geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Firebolt1914 on Tue, 14 October 2014, 19:06:02
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I've been wondering, what do you guys look for in a keyboard? I'm fairly certain this question has been asked many times before, but what do you guys look for in a keyboard and what improvements would you want in current keyboards?
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MX clear switches
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Absence of tramp stamps
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MX clear switches
Ray is easily pleased. :))
For me, I look at form factor first, generally. If it's not at least 75%, I probably won't even consider it. If it's 60%, hells yeah. 65%? A must buy. I like Korean boards with aluminum, brass, plate-mounted, blah blah. Something simple and clean. Bluetooth is something else that I've been eyeing, recently.
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A good feel! I don't really like cheap feeling boards
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I seek the Buddha-nature and enlightenment. Kierkegaard was wrong about the "throw-ness" of objects. I find I enjoy using my Topre keyboard.
My advice to you, if you are starting to learn about keyboards, or Zen, or anything really: When you can truly let go of ego, transcending your current state, and see the world as it really is, with the perfect un-mind, you will know the usefulness of things.
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01943/thai-nuns_1943170i.jpg)
Remember, you cannot find anything while you are still looking for it.
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the cherry logo
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Hmm, I look for neat case designs and case colors that match with classic keysets. Layout must support 1.5u mods and if it has cutouts for easy switch removal and what not that's a huge bonus.
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topre and hhkb layout
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Non-ABS keycaps
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Non-ABS keycaps
that's why god invented replacement keycaps though
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Satisfying feel.
There is nothing more satisfying than buckling springs.
Light touch vs heavy - light wins
Keycap material - PBT wins
keyboard weight - heavy wins
size - personal choice - for me, large wins
KRO - depends on whether you are a gamer - overall, NKRO wins
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switch, weight, keycap material.............
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I'm a sucker for minimalism so one thing that I always like to avoid is logos. Some boards have fairly non intrusive logos like HHKP2 but pretty much all "gaming" keyboards are unbearable (visually) in my opinion.
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Form factor and regular sized keycaps.
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Switch, layout, keyboard material, price.
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I've been wondering, what do you guys look for in a keyboard? I'm fairly certain this question has been asked many times before, but what do you guys look for in a keyboard and what improvements would you want in current keyboards?
I've had many keyboards in the past, and had looked for different things during that time.
I've been a PC user for most of my computing life, but I had a laptop dominant period some years ago. That period awakened in me the search for the perfect keyboard layout, after being disappointed in laptop keyboards, but at the same time having learned that the numpad was not necessary for me. So I tried a few membrane keyboards. Of those, I particularly loved the "Logitech Netplay" (after discarding the joystick part, of course), and the "Roccat Arvo".
Lately I've come to the conclusion that TenKeyLess is the perfect layout for me.
So, I'm in a point were I'm looking for:
-key feel
-durability
I will look for durability once I settle on the best key feel for me (I have a Razer MX-compatible TKL and a full-size IBM Model M. A RealForce is in the way).
Requirements:
Layout: It has to be TKL. Not less, not more (for me). I use the navigation keys heavily, and also the F1..F12 keys.
Enter/Shift/Backspace layout: ANSI. It has to be ANSI. (even though spanish standard is ISO. So I have a harder time finding keyboards with ANSI layout, but I started with those in the 90s, and I kept going with those. All these kids nowadays started on ISO layouts. Spanish ISO layout is dumb (for me)).
Cable placement: The cable must come from the back face (centered or not centered). If it exits by the lateral sides, interfering with the mouse or trackball, it is a deal breaker.
Looking for:
Key feel: I've tried Razer Oranges and Buckling Springs. And soon I will try Topre. So, I'm still looking. So I can decide on the perfect feedback feeling and sound for me. I appreciate both light and heavy switches, both have advantages to me.
Key travel: I want full-key travel with high activation point.
Key Caps: The IBM Model M showed me that I prefer PBT key caps.
Durability: I want a keyboard that won't break or that I can mantain. For instance, I would like an MX-Compatible keyboard that had a plate that supported dissasembly of the switches without desoldering. I would love if every 5 years I could mantain my keyboard to make it look and feel good as new. Ordinary membrane keyboards after a while, fail this, because, for example, when keys start to get sticky and require different levels of force to go be pressed, it means that the ABS plastic moving parts have been worn out and will not ever slide well against each other. Though some membrane keyboards have quality sliders. Most people will never maintain their keyboards, and won't even deep clean them. Some people buy a new keyboard just because their old keyboard is too dirty. But the few of us that have the skill and patience to repair a keyboard will value repairabilty highly, and speak very positive about KBs with this trait (good-as-new-repairabilty-potential).
Things that I don't mind:
Backlight: I don't care for it (keyboards are for writing, not reading :) ). I've been typing with a Dvorak layout since the time of the Pentium III, but never re-arranged the keys, because I would loose the indicators on the F and J keys. (dvorak to me is mostly for comfort rather than speed: it made carpal tunnel syndrome pain go away. It is also fun, and feels "right").
Weight: Don't care for weight as long as it's durable.
Rubber Feet: Don't care. As long as it doesn't scratch my table, the material of the feet is not important to me. I actually like to move the keyboard a lot to adjust it to the angle I'm sitting in. That is one of the many reasons why I prefer TKL instead of full-size: because it's easier to move and handle.
Detachable cable: I don't care for detachable cables. If the connector on the keyboard size breaks, it is a hassle to find a replacement part to solder, though perhaps doable. On the other hand, a non-detachable cable is actually easier for me to crimp or solder to the keyboard if I had to replace it.
Illuminated CapsLock/ScrollLock: Don't care. I've been mapping CapsLock to ESC, which means that I never get to see the CapsLock light anyways. And though ScrollLock is useful in linux text terminals, it is replaced by CTRL+S in UI consoles anyways, which is what one uses 99.99% of the time.
Game mode: Absolutely don't care. If I want to disable the windows key, there are plenty of ways one can do this in software.
Fn key: I actually prefer it to be the Menu or Win key. Or have it optionally produce a scan code, so I can map it in software.
Programability: I'm satisfied with the existing level of programability in software. I have customized mappings in the OS to my taste (XKB & XModmap config files; KeyTweak and so on).
Macro keys: I've had them in previous keyboards, and I never used them. The F1..F12 keys have been fulfilling their role since the DOS days. Now, everyone wants to have them behave as global multimedia keys. But, function keys are supposed to mean different things in different programs (F5 means "Refresh" in browsers, and "Copy File" in dual panel file managers, and for instance, I have mapped F5/F6 as :bp and :bn in Vim's config). So the trend is to take the F* keys away from you and give them back in the form of macro keys :) while putting useless global shortcuts on them.
Multimedia keys: I have my own shortcuts that work on any keyboard. For instance, CTRL+ALT+UpArrow raises the volume globally. It can be done with one hand. Works on IBM Model M's. Otherwise I use the shortcuts specific to the player I'm using.
Face-key-roll-over: I prefer a keyboard that has 6KRO or more, but it isn't a deal breaker. NKRO is a nice extra, but hardly the reason to buy a keyboard over another (for me).
Font style in key caps: I don't care about the font, except in one case: I cannot stand even the pictures of the font used in the Deck keyboards. That terrible font is a deal breaker for me. But any other font style is fine.
PS/2: No computer made in the last ten years (or more) will be slowed down by the polling of the USB port (as opposed to PS/2 interrupts). I also would like to see a double-blind study showing people notice any difference between USB and PS/2.
USB 1000Hz vs 125Hz: Again, I would love to see a double-blind study showing that people can notice a difference. To me, they might as well claim that Reiki was performed on the keyboard prior to putting it in the box. Even if the 1ms reporting is enabled, there are other factors like de-bounce time or OS scheduling that might not make it possible for the KB to actually allow 1000 keystrokes per second (which would correspond to 12 thousand words per minute). 300wpm are 25 characters per second... 25Hz. I also think that if the controller has a buffer, it can buffer a sequence of keystrokes if they are produced together in-between polling intervals and still send them in sequence, no matter the polling rate.
Logos: If the keyboard is ANSI TKL, is maintenable&repairable, has the switches I want, and has PBT keys, then I don't mind the logo.
I realize that this post sounds like a bit of a rant on the current state of keyboards :) But it was just my perspective on the things I love and hate.
Though I wish more keyboards existed with stock PBT key caps instead of crazy backlighting, I realize that the latter is what the majority of the market seems to want right now.
Cheers!!!
.KeyHopper.
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Cheap ;)
Good contrast on the legends.
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I would first look at how heavy and how sturdy the keyboard sits on the table. Does it slide around easily? Does bend in anyway? Is it built out of quality material and assembled well?
Then get a feel for the typing experience and the gaming experience. How much height does the keyboard add to the keys? How do the stabilizers feel on the larger keys? Are any of the switches angled? How big is the space bar in units? Would I need or want a wrist rest?
Finally look at features. How programmable is it with regards to remapping keys and setting macros? How is the fn layer laid out? Are media keys supported?
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I look for a combination of three things:
1. Build quality. (Good materials, durability, feel)
2. Aesthetics. (Minimalist, good legends, colours)
3. Functionality. (Layout is super important, same as size)
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TKL or smaller is always the first consideration.
Next is build quality, things like backplates and metal cases are a plus here as well as modding potential.
Then probably aesthetics, and I'm a sucker for limited edition things too.
Next would be switch type and layout, although many boards come in a variety of flavors now.
Last would be bells and whistles, things like LEDs, programability, function layers etc.
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0. Scratch it off the list if it’s Cherry MX (I’ll make an exception for a G80-5000)
1. Cheap
2. Switches I can harvest and put in DIY projects
3. Keycaps I can harvest and put in DIY projects
Alternately: something too awesome to pass up (for instance, if you wanna sell me a beam spring board for <$50, I’ll take it.)
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Bugs and dirt, so I can clean it.
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I am a gamer so a keyboard similar a Quickfire Rapid would be awesome for me.
But with new switches. Something light (30g), short travel time (lets say 1mm) and short bottoming out (lets say 2mm), along with very quiet keys both when bottom out and releasing the keys. I believe linear are easier to press too.
Also, 1ms/1000hz, NKRO, low latency with a detachable cord and PBT caps. Waterproof would be awesome too, if it gets dirty I could just put it under tap water to clean it.
I love TKL keyboards similar to the Quickfire Rapid, I wish someone could make a keyboard that could be modified. Like if I decided to add a keypad on the side, maybe macro keys on the other side. Onboard memory so I don't have to keep the software running, Arx control just for fun. A decent wrist rest would be amazing too. RGB leds, I guess... Even though I don't use keyboard lighting, I guess it could be a selling point for gamers. Similar layout as the G910 when it comes to macro keys, I think they are well placed, but like I said, a keyboard you can modify so I can just remove the macro key or keypad part if I don't use them.
Must be sturdy too with good rubber feet so it doesnt slide around. Easy to remove casing if someone decides to keep it simple like the Monoprice Cherry MX red keyboard.
But that keyboard doesnt exist yet, so I have to settle for a CM Quickfire TK as for now. Maybe Ducky later if they are higher quality than the CM keyboards? Maybe I will try the G910?
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ErgoDox
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1) How much space it's gonna take up
2) Functions
-fn layer?
-volume controls?
3) Programmable?
4) Aesthetically nice and good looking (to me)?
5) Standard layout? (ANSI 125, ANSI 150 etc)
So I settled for a poker 2 :D
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Perfection.
When I don't find it I look for a board with these as my criteria in order of importance:
Layout: Usually can't be changed easily, so it has to be right. Usually 60% or ergo.
Features: Again, not easy to change, so the board must have the right features. Really good Fn layer layout or programmable, removable cable, aluminium case compatible. Plate mounted or supports aftermarket plate to be added.
Switch type: Can be changed easily enough (with soldering) so it's not as important. Clears when possible.
Keycaps: Easy to change and in most cases I will swap them to better ones, so not very important unless they're really nice. Thick POM if I can get it.
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1. Has to feel heavy- absolutely essential
2. Minimalist form- no weird jagged edges or curves around the sides of the board
3. TKL or 60/65% layout
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Mainly if it's comfortable to use. Of course, preferably no company branding all over the board. Found that in a Poker ii with MX Clears recently.
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I've got my perfect setup for typing so nowadays I just look for unique items, JD40/ergodox. I'm really looking forward to the planck
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Customizability above all else. If I can change the switches, plates, case etc. that's all I need
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TKL or smaller layout (only applies to Cherry MX boards).
CLICKINESS!
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Customizability above all else. If I can change the switches, plates, case etc. that's all I need. But preferably 60%, some MX switch
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Although my preferences with switches come and go the one constant is profile/typing height. I prefer a thinner mechanical keyboard that is very close to your average rubber dome. I know you can use a wrist rest but I prefer not to use one.
For this reason the Cherry G80-3850, IBM M2, and Topre TypeHeaven are my favorite boards from those respective switch types. Matias is coming out with a 60%/87 Tenkeyless that is supposed to be as thin as possible and those will probably end up being my favorite Alps boards.
Another thing I prefer is a hardwired cable. Not only do I have no use for detachable cables but every board I've tried that has them has had extremely poor stops in the channel to prevent the cable from eventually popping out for no good reason.
I'd say those two are the top tier things I look for.
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I look for buckling spring or sphericals.
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I'm still relatively a newbie so I look for anything I don't have (red/blue/brown full-sized keyboards). I have a variable topre on the way, and I'm looking into a TKL or maybe even 60% since I really don't need the numpad at home and it'd be more comfortable for gaming. Really undecided about what types of switch I want to go with though. I'm interested in trying out the matias keys and ergo clears have me interested.
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Right now the first thing I look at is switches for harvesting just because I have a few boards incoming/planned builds (some long term). Though if I was in the market for something new, the first thing I would look at is layout. Standard TKL ANSI would be my preference at the moment even though I currently have 2 full sized (third gen Das, and a Rosewill). The second is it has to have a steel or stainless plate. The one exception here is the Ti Smallfry board I am in for with Mkawa. After that I don't look at a lot. Though really odd vintage boards still hold a special place for me.
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Absence of tramp stamps
I see what you did there...:rolleyes:
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First off, a good form factor. I've been getting progressively smaller, from fullsize, to slightly less, then TKL, 65%, and now 60%. From here, I'd probably want something 65% to TKL, preferably with arrow keys (my gripe with the HHKB) and a convenient FN layer. Then, something I couldn't find on any board besides a TK, routing that comes right out of the side of the board so it doesn't get damaged by being pushed against my laptop, special features (volume wheels are cool, so is backlighting), and, of course, switch feel. I like Topre, silenced or regular, and tactile MX switches, but not Greens/Blacks, but Clears seem really nice, especially ergo clears.
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I've been wondering, what do you guys look for in a keyboard? I'm fairly certain this question has been asked many times before, but what do you guys look for in a keyboard and what improvements would you want in current keyboards?
I've had many keyboards in the past, and had looked for different things during that time.
I've been a PC user for most of my computing life, but I had a laptop dominant period some years ago. That period awakened in me the search for the perfect keyboard layout, after being disappointed in laptop keyboards, but at the same time having learned that the numpad was not necessary for me. So I tried a few membrane keyboards. Of those, I particularly loved the "Logitech Netplay" (after discarding the joystick part, of course), and the "Roccat Arvo".
Lately I've come to the conclusion that TenKeyLess is the perfect layout for me.
So, I'm in a point were I'm looking for:
-key feel
-durability
Since availability isn't an issue for you, I recommend a vintage hall effect keyboard. They are rated for 30 billion keystrokes and will likely last many decades. They key feel is very linear, and is truly in the uppermost echelons of linear switch designs. Since there is absolutely no contact, you are just pushing on a spring.
Right now the first thing I look at is switches for harvesting just because I have a few boards incoming/planned builds (some long term).
Oh man, I have totally been there. Then I had too many switches and I didn't know what to do and sold some. Now I need more again :p
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I've been wondering, what do you guys look for in a keyboard? I'm fairly certain this question has been asked many times before, but what do you guys look for in a keyboard and what improvements would you want in current keyboards?
I've had many keyboards in the past, and had looked for different things during that time.
I've been a PC user for most of my computing life, but I had a laptop dominant period some years ago. That period awakened in me the search for the perfect keyboard layout, after being disappointed in laptop keyboards, but at the same time having learned that the numpad was not necessary for me. So I tried a few membrane keyboards. Of those, I particularly loved the "Logitech Netplay" (after discarding the joystick part, of course), and the "Roccat Arvo".
Lately I've come to the conclusion that TenKeyLess is the perfect layout for me.
So, I'm in a point were I'm looking for:
-key feel
-durability
Since availability isn't an issue for you, I recommend a vintage hall effect keyboard. They are rated for 30 billion keystrokes and will likely last many decades. They key feel is very linear, and is truly in the uppermost echelons of linear switch designs. Since there is absolutely no contact, you are just pushing on a spring.
Right now the first thing I look at is switches for harvesting just because I have a few boards incoming/planned builds (some long term).
Oh man, I have totally been there. Then I had too many switches and I didn't know what to do and sold some. Now I need more again :p
I've been looking for a Hall Effect Keyboard for a while now...
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I've been wondering, what do you guys look for in a keyboard? I'm fairly certain this question has been asked many times before, but what do you guys look for in a keyboard and what improvements would you want in current keyboards?
I've had many keyboards in the past, and had looked for different things during that time.
I've been a PC user for most of my computing life, but I had a laptop dominant period some years ago. That period awakened in me the search for the perfect keyboard layout, after being disappointed in laptop keyboards, but at the same time having learned that the numpad was not necessary for me. So I tried a few membrane keyboards. Of those, I particularly loved the "Logitech Netplay" (after discarding the joystick part, of course), and the "Roccat Arvo".
Lately I've come to the conclusion that TenKeyLess is the perfect layout for me.
So, I'm in a point were I'm looking for:
-key feel
-durability
Since availability isn't an issue for you, I recommend a vintage hall effect keyboard. They are rated for 30 billion keystrokes and will likely last many decades. They key feel is very linear, and is truly in the uppermost echelons of linear switch designs. Since there is absolutely no contact, you are just pushing on a spring.
[..]
Niceee!
I'll pay some attention to hall effect keyboards!!
Currently I'm obsessed with TKL keyboards, I don't suppose a TKL hall effect KB was ever manufactured?
On the (off)topic of durability:
It's not that I don't want my stuff to ever break. Instead I just want to be able to fix it.
I know: maybe I'll get bored and buy new products anyways. Maybe technology improves enough to justify an upgrade.
But I know plenty of people that will appreciate something that works for whom that is way more than enough, to whom I can sell or hand my old stuff.
I just don't enjoy throwing stuff out (hoarder alert! hahahaha :) )
I also don't enjoy having some piece of electronics that I love break on me without a possible fix, and find that it isn't being manufactured anymore.
For example, I don't throw out mice/trackballs when the buttons start to double-click on their own or not complete a drag&drop action. I instead have been soldering replacement button switches on them. I do hate when they use button switches that are hard to obtain.
I don't take extra care of my things. I just try to fix them when they break. I always learn something new when I do. I like the process, finding the parts, buying new tools if I have to, etc. I don't always succeed, and I don't always have the time or patience. I also don't advocate that everyone should do the same. I don't care. If the everyone in the world behaved the way I do, I don't think E-Waste would be solved, instead the only thing different would be that everyone in the world would be a huge nerd (and type in Dvorak! :), also, everyone would be a terrible cook).
I'm currently enjoying my newly arrived RealForce 55g and... it's great! I love it!!!! But I would love it more if Topre decided to sell replacement rubber sheets though. I'm not sure that a RealForce can reach the 20year mark and be made good as new the way that an IBM Model M/F can.
I have a Technics sinto-amplifier, it sounds great and I like it... its 34 years old. I'm not the first owner, I bought it from a friend about 16 years ago.
A few years after I bought it, it blew one channel of the huge TDA hybrid IC (someone shorted the outputs while it was ON by reconnecting the speakers for an instant). It was easy for me to find a replacement TDA and solder it. New amps have better short protection, but they are also harder to repair (or impossible), and they are mostly cheap shhstuff.
Why can't all electronics be like that Technics amp?? Granted, the amp is just stereo, not 5.1, no optical input. And of course it doesn't have a remote or wifi, so I can't send tracks directly from my cellphone. But I can plug it to a PC and play from there. New ones have more features, but! this one works and sounds great, and even better than most. The speakers are superb too.
I'll replace my Technics amp when I get bored with it, not when it breaks. :) :)
Cheers!
.KeyHopper.
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a)Heavy and grippy
b)CLEARS!
c)Get that numpad off my keyboard ya hear :cool:
d)I really love but don't need media FN keys
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I look for something that looks semi-decent, works, can't be rubber dome/MX grey/green alps/white alps, and it has to be able to withstand my constant smashing of the mouse up against the corner of the keyboard while playing FPS games with turtle mouse sensitivity.