Razer to release their own keyswitch

[Kamen Rider Blade]

60 million lifecycle? Better than Cherry MX? I call Bull****.

Welly
"Up to 60"
Cherry is 50 minimum.

PS, it is not nice calling out reps like that.

Who cares, I'd rather Razer not try to feed us marketing BS and twisting words to make their product sound better than it really is. I don't give a damn about Political Correctness when we know Razer has a history of marketing BS.

[PointyFox]

Looks like very slightly shortened MX Blue.

[laffindude]

Who cares, I'd rather Razer not try to feed us marketing BS and twisting words to make their product sound better than it really is. I don't give a damn about Political Correctness when we know Razer has a history of marketing BS.

lasting 2 keystrokes total would be within spec of "up to 60 million." That has nothing to do with political correctness.

[xuanwumen]

Lots of companies seem to be releasing "their own" switches these days...Razer, tT, Noppoo, probably others as well.

Like the OP, I have to wonder how many of these are actually just Kailhs. Higher actuation point, as described in the specs on Razer's site, would be consistent with Kailh. And Kailh has been more than happy, in the past, to let keyboard makers advertise the switches under the keyboard's brand rather than Kailh's.

When reading from Chinese articles, it also said to be Kailh made possibly. I would add keycool to your list .

[C5Allroad]

I just wish people knew what crap Razer is. My friend lit off in my saying they're superior since they're known and my Ducky is just there like what's up?

The marketing works sadly...

[mougrim]

I understand what you mean. When Mandolin produces his specialized bull**** Mandolin crystal I get mad also.

Hmmm... it wasn't about that "special" Molel M with transparent quartz?

[SpAmRaY]

Lots of companies seem to be releasing "their own" switches these days...Razer, tT, Noppoo, probably others as well.

Like the OP, I have to wonder how many of these are actually just Kailhs. Higher actuation point, as described in the specs on Razer's site, would be consistent with Kailh. And Kailh has been more than happy, in the past, to let keyboard makers advertise the switches under the keyboard's brand rather than Kailh's.

When reading from Chinese articles, it also said to be Kailh made possibly. I would add keycool to your list .

keycool is making there own switches??

[xuanwumen]

Lots of companies seem to be releasing "their own" switches these days...Razer, tT, Noppoo, probably others as well.

Like the OP, I have to wonder how many of these are actually just Kailhs. Higher actuation point, as described in the specs on Razer's site, would be consistent with Kailh. And Kailh has been more than happy, in the past, to let keyboard makers advertise the switches under the keyboard's brand rather than Kailh's.

When reading from Chinese articles, it also said to be Kailh made possibly. I would add keycool to your list .

keycool is making there own switches??

No, keycool is going to release their new keyboards with Kailh switches. They say they design together with the switch maker. I am expecting the new models. First they will start on base models, like kc84,87 non backlit versions.

[lonedruid]

i feel bad for razer though

[epzy]

No idea if this has been linked here before, but; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1T5BVGCTY-g

[nubbinator]

No idea if this has been linked here before, but; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1T5BVGCTY-g

It was linked on this page and quoted a few times.

[BlueBär]

No idea if this has been linked here before, but; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1T5BVGCTY-g

Just a few posts above.

When did Linus start fidgeting around that much?
What I take from this video: He says he didn't really feel the difference (which is obvious as 0,3mm don't make one) and confirms that the switches are made by Kailh for a lower price than Cherry. If you look at the Razer shop though, they cost the same as the BWs with MX Blues...

[Jixr]

i'm currious to see if this is going to start creating a cherry elitist movement that we see with certain brands on this site.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

No idea if this has been linked here before, but; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1T5BVGCTY-g

Just a few posts above.

When did Linus start fidgeting around that much?
What I take from this video: He says he didn't really feel the difference (which is obvious as 0,3mm don't make one) and confirms that the switches are made by Kailh for a lower price than Cherry. If you look at the Razer shop though, they cost the same as the BWs with MX Blues...

Ergo Razer trying to keep prices the same, lowering manufactering costs, while maximizing profits and most likely lowering quality to barely acceptable levels.

[berserkfan]

60 million lifecycle? Better than Cherry MX? I call Bull****.

Welly
"Up to 60"
Cherry is 50 minimum.

PS, it is not nice calling out reps like that.

Possibly something was lost in translation.

The entire keyboard can probably last 60 million keypresses. Works out to 555,555 actuations per key. unless you're a power user of keyboards like me, that's enough to last one year until warranty wears out. And since Razer's customers are kids who get a new Razer every Christmas, it all works out well. 

Most Ghers don't seem to understand that not all manufacturers want to build keyboards that last a lifetime. Razer's business model produces a new color every year and all the kids want a new color to look cool for their classmates. They're quite satisfied that way. I won't begrudge them anything - Razer has a nice market share and it deserves that share. Leave us serious geeks to play with our Filcos and Decks.

[remdell]

Another video from NCIX:

[Candyflip]

Another video from NCIX:

I just read the first comment on YT: ''The best keyboard in the world is Razer Deathstalker Ultimate, but the price is around 225£". Closed the video immediately.

[gameaholic]

I kinda want to buy some orange ones to switch into my QFR to try.  Will they sell the parts individually?

[SpAmRaY]

I kinda want to buy some orange ones to switch into my QFR to try.  Will they sell the parts individually?

I really doubt it. As has already been said you're best bet will probably be getting used/defective boards on ebay.

[Techno Trousers]

What makes me a little nervous about this whole thing is thinking this could be the beginning of a repeat of the sequence of events that nearly killed off mechanical keyboards in the 1990s. Round after round of squeezing every penny of profit, going for cheaper and cheaper materials until the only keyboards you can find are crap rubber domes, the best of which are barely good enough to last through 18 months of light use.

I hope consumers will be smart enough to realize that we are in a real keyboard renaissance. It wasn't that long ago when Logitec was getting over a hundred bucks for junker rubber dome "gamer" keyboards. I hope we never get back to those days, but it sure sounds like Razer is starting down a slippery slope here.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

What makes me a little nervous about this whole thing is thinking this could be the beginning of a repeat of the sequence of events that nearly killed off mechanical keyboards in the 1990s. Round after round of squeezing every penny of profit, going for cheaper and cheaper materials until the only keyboards you can find are crap rubber domes, the best of which are barely good enough to last through 18 months of light use.

I hope consumers will be smart enough to realize that we are in a real keyboard renaissance. It wasn't that long ago when Logitec was getting over a hundred bucks for junker rubber dome "gamer" keyboards. I hope we never get back to those days, but it sure sounds like Razer is starting down a slippery slope here.

That's why it requires us, the informed people, to educate those who would spend money on bad quality keyboards.

[False_Dmitry_II]

What makes me a little nervous about this whole thing is thinking this could be the beginning of a repeat of the sequence of events that nearly killed off mechanical keyboards in the 1990s. Round after round of squeezing every penny of profit, going for cheaper and cheaper materials until the only keyboards you can find are crap rubber domes, the best of which are barely good enough to last through 18 months of light use.

I hope consumers will be smart enough to realize that we are in a real keyboard renaissance. It wasn't that long ago when Logitec was getting over a hundred bucks for junker rubber dome "gamer" keyboards. I hope we never get back to those days, but it sure sounds like Razer is starting down a slippery slope here.

We could be headed back there, but I've still got enough old stuff that I'd probably be fine even limited to just what I have now. I'd say though that the real problem was that people didn't pay attention to what they typed on and were always perfectly happy with just using whatever came from their computer OEM. Once everyone realized nobody cared and they could make rubber domes for nothing that's what they did.

Actually, during that time, before I knew/remembered about mech as an option, for my own computer I just simply used a $5 inland domes keyboard from microcenter - it actually felt better to me than all of the gamer domes somehow. Even despite how cheap it was and that I used it for 3+ years it's not even an ounce shiny.

That said, I have a friend who is super happy with his $300 logitech rubber domes with a tiny built in screen. I can't even get him to try a mechanical, but I also don't really have any flashy modern looking stuff because nearly everything I've got is old - even if I have dyed and painted them all. I'll show him that RGB from corsair vid at some point and see if that gets a reaction at all. But that sort of thing is going to be difficult to get around - because that's worse than just being oblivious to what's out there.

Personally, one of the things I think is needed to complete the renaissance is for cherry switches to not be the only modern (read: flashy, gamery) looking game in town. Matias switches do exist, but they're currently only in fairly normal looking stuff; and unicomp is still just building newer clunky model m's. I'd also like it if other switches such as space invaders and monterey blue came back in modern stuff as well - since they are all contact switches it's just as possible to make stuff on those designs into gamer-style boards - even with diodes, and LEDs - as anything else.

[davkol]

Meanwhile, some top-rated comments are from geekhackers in several "gamer" subreddits and at some hardware forums. There's still some hope in humanity remaining.

[wetto]

Meanwhile, I'm trying to convince Matias to sell his switches to other companies as well (and there seems to be people interested on them).

This may be the start of the downfall of Cherry MX and the rise of cheap knock-offs everywhere, but not all is bad. Topre is getting more accessible, Matias switches are available in more keyboards now (and soon maybe even gaming keyboards) and Cherry may end up having to change some of its policies to avoid losing even more clients. Yes, it's bad that soon enough (edit: it's already happening) people will say that these new Razer switches are the best switches of the world, but besides all this BS from Razer and its fanboys, this might as well be good for the market.

[C5Allroad]

What makes me a little nervous about this whole thing is thinking this could be the beginning of a repeat of the sequence of events that nearly killed off mechanical keyboards in the 1990s. Round after round of squeezing every penny of profit, going for cheaper and cheaper materials until the only keyboards you can find are crap rubber domes, the best of which are barely good enough to last through 18 months of light use.

I hope consumers will be smart enough to realize that we are in a real keyboard renaissance. It wasn't that long ago when Logitec was getting over a hundred bucks for junker rubber dome "gamer" keyboards. I hope we never get back to those days, but it sure sounds like Razer is starting down a slippery slope here.

That's why it requires us, the informed people, to educate those who would spend money on bad quality keyboards.

The thing is that, those who already own Razer products think they're the best things ever to hit the market and refuse to believe that a company that is named after an animal that goes quack is complete ****. People are stubborn to believe that Razer sucks.

[kmacwannabe]

When did this turn into a gaming superiority war? I thought this thread was about Razer...

No one is talking about gaming superiority everyone taking what I say the wrong way or some **** like wtf all im saying is that razer is bull**** and that league player doesn't know wtf he's talking about now suddenly everyone thinks I'm bashing dota and league of lesbians

He's a paid shill, just like anybody who uses a Razer product for promo's, but in private or in public uses somebody elses product.

Plenty of professional gamers wear razer headsets, but if you look carefully, have Ear buds underneath to hide the fact that they aren't using Razer's promo headset.

They only have to look the part, they don't actually have to use it to get their $$$

The earbuds aren't a secretive Razer hate thing. It's standard practice in tourneys. Game sound in the earbuds, headsets over them with white noise so people can't tell you what the other side is doing.

[kmacwannabe]

First look of the BW Ultimate 2014...

Nothing new, Kailh Switches confirmed.

And their symbols WTF. They made it even worse than before.

Show Image

Lol, the Razer marketing guys claim to have 60,000,000 Keypress durability. That's what they're marketing.

I don't blame Linus, he's presenting a preview, this isn't a review.

As far as the factual information, he did mention that they are from Kailh, from China.

So if you are like most western folks the "Made in China" = Garbage quality is generally a safe assumption.

The amount of corruption, laziness, and lack of craftsmanship in Mainland Chinese products comes from their greedy selfish view on consumerism.

Mainland Chinese production generally doesn't understand the concept of a happy consumer = return customers and spread news on good products.

Their philosophy is once they get your money, the rest doesn't matter.


There is a reason why German engineering and design is some of the best in the world.

Given Razer's design to be good enough until the warranty expires design philosophy, the number of complaints from their previous BW KB's, and the mainland Chinese manufacturing reputation, the only people who would buy Razer are fanboys or people who don't know any better and buy what's popular or shiny.


I wish there would be a team of high end companies who do guerilla anti-BS / Anti-Razer marketing to counter all their BS.

This is kind of gross for Geekhack. That statement is verging on racism, and on top of that, I do hope you realize that TONS of high quality products are made in China.

Apple, who are known for having possibly the highest quality fabrication and machining for consumer electronics, make nearly all of their products in China. Currently, China doesn't design or engineer a lot of things, they fulfill western designs and ship them elsewhere.

This assumption that German engineering is the best is almost Aryan, and I find it really disgusting to say the least. I have had tons of awful, awful products that were made in Germany, the USA, and Japan etc. I have also had tons of good products that were made in China. In fact, I'm not sure I can say that it is my experience that Chinese quality is on the whole lower than western quality. When you spend the right amount of money on a product, it doesn't actually seem to me like on is lower quality than the other. If you buy something cheap that was made in China, well, no **** if it breaks on you. You got what you deserved as the consumer in that situation.

[Candyflip]

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

[dante]

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

Many owners / ex-owners of German cars would like to disagree with you.

[Candyflip]

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

Many owners / ex-owners of German cars would like to disagree with you.

My father is a proud owner of a very old BMW that is sill going strong...

[nubbinator]

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

Many owners / ex-owners of German cars would like to disagree with you.

And they're still much better than most American engineered cars and Chinese engineered cars.  If you want a good quality car, you're usually looking at German or Japanese.

Chinese made products are generally lower quality than German made products, nothing racist about making that statement (and I love how kamc Godwinned this discussion).  And we've seen how low quality Kailh switches are from people in other countries where they're more common.

My father is a proud owner of a very old BMW that is sill going strong...

And the car of choice in many third world countries are old Mercedes and Toyotas that have lasted them forever.

[dante]

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

Many owners / ex-owners of German cars would like to disagree with you.

And they're still much better than most American engineered cars and Chinese engineered cars.  If you want a good quality car, you're usually looking at German or Japanese.

Chinese made products are generally lower quality than German made products, nothing racist about making that statement (and I love how kamc Godwinned this discussion).  And we've seen how low quality Kailh switches are from people in other countries where they're more common.

My father is a proud owner of a very old BMW that is sill going strong...

And the car of choice in many third world countries are old Mercedes and Toyotas that have lasted them forever.

I agree, the older cars were simpler and more reliable; but somewhere along the way they got lazy.

Saying they are higher quality than American/Chinese isn't saying much.  That's like saying a Vegans turd smells better and is more solid than someones who eats McDonalds all the time.

[Candyflip]

I was only replying to the guy that stated that was racist or Aryan or some **** that people recognize it as arguably one of the best in the world...

[kmacwannabe]

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

Many owners / ex-owners of German cars would like to disagree with you.

And they're still much better than most American engineered cars and Chinese engineered cars.  If you want a good quality car, you're usually looking at German or Japanese.

Chinese made products are generally lower quality than German made products, nothing racist about making that statement (and I love how kamc Godwinned this discussion).  And we've seen how low quality Kailh switches are from people in other countries where they're more common.

My father is a proud owner of a very old BMW that is sill going strong...

And the car of choice in many third world countries are old Mercedes and Toyotas that have lasted them forever.

Cars are a red herring in this situation. My point was not that their engineering was specifically good, I was pointing out that most things you buy that say "Made in China" weren't actually engineered in China. On top of that, you can't just say that German engineering is the best. That's generalizing. Every country makes good and bad products, was my point.

I wasn't saying it was racist to say that China has a lower quality of engineering, I was saying it was racist to say that they were greedy and didn't care about customers. It IS basically Aryanism to say that Germans are the only people that care about customers, because they have the best engineering, and they aren't greedy.

TL;DR Don't generalize. It doesn't suit anyone on this forum and you can't justify generalizations with facts.

[kmacwannabe]

I was only replying to the guy that stated that was racist or Aryan or some **** that people recognize it as arguably one of the best in the world...

But that's not at all what you said...

What does that have to do anything with engineering? German engineering is the best in the world and that is a fact whether you see it as racism or not.

You said it was a fact, not that people perceive it as a fact. I can tell you do, though.

[nubbinator]

There are multiple Chinese people on the forum who have said that same thing about Chinese companies though.  Tinlong had a post about it not too long ago.  And no one is saying that Germans are the only people who care about their customers.  The statement was that, in general, Chinese companies and Western companies have different ways of doing business and that has the end result of German stuff typically being higher quality because they have a longer term business outlook.

This is getting off topic though.  We're here to laugh at all of Razer's marketing mumbo jumbo and speculate about which Kailh switch they cast in a different color.

[gameaholic]

I know Razer gets a lot of hate around here.  Someone from here should really reach out to Razer and invite them to participate in the forum in order to improve their products.  We have had reps from Coolermaster and Corsair here.  The feedback helped get Coolermaster to remove the excessive branding on the QFR.  Logitech needs to get in here as well.  I think they should sell the little screen separately so I can throw it on my desk somewhere. 

So are the stems on the Razer switches actually different?  What does this have to do with Cherry's patent running out?

Linus's preview said the clicky ones pretty much feel like blues.  Will the tactile ones pretty much feel like browns or clears?

 

[kmacwannabe]

There are multiple Chinese people on the forum who have said that same thing about Chinese companies though.  Tinlong had a post about it not too long ago.  And no one is saying that Germans are the only people who care about their customers.  The statement was that, in general, Chinese companies and Western companies have different ways of doing business and that has the end result of German stuff typically being higher quality because they have a longer term business outlook.

This is getting off topic though.  We're here to laugh at all of Razer's marketing mumbo jumbo and speculate about which Kailh switch they cast in a different color.

I get fine products from China that work very well. Namely, every single piece of my custom desktop here as well as my monitor, mouse, and BWU aside from the switches. I wasn't attacking you, I was referring to the guy that said Chinese people are greedy and don't have a long term business outlook.

I will say it again, it has not been my experience that German products are of a higher quality than products from anywhere else. All industrialized countries are capable of making and have made good products that last a long time and serve their intended purpose. It's time to stop this "made in china"=low quality by default crap. When was the last time an industrialized nation made something to such high tolerances and precision as the iPhone with the unparalleled level of consistency that they have? They only thing I can think of, is in fact, Toyota.

We, as consumers, have to ascertain the level of quality through which a product is manufactured by personal experience and through research. Not by the sticker on it that says "that's the power of German engineering"or "made in China".

[Candyflip]

Imagine a Razer rep makes a thread here... the **** storm it would occur )

[daerid]

In the grand scheme of things, Logitech and Razer are too big to really care about what goes on in li'l ol' GeekHack. We'd have to seriously make a dent in their bottom lines (or be a credible "threat") for them to take notice (most feasibly by swaying others away from their products).

[Candyflip]

In the grand scheme of things, Logitech and Razer are too big to really care about what goes on in li'l ol' GeekHack. We'd have to seriously make a dent in their bottom lines (or be a credible "threat") for them to take notice (most feasibly by swaying others away from their products).

While that is true Corsair is arguably as big as them too and they have a rep here...

[mapple]

There are multiple Chinese people on the forum who have said that same thing about Chinese companies though.  Tinlong had a post about it not too long ago.  And no one is saying that Germans are the only people who care about their customers.  The statement was that, in general, Chinese companies and Western companies have different ways of doing business and that has the end result of German stuff typically being higher quality because they have a longer term business outlook.

This is getting off topic though.  We're here to laugh at all of Razer's marketing mumbo jumbo and speculate about which Kailh switch they cast in a different color.

I get fine products from China that work very well. Namely, every single piece of my custom desktop here as well as my monitor, mouse, and BWU aside from the switches. I wasn't attacking you, I was referring to the guy that said Chinese people are greedy and don't have a long term business outlook.

I will say it again, it has not been my experience that German products are of a higher quality than products from anywhere else. All industrialized countries are capable of making and have made good products that last a long time and serve their intended purpose. It's time to stop this "made in china"=low quality by default crap. When was the last time an industrialized nation made something to such high tolerances and precision as the iPhone with the unparalleled level of consistency that they have? They only thing I can think of, is in fact, Toyota.

We, as consumers, have to ascertain the level of quality through which a product is manufactured by personal experience and through research. Not by the sticker on it that says "that's the power of German engineering"or "made in China".

type and try to deny facts but mate got right, Germany was and still is and will be best engineering country with huge potential none murrica or other china won't ever catch up with all that stuff..... and if someone would like to say that there's a lot of murrica people which were great in science please verify again where those people came from;).

Again make trash talk as much as you want about racism and all that related sh*t but those are just facts;). And those cannot be denied.

[mougrim]

type and try to deny facts but mate got right, Germany was and still is and will be best engineering country with huge potential none murrica or other china won't ever catch up with all that stuff..... and if someone would like to say that there's a lot of murrica people which were great in science please verify again where those people came from;).

Again make trash talk as much as you want about racism and all that related sh*t but those are just facts;). And those cannot be denied.
[/quote]

Cherry switches are fine, yes... But I'll begin to worship their engineers only when they'll make individual Buckling Spring capacitive switches. In other words - never. Still, their switches are pretty good.

[KebinPls]

Kailh is a cherry clone which apparently hold up nowhere near as welkl as a cherry. These switches seem to be made by them, which by association would make them cheaper and weaker than cherry switches, but for the same price as cherry switches. Razer seems to be cutting costs by designing their own switch with apparently less actuation distances for faster double tapping. Someone on reddit has a sample model coming in soon, he'll post a review when he gets it.

[daerid]

There is no way Corsair is anywhere near the size of Logitech. Maybe, maybe they might be comparable to Razer, but I doubt it. I would argue Corsair is really only well known in the enthusiast market, mainly those who build their own computers. Razer is the go to gaming brand for the masses, Logitech is easily as well known in the gaming sector, and they have huge name recognition with the non gaming mainstream and business sector as well.

[BlueBär]

Cherry switches are fine, yes... But I'll begin to worship their engineers only when they'll make individual Buckling Spring capacitive switches. In other words - never. Still, their switches are pretty good.

Yeah that's not going to happen.

Razer seems to be cutting costs by designing their own switch with apparently less actuation distances for faster double tapping.

0,3mm is nothing you are going to notice while playing. Again, three pieces of paper have same height. The game you are playing is probably not even reading key inputs that fast so that it would matter at all.

So are the stems on the Razer switches actually different?  What does this have to do with Cherry's patent running out?
Linus's preview said the clicky ones pretty much feel like blues.  Will the tactile ones pretty much feel like browns or clears?

The stems are barely different if not exact copies. Cherrys patent ran out ten years ago.
The tactile ones are clones of MX Browns, yes.

When was the last time an industrialized nation made something to such high tolerances and precision as the iPhone with the unparalleled level of consistency that they have?

You know you should not believe anything that marketing tells you without a grain of salt.

[Charizard^]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

[SpAmRaY]

The CEO of Razer posted on his Facebook Page, regarding what I assume to be something about the backlash over the new switch.

https://www.facebook.com/minliangtan/posts/662065430517909?stream_ref=10

link in case anyone cares

[Hyde]

^ Can you link lit?

EDIT:  lol beat me to it.

[berserkfan]

I kinda want to buy some orange ones to switch into my QFR to try.  Will they sell the parts individually?

I really doubt it. As has already been said you're best bet will probably be getting used/defective boards on ebay.

Actually the best place for cheapo used Razer boards and PCBs is Taobao. I think they were going for 40RMB (USD8). That's one full PCB of blue switches. Presumably, when the kailh orange switches start failing, you should also be able to get a full PCB worth at 40RMB.

Suggest you pick up a board when buying something else. That way shipping is combined at your proxy shipper. It's much more worth it that way. I personally had a bad experience combining shipping with Taobaofocus, but many geekhackers are raving about these guys.