DONE!

[rootwyrm]

Edit 2: Also opened a Paypal dispute for Item Significantly Not as Described so there's a paper trail. I would recommend folks who paid through Paypal do so upon receiving an incorrect package, and simply be polite about it. If you got somebody else's package, "whoops, I got somebody else's package. Can you please help locate mine?" Make sure you note whose package you got if there's a name inside. If you end up needing to do a chargeback with any transaction, not opening the dispute immediately can complicate things or even make it impossible. Just be polite about it and give him a chance to respond before escalating to Paypal.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.  That's the same conclusion that I came to after a bit, and that was the only way I was able to get him to respond.  PM's didn't work.  However, the response I got on mine when I asked that very question was that he didn't know who had it.  Which does make sense, but it's disheartening.

Presuming everyone is telling him what they got that's incorrect, that should not be true for very long, which is actually a net plus in terms of a dispute. It shows both seller and buyer acting in good faith to resolve the issues. However, this also doesn't factor in any unethical folks who just decide they're going to keep someone else's stuff. I'm getting worried there's going to be a lot of that.

[Skysophrenic]

Packages coming in, stuff being opened, lots of things happening.

Keep posting your thoughts and packages, pictures are always great. I will be updating sheet in a bit.

In response to why I am gathering a sheet, it is because it will make it easier as a point of reference to find out where stuff is. It'll also be easier to seek out who's items belong to whom once they show up. Finally, it's for the the possibility of presenting overwhelming evidence to the appropriate channels for resolution, as the spreadsheet that keeps track of all the items is clearly far more transparent than beserkfan.

We found some boards, lets hope there are many more out there. As usual, please reach out to other forums and direct them here!

[chuckdee]

Edit 2: Also opened a Paypal dispute for Item Significantly Not as Described so there's a paper trail. I would recommend folks who paid through Paypal do so upon receiving an incorrect package, and simply be polite about it. If you got somebody else's package, "whoops, I got somebody else's package. Can you please help locate mine?" Make sure you note whose package you got if there's a name inside. If you end up needing to do a chargeback with any transaction, not opening the dispute immediately can complicate things or even make it impossible. Just be polite about it and give him a chance to respond before escalating to Paypal.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.  That's the same conclusion that I came to after a bit, and that was the only way I was able to get him to respond.  PM's didn't work.  However, the response I got on mine when I asked that very question was that he didn't know who had it.  Which does make sense, but it's disheartening.

So you have had contact with Berserk since this went bad?  It seems like he isn't completely rogue then?

After I received no responses from him, I opened a dispute, but I haven't escalated it.  That's been the only thing that got him to respond, because he has to, basically.  I have until 5/31 to escalate to paypal.

Edit 2: Also opened a Paypal dispute for Item Significantly Not as Described so there's a paper trail. I would recommend folks who paid through Paypal do so upon receiving an incorrect package, and simply be polite about it. If you got somebody else's package, "whoops, I got somebody else's package. Can you please help locate mine?" Make sure you note whose package you got if there's a name inside. If you end up needing to do a chargeback with any transaction, not opening the dispute immediately can complicate things or even make it impossible. Just be polite about it and give him a chance to respond before escalating to Paypal.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.  That's the same conclusion that I came to after a bit, and that was the only way I was able to get him to respond.  PM's didn't work.  However, the response I got on mine when I asked that very question was that he didn't know who had it.  Which does make sense, but it's disheartening.

Presuming everyone is telling him what they got that's incorrect, that should not be true for very long, which is actually a net plus in terms of a dispute. It shows both seller and buyer acting in good faith to resolve the issues. However, this also doesn't factor in any unethical folks who just decide they're going to keep someone else's stuff. I'm getting worried there's going to be a lot of that.

That's my concern.  If you paid $70, and got $500 worth of stuff, I'd hope that people would report that.  But holding everyone to your standards is a recipe for disappointment.  I'm hoping that mind_funeral's recent example paves the way.  But I find that I can't count on that, especially with my own potential losses not being insignificant.

[Skysophrenic]

Edit 2: Also opened a Paypal dispute for Item Significantly Not as Described so there's a paper trail. I would recommend folks who paid through Paypal do so upon receiving an incorrect package, and simply be polite about it. If you got somebody else's package, "whoops, I got somebody else's package. Can you please help locate mine?" Make sure you note whose package you got if there's a name inside. If you end up needing to do a chargeback with any transaction, not opening the dispute immediately can complicate things or even make it impossible. Just be polite about it and give him a chance to respond before escalating to Paypal.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.  That's the same conclusion that I came to after a bit, and that was the only way I was able to get him to respond.  PM's didn't work.  However, the response I got on mine when I asked that very question was that he didn't know who had it.  Which does make sense, but it's disheartening.

Presuming everyone is telling him what they got that's incorrect, that should not be true for very long, which is actually a net plus in terms of a dispute. It shows both seller and buyer acting in good faith to resolve the issues. However, this also doesn't factor in any unethical folks who just decide they're going to keep someone else's stuff. I'm getting worried there's going to be a lot of that.

This is also a big part of why I want a public spreadsheet - dishonest folks will be dishonest, but hopefully with the majority willing to open the books on the table will encourage everyone else to do the same.

For the general: Anybody who is opening up a claim, be polite, be straightforward, and present screenshots of a confirmation pm from beserkfan, confirmation of any tracking, and confirmation of anything received. This will help show that you've gotten the wrong package/missing items, and should give you a huge advantage in filing a claim. Also - do not blast beserkfan via claims. Stay civil, and look for a resolution. Escalate only of you need to. Stay with the facts, and do not let emotions play a role in how you handle claims!

Good luck!

[meiosis]

Package arrived just now. Immediately knew it was wrong - it barely was big enough to hold one keyboard. Definitely NOT two full size keyboards. Claimed on customs that it was keyboard parts for hobbyist, value $50, weight 1kg. (It should have been nearly 5kg too.)

Open it up, and I have cast metal keycaps immediately jumping out. A set of rubber feet. A bunch of loose LEDs (came out of the SIP sockets in transit.) Aaaaaaand a KBT Pure with SIP mod, blue aluminum frame, and MX Whites. All the LEDs are here though, I counted.

According to the label inside, this is "DT Scarpia"s order. Well, it's at least PART of Scarpia's order according to the spreadsheet. So Scarpia, I have your KBT Pure. FWIW it was well packed, no damage aside from the loose LEDs. (Quick edit, none of the LEDs are damaged at all.) Can someone please page Scarpia to the thread?

Edit: PM'd Scarpia after realizing, yeah, it should have been "GH Scarpia" probably. Will be taking photos momentarily. Seriously though, very well packaged, so I can't imagine any shipping damage.

Here's the imgur gallery!

Edit 2: Also opened a Paypal dispute for Item Significantly Not as Described so there's a paper trail. I would recommend folks who paid through Paypal do so upon receiving an incorrect package, and simply be polite about it. If you got somebody else's package, "whoops, I got somebody else's package. Can you please help locate mine?" Make sure you note whose package you got if there's a name inside. If you end up needing to do a chargeback with any transaction, not opening the dispute immediately can complicate things or even make it impossible. Just be polite about it and give him a chance to respond before escalating to Paypal.

Well that sinks my stomach those cast metal caps are the ones I ordered (scarface)

Those even have the nibs and I know that he only had one set.. If there is you would want I wouldn't mind paying you in addition.


Just want this buy over it feels like Ivan all over again

[chuckdee]

The sucky thing is something I want to re-iterate.  It looks perfectly reasonable for Rootwyrm to deal with Meiosis on that point.  However, it does reduce your ability to make a claim to Paypal, or other payment services.  The extent of this varies for each service.  What each individual does is up to their own conscience.  But I did want to make that perfectly clear as a fact in determining course.  Also, let us endeavor not to try to make that decision for people by peer pressure nor the opinions of the masses.  Each decision is up to the individual that is putting their own rights on the line.

[Skysophrenic]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing

Updated, pm's sent out for a few people who have been adding stuff but are missing a couple of details.

Feel free to contribute yourselves on the last page.

Open up disputes if you guys can - with enough tickets open it might flag him within paypal so that they can open up an investigation.


Another casual observation - there seems to be a lot of "colour" themed filco's that were ordered... Silver, purple, blue, etc. Each of them for $100. Could just be coincidence though. Lets just see what happens.

[rootwyrm]

Package arrived just now. Immediately knew it was wrong - it barely was big enough to hold one keyboard. Definitely NOT two full size keyboards. Claimed on customs that it was keyboard parts for hobbyist, value $50, weight 1kg. (It should have been nearly 5kg too.)

Open it up, and I have cast metal keycaps immediately jumping out. A set of rubber feet. A bunch of loose LEDs (came out of the SIP sockets in transit.) Aaaaaaand a KBT Pure with SIP mod, blue aluminum frame, and MX Whites. All the LEDs are here though, I counted.

According to the label inside, this is "DT Scarpia"s order. Well, it's at least PART of Scarpia's order according to the spreadsheet. So Scarpia, I have your KBT Pure. FWIW it was well packed, no damage aside from the loose LEDs. (Quick edit, none of the LEDs are damaged at all.) Can someone please page Scarpia to the thread?

Edit: PM'd Scarpia after realizing, yeah, it should have been "GH Scarpia" probably. Will be taking photos momentarily. Seriously though, very well packaged, so I can't imagine any shipping damage.

Here's the imgur gallery!

Edit 2: Also opened a Paypal dispute for Item Significantly Not as Described so there's a paper trail. I would recommend folks who paid through Paypal do so upon receiving an incorrect package, and simply be polite about it. If you got somebody else's package, "whoops, I got somebody else's package. Can you please help locate mine?" Make sure you note whose package you got if there's a name inside. If you end up needing to do a chargeback with any transaction, not opening the dispute immediately can complicate things or even make it impossible. Just be polite about it and give him a chance to respond before escalating to Paypal.

Well that sinks my stomach those cast metal caps are the ones I ordered (scarface)

Those even have the nibs and I know that he only had one set.. If there is you would want I wouldn't mind paying you in addition.


Just want this buy over it feels like Ivan all over again

I just checked the bag, and sure enough. It says right on it (which I missed) "GH Meiosis" and it is in fact, his order. Packed in with Scarpia's order. Unfortunately, chuckdee is absolutely right - if you ship things on to others immediately, Paypal can screw up or outright deny your claim. They WANT to deny your claim because back charges can cost them BIG TIME. So here is what I am personally going to do, and you all can hold me to it:

Meiosis - I'm going to stash your caps safely here until I find out what Paypal wants done (or at least wants to hear.) If you need any photos for your own Paypal dispute, they're yours. I also PM'd you my email, my phone, and my address, and the reference for my own Paypal dispute so it can be cross-referenced. (But please do not call me at 3AM - work does that already!) Soon as it's cleared by Paypal, I'm going to UPS these direct to you and I'll take care of the shipping cost.
Pictures showing this is Meiosis' order are here: https://imgur.com/a/xcjgX - the contents on the label are the same as what is in it.

Scarpia I haven't heard back from yet - but this is only a small part of his order. No cable to be found in here, so it must be in another box entirely. I think the feet are to this board though, so at least there's that much. And thanks to all the images and inventories being deleted, I also could be wrong which board it is, too, and this is someone else's order entirely!

Believe me, I hate having to make anyone wait as much as I hate having to wait myself. But it's vitally important to preserve the evidence. If Paypal comes back to you and says "we want to see the label that says it's for someone else" and you can't show it, they can and will deny your claim. They have to have meticulous documentation to shoot down any chargebacks or any counter-claims by sellers. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row and either the correct items, your refund, or word from Paypal in writing, in the ticket, confirmed twice that they are OK with you sending an item on.

[shrubkeys]

To me, it's possible - but highly unlikely - that any fraud is going on here. I think (hope?) he's avoiding because he's stressed the hell out - both because of the actual screw-ups and because of the (justifiable) reception to them - and while that's not admirable behavior, it's relatable. We have a little time before our ability to file PayPal disputes expires. My vote is give it a few more days.

FWIW, tho...

ORDERED:

• Caps from Green Valley board (FREE)
• IBM/Cherry relegendables (FREE)
• Ergo Clear'd TG3 BL82 ($20)
• Ergo Clear'd JIS Minila Air, with extra caps and BT transmitter ($80)
• "Freebies" to offset increased shipping price from his decision to combine two 2kg packages into one 5kg ($26?)

RECEIVED:

• Tiny box (same tracking # as that listed on the PayPal transaction) with Green Valley keycaps

//edit: ...aaaaaaand rather than express remorse, he decided to double down. And seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how PayPal disputes work.

[Belfong]

Following this with some interest but wondering what would you all think he should react? Refund everyone? Ask for all of you to ship back to each other? Or is it easier to wait till the heat is off?

[kekman]

Following this with some interest but wondering what would you all think he should react? Refund everyone? Ask for all of you to ship back to each other? Or is it easier to wait till the heat is off?

it would have been preferable to get the right items shipped out in the first place, but since it's too late for that, probably dispute incorrect items, and if possible, ship our items back to the rightful owner if shipping costs are justifiable. for those who paid by moneygram, they can try claiming their money back but I have small hope that we will actually receive our money back, in which case we can only hope people are nice enough to return the items we all ordered to each other.

it's honestly not worth paying shipping twice if my items arrive on somebody elses doorstep. they're very cheap boards which I only ordered out of interest and they cost quite a bit to ship so if I'm unfortunate enough, somebody else can enjoy a model f xt and ibm green alps board at my cost.

[[Lewynlight]]

Following this with some interest but wondering what would you all think he should react? Refund everyone? Ask for all of you to ship back to each other? Or is it easier to wait till the heat is off?

ship back to each other, if we all were honest enough. welll, consider this as a test, as a community? 

Following this with some interest but wondering what would you all think he should react? Refund everyone? Ask for all of you to ship back to each other? Or is it easier to wait till the heat is off?

it would have been preferable to get the right items shipped out in the first place, but since it's too late for that, probably dispute incorrect items, and if possible, ship our items back to the rightful owner if shipping costs are justifiable. for those who paid by moneygram, they can try claiming their money back but I have small hope that we will actually receive our money back, in which case we can only hope people are nice enough to return the items we all ordered to each other.

it's honestly not worth paying shipping twice if my items arrive on somebody elses doorstep. they're very cheap boards which I only ordered out of interest and they cost quite a bit to ship so if I'm unfortunate enough, somebody else can enjoy a model f xt and ibm green alps board at my cost.

i agree with you. but if i were the one to receive your board i still want to send it to your place using cheapest option possible, maybe..


anyway, Skysophrenic, i sent you a PM.

[Venatorious]

Anyone who is concerned should probably check this out:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.0

[timerwin63]

Anyone who is concerned should probably check this out:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.0

What a joke. I get that not everything is super easy and this whole thing was a cluster****, but geez, own up and at least try to make things right. Here's to hoping I can at least get some of my money back.

[alh84001]

Well, this is getting more and more interesting. I have two boxes coming my way, and I will list what I ordered and what I got when they arrive. That is, unless I spot some of the items I ordered shipped to other people. So far, none of them have showed up, which is either a very good or a very bad sign.

Waiting for boxes to come can sometimes be exciting, but in a perverted way this has that added thrill of gambling added to it. We'll see how bitter of a taste it leaves in my mouth.

BTW, anyone in Europe already received "their" packages?

[need]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

[Venatorious]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

[[Lewynlight]]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

nope, not that simple. don't forget that he's in the process into moving to a new place.
i do have his old address, but i doubt by the time we get into his house, he's still there.

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

lol

[mind_funeral]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

[Skysophrenic]

I have (been) compiling(ed) a semi-thorough list of pm's of you confirming orders, payment details and comparing it to what was received by users. I have done it from a very bottoms up approach, with limited resources of knowing who even bought stuff from you.

You who stood at the top, the control center, the financial hub of your sales and logistics operation, should have been able to manage everything better. What you have essentially done is walk into the room, and announce "hey guys, I'm an important guy who works way too hard so you guys should all feel sorry for me, and not be angry that I screwed you all over."

There is a very big difference between a mistake, and negligence. This is the latter. Get off your high horse and admit that you've basically done whatever the hell you wanted with stuff because you had no respect for anybody else's transactions. You set a mutual agreement between buyer (you) and seller (us) and simply not carry through. It is a lack of responsibility in carrying out the sale, and a lack of accountability in following through.

The problem here isn't the sale. The problem here is your attitude and approach to taking responsibility.

Claim what you guys can, even though he's set aside a budget for refunds, the way he's carried **** out makes me think he will not follow through properly anymore. Once or twice is a mistake. Mutliple accounts upon multiple accounts is simply a trend of negligence or incompetence. Are we already know he's competitent since he's done sales before.

I've gotten many more pm's over the night. Will update sheet this afternoon. Keep pm's coming in with orders and received! Also if you comment on the spreadsheet (rightclick and comment) I will make adjustments as needed. As usual, submit proof of confirmation or your order from beserkfan, and keep all confirmation of payments, shipping, tracking, boxes and timestamp items you get in the mail.

If beserkfan wont try to coordinate his **** and fix things, at least I can try by proving a platform to see who should reach out to who to ship things to their buyers. As far as I can tell, almost all of my items have been doublesold or not found at the moment, so at $400 sunk, the least I can do is make sure $400 spent is to get as much as I can get other people in the thread.

Note: Do not ship other user's items back if you are making a claim. Only do so after paypal/whatever payment method has cleared you to do so. And make sure it is in writing - if you call paypal CS, have them summarise everything in an email after your call.

[alh84001]

I also forgot to mention that I got tracking numbers for both packages.

[gtxorb]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

You forgot he is moving...

[[Lewynlight]]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

me. 

[chuckdee]

Anyone who is concerned should probably check this out:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.0

What a joke. I get that not everything is super easy and this whole thing was a cluster****, but geez, own up and at least try to make things right. Here's to hoping I can at least get some of my money back.

How did you pay?

[chuckdee]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

me. 

I think, at least from what he told me, is that he had to upgrade some people for Paypal, and other reasons.  I don't think that by default the way that he shipped them had tracking.  So only those people he upgraded will get tracking.

[biocalves]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

me. 

When I was discussing buying from him he did give me an option for tracked and untracked shipping. I went for the untracked option as it was cheaper. Did he not discuss shipping options with some of you?

After reading OP's post in OT, I think it might be best to keep Sky's spreadsheet as up to date as possible and prepare to work it out between ourselves. If GB decides to rectify the issue that'd be great, but it's probably best to start prepping for the worst. There's nothing we can do about double sales, but if I am the one who ends up with the DSA grab bag for ex I'll just grab some keys I was looking for before shipping it off the next person. Not ideal, but at least we're all getting something out of it.

I went with the super cheap route so I don't have tracking, but will post what I get when I get it and provide proof of my order along with it then to keep things as clean as possible.

[mind_funeral]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

me. 

When I was discussing buying from him he did give me an option for tracked and untracked shipping. I went for the untracked option as it was cheaper. Did he not discuss shipping options with some of you?

Nope.  Just paid the $9.80 for Seamail.

[chuckdee]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

me. 

When I was discussing buying from him he did give me an option for tracked and untracked shipping. I went for the untracked option as it was cheaper. Did he not discuss shipping options with some of you?

Nope.  Just paid the $9.80 for Seamail.

Nope, just paid $8 for Seamail.  No discussion of tracking, so I was pleasantly surprised when my Paypal transaction had tracking.  The thing is, if he'd discussed with most, I think he wouldn't have had to take on the additional cost.  I thought $8 was low, but I just had caps, so didn't think about it.

[Moistgun]

.

looks like he did make a statement in a different thread.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.0

[[Lewynlight]]

Did anyone else NOT get any kind of tracking number?  I paid on April 20 and no tracking or confirmation of shipment.

me. 

When I was discussing buying from him he did give me an option for tracked and untracked shipping. I went for the untracked option as it was cheaper. Did he not discuss shipping options with some of you?

After reading OP's post in OT, I think it might be best to keep Sky's spreadsheet as up to date as possible and prepare to work it out between ourselves. If GB decides to rectify the issue that'd be great, but it's probably best to start prepping for the worst. There's nothing we can do about double sales, but if I am the one who ends up with the DSA grab bag for ex I'll just grab some keys I was looking for before shipping it off the next person. Not ideal, but at least we're all getting something out of it.

I went with the super cheap route so I don't have tracking, but will post what I get when I get it and provide proof of my order along with it then to keep things as clean as possible.

nope. maybe it's because i just told him to use the cheapest shipping possible.
maybe i'll pm him sometimes in the weekend asking about the tracking number.

[Karandach]

Hello all !

I'm one of the unfortunate people who have passed an order.
My order :
IBM model M13
IBM model F50
keycaps
for 195$

I have received :

I'm available to people who have ordered these keycaps.

Please if you have received my package (Or package for Karandach) please contact me! I would pay shipping.

Self-help is very important, we need to ship packages to the right people.

EDIT : PM sent
This is 195$ and not 295$

[Skysophrenic]

Hello all !

I'm one of the unfortunate people who have passed an order.
My order :
IBM model M13
IBM model F50
keycaps
for 295$

I have received :

Show Image

I'm available to people who have ordered these keycaps.

Please if you have received my package (Or package for Karandach) please contact me! I would pay shipping.

Self-help is very important, we need to ship packages to the right people.

I don't believe I have you in the spreadsheet, can I ask you to update in one the tabs (See edits/comments tab.) Or alternatively, pm me your some of your pm's with beserkfan (him confirming your order) and other details so that there is a record of things. I don't want to sound skeptical but I just want to prevent people from claiming more than they ordered.

Likewise, I will be taking all pm's and proof of items received and attaching links to the spreadsheet to have a transparent system of proof. I haven't done so yet, and so at the moment it is unfair that I currently hold the position of power in terms of information available. Once updated, I'll post again. Will be updating spreadsheet with more pm's that have been coming in.

ONCE AGAIN, DO NOT SHIP TO OTHER USERS JUST YET - make your claim with paypal/whoever it is you paid with. Some of us WILL be burned/screwed. But for those of you guys who can, make the claims. By all means, REACH OUT TO YOUR CORRESPONDING USER(s) so they know where the item is, but do not ship until the claims have been processed/given the go-ahead to ship by paypal/whoever it is.

[Karandach]

No problems, I have all the screenshots and the necessary pictures.

Just register on GH, I am present on DT and on the French forums.

I am well aware that we must send nothing. I just wanted to share my good will for cooperation between members of the comunity.

[need]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

What's so surprising to you?
The best and straightest way to get things straight is to communicate face to face.

[chuckdee]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

What's so surprising to you?
The best and straightest way to get things straight is to communicate face to face.

Because you just don't do that.  You don't show up at someone's residence uninvited, no matter what else is going on.  Especially if something negative is going on.  People have died because the decision to do just that was raised.

And this quote "I think we need some fear to get him back straight," shows just how bad that idea is.

[need]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

nope, not that simple. don't forget that he's in the process into moving to a new place.
i do have his old address, but i doubt by the time we get into his house, he's still there.

MOD EDIT:  Do not make personal threats

[mind_funeral]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

What's so surprising to you?
The best and straightest way to get things straight is to communicate face to face.

Because you just don't do that.  You don't show up at someone's residence uninvited, no matter what else is going on.  Especially if something negative is going on.  People have died because the decision to do just that was raised.

And this quote "I think we need some fear to get him back straight," shows just how bad that idea is.

Oh, so naive.  Theft is so much more admiral than showing up at someone's door...

[Waateva]

...go up front and see if he's still a man.

This is something you hear about on the news that someone says before they get their ass kicked or get shot.

[need]

Sorry, I don't mean that dramatic.

To this point he's still blaming everyone but himself, that's just mind bending to just even to think about.

[riotonthebay]

Sorry, I don't mean that dramatic.

To this point he's still blaming everyone but himself, that's just mind bending to just even to think about.

Advocating showing up at the guy's house to use "fear to get him back straight" and to "see if he's still a man" only gives him more excuses not to right the wrongs. Please take that elsewhere so that the folks in this thread trying to come to a constructive conclusion can get on with it.

[need]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

What's so surprising to you?
The best and straightest way to get things straight is to communicate face to face.

Because you just don't do that.  You don't show up at someone's residence uninvited, no matter what else is going on.  Especially if something negative is going on.  People have died because the decision to do just that was raised.

And this quote "I think we need some fear to get him back straight," shows just how bad that idea is.

Oh, so naive.  Theft is so much more admiral than showing up at someone's door...

That's not naive, it's just the most basic and honest communication method. Nothing to cover.

What's more affections than having a real conversation? He's hiding / dodging behind the computer now, which is making the problem worst.

[chuckdee]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

Dude wtf 

What's so surprising to you?
The best and straightest way to get things straight is to communicate face to face.

Because you just don't do that.  You don't show up at someone's residence uninvited, no matter what else is going on.  Especially if something negative is going on.  People have died because the decision to do just that was raised.

And this quote "I think we need some fear to get him back straight," shows just how bad that idea is.

Oh, so naive.  Theft is so much more admiral than showing up at someone's door...

Not saying that theft is more admirable, and I think the response that I'll just show up is the more naive approach.  I can tell you if someone I didn't know showed up at my domicile (and no matter how well you think you know someone from communicating on an internet forum, you really don't know them), they'd either, depending on the relative aggressiveness and my mood at the time end up facing the police if they won't leave, facing my dog if they get in the face persistent, or facing a weapon, improvised, muscle bound, or real.  And it also is based on where you are as to whether or not you have a leg to stand on once that happens.  Once they ask you to leave and you don't, you're trespassing.  And there's legal ramifications why they just don't want to have conversations like that. 

No matter what the other side does, escalating is a good way for waateva's statement to become truth, i.e.

...go up front and see if he's still a man.

This is something you hear about on the news that someone says before they get their ass kicked or get shot.

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/security/10-things-to-do-when-a-stranger-knocks-on-your-door/

With home invasions being a thing, and people not necessarily reacting how you think they should, I would think about that.  But in the end, that's everyone's choice to make- for better or worse.  And deal with the possible consequences.

Sorry, I don't mean that dramatic.

To this point he's still blaming everyone but himself, that's just mind bending to just even to think about.

Advocating showing up at the guy's house to use "fear to get him back straight" and to "see if he's still a man" only gives him more excuses not to right the wrongs. Please take that elsewhere so that the folks in this thread trying to come to a constructive conclusion can get on with it.

And I'll end by quoting that for truth!

[need]

Sorry, I don't mean that dramatic.

To this point he's still blaming everyone but himself, that's just mind bending to just even to think about.

Advocating showing up at the guy's house to use "fear to get him back straight" and to "see if he's still a man" only gives him more excuses not to right the wrongs. Please take that elsewhere so that the folks in this thread trying to come to a constructive conclusion can get on with it.

It's harder to make excuses in real life situations than being on here.

[chuckdee]

Sorry, I don't mean that dramatic.

To this point he's still blaming everyone but himself, that's just mind bending to just even to think about.

Advocating showing up at the guy's house to use "fear to get him back straight" and to "see if he's still a man" only gives him more excuses not to right the wrongs. Please take that elsewhere so that the folks in this thread trying to come to a constructive conclusion can get on with it.

It's harder to make excuses in real life situations than being on here.

Back someone in the corner, and I don't know if you can help but share blame for the consequences.  In person, physical persons are at risk of being one of those consequences.  Money isn't worth that to me.

[Skysophrenic]

Please do not actually go and knock on some one's door... There are appropriate, legal and quite frankly less barbaric ways of solving problems. All sorts of other issues occur, many of which could affect innocent people such as family or neighbors. Do not do that.

Stay patient and I promise things will work out sooner or later. I'm quite frankly disgusted by the suggestion to begin with. Be the better person. Your money isn't worth trading for legal issues/freedoms - this applies to everything really.

[hashbaz]

Hi folks. In this community we trust each other with money and time and a decent amount of personal information. Threatening to show up at people's doors is how you wreck that trust. Let's just not even go there.

I'm not up to speed on the specifics of this situation, but regardless, hassling someone in real life is a bad idea. Don't do it and don't advocate for it.

[demik]

Is it right that someone can casually knock on his door?
I think we need some fear to get him back straight.

maybe you should go?

[fohat.digs]

I'm not up to speed on the specifics of this situation,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

[shrubkeys]

I'm not up to speed on the specifics of this situation

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cluster****

[phosphoric]

I'm not up to speed on the specifics of this situation

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cluster****

I'm laughing