Author Topic: The Living Soldering Thread  (Read 1855004 times)

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1600 on: Mon, 30 December 2013, 21:57:43 »
to truly repair a lifted pad like that, be it a thru-hole or an smt pad, a rework plant would epoxy a new pad to that spot using fine tweezers, lots of magnification and a steady hand. that said, generally the easiest way to repair lifted pads is to expose some copper trace nearby, tin that and solder a fine 26 or 28ga wire to it then head on over to where you need to get the current to. copper tape (or as hasu would say, cupper tape :D) with conductive acrylic adhesive is also an option but you have to be very careful with soldering to it as the acrylic adhesive will melt quickly and your iron will take the tape with it.

generally, for any very tricky rework, the answer is a) hot air, b) find another place that is electrically connected to the place you screwed up, c) give up!

i use tactic c quite a bit.

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Offline dragonxx21

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1601 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 00:11:51 »
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==
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Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1602 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 00:30:33 »
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

I just checked and Abra does not have the right ones.  Not sure, I will let you know if I come up with somewhere...

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1603 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 00:50:16 »
how about newark/element13? they're actually UK based and probably have a CA warehouse..

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Offline dragonxx21

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1604 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:08:19 »
how about newark/element13? they're actually UK based and probably have a CA warehouse..
Newark/element14 seems to have a minimum order of 3000.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1605 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:13:09 »
yeeeurgghhh

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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1606 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:14:03 »
wait! aha! i have a package for you that _has not gone out_. PM me!

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Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1607 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:18:47 »
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1608 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 03:01:19 »
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-0805-1uf-25V-10-X7R-CERAMIC-MLCC-CAPACITOR-VJ0805Y104KXXAMT-VITRAMON-/111047522958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19daf2ba8e

would this be along the lines of what I'm looking for?
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Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1609 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 07:01:43 »
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-0805-1uf-25V-10-X7R-CERAMIC-MLCC-CAPACITOR-VJ0805Y104KXXAMT-VITRAMON-/111047522958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19daf2ba8e

would this be along the lines of what I'm looking for?

Anything here will work, just go with whatever is cheapest total to ship..

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1610 on: Tue, 31 December 2013, 15:43:33 »
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-0805-1uf-25V-10-X7R-CERAMIC-MLCC-CAPACITOR-VJ0805Y104KXXAMT-VITRAMON-/111047522958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19daf2ba8e

would this be along the lines of what I'm looking for?

Anything here will work, just go with whatever is cheapest total to ship..

Is it fine to use third party brands?
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Offline phatdood9

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1611 on: Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:26:10 »
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:

Offline kolonelkadat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1612 on: Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:46:07 »
aim brand no-clean version
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=aim+solder+paste

I wouldnt buy from amazon/ebay. solder paste doesnt have a long shelf life. like 4 months tops really. best to get it from a reputable dealer.
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Offline phatdood9

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1613 on: Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:54:38 »
just placed an order from mouser/digikey a couple days ago too  ;D

thanks, gonna grab a tube

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1614 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 16:04:46 »
How worthwhile is it to get tin tipper over using solder to tin your tip?
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Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1615 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 16:47:50 »
How worthwhile is it to get tin tipper over using solder to tin your tip?

hopefully someone can give some feedback on this because I have wondered the same thing.  I always just use solder to tin my tips...

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1616 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 21:24:34 »
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste. a small stainless steel probe or the fine tip of a spudger can be used to lay it down on traces for hot air.

i believe, but am not sure, that tip tinners are usually significantly more corrosive than solder. as an example, kester 44 actually comes in a wide range of flux formulas, from those that are basically inert, to those that are only very mildly corrosive, all the way up to what are basically organic solvents (usually halides) in the center of the drawn wire. if you know you are only going to be tinning a tip with a particular bowl of solder, you can change the flux formula to one that is ridiculously corrosive, and ta-da, clean tip every time!

personally, i prefer ye olde scrubbing and just using lots of fresh activated rosin (aka RA) and solder to tin my tips. once upon a time, i used a much more corrosive flux and various old school multicore solders that were very very corrosive, and in retrospect i actually had more oxidization and trouble with my tips then, because a) they were kind of junky compared to what i use now -- sorry VERY junky --, and b) i didn't use them enough or keep good control of my tip temperature. i would crank everything up to 11 when i wanted heat and then back off a little after i'd made a joint.

now, i tend to just keep the RA flowing, and have a good rhythm that keeps my tip temp fairly steady; even if i were using my old setup, it would be much more stable now (which is of course the point of not starting to solder with the fanciest thing around. you build bad habits quite quickly).

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Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1617 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 21:40:49 »
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste.

Would I be able to get the same effect without actually using a mortar and pestle by just sticking a glob of flux on the end of my solder wire and then bringing the solder down over the top of my tip?  I feel like that would be a lot less work for the same effect, but maybe I am just crazy...

Offline kolonelkadat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1618 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 21:51:04 »
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste.

Would I be able to get the same effect without actually using a mortar and pestle by just sticking a glob of flux on the end of my solder wire and then bringing the solder down over the top of my tip?  I feel like that would be a lot less work for the same effect, but maybe I am just crazy...
lol wut? no. solder paste is small balls of solder suspended in whatever flux concoction. What you suggest would simply boil away the flux before it had a chance to do its job. if you dont want to use solder paste, you can always hand solder.


How worthwhile is it to get tin tipper over using solder to tin your tip?
what is tin tipper? Ive never heard of it. Google says its toy trucks.

Just use RA core solder and youll be fine.
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Offline swill

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1619 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:07:22 »
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste.

Would I be able to get the same effect without actually using a mortar and pestle by just sticking a glob of flux on the end of my solder wire and then bringing the solder down over the top of my tip?  I feel like that would be a lot less work for the same effect, but maybe I am just crazy...
lol wut? no. solder paste is small balls of solder suspended in whatever flux concoction. What you suggest would simply boil away the flux before it had a chance to do its job. if you dont want to use solder paste, you can always hand solder.

Sorry I was confusing solder paste with flux.  My bad, I'm a noob...  :)  Not sure how my thought process is different from just using RA core solder which you are suggesting though.  I have been using RA core solder to tin my tips and I am happy with the result, so I guess you have a point.  :)

Offline kolonelkadat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1620 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:33:17 »
Sorry I was confusing solder paste with flux.  My bad, I'm a noob...  :)  Not sure how my thought process is different from just using RA core solder which you are suggesting though.  I have been using RA core solder to tin my tips and I am happy with the result, so I guess you have a point.  :)

solder paste is for smt soldering in a reflow oven. it has nothing to do with soldering irons. Im sorry if my post was confusing
« Last Edit: Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:35:30 by kolonelkadat »
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1621 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:33:39 »
Got rid of some stuff that hasn't passed the muster, added things that have popped up that are good and edited layout of op a bit.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1622 on: Thu, 02 January 2014, 23:05:26 »
Sorry I was confusing solder paste with flux.  My bad, I'm a noob...  :)  Not sure how my thought process is different from just using RA core solder which you are suggesting though.  I have been using RA core solder to tin my tips and I am happy with the result, so I guess you have a point.  :)

solder paste is for smt soldering in a reflow oven. it has nothing to do with soldering irons. Im sorry if my post was confusing

or with hot air. a reflow oven is basically just a clean convection oven. hence you can get the same effect out of a hand-tool by directing the hot air to the pasty joints.

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Offline cirrus82

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1623 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:12:02 »
Does anyone have thoughts regarding the Weller WX1?

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1624 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:16:47 »
Does anyone have thoughts regarding the Weller WX1?
YUCK

that's all i've got.

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Offline cirrus82

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1625 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:22:40 »
Does anyone have thoughts regarding the Weller WX1?
YUCK

that's all i've got.

Because of how it looks or is it just sucky?  I might be able to get one that's pretty new for half off... not worth it?

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1626 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 13:03:52 »
ridiculously high power with a very very tiny tip is exactly the opposite of how hand soldering should be done. you only technically need 30W of power flowing through your tip to solder like any joint at all in anything but like huge brazed pipes. it's all about surface area. a watt is actually a time denominational unit. one watt is one joule of energy per sec. however, you can only fit so many joules through any given thermal path. the number of joules per unit time is dependent on the surface area of the contact patch. hence, want to solder a big fat joint? put a big fat tip on your low power (so that you don't burn anything) heater. want to solder very small things? put a smaller tip on your low power heater. in the former case you'll flow the maximum amount of energy per unit time. in the latter case, you can titrate the amount of power that flows through the joint and hence the heat of the joint.

and this brings up a very very important distinction. fixed temperature irons only aim to regulate the temperature of the TIP. they don't say anything about how hot the joint will get. so if you have a 200W heater, and you shove 200j/s into a very small joint (say with a properly sized tip), you will burn the crap out of whatever you're soldering.

the weller wx line is basically designed for sell sheet numbers and cosmetics. it is not a good iron, even if you are an expert solderer.

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Offline cirrus82

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1627 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 13:19:30 »
Awesome information, thank you!

Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1628 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 14:10:07 »
So the WX1/2 system has had me eyebrow raising, although I haven't tried it myself (yet?). Although the temperature is variable, it's only variable depending on the attached pencil, of which there are, wait for it - /FIVE/. 40, 65, 80, 120, and 200 watts, each with different tip lineups. WTF.

One possible reason for this, of course, is that they don't use integrated heaters in the tips like most other high end soldering stations. With the heater in the iron itself, and the high power potential of the station, this would provide for too much temperature variance at the tip itself based on thermal masses of the tip and piece that you're soldering. So I'm guessing that they went with this option because they didn't have much of a choice unless they redesign their entire system.

The downsides that this presents are basically that the costs involved of getting the station plus the power potential irons that one would like can get fairly ridiculous. Temperature stability is not very good due to sensor being down in the heater instead of at the tip. On the plus side, the heat up times and thermal recovery are going to be pretty damn good (under 3 sec from what I've seen) due to the massive (potential) power output of the station, and the station itself probably has the most amount of easily accessible features (with a proper GUI to boot) that I've ever seen in its price range. Automatic sleep mode with accelerometer in particular is very nifty. In addition, because the tips are 'dumb', their prices will generally be slightly cheaper than that of those with integrated heaters.

So on the whole, I'd say it's worth a try especially if it's used under $200 or so, comes with the 80 or 120 watt iron (most tip options on these), and the stand. At that price it could be flipped on ebay easily at a slighly higher price if it doesn't meet your needs.

Offline cirrus82

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1629 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 14:31:45 »
I think he said it came with the 65 watt iron and a small 0.25 mm round tip.

This site claims the sensor is in the "pencil" (iron):
http://www.apexhandtools.com/weller/np_industrial.cfm

Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1630 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 14:52:59 »
The 65 watt one doesn't have much options in terms of tips - you can see http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/tips_pricelist.htm#XNT_Series_ for the list. Only cylindrical and chisel options are provided in small sizes, so for typical soldering you'd only use the larger chisels, as I wouldn't recommend pointy geometries. Decent choice for SMT, but I'd prefer at least one more hoof tip size option (gull wing in weller terms) for soldering QFPs and such. But those are apparently one tip per soldering pencil type for some reason anyway. So it's a bit limiting in that regard.

And yeah, that's what I meant - the sensor is next to the heater which is in the pencil. Oddly I don't quite see replacement heaters for these pencils - either they are certain of their extensive lifetime, or they expect you to replace the entire pencil if it burns out. Hmm. Worth further research.

Depends on price, I suppose.

Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1631 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:01:03 »
So looking at their updated brochure at http://www.apexhandtools.com/weller/PDFs/Weller%20WX%20brochure%20US.pdf I see that the XNT tip line (for the 65w pencil) has a number more tips than what some store catalogs indicate. The lineup looks much better there, but actual availability of said tips may be questionable due to newness and such.

As such, I'd be be leaning towards recommending the 65w, but it still all depends on the price that you're getting of course.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1632 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:13:39 »
If you want a Weller, I would go with the WES51/WESD51 or the WTCPT.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1633 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:27:48 »
the WES51 is a proven tool that has built many things that you might very well be using right now for the last 15-25 years or so. i would go with that if you want to go weller.

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Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1634 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 16:28:47 »
The problem with the older Weller units is that they're pretty dated by soldering standards. In my eyes, heatup times of anything more than 10 seconds is unacceptable, and the older Wellers approach a minute, which is more the area of chinese knockoff stations and the like. I'm quite brand agnostic otherwise, having had some major brand as well as various chinese stations on my bench.

My primary considerations, in no specific order are:

  • Heatup time of 10 seconds or less
  • Wide choice of inexpensive tips for both SMD and TH soldering($10 per tip or less ideally)
  • Having automatic sleep functionality (saves tip plating and increases lifetime)
  • A nice heavy and solid stand
  • Handle that doesn't heat up after prolonged use
  • Short handle to tip working distance
  • Ability for me to grab it used on ebay or elsewhere at a significant savings compared to typical retail (ideally around 75% savings usually)

So there's definitely much better options at the around $100 level than buying a new WES51. Just over this weekend I saw some perfectly normal Metcal units with pencils going for $100 with free shipping that nobody was pouncing on..

Offline cirrus82

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1635 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:04:14 »
I was going to get the whole set for $250.  I need to do some research into availability of the other XNT tips, seems like this might be too much of a hassle, especially if there's a no brainer "good" solution for $250 or less.

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1636 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:33:03 »
The edsyn 951sx would be my answer.  It's like 170 direct through edsyn right now and there's myriad tips you can get for it as well.  There's a generational replacement for it coming soon called the 951sxe, but there's no hard release date on it currently. mkawa can probably tell you the differences between the two better than I.

Offline mkawa

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1637 on: Wed, 08 January 2014, 23:43:24 »
yes, i can get you a small discount on the 951sx. it is a very beefy station and one that i recommend as a workhorse station and as a competitor to the metcals of the world. the 951sxe has been announced but is not shipping yet and probably won't be for a while. between the two, i would recommend the the sx over the e.

re: parak's comments, one thing to remember about production line stations, which the wes51, metcals and edsyns all fall under is that they're designed to be on basically 24/7. one particular point i take issue with which considers this is time from off to op temp. it is simply irrelevant in a production environment as long as thermal recovery is excellent. the iron is never turned off, so why would the line manager care how long it takes to go from off to op. what does matter is standby, comfort when the heater has been on for the last 24 hours, and heater lifetime, as those are the most expensive consumables of any soldering unit. these stations are all excellent as far as those metrics are concerned.

finally, i want to make one argument against parak's suggestions which is that SMT parts more complex than simple passives should really just be worked with hot air. it's the safest, simplest way to deal with them, and allows proper SMD layouts. instead of some DIY boards that have a little SMD segment where they couldn't find a DIP package for the parts they wanted and then a vast expanse of thru-holes.

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Offline bpiphany

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1638 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 01:49:49 »
I don't have much experience with soldering stations, but I really like my WMRP =) https://www.google.se/search?q=weller+wd1000m&tbm=isch

Offline Parak

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1639 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 11:19:18 »
re: parak's comments, one thing to remember about production line stations, which the wes51, metcals and edsyns all fall under is that they're designed to be on basically 24/7. one particular point i take issue with which considers this is time from off to op temp. it is simply irrelevant in a production environment as long as thermal recovery is excellent. the iron is never turned off, so why would the line manager care how long it takes to go from off to op. what does matter is standby, comfort when the heater has been on for the last 24 hours, and heater lifetime, as those are the most expensive consumables of any soldering unit. these stations are all excellent as far as those metrics are concerned.

Well, for production soldering the WES51 as an example is pretty subpar by modern standards. Continuous soldering eats tips all the time, and the tip replacement procedure on WES51 is pretty dated. Compare that to Oki MFR-2220 for example, where the pencil allows for not only quick change of tips by using a silicone holder, but also of the entire heater coil by simple unclipping and sliding in a new one. The tip cost is lower in such a unit because it's a 'dumb' tip, too. Of course, most other Metcal/Oki units are even better suited in this regard where the heater is in the tip (at a slightly higher per tip cost) - just grab the tip with the holder, slide it out, and slide in a new one. Not to mention the other modern conveniences like automatic sleep in cradle and temperature in the tip for better thermal control.

Thermal recovery however has direct correlation with heatup time. It's fairly simple - the tip itself has a certain amount of thermal mass that needs to be brought up to a specified temperature, which takes a certain amount of time. Suppose that we set a station to 350c, and on initial powerup it takes X time to go from 20-150c, Y time to go from 150-325c, and Z time to go from 325-350c. Any sort of soldering applies extra (and cooler) thermal mass and drops the temperature of the tip, where for convenience let's say that it's by 25 degrees C. The recovery back to 350c is still going to take Z time. So, a soldering station that can reach the overall target temperature quicker from being cold is still going to be able to keep it up faster as well, reducing thermal stress on the tips in the process.

finally, i want to make one argument against parak's suggestions which is that SMT parts more complex than simple passives should really just be worked with hot air. it's the safest, simplest way to deal with them, and allows proper SMD layouts. instead of some DIY boards that have a little SMD segment where they couldn't find a DIP package for the parts they wanted and then a vast expanse of thru-holes.

I'm not suggesting that one should try to hand solder 0201 or XSON packages, but larger sized passives, SOP, QFP, and other leaded surface mounted packages are quite solderable by hand given a good iron with a proper tip and technique as demonstrated in many guides and videos. For basic soldering of a board here and there using such parts is reasonable to not have to resort to buying custom stencils, paste, dedicated hot air and/or reflow oven, and so on. In fact drag soldering in such circumstances can sometimes be faster and safer than hot air, which can potentially warp the pcb or kill the chip if used improperly.
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 January 2014, 11:23:35 by Parak »

Offline dorkvader

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1640 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 18:27:40 »
re: parak's comments, one thing to remember about production line stations, which the wes51, metcals and edsyns all fall under is that they're designed to be on basically 24/7. one particular point i take issue with which considers this is time from off to op temp. it is simply irrelevant in a production environment as long as thermal recovery is excellent. the iron is never turned off, so why would the line manager care how long it takes to go from off to op. what does matter is standby, comfort when the heater has been on for the last 24 hours, and heater lifetime, as those are the most expensive consumables of any soldering unit. these stations are all excellent as far as those metrics are concerned.
While I dont disagree with any of this, I would like to point out that OKI/metcal use the short heatup time as a selling point: They say that since it heats up quickly, you can turn it off when you go on your 30 minute break. This should extend tip life, among other things.

I left the iron on once and oxidized a brand new tip. Much sadness ensued until I bought a new one. Eventually, I'll try to repair it with something, but the last time I bought what I thought was a bottle of flux on mouser: turns out it was a bottle of something else, and was unsuitable as flux.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1641 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:14:27 »
Does anyone have recommendations for a decent multimeter for under $30, if such a thing can be found?  There seem to be a lot on Amazon for that range, but it's difficult to say which are good and which are not so good.  I started reading reviews on one that had a 4.2 out of 5 overall rating, and apparently it has a lot of issues at the same time.

I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1642 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:23:03 »
Does anyone have recommendations for a decent multimeter for under $30, if such a thing can be found?  There seem to be a lot on Amazon for that range, but it's difficult to say which are good and which are not so good.  I started reading reviews on one that had a 4.2 out of 5 overall rating, and apparently it has a lot of issues at the same time.

I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.

I have used a $5 DMM from Harbor Freight. It doesn't need a lot of functions at that price, nor does it need to last that long. You can just buy another. :)

Before that I used a $20 analog meter from Radio Shack.
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Offline kolonelkadat

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1643 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:33:28 »
I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.
as long as you know its cheap and you know not to trust it, most any one will be fine for generall faffing around. just dont expect it to be accurate to more than 1 digit.

they dont really seem to be any good below about 50usd imo
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1644 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:48:19 »
Looking at this little guy:
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-MN35-Digital-Mini-MultiMeter/dp/B0012VWR20

Extech MN35.  Reviews seem pretty good in terms of accuracy.
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1645 on: Thu, 09 January 2014, 22:52:17 »
Does anyone have recommendations for a decent multimeter for under $30, if such a thing can be found?  There seem to be a lot on Amazon for that range, but it's difficult to say which are good and which are not so good.  I started reading reviews on one that had a 4.2 out of 5 overall rating, and apparently it has a lot of issues at the same time.

I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.

If you're just using it to check continuity, it really doesn't need to be great at all.  And even checking resistors and whatnot, in most cases you won't need much accuracy (you might need to find something on the order of 700ohm, but whether it's 690 or 710 doesn't matter in most cases - like LEDs).  So like others are saying, you can probably get by with something cheap if you're just trying to put together basic things and you don't need incredible accuracy.

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1646 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 08:10:58 »
Looking at this little guy:
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-MN35-Digital-Mini-MultiMeter/dp/B0012VWR20

Extech MN35.  Reviews seem pretty good in terms of accuracy.

http://www.bdent.com/byte-brothers-bbt858l-digital-multimeter.html

^^ Don't know if that one is any good but it goes on sale for a little cheaper every once in a while.

Offline hasu

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1647 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 08:58:59 »
Continuity test is the most useful and often used function in my case. The fast response of buzzer is critical, this criterion comes first to me. Some cheap DMMs will have the proper function and no doubt $10 DMM is enough good for keyboard job. I have used $10 DMM for several years and had no problem.

But I guess you may get Fluke in the end after watching Dave's videoes :)

Offline bpiphany

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1648 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 09:43:42 »
The nice thing with expensive DMMs is that the buzzer latches. No low and noisy buzzing like a bumble bee, instead a loud and clear BEEEEEP. That said, just about every DMM I've seen has a beepy continuity test.

There are other features on more expensive DMMs that can be useful as well, in addition to being sturdier, safer, feeling higher quality. Just the other day I used the min/max function for the first time finding out the max voltage generated in a coil when we threw a magnet past it. True RMS can be interesting as well. Come to think about it, the frequency and duty cycle function is pretty useful as well...

With that said, a $20 DMM will get you very far. The fancy features may cost more than they taste.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: The Living Soldering Thread
« Reply #1649 on: Fri, 10 January 2014, 10:50:45 »
Thanks for everyone's comments!  I ended up getting that Extech MN35 from mouser (it's $20 there) eBay: $17 shipped!
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 January 2014, 11:17:21 by Photoelectric »
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