NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[swornxin]

So if I was going to build a lube station out of plastic, this is how I would do it. 

I would do this switch layer in 0.063" (1.6mm) plastic using the standard Alps + MX switch cutout so I could open the switches in the lube station (this is a required feature of any lube station IMO).

It would look like this.  I did a layout with 90 switches since I don't care about anything over a TKL in size:

Show Image

Now the main problem with this is that it will not be strong enough to support force if you have to insert LEDs into sip sockets and such.  To add support I would add the following layer under it.

This would be a supporting layer using 0.25" (6.35mm) plastic with a square cutout which has been expanded to 16x16 so it does not interfere with the clipping into the plate layer.

Show Image

In my drawings I have actually created the holes at 2.5mm with the intent to tap the holes and then just screw the two pieces together with M3 screws.

Looking at the materials that BBS offers, I think one of the following would be worth considering for this application.
- Acetal Plastic, Black (0.063" + 0.25")
- PETG Plastic, Clear (0.063" + 0.25")

I would have to check with BBS to see which they would recommend for this.

Does this all make sense?

Makes perfect sense!  I'm going to do a bit of research tomorrow at work, and hopefully I'll come back here to post about what I've decided to do!  Appreciate the help!

[swill]

So if I was going to build a lube station out of plastic, this is how I would do it. 

I would do this switch layer in 0.063" (1.6mm) plastic using the standard Alps + MX switch cutout so I could open the switches in the lube station (this is a required feature of any lube station IMO).

It would look like this.  I did a layout with 90 switches since I don't care about anything over a TKL in size:

Show Image

Now the main problem with this is that it will not be strong enough to support force if you have to insert LEDs into sip sockets and such.  To add support I would add the following layer under it.

This would be a supporting layer using 0.25" (6.35mm) plastic with a square cutout which has been expanded to 16x16 so it does not interfere with the clipping into the plate layer.

Show Image

In my drawings I have actually created the holes at 2.5mm with the intent to tap the holes and then just screw the two pieces together with M3 screws.

Looking at the materials that BBS offers, I think one of the following would be worth considering for this application.
- Acetal Plastic, Black (0.063" + 0.25")
- PETG Plastic, Clear (0.063" + 0.25")

I would have to check with BBS to see which they would recommend for this.

Does this all make sense?

Makes perfect sense!  I'm going to do a bit of research tomorrow at work, and hopefully I'll come back here to post about what I've decided to do!  Appreciate the help!

No worries. It is still a lot of cutting, so it may not be cheap.  It may actually be cheaper to get the top plate done in steel and doing just a simple .25" ring for the bottom in an inexpensive material.  We will have to check with BBS.

[swornxin]

So if I was going to build a lube station out of plastic, this is how I would do it. 

I would do this switch layer in 0.063" (1.6mm) plastic using the standard Alps + MX switch cutout so I could open the switches in the lube station (this is a required feature of any lube station IMO).

It would look like this.  I did a layout with 90 switches since I don't care about anything over a TKL in size:

Show Image

Now the main problem with this is that it will not be strong enough to support force if you have to insert LEDs into sip sockets and such.  To add support I would add the following layer under it.

This would be a supporting layer using 0.25" (6.35mm) plastic with a square cutout which has been expanded to 16x16 so it does not interfere with the clipping into the plate layer.

Show Image

In my drawings I have actually created the holes at 2.5mm with the intent to tap the holes and then just screw the two pieces together with M3 screws.

Looking at the materials that BBS offers, I think one of the following would be worth considering for this application.
- Acetal Plastic, Black (0.063" + 0.25")
- PETG Plastic, Clear (0.063" + 0.25")

I would have to check with BBS to see which they would recommend for this.

Does this all make sense?

Makes perfect sense!  I'm going to do a bit of research tomorrow at work, and hopefully I'll come back here to post about what I've decided to do!  Appreciate the help!

No worries. It is still a lot of cutting, so it may not be cheap.  It may actually be cheaper to get the top plate done in steel and doing just a simple .25" ring for the bottom in an inexpensive material.  We will have to check with BBS.

I could also just figure out how to make decent tools to open the switches, which would essentially solve the biggest of my problems.   )

[swill]

So if I was going to build a lube station out of plastic, this is how I would do it. 

I would do this switch layer in 0.063" (1.6mm) plastic using the standard Alps + MX switch cutout so I could open the switches in the lube station (this is a required feature of any lube station IMO).

It would look like this.  I did a layout with 90 switches since I don't care about anything over a TKL in size:

Show Image

Now the main problem with this is that it will not be strong enough to support force if you have to insert LEDs into sip sockets and such.  To add support I would add the following layer under it.

This would be a supporting layer using 0.25" (6.35mm) plastic with a square cutout which has been expanded to 16x16 so it does not interfere with the clipping into the plate layer.

Show Image

In my drawings I have actually created the holes at 2.5mm with the intent to tap the holes and then just screw the two pieces together with M3 screws.

Looking at the materials that BBS offers, I think one of the following would be worth considering for this application.
- Acetal Plastic, Black (0.063" + 0.25")
- PETG Plastic, Clear (0.063" + 0.25")

I would have to check with BBS to see which they would recommend for this.

Does this all make sense?

Makes perfect sense!  I'm going to do a bit of research tomorrow at work, and hopefully I'll come back here to post about what I've decided to do!  Appreciate the help!

No worries. It is still a lot of cutting, so it may not be cheap.  It may actually be cheaper to get the top plate done in steel and doing just a simple .25" ring for the bottom in an inexpensive material.  We will have to check with BBS.

I could also just figure out how to make decent tools to open the switches, which would essentially solve the biggest of my problems.   )

Not really. It really helps to have a station. It is so much faster to do each step on 100 switches than it is to do the complete process on 100 switches sequentially. You put your tools down less and you can get into a rhythm if you are using a station. Trust me. This is mind numbing work, you will want every advantage you can get.

[phishy]

Un-related but I don't want to make a thread for this and you guys have been so helpful.  For my 66 key build is it worth it to spend the few extra bucks for teensy 3.1 over the teensy 2.0?

[Dihedral]

Un-related but I don't want to make a thread for this and you guys have been so helpful.  For my 66 key build is it worth it to spend the few extra bucks for teensy 3.1 over the teensy 2.0?

No. The only real advantage is extra pins afaik.

[swill]

Un-related but I don't want to make a thread for this and you guys have been so helpful.  For my 66 key build is it worth it to spend the few extra bucks for teensy 3.1 over the teensy 2.0?

No I don't think so.  I think people prefer the Teensy2 whenever possible.  I am not sure of all the details, but I think there is something to do with flashing and such.  The Teensy2 is tried and true in this community.  It is by far the most recommended controller, so I would probably stick with it.

[jdcarpe]

Un-related but I don't want to make a thread for this and you guys have been so helpful.  For my 66 key build is it worth it to spend the few extra bucks for teensy 3.1 over the teensy 2.0?

No I don't think so.  I think people prefer the Teensy2 whenever possible.  I am not sure of all the details, but I think there is something to do with flashing and such.  The Teensy2 is tried and true in this community.  It is by far the most recommended controller, so I would probably stick with it.

Firmware. With Teensy 2.0, you can use Soarer's, TMK, Easy AVR, etc... With Teensy 3.1, you can only use Kiibohd, AFAIK.

I find it much easier to open when the switches are inside a plate

??

I find it easiest to open the switches when loose. You just pop the 4 little tabs to open them.

Most switch lubing stations have oversized holes, so that the switches don't clip in at all. They just sit loosely in the hole.

[swornxin]

I find it much easier to open when the switches are inside a plate

??

I find it easiest to open the switches when loose. You just pop the 4 little tabs to open them.

Most switch lubing stations have oversized holes, so that the switches don't clip in at all. They just sit loosely in the hole.
[/quote]
I see.  I am completely new to most of this.  The only modding I have done so far is to a Phantom that was already assembled.  I swapped the springs out, and taking the switches apart on it was much easier than holding a switch in my hands.

[phishy]

Awesome thanks guys.  Just ordered up everything else I need to finish my board.  Gotta go find a soldering iron and decide on how i want to finish this bare aluminum plate now.

[Melvang]

Awesome thanks guys.  Just ordered up everything else I need to finish my board.  Gotta go find a soldering iron and decide on how i want to finish this bare aluminum plate now.

Brushed with some scotch brite or sand paper gets my vote.

[phishy]

Awesome thanks guys.  Just ordered up everything else I need to finish my board.  Gotta go find a soldering iron and decide on how i want to finish this bare aluminum plate now.

Brushed with some scotch brite or sand paper gets my vote.

If i go that route (i've considered it) I'm definitely going to have to seal it afterwards.

[Melvang]

Awesome thanks guys.  Just ordered up everything else I need to finish my board.  Gotta go find a soldering iron and decide on how i want to finish this bare aluminum plate now.

Brushed with some scotch brite or sand paper gets my vote.

If i go that route (i've considered it) I'm definitely going to have to seal it afterwards.

Shouldn't have to.

[jdcarpe]

So I took some measurements with my new calipers of Alps switch holes. The holes in the stock Alps plate I have measure on average 15.5 x 12.8 mm.

The custom plate I have with combo holes measures 15.6 x 12.0 mm for the Alps hole. So there must be a pretty wide tolerance for Alps switches!


A loose switch measured 12.68 x 15.35 mm at the mount point. But the holes in the custom plate don't attach all around the switch of course. Only on the corners.

[swill]

So I took some measurements with my new calipers of Alps switch holes. The holes in the stock Alps plate I have measure on average 15.5 x 12.8 mm.

The custom plate I have with combo holes measures 15.6 x 12.0 mm for the Alps hole. So there must be a pretty wide tolerance for Alps switches!


A loose switch measured 12.68 x 15.35 mm at the mount point. But the holes in the custom plate don't attach all around the switch of course. Only on the corners.

Hmmm. OK, that's confusing. Not sure what to do with that now. If you squeeze the sides of the alps switch, can you stop the switch from returning once depressed?

[bueller]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

[heedpantsnow]

What thickness Alu or CF is appropriate to get?

[bueller]

What thickness Alu or CF is appropriate to get?

Most of the plates I've got have 1.5mm plate thickness.

[phishy]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

[bueller]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

[phishy]

What thickness Alu or CF is appropriate to get?

The ideal thickness would be 1.5 mm or .06"....but i can confirm that .063" aluminum works as it's at the larger end of plate mounted cherry switches tolerance and makes for a nice tight secure fit.

[phishy]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

That one might actually work well.  I know the second one isn't the best option because those little corners become rounded due to kerf and the switch has a little side to side movement, but it looks like the third cutout as long as the middle of the sides comes out perfect even if the corners for the indents are a bit rounded it will hold the switch perfectly.

[bueller]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

That one might actually work well.  I know the second one isn't the best option because those little corners become rounded due to kerf and the switch has a little side to side movement, but it looks like the third cutout as long as the middle of the sides comes out perfect even if the corners for the indents are a bit rounded it will hold the switch perfectly.

Cool, cheers for the info! These will be used with a PCB so hopefully that should remove any play in the switches that are experienced when hand-wiring.

[phishy]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

That one might actually work well.  I know the second one isn't the best option because those little corners become rounded due to kerf and the switch has a little side to side movement, but it looks like the third cutout as long as the middle of the sides comes out perfect even if the corners for the indents are a bit rounded it will hold the switch perfectly.

Cool, cheers for the info! These will be used with a PCB so hopefully that should remove any play in the switches that are experienced when hand-wiring.

Alright cool.  Which layout did you end up deciding to go with for the numpad?

[bueller]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

That one might actually work well.  I know the second one isn't the best option because those little corners become rounded due to kerf and the switch has a little side to side movement, but it looks like the third cutout as long as the middle of the sides comes out perfect even if the corners for the indents are a bit rounded it will hold the switch perfectly.

Cool, cheers for the info! These will be used with a PCB so hopefully that should remove any play in the switches that are experienced when hand-wiring.

Alright cool.  Which layout did you end up deciding to go with for the numpad?

Actually got an interest check going if you want to check out the finer details

[heedpantsnow]

Thanks for the input on plate thickness. I'm going to order some CF ones soon.

[swill]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

The second one also let's you open the switches and is cheaper to produce. If you are hand wiring then you can get the first cutout and just unclip the switches if you want to open them.

[swill]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

That one might actually work well.  I know the second one isn't the best option because those little corners become rounded due to kerf and the switch has a little side to side movement, but it looks like the third cutout as long as the middle of the sides comes out perfect even if the corners for the indents are a bit rounded it will hold the switch perfectly.

BBS is working on solving the rounded corners of those nubs, so that should be a solved problem.

[swill]

Going to do a quote for a small GHPad 5x4 plate GB - should I be using standard waterjet machining or the low-taper option?

Low-taper is for thicker materials...dont need to use it for a plate.  Also, which cut-out style are you using?  If you're planning on just using cherry switches I suggest the first cutout style.

Ideally I really want to use the 3rd one so people can open up the switches after soldering.

That one might actually work well.  I know the second one isn't the best option because those little corners become rounded due to kerf and the switch has a little side to side movement, but it looks like the third cutout as long as the middle of the sides comes out perfect even if the corners for the indents are a bit rounded it will hold the switch perfectly.

Cool, cheers for the info! These will be used with a PCB so hopefully that should remove any play in the switches that are experienced when hand-wiring.

I would use the second one then. It will be cheaper to produce.

[Dihedral]

Sorry to bother you swill, but has the cutout been updated yet?

[swill]

Sorry to bother you swill, but has the cutout been updated yet?

I have not changed the drawing yet. I am confused how to change it based on JDs measurements.

[jdcarpe]

Sorry to bother you swill, but has the cutout been updated yet?

I have not changed the drawing yet. I am confused how to change it based on JDs measurements.

I tried several different Alps switches, an XM clone, an unnamed clone, and a Matias, in both of the cutouts that I measured. I had no fitment issues with either of them. I am not sure why the holes cut with your drawing did not work...they should work fine.

[Dihedral]

Sorry to bother you swill, but has the cutout been updated yet?

I have not changed the drawing yet. I am confused how to change it based on JDs measurements.

I tried several different Alps switches, an XM clone, an unnamed clone, and a Matias, in both of the cutouts that I measured. I had no fitment issues with either of them. I am not sure why the holes cut with your drawing did not work...they should work fine.

Blame it on the 3D printing?

[swill]

Sorry to bother you swill, but has the cutout been updated yet?

I have not changed the drawing yet. I am confused how to change it based on JDs measurements.

I tried several different Alps switches, an XM clone, an unnamed clone, and a Matias, in both of the cutouts that I measured. I had no fitment issues with either of them. I am not sure why the holes cut with your drawing did not work...they should work fine.

Blame it on the 3D printing?

BBS had the same problem though which is why I am confused. He ordered alps switches from MK to validate their fit.

[StinkyTheDonut]

I got a metal fab I know to ask their laser and plastic partners for quotes for my 108 costar stab case.
They came back with a preliminary guesstimate of some hundreds of CAD for 10 plates...
Sure it's almost a decent deal per plate at such a small volume, but it's 9 too many that I can't afford.
They are expecting the same numbers even if I went for a plastic plate, and they haven't even gotten a quote for other layers. T_T
This going way beyond wallet hack at the speed of light for me...
I can't even start a IC/GB with my post count lol

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

[neverused]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

[StinkyTheDonut]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

[BigBlueSaw]

What price point are you trying to hit?

[DrHubblePhD]

Just wanted to share that I recently used the tool to create a plate for an upcoming super secret project. It worked great and I was able to download as a .dfx and convert it to an auto desk inventor sketch which I could use to modify the borders. If anyone is trying to get this to work with inventor let me know and I would be happy to help!

[swill]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

For some prototypes I was planning to do some stuff with a coping saw.  Once you get fancy machines involved the price is bound to go up.  Check with BBS directly.  They may be able to point you towards a material and process that can bring down costs for prototyping.

[swill]

Just wanted to share that I recently used the tool to create a plate for an upcoming super secret project. It worked great and I was able to download as a .dfx and convert it to an auto desk inventor sketch which I could use to modify the borders. If anyone is trying to get this to work with inventor let me know and I would be happy to help!

Awesome.  Glad it worked well.  Thanks for letting us know that it worked with auto desk inventor. 

[cmadrid]

We should sticky this

[swill]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

[Dihedral]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

PM a mod?

[jdcarpe]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

PM a mod?

I'm actually cleaning up all those stickies. But you made the list!

Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users!

[Dihedral]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

PM a mod?

I'm actually cleaning up all those stickies. But you made the list!

Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users!

Cool List - will be very useful to many in the future I'm sure.

[swill]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

PM a mod?

I'm actually cleaning up all those stickies. But you made the list!

Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users!

Nice work dude.

[Dihedral]

Now it's been added to that list, it might be a good idea to clean up the OP

[swill]

Now it's been added to that list, it might be a good idea to clean up the OP

Yes. I will work on that tonight.

[jdcarpe]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

PM a mod?

I'm actually cleaning up all those stickies. But you made the list!

Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users!

Nice work dude.

Thanks! I'm trying to reorganize some things where it makes sense.