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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: LollyWater on Tue, 20 November 2012, 16:55:39
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Thinking of picking up some PBT caps for my first mechanical keyboard. I've made sure to go with a good, cheap board but I'm having trouble justifying spending $50 on key caps (that are, after all just molded plastic). Is there really a noticeable difference between ABS and PBT? Is that difference worth the money?
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There's a difference, it's noticeable... I can't tell you if it will be worth it to you tho.
PBT sounds different, and feels different. And of course different PBT caps will feel different as well, some molds have more texture, some less.
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PBT is also a more brittle (I believe) plastic, so harder plastics will resist shining longer etc.
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PBT is also a more brittle (I believe) plastic, so harder plastics will resist shining longer etc.
Why is this a bad thing?
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Hey Lolly, you sound like me :)
I have read endless messages about people complaining about their smooooth keycaps. Smooth plastic is naturally shinier than bumpy plastic.
I have nothing against shiny keycaps. All my current keyboards have smoooth keycaps or very mildly textured.
Which keyboard did you get?
I can't believe you are getting yours before I got mine! :p
PBT vs. ABS.
In my experience ABS plastic gets brittle and breaks at the 18-20 year old mark. PBT seems indestructible and lasts forever.
But they can mix additives into the ABS and the additives could allegedly make the plastic last longer or shorter.
I would love to have a set of ABS keycaps on 1 keyboard and PBT on another so that I could compare them over the years.
If you ever find any spherical keycaps please tell me. I would love to try them.
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it's not?
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Ordering a QFR from my local PC shop. :)
What's that Sth?
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PBT is also a more brittle (I believe) plastic, so harder plastics will resist shining longer etc.
Why is this a bad thing?
'Tis not a bad thing at all.
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I believe sth's comment was due to the weird topic name.. 'Is PBT vs ABS'
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no i was responding to lollywater asking why PBT durability is a bad thing
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no i was responding to lollywater asking why PBT durability is a bad thing
Oh, my bad. :))
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Ordering a QFR from my local PC shop. :)
Thanx for not making me mail you one :)
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it's not?
What I meant to ask was why is shine such a bad thing?
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it feels weird and some people don't like the looks
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I think what people don't like is that their keyboard starts out matte and then over time some of the keys become shiny and smooth while others are still matte. Mismatched keys are not cool.
I think if the keys just started out shiny and smooth to begin with then everyone would be totally ok with it because all the keys would match.
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So is PBT vs ABS?
;)
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If hate your keycaps eventually become shiny, then it is worth the price tag. PBT is a lot more resistance to that.
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I don't mind the way that shine looks, but I HATE the feel of slick caps. It is almost like they are greasy all the time, and I am scrupulous about the way I keep my keyboard clean.
Actually, I would love a set of keycaps that were rubbery, I have had media keys that way and they were great. I will not buy a calculator without rubbery keys.
I am long past even wanting a rubbery-key keyboard, it would certainly not wear well, so nicely-textured PBT is my first choice.
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There have been several threads on this topic in the recent past. OP might want to find and read through them.
The bottom line is there are trade-offs with both materials. ABS doubleshots will not wear out but they will shine quickly with heavy use and eventually become smooth. PBT will not shine, but the legends don't usually look as clean, are limited to colors darker than the key plastic, and often have registration issues. People around here generally prefer the feel of PBT.
So for me that means PBT for blanks and ABS for keys with legends.
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So is PBT vs ABS?
;)
:)) :rolleyes:
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So is PBT vs ABS?
;)
but then who was phone
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What is the difference between PBT?
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What is the difference between PBT?
Several kinds:
1. Cherry thick PBT (Usually come with dyesub printing on ancient Cherry keyboards, they maybe the most expensive MX keysets from $200 to $800?-_-)
2. Cherry regular PBT (can be easily found from Cherry's keyboards)
3. KBC thick PBT (mainly from imsto, Vortex recently released their thick PBT product)
4. KBC regular PBT (one of the most popular PBTs because it's easy to buy with many choices)
5. SP PBT (I've only seen blue dyesub 87-keyset and green blank 33-keyset around here)
6. Korean Custom PBT (I have no idea where they got those awesome PBT caps)
And some others such as Keycool's PBT, Noppoo's PBT, Leopold FC700R's PBT, but they usually come with keyboards.
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Yikes :eek:
I must be more careful what I ask!
Actually I paraphrased my university calculus lecturer who started the course, and the course notes, with the question "What is the difference between a duck?". The answer that was given at the time was "One of it's legs are both the same".
Thank you for the enlightenment regarding PBT - I had no idea there were so many types :)
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I have an on-topic question. What's POM plastic and how does it compare to PBT in terms of thickness and feel. Also, where do you find 108 key POM sets?
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Yikes :eek:
I must be more careful what I ask!
Actually I paraphrased my university calculus lecturer who started the course, and the course notes, with the question "What is the difference between a duck?". The answer that was given at the time was "One of it's legs are both the same".
Thank you for the enlightenment regarding PBT - I had no idea there were so many types :)
Haha, I didn't notice that it wasn't a real question. :)
I have an on-topic question. What's POM plastic and how does it compare to PBT in terms of thickness and feel. Also, where do you find 108 key POM sets?
POM is basically as thick as regular PBT caps. It's also not easy to get shiny. POM feels more smooth, kinda like ABS, but different from ABS for sure. I only know that there're Cherry POM black blank 104-keyset and KBC Rainbow POM 105-Keyset in the market, haven't seen any 108 keyset.
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POM are the best imo. Silky smooooth.....
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/G80-3494/rare.jpg)
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I would like to buy POM keycaps. They sound delicious. Any 104 US Layout sets around? Or maybe an 87 US set?
Are POM keycaps as good as Topre keycaps?
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A lot of people (myself included) don't like POM due to its slick feel. I believe black Choc Minis and some black Cherry G80-11900s have POM keycaps. I don't think I've ever seen a standard layout POM set for sale.
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Choc Mini POM and Cherry POM are very different imo. I prefer Cherry POM.
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PBT is also a more brittle (I believe) plastic, so harder plastics will resist shining longer etc.
Yes, harder materials in general (for a similar "toughness" will be more brittle than less-hard materials. If you drop them, it's probably okay, but don't expect PBT to survive if you step on it.
A lot of people (myself included) don't like POM due to its slick feel. I believe black Choc Minis and some black Cherry G80-11900s have POM keycaps. I don't think I've ever seen a standard layout POM set for sale.
And the DAS II, blank POM is the best, as the cherry infilling pokes up too much for my taste. POM is pretty good, too.
I have read that the Zowie celeritas uses nylon or something differen,t and PC has been used in the past (though it's no longer available).
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Yes, harder materials in general (for a similar "toughness" will be more brittle than less-hard materials. If you drop them, it's probably okay, but don't expect PBT to survive if you step on it.
I read in a different thread where some guy said he stood on his PBT keycap and applied his entire 200 (or whatever) pound weight on his PBT key and it did not break.
After reading that I was convinced that PBT is indestructible. :)
But I still want POM keycaps. :)
So the only way for me to get good POM keycaps is to track down some old Cherry keyboard that had them and buy it then take the caps off and put them on my new (slim & trim) keyboard?
Sigh. I would end up with Cherry lowriders... I would really rather stick to OEM profile to stay compatible with my crashpads. At least for now.
I was thinking I could bribe Signature Plastics with $1000.00 to make me some but then I found out they don't do OEM profile caps. :( Oh well... at least I just saved myself $1000.00 :)
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The PLU-MLG-3000-NKRO in black has standard 104 ANSI "OEM" profile POM keys, the legends wear quite quick though.