Dell = Weapon of Mass Destruction

[Rajagra]

I've been fixing a neighbour's Dell PC. Like a good techie, I've been unplugging it from the mains when fiddling around inside it.

What I didn't realise was that each time I plugged it in it was causing a power surge. One of my wall-wart PSUs for some network kit failed earlier. I replaced it. Just now when I plugged in the Dell again I heard a pop, and the replacement PSU is now also dead. I suppose I should be grateful the TFT I had plugged in didn't explode.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Crap PSUs are bad. Crap companies who put crap PSUs in their PCs are bad. Damn you, Dell!:mad:

[ch_123]

Dell used to use good PSUs at one point, I think they were made by FSP. Maybe that's only on their higher end PCs.

Well, at least they don't use those PSUs and motherboards that used the standard ATX connector, but a non-standard wiring arrangement. Whoever came up with that idea should have been shot...

[rdjack21]

I Just tell my neighbours that I use Linux or Solaris only so I don't know squat about PC or Macs. That tends to scare them off.

[InSanCen]

I fix their crappy store-bought, malware infested POS's, and take their money in return... am I weird?

[ch_123]

I do the same thing with some of my neighbour's PCs. Their teenage sons download low quality porn from dodgy sites, their computers get viruses, I get paid to reinstall Windows, and the circle of life continues =P

[Mr.6502]

I just helped a friend with a Dell that is 1.5 years old.  It has the standard connector with non-standard wiring in it.  Totally annoying garbage.  

I used to like Dell, but at some point I looked down spec sheets for PSUs for them and found that I just happened to get Dells with standard PSUs, so I never realized the whole time some people were getting nonstandard ones that seemed designed to destroy the computers of people that tried to do a simple PSU swap.

WMD sounds about right to me.

[erricrice]

I fix their crappy store-bought, malware infested POS's, and take their money in return... am I weird?

Lol, I totally do that!  Hey, if you're feeling guilty about it, just send them to the local Best Buy and then when they come back in tears tell them you're giving them a good deal haha.

Unless, of course, you're charging MORE than Best Buy, and in that case you should be shot.

And yeah, to add to the actual thread, Dells pretty much are WMD.  Pretty good description there haha

[microsoft windows]

Dell is known very well for using substandard components and design in their computers. Around 2005, many Pentium-4 laptops were recalled for overheating or defective batteries that catch on fire.

I would never buy a Dell computer.

[InSanCen]

Unless, of course, you're charging MORE than Best Buy, and in that case you should be shot.

If it's a simple F&R, then I'm much cheaper.

If it's a Malware infested POS, then I am cheaper.

If it's a standard build, I'm a little bit cheaper.

If it's a Full on Pre-Overclocked, Watercooled build in a Scratch-built case, then I charge silly-money.

[ch_123]

Dell is known very well for using substandard components and design in their computers. Around 2005, many Pentium-4 laptops were recalled for overheating or defective batteries that catch on fire.

I would never buy a Dell computer.

Same with about half of the other big name OEM corporations. I buy Thinkpads and build my desktops. Happy days.

[Hofy]

Here is one I just ran into.  Friend brings over their Dell for me to fix. (Daughter was on Limewire and got it infected.)  I just had them bring the box.   I plugged in my USB mouse and keyboard.  They work on boot as I was able to access the bios.  However, once Windows comes up neither work.  Once I have their Dell kb and mouse no problems.
Does Dell have something in the OS that makes it so only their stuff works?

[Rajagra]

Here is one I just ran into.  Friend brings over their Dell for me to fix. (Daughter was on Limewire and got it infected.)  I just had them bring the box.   I plugged in my USB mouse and keyboard.  They work on boot as I was able to access the bios.  However, once Windows comes up neither work.  Once I have their Dell kb and mouse no problems.
Does Dell have something in the OS that makes it so only their stuff works?

Maybe non-admins are prevented from installing new HIDs?
Try logging out then hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del a few times, then log in as administrator (no password!).

I created a temporary admin account so I could work easier without having to do the above every time I booted.

[Hofy]

Ray,
I had no use of the keyboard by the time it came up to the log in screen.
What I ended up doing was, using the Dell kb and mouse, got logged in and unplugged the Dell units and plugged mine in.  Then Windows picked them up and I was able to use them.

I just had another Dell come in today that starts up with no log in screen (single user) and Windows picked up my KB and mouse no problem.

[timw4mail]

Does Dell have computers that actually comply to the USB spec?

[erricrice]

It was probably just a USB recognition issue.  Happens all the time.  Ask Metadot.

Lol, you're horrible.

And so is Dell...

[CX23882]

Here is one I just ran into.  Friend brings over their Dell for me to fix. (Daughter was on Limewire and got it infected.)  I just had them bring the box.   I plugged in my USB mouse and keyboard.  They work on boot as I was able to access the bios.  However, once Windows comes up neither work.  Once I have their Dell kb and mouse no problems.
Does Dell have something in the OS that makes it so only their stuff works?

Did you try waiting? I've found that barring a compatibility issue between the motherboard and keyboard, it will eventually be installed and ready for use. This is not something specific to Dells. All of my systems behave that way.

[Hofy]

Did you try waiting? I've found that barring a compatibility issue between the motherboard and keyboard, it will eventually be installed and ready for use. This is not something specific to Dells. All of my systems behave that way.

Yes, I waited for a whole night. (10+ hours).  
Unless logged in nothing is going to happen.  With no function out of the mouse or keyboard there is no logging in.

[itlnstln]

Weird. I have never experienced that. I have had 5 Dells over the past several years, and I have never experienced that before.

[timw4mail]

Because it never was a Dell specific issue. Just be glad USB works as well as it does.  There is some pretty complex stuff going on under the hood.

It may not have been, but they've consistently been the ones with the most trouble, it seems.

Of course USB is complex, the standard was first developed by Intel...

[ch_123]

There is some pretty complex stuff going on under the hood.

I've heard tell that it was designed that way so that the CPU would be used more, and therefore people would buy faster (Intel) CPUs. Then again, with USB3, the workload is being offloaded from the CPU onto dedicated hardware.

[itlnstln]

It may not have been, but they've consistently been the ones with the most trouble, it seems

Why would an industry-standard driver work differently on industry-standard hardware in Windows just because Dell (or ASUS, MSI, Gateway, etc.) is stamped on the front?

[timw4mail]

I've heard tell that it was designed that way so that the CPU would be used more, and therefore people would buy faster (Intel) CPUs. Then again, with USB3, the workload is being offloaded from the CPU onto dedicated hardware.

That really wouldn't surprise me if that was the reason USB is so CPU-dependent.

[timw4mail]

Give me a break.  I once worked at the Intel Architecture labs.  CPU cycles never came up.  

And USB is one of the top 10 inventions of the decade.  Nobody remembers what it was like plugging in a peripheral before USB?

Well keyboards and mice have always been plug and play. You just had to restart the computer first.

[itlnstln]

And USB is one of the top 10 inventions of the decade. Nobody remembers what it was like plugging in a peripheral before USB?

No sh*t.  Rebooting your PC everytime you wanted to change mice, add a printer, whatever.  That sucked.  I would have taken Firewire, too.

[timw4mail]

No sh*t.  Rebooting your PC everytime you wanted to change mice, add a printer, whatever.  That sucked.  I would have taken Firewire, too.

At least Firewire is hardware based.

[ch_123]

Well keyboards and mice have always been plug and play. You just had to restart the computer first.

You obviously haven't heard of PS/2's undocumented hot plugging features.

Give me a break. I once worked at the Intel Architecture labs. CPU cycles never came up.

I'm sure they told you it was designed by the Good Lord himself...

[timw4mail]

You obviously haven't heard of PS/2's undocumented hot plugging features.

Well, if you haven't had a PS/2 device plugged into that port, you do have to restart the computer to use that port.

Otherwise, yes, PS/2 is actually surprisingly hot-swappable.

[Rajagra]

Otherwise, yes, PS/2 is actually surprisingly hot-swappable.

I'm sure it's no coincidence that this ability to hot-plug with relative safety came hand in hand with the inabilily to source enough current to drive older PS/2 devices.

It's PS/2 Lite.

[timw4mail]

I'm sure it's no coincidence that this ability to hot-plug with relative safety came hand in hand with the inabilily to source enough current to drive older PS/2 devices.

It's PS/2 Lite.

I've never had a problem powering my keyboards with PS/2, except the Model F I have, but I'm sure that's somewhat due to the age of the controller in the keyboard.

Really, I would think it would be harder on the keyboards, and their controllers than it would be on the computer's motherboard to hot-swap PS/2.

[CX23882]

Unless logged in nothing is going to happen.  With no function out of the mouse or keyboard there is no logging in.

You don't have to be logged in if they're standard HID devices.

On XP and Vista, once you've reached the login screen, standard USB devices (hubs, HID keyboards, HID mice etc) are installed silently. I've seen it happen many times on my systems.

It sounds like a USB detection issue occured on your system.

[Hofy]

You don't have to be logged in if they're standard HID devices.

On XP and Vista, once you've reached the login screen, standard USB devices (hubs, HID keyboards, HID mice etc) are installed silently. I've seen it happen many times on my systems.

It sounds like a USB detection issue occured on your system.

Not my system.  But yes it should have picked them up, that is what had me stumped.

[erricrice]

Remind me not to buy PS/2 keyboards from you guys.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does it pose any threat to connected devices?  I do this all the time and I haven't had problems, but if it is going to cause problems, I definitely will stop doing it!

[Rajagra]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does it pose any threat to connected devices?  I do this all the time and I haven't had problems, but if it is going to cause problems, I definitely will stop doing it!

PS/2 is not officially hot-pluggable.
Hot-plugging PS/2 devices can and has damaged them.

Anecdotal evidence suggests modern devices are less likely to be damaged this way...

... Which is just as well, since many motherboards leave power fed to the PS/2 ports even when the PC is shut down.

[erricrice]

Ahh, I see.  Good to know though.

[microsoft windows]

You know something about Dell these days? They make the WORST keyboards. Next time they're getting rid of one at work I'll take it home and perform experiments on it.

[timw4mail]

PS/2 is not officially hot-pluggable.
Hot-plugging PS/2 devices can and has damaged them.

Anecdotal evidence suggests modern devices are less likely to be damaged this way...

... Which is just as well, since many motherboards leave power fed to the PS/2 ports even when the PC is shut down.

ADB is a lot more dangerous to try to "hot plug," as one of the pins is the power circuit.

[roaduck]

If you can`t get into a pc because you can`t bypass the admin password - I've got some heavy-duty software to reset or remove the password in DOS before windows boots.The BIOS in DELL's are crap as well.I've got a VOSTRO 200 and it'll be sold before Christmas - I got it cheap as a stop-gap and I first totally shredded both partitions - (which took all weekend - for a 160 GB in Guttmann 35x overwrite mode) C and the backup image.I never put the OS and the back-up on the same HDD - if the Hard Drive fails - you've had it so it goes on an external or a second installed HDD.Did a format - put Tiny XP in then, of course no xp drivers on Dell site for sound and video because it's all Vista home crap.Dell don't even tell you what motherboard it is - used AIDA 32 for sys info.Finally got compatible drivers from Foxconn G-33 mainboard site.It should have been done in half an hour - it took me 2 days to find the drivers to avoid the "found new hardware" crap and yellow question marks in device manager.I looked up the Vendor and model ID's for the chipset - What a pain - No more DELL for me.

[CX23882]

I don't get all the Dell hating on this thread. I've got a couple of Dell systems at home and they work fine. My only complaint is that the CPU fan connector on my E521 is a 5-pin rather than the standard 4-pin. If I ever want to replace the fan I'll need to buy a $5 adapter. Everything else is standardised, and build quality is good.

I didn't have any trouble finding XP drivers for the Vostro 200:
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?os=WW1&osl=EN&catid=-1&impid=-1&servicetag=&SystemID=VOS_D_200&hidos=WLH&hidlang=en&TabIndex=

[roaduck]

It's set up for Vista only really CX23882.A vista to xp downgrade would give precisely the same problems that I encountered as well.

There is 3 outdated sound drivers which are incompatible with my on-board sound and no graphics drivers at all for XP.The chipset drivers are useless as well.Build quality is worse than average - I've been building PC's for ten years.

[itlnstln]

While I don't use Dells at home (I build my own), the Dells I have at work are great.  I'm not sure what bottle all this Haterade is pouring from myself.

[InSanCen]

Dell Business and Dell consumer are 2 very different things.

Business stuff is good to great, consumer stuff is fecking awful to OK.

And dell servers are for the most part, top-notch kit.