for hobbyists. I like 0.06" for keyboard work. Any smaller is too flimsy and takes too long to flow into the larger solder points.

Here's what I'm using lately: Alpha Fry AT-31604 60-40 Rosin Core Solder (4 Ounces) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00030AP48/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_IUfLwb72QEE39

[deductivemonkee]

What size of solder should I be using? Leaded or unleaded?

Either one will work.  Lead-free requires higher temperature to work with.  I guess you have to be a little more careful not to lift the pads but I can't imagine it's that much more of a risk.  See this for more info.

Edit: thanks njbair, I'll grab something like that.

[ika]

What size of solder should I be using? Leaded or unleaded?

Leaded is easier to work with. The only reason not to use leaded solder is the environmental concern, which is negligible for hobbyists. I like 0.06" for keyboard work. Any smaller is too flimsy and takes too long to flow into the larger solder points.

Here's what I'm using lately: Alpha Fry AT-31604 60-40 Rosin Core Solder (4 Ounces) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00030AP48/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_IUfLwb72QEE39

0.06"? I'm using 0.031" and I was considering getting a smaller diameter to work with SMD controllers. I would hate to go any thicker for SMD work. YMMV.

[njbair]

What size of solder should I be using? Leaded or unleaded?

Leaded is easier to work with. The only reason not to use leaded solder is the environmental concern, which is negligible for hobbyists. I like 0.06" for keyboard work. Any smaller is too flimsy and takes too long to flow into the larger solder points.

Here's what I'm using lately: Alpha Fry AT-31604 60-40 Rosin Core Solder (4 Ounces) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00030AP48/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_IUfLwb72QEE39

0.06"? I'm using 0.031" and I was considering getting a smaller diameter to work with SMD controllers. I would hate to go any thicker for SMD work. YMMV.

For SMD, sure you want smaller. But you'll be there all day trying to solder key switches with .032".

[digi]

Kester 44 .031 is all you need, no problem with smd diodes, resistors and switches. Check out the Soldering Thread on here..

[Pikly]

Took me a while to get to building, but it was worth the wait!

I used white ALPS from a DATADESK MAC 101E keyboard, with keycaps from an AEK II until Alpine Winter comes. Case is a Lambo 60% by iQunix obtained from Massdrop. Programming was a breeze with the online tool, much easier than messing with the TMK in my linux virtual machine (though satisfying to compile your own firmware using TMK, it is a bit of a hassle).

The only thing I'm not completely satisfied with is the space bar sound, it makes quite a racket. I ended up using some adhesive pads for sticking things to walls to try and dampen the downstroke; it's much better now, but I think the space bar is still rubbing a little on the case. Once Alpine Winter comes I'll look into it more, possibly flipping the space bar could help.





Some more pictures here of the build process if anyone's interested: http://imgur.com/a/MC54R

[nathanrosspowell]

Took me a while to get to building, but it was worth the wait!

I used white ALPS from a DATADESK MAC 101E keyboard, with keycaps from an AEK II until Alpine Winter comes. Case is a Lambo 60% by iQunix obtained from Massdrop. Programming was a breeze with the online tool, much easier than messing with the TMK in my linux virtual machine (though satisfying to compile your own firmware using TMK, it is a bit of a hassle).

The only thing I'm not completely satisfied with is the space bar sound, it makes quite a racket. I ended up using some adhesive pads for sticking things to walls to try and dampen the downstroke; it's much better now, but I think the space bar is still rubbing a little on the case. Once Alpine Winter comes I'll look into it more, possibly flipping the space bar could help.

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Some more pictures here of the build process if anyone's interested: http://imgur.com/a/MC54R

I think it looks pretty awesome with the Apple caps, but Alpine Winter will look even better 

[deductivemonkee]

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

[sean]

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

[deductivemonkee]

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

You can't easily get leaded solder in Canada :/ I got a nice iron on loan from a friend as well. also, my 0.05 solder is 97/3.....

[cheddarbek]

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

High five! My first solder job was an Alps64 too! My lust for a smaller version of the AEKII I found at work was the catalyst for getting me into this hobby, actually.

No ragrets!

[henz]

anyone who has a spare 7u stab wire over?

[n__dles]

I'm pretty sure I've got a contender for ugliest kb of the litter!



I went with the shiny, sunfaded alphas because they're thicker than the Tai Haos. Even though I prefer ziptyze's case, green didn't fit with the creamy, olivetti, badwrench-y color scheme. Poker II case for now.

I managed to fractured a few of the stabilizer inserts in the caps putting in the Matias stab hangers (sorry about the terminology). Anyone else have trouble with them?

[geniekid]

I'm pretty sure I've got a contender for ugliest kb of the litter!

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I went with the shiny, sunfaded alphas because they're thicker than the Tai Haos. Even though I prefer ziptyze's case, green didn't fit with the creamy, olivetti, badwrench-y color scheme. Poker II case for now.

I managed to fractured a few of the stabilizer inserts in the caps putting in the Matias stab hangers (sorry about the terminology). Anyone else have trouble with them?

Lol!  I love this keyboard.  It's such a hobbyist's keyboard

[VinnyCordeiro]

The package finally arrived from the shipping forwarder company. The plate have some sharp burrs (is that the correct word?) that will need to be filed down, but everything looks fine.

And I got an elephant.

Pics only on Saturday, when I will have time to solder the PCB.

[BlueNalgene]

The package finally arrived from the shipping forwarder company. The plate have some sharp burrs (is that the correct word?) that will need to be filed down, but everything looks fine.

And I got an elephant.

Pics only on Saturday, when I will have time to solder the PCB.

Yes burr is the correct word.  I'm glad everything made it to you ok, you elephant winning lucky dog you.

[phosphoric]

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

High five! My first solder job was an Alps64 too! My lust for a smaller version of the AEKII I found at work was the catalyst for getting me into this hobby, actually.

No ragrets!

oh yeah, i was definitely surprised at how easy it was to solder - spent a couple weeks researching techniques and reading up on various keyboard soldering guides, only to find out that it was so much easier than expected. desoldering, on the other hand, is such a humongous pain in the ass, but it may just be because i'm using a $5 desoldering pump my friend bought from radioshack. is there any way to get solder out of a pth with desoldering braid?

[BlueNalgene]

More

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

High five! My first solder job was an Alps64 too! My lust for a smaller version of the AEKII I found at work was the catalyst for getting me into this hobby, actually.

No ragrets!

oh yeah, i was definitely surprised at how easy it was to solder - spent a couple weeks researching techniques and reading up on various keyboard soldering guides, only to find out that it was so much easier than expected. desoldering, on the other hand, is such a humongous pain in the ass, but it may just be because i'm using a $5 desoldering pump my friend bought from radioshack.

is there any way to get solder out of a pth with desoldering braid?

What I would recommend with through-hole soldered connection is to use both the pump and braid.  First, tin your soldering iron with some fresh solder (leaded if possible).  Apply heat and suck out the solder in the hole.  This should get most of it.  Then you move on to the braid.  For this step, tin your iron again, and then wipe it.  You want to have flux on the tip so that everything heats well.  Place the braid over the hole and apply the tip to the area of interest.  Don't 'poke' the tip into the hole to get the solder out.  What you want is to apply even heat from the side of the iron, and allow the flux to heat everything and draw it towards the iron.

[phosphoric]

More

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

High five! My first solder job was an Alps64 too! My lust for a smaller version of the AEKII I found at work was the catalyst for getting me into this hobby, actually.

No ragrets!

oh yeah, i was definitely surprised at how easy it was to solder - spent a couple weeks researching techniques and reading up on various keyboard soldering guides, only to find out that it was so much easier than expected. desoldering, on the other hand, is such a humongous pain in the ass, but it may just be because i'm using a $5 desoldering pump my friend bought from radioshack.

is there any way to get solder out of a pth with desoldering braid?

What I would recommend with through-hole soldered connection is to use both the pump and braid.  First, tin your soldering iron with some fresh solder (leaded if possible).  Apply heat and suck out the solder in the hole.  This should get most of it.  Then you move on to the braid.  For this step, tin your iron again, and then wipe it.  You want to have flux on the tip so that everything heats well.  Place the braid over the hole and apply the tip to the area of interest.  Don't 'poke' the tip into the hole to get the solder out.  What you want is to apply even heat from the side of the iron, and allow the flux to heat everything and draw it towards the iron.

i have some rosin flux - could i coat my soldering iron with that and then do the method you described? does the attractive properties of the flux work well enough to defy the solder's pull towards gravity? thanks for the tip.  )

[BlueNalgene]

More

I got some 0.05 and some 0.032 solder from a friend. Hope it works

The first ever thing I soldered was an Alps64 with a $15 soldering iron so don't sweat it too much. As it turns out soldering is really easy. (just make sure you have good ventilation if you are using leaded solder.

High five! My first solder job was an Alps64 too! My lust for a smaller version of the AEKII I found at work was the catalyst for getting me into this hobby, actually.

No ragrets!

oh yeah, i was definitely surprised at how easy it was to solder - spent a couple weeks researching techniques and reading up on various keyboard soldering guides, only to find out that it was so much easier than expected. desoldering, on the other hand, is such a humongous pain in the ass, but it may just be because i'm using a $5 desoldering pump my friend bought from radioshack.

is there any way to get solder out of a pth with desoldering braid?

What I would recommend with through-hole soldered connection is to use both the pump and braid.  First, tin your soldering iron with some fresh solder (leaded if possible).  Apply heat and suck out the solder in the hole.  This should get most of it.  Then you move on to the braid.  For this step, tin your iron again, and then wipe it.  You want to have flux on the tip so that everything heats well.  Place the braid over the hole and apply the tip to the area of interest.  Don't 'poke' the tip into the hole to get the solder out.  What you want is to apply even heat from the side of the iron, and allow the flux to heat everything and draw it towards the iron.

i have some rosin flux - could i coat my soldering iron with that and then do the method you described? does the attractive properties of the flux work well enough to defy the solder's pull towards gravity? thanks for the tip.  )

Pure flux will help some.  Don't use too much, or it will make a mess.

Gravity shouldn't be an issue.  Solder will preferentially a material with high thermal conductivity like copper or gold.  The braid works by capillary action, soaking up the liquefied metal through channels.  Think of it like a puddle.  If you make a puddle with a gallon of water over an area of 1 sq. foot, then you will have a puddle that has a reasonable thickness.  If you make a puddle with a gallon of water over an area of 100 sq. feet, then the layer of water will be really really thin.  What you are doing with the wick is providing a really large surface for your solder 'puddle'.  This coupled with the solder preferring the copper of the wick to overcome little annoyances like gravity.

[swimmingbird]

I struggled and struggled with desoldering until I bought a proper desoldering gun

If you are serious about the hobby and intend on building and modding yours boards in the future I would highly recommend getting one - you can FULLY desolder a joint in <10 seconds whereas I struggled to do one joint in less than a minute with braid and/or the crappy suction pumps that come with many soldering kits