Author Topic: Just another 4704 107 thread  (Read 11248 times)

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Offline 0100010

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Just another 4704 107 thread
« on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 21:00:26 »
I am terrible with taking before / during / after pictures; plus you guys have seen plenty of Model F rebuild threads.  I am still in the middle my rebuild on my 4704 107 board - but I figured it couldn't hurt to put up a couple pics.  It was sandblasted / powder coated last week in RAL 1013 "Oyster" (top case, bottom case and the barrel frame).





This is a new sticker courtesy of wcass (it has a couple bubbles under it, thinking about replacing it):


I used heatshrink on the Model F spacebar wire to thicken the ends to fit on the Model M spacebar, which I am putting just about all new keys on it from Unicomp.  It is being converted to ANSI, well as close to ANSI as I can get it.

Right now just waiting on one of xwhatsits controllers to arrive.  While waiting I think I have gone through 3 different types of foam for the barrels (2mm craft foam, 3mm craft foam and 1/4" thick 'automotive headliner' foam).  Headliner is on it now, trying to decide which foam gives me the best key feel.  I don't have a leather punch either, it takes a while to cut out all those circles with a razor.

Sorry if the images are poor quality - I'm not a camera / lighting person.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:26:06 »
beautiful!

Will you get blockers for the 2 missing keys near the arrowkey area? What about vertical stabilizers for the tenkey?

Liking the layout, mine will likely be similar.

Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:34:01 »
You can never have enough 4704 restoration threads.  I mean never.  I would look and read all day if I could.  Also that powder coating looks absolutely beautiful.  Please take more pictures as you progress.  I know I will with mine.  Also what color keycaps did you get from Unicomp.  Wondering this as I will want to order some myself when I get started.


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Offline The_Beast

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:38:37 »
Looks great! Did the powder coating retain some of the original texture of the case?
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:53:23 »
beautiful!

Will you get blockers for the 2 missing keys near the arrowkey area? What about vertical stabilizers for the tenkey?

Liking the layout, mine will likely be similar.

Was just going to put blank pearl keys on the two empty barrels above the arrow keys for now.  There are black stab inserts in the numpad area for the Enter and + keys (just hard to see them in the pics).
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:56:09 »
You can never have enough 4704 restoration threads.  I mean never.  I would look and read all day if I could.  Also that powder coating looks absolutely beautiful.  Please take more pictures as you progress.  I know I will with mine.  Also what color keycaps did you get from Unicomp.  Wondering this as I will want to order some myself when I get started.

Standard pearl / pebble 101 key set, plus 7x (large) spacbar, pebble Menu, Fn, Win, media keys and a front function printed number row.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:58:08 »
Looks great! Did the powder coating retain some of the original texture of the case?

Nope, it is very smooth now, the sandblasting got it down to bare metal first.  Textured powder coating is available, just more expensive.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 23:09:40 »
Looks great! (Though I must admit, I like CptBadass’s powder-coat color choice – bright purple – a bit better :P)
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 October 2014, 23:12:03 by jacobolus »

Offline snoopy

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 03:37:12 »
very nice! looking forward to more pics and build process :)

Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 08:49:21 »
Uno mas - threw the keys on it.

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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 09:57:03 »
Beautiful.  What do you plan on using for F1-Fx keys?


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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 10:18:44 »
Beautiful.  What do you plan on using for F1-Fx keys?

The function legends (F1-F12) are front printed on the number row (can't really see them in that pic though).
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 28 October 2014, 10:22:18 »
Beautiful.  What do you plan on using for F1-Fx keys?

The function legends (F1-F12) are front printed on the number row (can't really see them in that pic though).

Now that you mention it, I can.  Also in hind-sight it was a dumb question because you mentioned that in your post about what keys you ordered.


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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 03 November 2014, 21:23:26 »
Controller arrived today.  Soldered it in with some creative mounting so the header pins would clear one of the plate assembly tabs.



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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 09:56:48 »
Finally finished up this board last night - which was to complete the USB cable and add rubber feet.  Brought it into the office today to set it up in its permanent home, as my new daily driver.



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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 10:01:13 »
It's beautiful!. Do you have any pictures of the rubber feet? How did final assembly go.  Also I can't remember if you said what foam you used.  Sorry for all of the questions


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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 10:28:35 »
They are just squarish clear rubber stick on feet that I got from Lowes.  Thicker/larger ones in the back and smaller/thinner ones in the front (something like this - http://www.lowes.com/pd_55660-255-4215495N_0__?productId=3034874&Ntt=waxman+bumper&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dwaxman%2Bbumper&facetInfo= though they had a larger selection in the store).

The final foam I ended up with was 1/4" headliner foam from a local fabric store - it came on a 54" wide roll, of which I bought one foot.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 11:26:30 »
These are the rubber feet I used.  Two large ones, with two small ones on top in the back, and then two small ones near the front (just enough to keep the bottom front edge of the board from touching the desk).

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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 11:28:13 »
Yeah


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 11:29:29 »
Oops last post was Support to be a text. At any rate thx.  I mightiest to find something similar at Menards.


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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 11:30:20 »
Any chance of audio including the speaker. Curious if it sounds the same as a just saved.


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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 11:35:40 »
Huh?
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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 11:57:33 »
First I apologize for the weird post, autocorrect.  Do you have the beeper functioning.  If so I was wondering if you would be kind enough to post some audio of it in action.


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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 14:59:33 »
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 15:00:47 »
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 16:39:57 »
Let’s inline the video!

Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 22:16:27 »
General comments about this re-build process (after it is all done) :

Disassembly and Cleaning
This board wasn't all that dirty originally - standard board chow under the keys, oil buildup on the keys.  The keys cleaned right up soaking in water with detergent - came out looking brand new.  I spent more time rinsing and drying them than it took soaking them to get off the years of grime.  The case had a few scuffs in the paint, and quite a bit of ink marks.  It was my inability to effectively clean the paint, the led to my desire to get it powder coated.  The bottom plate and barrel frame were in pretty good condition, only a few small spots of rust.  I did notice that two of the screws were cross threaded as well.  I think the longest part of the cleanup was scrubbing the outsides of the barrels clean with and old toothbrush.

I did make it a point to remove the PCB from the bottom plate and remove the plastic sheet on the back of the PCB, so I could fully inspect the PCB.  I wiped down everything with 100% isopropyl to get everything squeaky clean - bottom plate, plastic sheet, top and bottom of the PCB.  Where the edges of the original foam were there was some adhesive - this came up easily with acetone.

Replacement Foam
The orignal foam all came off in one peice, but it was entirely too thin anymore.  The middle three rows of barrels moved easily.  First I tried 2mm craft foam across the entire plate - found that it wasn't thick enough for the home row.  Tried 3mm craft foam across the entire plate - found it was too thick for the top and bottom rows. I then cut the home row strip out of both pieces, and tried the 2mm foam on the top/bottom with the 3mm foam on the home row. This ended up sort of cantilevering one edge of the barrels on the home row and they wiggled pretty good.

I went back to the store and picked up one foot of automotive headliner foam, which came on a roll 54" wide - and is about 1/4" or 3/16" thick and very soft. It was a pain to cut holes in compared to the craft foam (don't have a punch) - but it applied an even pressure on all of the barrels across the plate. I also found I much preferred the key feel with this softer foam compared to the much denser craft foam.

Screws
Since two of my original screws were cross threaded, I was worried I would need to drill out and tap in new threads of a larger size.  But - inspecting the threads in the holes - they weren't actually that bad.  I used the screws that had good threads on them, and very carefully used them to chase the original threads in those two holes.  It worked, but those screws picked up a lot of extra material from doing so.  I didn't have any M4x.07 nuts to drive these screws through to remove this material, so I just ordered some new screws - phillips driven instead of hex driven.  Only had one problem with the new screws - the heads and split lock washers were the correct 7mm diameter, but they came with 9mm washers which wouldn't fit in the recesses of the case.  Thankfully a dremel with a cut off wheel, and a pair of needlenose pliers allowed 'easy' removal of the 9mm washers.

Powder Coat
This was a pain.  I emailed some powder coat shops near my home.  No response.  Called these shops near my home - and they would only say no.  Finally left work early one day and drove to more shops nearby.  Went to the first one - no.  Drove the 2nd - nope.  Went to a third - they immediately asked to look at the parts, as soon as they saw what they actually were - they said yes.  Told them about my experience with the other shops, they were suprised the other places said no.  Proceeded to explain that though they were a 75K sqft facility now, they started out with small jobs like mine.  Took less than 5 minutes to discuss options, pick colors, write up the paperwork and get a date for when I could pick up (dropped off on a Monday - picked up that Friday).  I wanted to get the case in a textured biege color and the barrel frame in black - but this would have resulted in two minimum charges due to the two colors, plus more for the texture; so ended up getting all three parts done in the same color with no texture.  They took care of the sandblasting and masking the screw holes - and they did a great job.

Keys
I had debated using the original keys versus ordering new ones from Unicomp.  In the end to get the near ANSI layout I wanted, was easier to put all new keys on it.  They even have the front function number row.

Reassembly
As Fohat always says - it helps to have plenty of clamps for this.  When I was re-assembling with the craft foam, this was especially true.  I think I used 8 spring clamps on the edges of the assembly, and then I just used wood blocks and hammer to tap the barrel frame and bottom plate together.  Did not want to buy a bar clamp just for this // hammer worked well enough.

Controller
De-soldering of the original controller was pain free - using a solder sucker made this go quickly.  Had to wait a few days for shipping for the new controller from xwhatsit to come in.  Soldering in the new controller was super easy - just had to spend a few minutes lining up all the wires.  I think I am lucky I started with a Rev2 board here - the larger holes for the ribbon wires made it a breeze.  Had to fab up a small metal spacer as shown in the pics above for grounding so that the expansion header cleared the nearby barrel frame tab.  xwhatit's app the program the controller is very easy to use - the only item I had any question on was the timing to use for the buzzer (which I am using 20ms/40ms).  I find that I keep it turned all the way down though.

USB
I used two cables to extend USB from the controller out.  First was a 9" micro USB 90 degree 'down' cable, the 2nd was a standard beige 6' USB A  to A cable.  Cut one end off each, verified the wire color to pinout on each (they each used the standard red/black/green/white) and soldered them together, each also has heatshrink.  I did have to shave down the 90 degree end of the micro USB cable a bit - so it would clear the barrel frame tab and so that it had no trouble making that 180 degree turn from the side of the controller towards the case exit.  I also reused the original cables tin mounting strap - complete with the star washer and bonding the USB cables sheild to it.

Usage
I only brought this board in to my office today, to replace my Unicomp Model M as my daily driver.  I find that it will take me a couple days to get used to it.  The biggest things I have noticed so far is when moving my right had to the 6 pack, arrows or numpad - is the case on the 4704 has bars in between the blocks, where the Model M just had empty space. I find myself feeling the bars and having to take an extra second to locate.  The other change is the 10 pack on the right side; where I am used to the Model M where the main keys used to be all the way on the left side of the board, now that 10 pack is on the left.

Overall - I prefer the key feel on this Model F over my Model M.  Hard to explain really - it is both more solid, and yet lighter in touch at the same time.

Now we just need more of these great boards brought back to life!
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 22:32:55 »
Thanks for the comments. I’m sure they’ll be helpful when I try to get mine up and running. I’ve signed up for the SF Techshop class on sandblasting and powdercoating in 2 weeks, so I’m hoping I can do that myself, in some nice blue color. Then I’m going to try to laser etch this logo back down to the metal color:

(So it’ll be silver on blue instead of blue on white, but you get the idea.)

Offline Touch_It

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 11 November 2014, 22:37:27 »
Very nice write-up.  Really enjoyed it.  Will definitely be using this as reference when doing mine (hopefully soonish). I'm hoping though at some point I can fit mine with a solenoid as I think that would be bad ass. 

P.S I love the powder coat job on it. Keep coming back to look at it.


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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 12 November 2014, 08:20:11 »
Very nice write-up.  Really enjoyed it.  Will definitely be using this as reference when doing mine (hopefully soonish). I'm hoping though at some point I can fit mine with a solenoid as I think that would be bad ass. 

P.S I love the powder coat job on it. Keep coming back to look at it.


I've got a solenoid from a 3178 - debated getting a driver for it from xwhatsit and using it instead of the buzzer.  Now that I have had some time to really use the board, with the buzzer and without - I actually find the buzzer super distracting.  The clicks from the keys I'm used to and love - but that additional beep just throws off my rhythm.

Thanks for the comments. I’m sure they’ll be helpful when I try to get mine up and running. I’ve signed up for the SF Techshop class on sandblasting and powdercoating in 2 weeks, so I’m hoping I can do that myself, in some nice blue color. Then I’m going to try to laser etch this logo back down to the metal color:
Show Image

(So it’ll be silver on blue instead of blue on white, but you get the idea.)



That would actually be very cool!  Maybe after etching, mask off that area in the square shape and clear coat it to protect the metal.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 12 November 2014, 08:42:00 »
I just realized I left out one important detail.  During my many re-assemblies of the plates and barrels while testing the different foams for key feel - I found it was important that I pay attention to the 'angle' of the spring from the pivot plate / flippy / hammer at rest.

Not all of the springs were 'straight', for lack of a better term.  Some pointed to the left or right, others pointed 'down'.  Most all had about the same angle though (which when placed in a barrel, the spring was well centered at the top of the barrel).  The ones that were not straight, would be touching or very near the left/right/bottom sides of the barrel.

For the few that had springs that were not straight - those keys ended up being the ones that had trouble - such as not buckling or the spring binding against the stem.  Attempts to push on the stem with the board in angled in various positions to get the spring to seat properly only worked maybe half the time.  Attempts to re-seat the spring on the plate, by indexing the rotation differently so the angle looked more correct - also resulted in troubles.  The spring seemed used to buckling only in a single direction, so by twisting the spring, it only wanted to buckle incorrectly.

In the end before I performed the final assembly, I lined up all the springs/hammers on a grid pattern on the table, and I eyeballed them all in relation to each other.  The ones that were not straight, I pulled from the pool of ones to use on the board (which I think was only like 6).  The remaining ones were all nice and straight - and I had no issues with any of the keys that time.
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Offline koalapear

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 20 November 2014, 21:22:42 »
I'm curious how much the powder coating cost, if you don't mind me asking. I might be getting one of these beauties and have no idea what powder coating it is going to run me.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 20 November 2014, 22:42:30 »
Probably more than you think - sent PM.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 18 February 2015, 15:55:48 »
Replaced the buzzer in my F107 today with a solenoid driver and solenoid from an IBM 3178.  Fits perfectly in the case with a piece of double sided tape - and it sounds amazing.  Will see about making a video.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 18 February 2015, 16:26:00 »
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Just another 4704 107 thread
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 14 April 2015, 12:20:51 »
Opened her up today to clean out dust / hair / board chow.  Took the opportunity to grab some pics of the solenoid and the slightly updated keys.





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